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Kimi Raikkonen - Part IV


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#901 swerved

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 20:01

i wanted a noob for next year as a teammate. Thing I dislike in Grosjean is the conflict of interests the team boss will have. If Romain starts performing close to Kimi's level everybody will start saying how he has emerged as a team leader (remember monaco - canada period).


I dont think there's really been any evidence of a conflict of interest, I also think that Kimi performed at a level sufficiently high last season that it was a no brainer as to who the team should consider gave them their best chance of success, whether Romain can perform close to Kimi's level with any sort of consistency remains to be seen, I think he's lucky to keep his seat for next season personally.

As for what happens if did start to perform on a comparable level we'll have to wait and see, its not beyond the realms of possibility but i would say its doubtful, and in any case, if he or anyone in the team wants to proclaim Romain as team leader, i'm sure the results will show whether thats the correct title to apply, in any case, we know Kimi, he wont care what anybody calls anybody :).


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#902 Rikhart

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 20:05

There is a very clear conflict of interests when the team principal is also the manager of one of the drivers! And I agree with you, grosjean was lucky (or maybe check my first phrase for the reason) to have been retained another season...

#903 2ms

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 20:08

It's obvious Romain got the seat because his manager is the team principal. Only a fool'd think the favoritism will end there.

#904 swerved

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 20:15

It's obvious Romain got the seat because his manager is the team principal. Only a fool'd think the favoritism will end there.



We have a thread now for comparison & discussion of their relative merits so maybe that would be the better place to discuss them, for my part though, only a fool would talk with such certainty about something which, in all probability, they have so little real knowledge of.

#905 2ms

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 20:40

It clearly affects Kimi that he is teammates with the team principal's client who is receiving basically unprecedented leniency from his team. If you don't want to talk about Kimi's teammate, then don't yourself, but don't try to tell people in the Kimi thread that they are not allowed to mention his teammate.

#906 swerved

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 21:31

It clearly affects Kimi that he is teammates with the team principal's client who is receiving basically unprecedented leniency from his team. If you don't want to talk about Kimi's teammate, then don't yourself, but don't try to tell people in the Kimi thread that they are not allowed to mention his teammate.



Untwist your knickers and breathe deeply :lol:





#907 Zava

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 23:17

http://www.starsshop...top-beanie.html
am I right and is this site in finnish? if so, could someone who speaks it help me with ordering? :blush: PM me if you think you're the one I need.

edit: it seems my guess was wrong and it is in estonian. is there someone who could help me? in return, I can offer some praising in my signature. :D

Edited by Zava, 18 December 2012 - 01:07.


#908 bbobeckyj

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 14:35

http://www.starsshop...top-beanie.html
am I right and is this site in finnish? if so, could someone who speaks it help me with ordering? :blush: PM me if you think you're the one I need.

edit: it seems my guess was wrong and it is in estonian. is there someone who could help me? in return, I can offer some praising in my signature. :D

With Google Translate:
"This is a demo store. Completed orders are not considered nor respected."

#909 nada12

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:39

Posted Image

:lol:

#910 yonzzu

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 06:48

Kimi made quite a lot of money with the win and points he gathered. According to our very trustworthy Ilta-Sanomat Kimi earned one million dollars for the win in Abu Dhabi and 50 000 dollars for every point during the season.

For 207 points the bonus money is 10,35 million dollars and with the victory 11,35 millions in total. The article doesn't tell how much Kimi got for simply having a contract with Lotus. Must be millions also. Edit: Crash.net tells that Kimi's base salary was 5 million dollars.

Tbh, it's understandable why Lotus had problems paying that :D

Edited by yonzzu, 19 December 2012 - 06:50.


#911 Jovanotti

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:22

It's obvious Romain got the seat because his manager is the team principal. Only a fool'd think the favoritism will end there.

I'm sure Romain will get away with more things because of Boullier than a "normal" driver would, but they are not too stupid to see that if they got a fast car, Kimi is the one who is able to bring the title home for them. Hell he practically saved their asses by his arrival alone (loads of new sponsors last year plus Burn and probably the fat Honeywell deal for the upcoming seasons).

Edited by Jovanotti, 19 December 2012 - 09:26.


#912 Rentta

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:59

. According to our very trustworthy Ilta-Sanomat

Lol :rotfl:

#913 nomi

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:23

Are there clauses in Kimi's contract again that says he will automatically be signed for 2014 if certain amount of points scored?

#914 DrF

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:27

I've seen Lotus tweets directing people here.

http://www.leavemeal...esyes_tshirt/dp

So i'm guessing they're at least officially approved.

http://www.shotdeadi...rol_Shop_Button
.


#915 DrF

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:32

It clearly affects Kimi that he is teammates with the team principal's client who is receiving basically unprecedented leniency from his team. If you don't want to talk about Kimi's teammate, then don't yourself, but don't try to tell people in the Kimi thread that they are not allowed to mention his teammate.

Does it?

I don't see Kimi being bothered by the Bouillier/Grosjean tryst in the slightest.

Kimi is bothered by:

Steering
Car development
Reliability issues (none this year)
Marketing activities

I think it's some of his more paranoid fans who are bothered by who his team mate and manager are.

But maybe I'm not paranoid enough.

#916 DrF

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:33

So, Kimi is with Romain again next year, it could be an eventful and interesting season.

Lets hope for more of these :)

Posted Image

OMG is Alonso the sorest loser you ever did see?


#917 hijinx

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:20

something short about Kimi's contract translated by Nicole

Read about revelations about Kimi's contract here

#918 KavB

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:30

Kimi made quite a lot of money with the win and points he gathered. According to our very trustworthy Ilta-Sanomat Kimi earned one million dollars for the win in Abu Dhabi and 50 000 dollars for every point during the season.

For 207 points the bonus money is 10,35 million dollars and with the victory 11,35 millions in total. The article doesn't tell how much Kimi got for simply having a contract with Lotus. Must be millions also. Edit: Crash.net tells that Kimi's base salary was 5 million dollars.

Tbh, it's understandable why Lotus had problems paying that :D

Bitter sweet for Lotus! Would his contract be the same for 2013? They probably consider it worth the money but who knows if they can afford it again!

#919 autosportfan

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 18:06

Posted Image

:lol:



This is incorrect. In rally he had a co-driver so he was not left alone.

Left alone he wins!



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#920 Menace

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 20:06

We have a thread now for comparison & discussion of their relative merits so maybe that would be the better place to discuss them, for my part though, only a fool would talk with such certainty about something which, in all probability, they have so little real knowledge of.


:up: :up: :up:

#921 hijinx

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 14:06

Nicole's translation

Russians prefer Kimi

F1 | Turun Sanomat 10:31
The Russian Automotive Magazine -magazine’s website has chosen Kimi Räikkönen as their motosportman of the year. Kimi beat Vettel and Fernando in the voting.
According to reporter Oleg Karpov they took the driver’s achievements, speed and character into consideration in the election.... read more here http://www.racingnerds.com/?p=1237

#922 Callisto

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 15:40

Nicole's translation

Russians prefer Kimi

F1 | Turun Sanomat 10:31
The Russian Automotive Magazine -magazine’s website has chosen Kimi Räikkönen as their motosportman of the year. Kimi beat Vettel and Fernando in the voting.
According to reporter Oleg Karpov they took the driver’s achievements, speed and character into consideration in the election.... read more here http://www.racingnerds.com/?p=1237

:up:

#923 cokeb

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 14:54

In Sky's Season Review they had a segment with Davidson choosing his five favourite overtakes of the season. Three of them were made by Kimi!

(5) Kimi on Schumi at Spa.
(4) Kimi on Schumi at Sao Paulo.

and

(1) Kimi on Hulkenberg at Austin!



#924 Puhoon

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 14:59

Unfortunately they are in the wrong order.

Edited by Puhoon, 25 December 2012 - 15:00.


#925 SpaMaster

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 15:10

^ Same thought here.. :)

#926 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 17:22

Austin

Brazil

http://www.popscreen...hael-Schumacher Spa



#927 Trust

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 20:49

I'm little worry for Kimi in 2013. In latest interview Boullier said they won't invest too much in 2013 car even if it's championship material. This could write off Kimi's title chances for one more year.

#928 Wander

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:29

They know where they're going to be, more or less. Boullier just says how things are.

#929 hijinx

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 13:48

I'm little worry for Kimi in 2013. In latest interview Boullier said they won't invest too much in 2013 car even if it's championship material. This could write off Kimi's title chances for one more year.

sometimes I like to think that Boullier's english is so bad that he comes out all wrong all the time... but I did remember he said at the beginning when they signed Kimi that they only expect to fight for WDC 3 years down the road... what I took it to mean was that they were not backing Kimi but Grosjean bcos they said they would like to develop Grosjean to become WDC one day... but nothing about kimi or WDC chances in these 3 years... so I think Kimi is just seat-warming until a better ride comes along or he will retire after that... in any case, with new sponsorship, I had thought he would have made some promising words out of it than say such things... sad to hear this all in all.

#930 Skinnyguy

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 14:14

In Sky's Season Review they had a segment with Davidson choosing his five favourite overtakes of the season. Three of them were made by Kimi!

(5) Kimi on Schumi at Spa.
(4) Kimi on Schumi at Sao Paulo.

and

(1) Kimi on Hulkenberg at Austin!


I thought the Hockenheim move was as impressive as some of these. The Spa one was a masterpiece because of the gearing and straight line speed context of the fight, and the pass being a brilliant workaround, but for me that one was as good as the other two. :up:

#931 Zava

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 15:21

my favourite is the spa one for various reasons:
-the mental side: it was a perfectly planned overtake, after the trial & error part: first attack was in the bus stop, but turned out wrong as Schumacher could retake the position in the DRS zone, next one was waiting for the DRS zone, turned out wrong as he was slower than MS even with DRS open, what is the only viable option? overtake him before the DRS zone, but without giving MS the advantage of DRS. pure genius :up: and he was not like trying 3 times in the bus stop and 2 times in the DRS zone, then being stuck for another 3 laps... nope, he got it on first try that it is not possible to do in the bus stop/on the DRS straight, and succeeded on the first try with the after-DRS-measure-before-DRS-zone overtake.
-the 'who is the king of spa' debate, as he nailed MS with a car that was fundamentally bad for overtaking (remember that MS nearly finished the re-overtake even with Kimi having DRS and him none!) :p
also IMO it puts the Webber-Alonso overtake into shade, as Webber did it on a 'just emerging from the pit' Alonso, with cold tyres and worse acceleration, while Raikkönen did it in normal race trim.

#932 Shiroo

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 15:36

I'm little worry for Kimi in 2013. In latest interview Boullier said they won't invest too much in 2013 car even if it's championship material. This could write off Kimi's title chances for one more year.

Nah, it's alright. They didn't say that they won't invest too much in 2013 car, it's just they need to work on 2014 car because if they won't, they will fall behind rest of the teams, and due to changes in rules, they need to keep it up with them. It's wise for a team to do not care about 1 year like 2013, and move more works to 2014. But that doesn't mean, that they will just be hopeless in 2013. It will be similar for all teams in 2013 anyway.

I've no idea from where you got that, that they won't invest in next year car "too much". It is normal strategy for everyone when the rules are changing. It would be beyond idiotic to invest in 2013, and then frm 2014 onwards be in midfield or something.

Edited by Shiroo, 26 December 2012 - 15:37.


#933 boldhakka

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 16:02

I'd be very surprised of Lotus come out with a car that was this competetive in the near future. Merc will be much closer, if not ahead, next year.

#934 Diderlo

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 16:12

Nah, it's alright. They didn't say that they won't invest too much in 2013 car, it's just they need to work on 2014 car because if they won't, they will fall behind rest of the teams, and due to changes in rules, they need to keep it up with them. It's wise for a team to do not care about 1 year like 2013, and move more works to 2014. But that doesn't mean, that they will just be hopeless in 2013. It will be similar for all teams in 2013 anyway.

I've no idea from where you got that, that they won't invest in next year car "too much". It is normal strategy for everyone when the rules are changing.
It would be beyond idiotic to invest in 2013, and then frm 2014 onwards be in midfield or something.


Agreed. Teams surely invest money a little bit more cautiously in 2013 car.

And if Kimi, Romain or Lotus led the championship, Lotus surely would invest some extra cash in 2013 (because in that case Lotus should get more sponsor money and you must think about prize money too). If Kimi was distant 4th for example, it would make sense to focus on 2014. Lotus doesn't have the muscles yet to try forcing the championship with big budgets. A lot depends on how the season starts. If it starts well the chances are still there, if it starts horribly Lotus may give up a little bit and focus on next car. But that's just normal.

#935 rijole1

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 22:39

Nah, it's alright. They didn't say that they won't invest too much in 2013 car, it's just they need to work on 2014 car because if they won't, they will fall behind rest of the teams, and due to changes in rules, they need to keep it up with them. It's wise for a team to do not care about 1 year like 2013, and move more works to 2014. But that doesn't mean, that they will just be hopeless in 2013. It will be similar for all teams in 2013 anyway.

I've no idea from where you got that, that they won't invest in next year car "too much". It is normal strategy for everyone when the rules are changing. It would be beyond idiotic to invest in 2013, and then frm 2014 onwards be in midfield or something.

:up:

#936 2ms

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 22:55

If Lotus are smart, then they invested like crazy in 2013 to capitalize on the momentum Kimi has brought them. If they didn't they'll be back to square one, years away from being taken seriously by sponsors, as last season will look like a one-off. Their primary means to good money in 2014 will be via demonstrating success to sponsors during 2013.

This all having been said, they were more than broke half the last season and likely had fewer resources than most mid-pack teams during half of the 2013 car development period, so they may not have had the option to invest properly anyway.

Edited by 2ms, 26 December 2012 - 22:56.


#937 Wander

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 23:11

This all having been said, they were more than broke half the last season and likely had fewer resources than most mid-pack teams during half of the 2013 car development period, so they may not have had the option to invest properly anyway.


This exactly is the thing you guys should remember. I don't think I have enough knowledge of what exactly is going on with the Lotus team in terms of finance and resources to critique their strategy. I'm sure they are trying their best with what they have. The truth is that the 2013 is the last year of these regulations and they already have a competitive car to start with, but it's not realistic to expect them to somehow overtake RBR and Mclaren in development just by putting more money into it - they are still going to lose in budget to those teams! They have to think about 2014 to survive in long term.

#938 Shiroo

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 23:16

If Lotus are smart, then they invested like crazy in 2013 to capitalize on the momentum Kimi has brought them. If they didn't they'll be back to square one, years away from being taken seriously by sponsors, as last season will look like a one-off. Their primary means to good money in 2014 will be via demonstrating success to sponsors during 2013.

This all having been said, they were more than broke half the last season and likely had fewer resources than most mid-pack teams during half of the 2013 car development period, so they may not have had the option to invest properly anyway.

it's not mostly about money here. Money dont build cars, they just are helpful. They need to share windtunnel for 2013 car and 2014 in next year, also share engineers between both projects. They can go 100% in both regulations, coz they need to reshape team a bit, so someone will work (and probably someone is already working, as mentioned somehwere was) for 2014 car.

Money is not everything. Time in wind tunnel, CFD, engineers, regulations interpretation, etc. they are all done by humans, so even with shitload of money, you still need a man in the end

#939 hijinx

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:42

it's not mostly about money here. Money dont build cars, they just are helpful. They need to share windtunnel for 2013 car and 2014 in next year, also share engineers between both projects. They can go 100% in both regulations, coz they need to reshape team a bit, so someone will work (and probably someone is already working, as mentioned somehwere was) for 2014 car.

Money is not everything. Time in wind tunnel, CFD, engineers, regulations interpretation, etc. they are all done by humans, so even with shitload of money, you still need a man in the end

agree :up:

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#940 Jovanotti

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:32

Money is not everything. Time in wind tunnel, CFD, engineers, regulations interpretation, etc. they are all done by humans, so even with shitload of money, you still need a man in the end

...and still, the main resource Lotus lacks is money, that's plain obvious to see, because Enstone is one of the standout tech teams in F1 even if their staff is smaller than RB/Mac/Ferrari/Mercedes'. I'm very confident about the team if they manage to finally close the Honeywell deal.

#941 2ms

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:53

Of course money isn't everything. Money is not sufficient for a good car. But it is necessary. Apparently they did not have nearly sufficient money to develop a good (ie pidpack or better) car for next season until late in the game where Kimi's win and 3rd in WDC yielded new sponsors. If they do not do everything they can to at least stay in midpack development wise, they will tumble in prestige during 2013, not be able to get money, not be able to develop a reasonable car for 2014.

#942 Shiroo

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 13:46

...and still, the main resource Lotus lacks is money, that's plain obvious to see, because Enstone is one of the standout tech teams in F1 even if their staff is smaller than RB/Mac/Ferrari/Mercedes'. I'm very confident about the team if they manage to finally close the Honeywell deal.

Well in 2011 they spent more than MErcedes. Tbh I believe that developing their DRD spent too much time in tunnels etc and in the end it wasnt used (hopefully it will be) while they could introduce Coanda earlier.

#943 Buttoneer

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:44

Simon Rennie discussion split to its own thread;

http://forums.autosp...howtopic=179304

#944 hijinx

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 16:40

New translations from Nicole

Strong faith in Raikkonen's striking ability

and

The feeling will decide Raikkonen's continuance

#945 Shiroo

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 18:47

James Allison got offers from bigger teams last season, but he will still continue with the Enstone crew.

Thanks god.

#946 LaoTze

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:30

Sorry if this has already been posted already:

"Raikkonen Faster Than You Thought: Inside Scoop"

#947 race addicted

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:42

Wonder what Noble is thinking of here;

"(...)new E21 doesn’t perhaps offer all the same advantages as the E20 it should still be quite strong (...)"

#948 Shiroo

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 13:46

Wonder what Noble is thinking of here;

"(...)new E21 doesn’t perhaps offer all the same advantages as the E20 it should still be quite strong (...)"

I highly doubt that. Maybe it wont have that good tyre conservation, but they wouldn't go backwards and that one sounds like that.

#949 2ms

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 15:20

I highly doubt that. Maybe it wont have that good tyre conservation, but they wouldn't go backwards and that one sounds like that.


When reporters are vague in this manner it usually means they are BSing, basically. Perhaps they would like to think and/or imply that a car is better than is commonly recognized, for whatever reason, but they aren't able to back it up and/or can't to go out on limb bc of risks of being rubbished. Vague stuff like "advantages" without anything on relative to what, or in what form, or how, etc, is usually BSing. I wouldn't read into it too much. Just about all of them do it.

Edited by 2ms, 31 December 2012 - 11:05.


#950 boldhakka

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:47

Wonder what Noble is thinking of here;

"(...)new E21 doesn’t perhaps offer all the same advantages as the E20 it should still be quite strong (...)"


He isn't thinking  ;) . Wait for Scarbs.