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Confirmed: Bottas to replace Senna


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#1 tarmac

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 15:20

http://www.auto-moto...na-6180552.html

Toto Wolf said on finnish TV that decision made but not announced

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#2 race addicted

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 15:22

Everyone knew.

#3 darkkis

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 16:48

Someone on Sky said they had asked Bottas if he already had contract news only thing Bottas said was "No comment", and he was laughing... ;) I think it was Brundle who said this.

#4 BoschKurve

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 16:52

I think going with Bottas for 2013 is a bad decision. No race experience since 2011 isn't a good thing.

I'm not sold either on his speed. I think it's a sad day when Williams F1 takes a guy based on him being managed by a minority shareholder in the team. Runs in stark contrast with the way Frank used to run the team.

#5 Wander

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 16:54

We'll see next year. I'm convinced that he will be the better Williams driver.

#6 skywing

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 16:54

I think going with Bottas for 2013 is a bad decision. No race experience since 2011 isn't a good thing.

I'm not sold either on his speed. I think it's a sad day when Williams F1 takes a guy based on him being managed by a minority shareholder in the team. Runs in stark contrast with the way Frank used to run the team.

I think Williams is more than sold on his speed.

#7 BoschKurve

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 16:59

I think Williams is more than sold on his speed.


I look at this long term.

Toto is likely going to be running this team in the future, and I personally can't stand him. Getting his idiot wife as a test driver for no reason other than she is his wife is pathetic.

#8 Francesc

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 17:04

Toto is likely going to be running this team in the future, and I personally can't stand him. Getting his idiot wife as a test driver for no reason other than she is his wife is pathetic.


Agreed, I liked much more Adam Parr. :|

#9 Topsu

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 17:06

I think going with Bottas for 2013 is a bad decision. No race experience since 2011 isn't a good thing.

I'm not sold either on his speed. I think it's a sad day when Williams F1 takes a guy based on him being managed by a minority shareholder in the team. Runs in stark contrast with the way Frank used to run the team.

I think it's a sad day when Williams F1 takes a guy based on him bringing money with sponsors. Runs in stark contrast with the way Frank used to run the team.

#10 darkkis

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 17:19

I think it's a sad day when Williams F1 takes a guy based on him bringing money with sponsors. Runs in stark contrast with the way Frank used to run the team.

Great comment! :up:

#11 BoschKurve

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 17:28

Agreed, I liked much more Adam Parr. :|


Same here. Toto Wolff played a role in Parr getting forced out, which is why I think he is a general *******. If/when Wolff assumes control of the team, I believe he will wind up running it into the ground.

I think it's a sad day when Williams F1 takes a guy based on him bringing money with sponsors. Runs in stark contrast with the way Frank used to run the team.


I agree. I get the feeling even now though, Frank isn't really running the team the way he did in the old days. I mean that with his iron fist...it might be just he has gotten old, or he recognizes Williams fortunes are such that he is attempting to make sure the team survives long term, which I really don't see happening once he is out of the picture.

#12 rodlamas

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 17:32

We'll see next year. I'm convinced that he will be the better Williams driver.


The same was said about Kovalainen in the past. And Bottas is even worse.

#13 BoschKurve

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 17:33

And here is my other thing with Susie Wolff...how does Frank even justify having her as a test driver?

She was nothing more than a glorified backmarker in the DTM. Of the 22 drivers in the 2012 DTM, she was one of two who failed to score any points for the whole season. In fact from 2006 to 2012 she scored exactly 4 points in the DTM. What a joke. That has all the makings of a successful test driver. :rolleyes:

#14 Wander

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 17:34

The same was said about Kovalainen in the past. And Bottas is even worse.


Kovalainen was the better Renault driver.

And I don't know what grounds you have for comparing him to Kovalainen.

#15 motorhead

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 17:39

The same was said about Kovalainen in the past. And Bottas is even worse.


Based on what?

#16 tarmac

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 17:39

I think going with Bottas for 2013 is a bad decision. No race experience since 2011 isn't a good thing.

I'm not sold either on his speed. I think it's a sad day when Williams F1 takes a guy based on him being managed by a minority shareholder in the team. Runs in stark contrast with the way Frank used to run the team.


lol. Bottas has been with Williams for a long time.

Senna has barely done a point/race. Pathetic

#17 darkkis

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 17:41

The same was said about Kovalainen in the past. And Bottas is even worse.

There is no base on your comment. Just compare Bottas' and Kovalainen's driving records. I'd say Bottas has done way better.

#18 Anderis

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 17:42

And here is my other thing with Susie Wolff...how does Frank even justify having her as a test driver?

Well, what's that wrong with having her as a test driver? She is not there at the cost of any talented guy who could really benefit from that role. There were plenty of drivers with the skill nowhere near F1 material and they were having a status of a "test driver".

About Bottas: I'm sure he will be an improvement over Senna.

#19 BoschKurve

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 17:47

lol. Bottas has been with Williams for a long time.

Senna has barely done a point/race. Pathetic


Being with them for a long time doesn't translate into meaning he will be all that great either.

Lots of talented guys who didn't exactly light F1 on fire when people thought they would.

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#20 BoschKurve

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 17:48

Well, what's that wrong with having her as a test driver? She is not there at the cost of any talented guy who could really benefit from that role. There were plenty of drivers with the skill nowhere near F1 material and they were having a status of a "test driver".

About Bottas: I'm sure he will be an improvement over Senna.


Because her being there has nothing to do with anything other than her idiot husband.

Sorry, I think he's an underhanded little shit based on what happened with Adam Parr.

#21 skywing

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 17:49

Being with them for a long time doesn't translate into meaning he will be all that great either.

Lots of talented guys who didn't exactly light F1 on fire when people thought they would.

But please, he hasn't yet driven a race in F1 and you are writing him off already.

#22 Jackmancer

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 17:50

I think it's a sad day when Williams F1 takes a guy based on him bringing money with sponsors. Runs in stark contrast with the way Frank used to run the team.


Well, I think getting a big sponsor is difficult, or a new buyer. At least Wolf will keep the Wiliams name in F1 and keep their employees employed. Have to give him some credit for that. Hope they can build on the fantastic car they had this year.

#23 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 17:51

I think it's a sad day when Williams F1 takes a guy based on him bringing money with sponsors. Runs in stark contrast with the way Frank used to run the team.

Of course in the early days he magicked the money from nowhere.

#24 Wander

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 17:51

Being with them for a long time doesn't translate into meaning he will be all that great either.

Lots of talented guys who didn't exactly light F1 on fire when people thought they would.


What's your point? He has done enough to deserve a go at F1. Why not judge him after he has done that, not before?

#25 One

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 18:15

BBC experts reported that Bottas got backer in Mika and Kimi, they both seems to think that he is the real deal.

As of Wolf, keep him alone, it is AMuS perhaps who want more talks around.

Bottas will be better than Senna.

#26 David Lightman

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 18:18

People are now defending Adam Parr?? What next, a Nick Fry fan club?

#27 dau

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 18:33

And here is my other thing with Susie Wolff...how does Frank even justify having her as a test driver?

She was nothing more than a glorified backmarker in the DTM. Of the 22 drivers in the 2012 DTM, she was one of two who failed to score any points for the whole season. In fact from 2006 to 2012 she scored exactly 4 points in the DTM. What a joke. That has all the makings of a successful test driver. :rolleyes:

A successful test driver? What's that supposed to be?

Look, she will never race for Williams. Her responsibilities include simulator work, driving an F1 car in a straight line test and maybe some promo stuff. She's more than qualified for that. And Bottas will likely do fine. I have no idea what your gripe is with him. You're just criticising for the sake of criticism.

Edited by dau, 24 November 2012 - 18:35.


#28 olliek88

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 18:35

OH MY GOD I DID NOT SEE THIS COMING!!!!

Edited by olliek88, 24 November 2012 - 18:35.


#29 WhatOh

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 18:59

What options does Bruno have (if any)?

#30 steferrari

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:06

What options does Bruno have (if any)?


During qualifying, italian television said that he can replace Grosjean at Lotus, beause he will be able (Senna) to pay for the Renault engines.

I don't know if they got this from a reliable source though.

#31 kpchelsea

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:08

I think going with Bottas for 2013 is a bad decision. No race experience since 2011 isn't a good thing.

I'm not sold either on his speed. I think it's a sad day when Williams F1 takes a guy based on him being managed by a minority shareholder in the team. Runs in stark contrast with the way Frank used to run the team.

...and why is Senna there?

#32 Ravenak

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:08

His money will surely be of interest either for FI, Caterham or Marussia.

#33 BrendanMcF

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:09

Toto Wolff and Mika Häkkinen jointly own a driver management company, and Bottas is one of their drivers, along with Alexandre Premat.

http://en.wikipedia...._Wolff#Investor

#34 george1981

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:15

A successful test driver? What's that supposed to be?

Look, she will never race for Williams. Her responsibilities include simulator work, driving an F1 car in a straight line test and maybe some promo stuff. She's more than qualified for that. And Bottas will likely do fine. I have no idea what your gripe is with him. You're just criticising for the sake of criticism.


These are useful experiences for an up an coming driver, I'd prefer to see someone who might have a chance of having an F1 career getting this experience rather than someone with a poor racing career who happens to be married to one of the team owners.


#35 BoschKurve

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:17

A successful test driver? What's that supposed to be?

Look, she will never race for Williams. Her responsibilities include simulator work, driving an F1 car in a straight line test and maybe some promo stuff. She's more than qualified for that. And Bottas will likely do fine. I have no idea what your gripe is with him. You're just criticising for the sake of criticism.


Williams had quite a few successful test drivers in the old days. So did other teams for that matter.

And really how is she qualified?

She was a DTM backmarker who scored 4 points in 7 seasons. :rolleyes:

You know what my problem with Bottas is? There's been an influx of idiots allowed onto the grid who have not enough experience to properly drive in Formula 1. Grosjean and Maldonado were the two worst offenders of the 2012 season. Remember, everyone says both of them are fast...sort of like Bottas. I don't feel like seeing another young driver who has spatial awareness problems.

Anyone who gets Ecclestone's blessing, I wouldn't trust with my life, which is what Toto has.

#36 BoschKurve

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:19

...and why is Senna there?


At least people knew what they were getting with Senna, as opposed to Toto's client. :eek:

#37 skywing

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:21

At least people knew what they were getting with Senna, as opposed to Toto's client. :eek:

Williams has lots and lots of data about Bottas and his driving and that's all that matters for them. They know what they get.

#38 BoschKurve

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:24

Williams has lots and lots of data about Bottas and his driving and that's all that matters for them. They know what they get.


Why, actually, the only thing Williams cares about is money these days.

I wonder how much of an effort they made to try to go after Hamilton.

#39 WhatOh

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:27

During qualifying, italian television said that he can replace Grosjean at Lotus, beause he will be able (Senna) to pay for the Renault engines.

I don't know if they got this from a reliable source though.


That would be interesting seeing as Grosjean replaced Senna. I can't remember who it was but one of the Lotus guys had bit of go at Senna and Petrov after they left.

I was hoping he could get into Force India but it looks like that vacancy has been filled.

Incidentally how much of a difference would Senna's money (I read he can raise £30M) make to team like Caterham/Marussia?

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#40 Anderis

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:28

You know what my problem with Bottas is? There's been an influx of idiots allowed onto the grid who have not enough experience to properly drive in Formula 1. Grosjean and Maldonado were the two worst offenders of the 2012 season. Remember, everyone says both of them are fast...sort of like Bottas. I don't feel like seeing another young driver who has spatial awareness problems.

I wonder how drivers are going to get enough F1 experience without driving F1 car? Maldonado and Grosjean had as much experience from pre-F1 as you can only expect from young drivers. They couldn't really get more experience before getting an F1 drive.

There is no reason to think Bottas will be as crash-prone as Grosjean and Maldonado. His race-craft was superior in GP3 and he made almost no crashes in his all testing and FP1 in F1 car.

I struggle to undestand what is your point.

#41 skywing

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:28

I wonder how drivers are going to get enough F1 experience without driving F1 car? Maldonado and Grosjean had as much experience from pre-F1 as you can only expect from young drivers. They couldn't really get more experience before getting an F1 drive.

There is no reason to think Bottas will be as crash-prone as Grosjean and Maldonado. His race-craft was superior in GP3 and he made almost no crashes in his all testing and FP1 in F1 car.

I struggle to undestand what is your point.

:up:

#42 One

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:30

What options does Bruno have (if any)?


Get Ninja to pay HRT and make Brazillian Formula One team, call Rubens as his second driver.

#43 scheivlak

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:30

People are now defending Adam Parr?? What next, a Nick Fry fan club?

:D

Brilliant!

#44 olliek88

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:33

I think going with Bottas for 2013 is a bad decision. No race experience since 2011 isn't a good thing.

I'm not sold either on his speed. I think it's a sad day when Williams F1 takes a guy based on him being managed by a minority shareholder in the team. Runs in stark contrast with the way Frank used to run the team.


Just take 5 minutes of your time to look at his record. Won in everything he competed in and has never finished lower than 3rd in every championship's final standing that he took part in!

And your using the fact he has just spent the season testing in almost every FP1 session as a bad thing? :drunk:

Valterri has alot about him IMO, time will tell. His management has little to do with it i think, a bit like saying Lewis Hamilton only got his seat in 2007 because he was a Mclaren young driver, sure it helped but his record more than justified it. Same for Bottas.

#45 Wander

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:36

You know what my problem with Bottas is? There's been an influx of idiots allowed onto the grid who have not enough experience to properly drive in Formula 1. Grosjean and Maldonado were the two worst offenders of the 2012 season. Remember, everyone says both of them are fast...sort of like Bottas. I don't feel like seeing another young driver who has spatial awareness problems.


It has nothing to do with experience. If Grosjean didn't have enough experience at the start of this year, I don't know what kind of driver would have: 3 seasons worth of GP2, 2 seasons of Formula 3 euro series, 2 seasons of GP2 Asia, 10 starts of GT1 World Championship, 1 season of Auto GP, a couple of 24h races + before all that he had done seasons of French Formula Renault, Formula Renault Eurocup etc. Not to mention that he had already driven 7 F1 races.

That's shitloads of all kinds of racing experience, mostly open wheel. And Maldonado had nearly as much experience when he got to F1 (4 seasons of GP2 for one thing).

By comparison, a certain Kimi Räikkönen had done exactly 23 car races when he stepped into that Sauber in 2001. I repeat, 23 car races. And a certain Fernando Alonso had done only a couple more than that when he got to F1 the very same season. How many dangerous accidents did they cause?

It has nothing to do with experience.

#46 BoschKurve

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:45

Just take 5 minutes of your time to look at his record. Won in everything he competed in and has never finished lower than 3rd in every championship's final standing that he took part in!

And your using the fact he has just spent the season testing in almost every FP1 session as a bad thing? :drunk:

Valterri has alot about him IMO, time will tell. His management has little to do with it i think, a bit like saying Lewis Hamilton only got his seat in 2007 because he was a Mclaren young driver, sure it helped but his record more than justified it. Same for Bottas.


Lewis was also racing in 2006. He didn't take a year off and then come into McLaren in 2007.

Bottas last raced in an actual race at Monza in September 2011. Australia is still 4 months away. At that point, he will not have actually been in a race in about 18 months.

I don't see any upside to this. FP1 isn't the same as running in a race...not like there is any pressure involved.

I would have felt better had he actually been continuing to hone his skill...and yes I know he can't because he is running FP1 sessions. However, I'm a firm believer in keeping your skills sharp by participating in actual races.

#47 BoschKurve

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:47

It has nothing to do with experience. If Grosjean didn't have enough experience at the start of this year, I don't know what kind of driver would have: 3 seasons worth of GP2, 2 seasons of Formula 3 euro series, 2 seasons of GP2 Asia, 10 starts of GT1 World Championship, 1 season of Auto GP, a couple of 24h races + before all that he had done seasons of French Formula Renault, Formula Renault Eurocup etc. Not to mention that he had already driven 7 F1 races.

That's shitloads of all kinds of racing experience, mostly open wheel. And Maldonado had nearly as much experience when he got to F1 (4 seasons of GP2 for one thing).

By comparison, a certain Kimi Räikkönen had done exactly 23 car races when he stepped into that Sauber in 2001. I repeat, 23 car races. And a certain Fernando Alonso had done only a couple more than that when he got to F1 the very same season. How many dangerous accidents did they cause?

It has nothing to do with experience.


Yes and they happen to be the two best drivers in the world.

Grosjean and Maldonado are not.

Bottas, who knows.

Safety also plays into it...people have been lulled into a false sense of invincibility the more safety is added.

#48 olliek88

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:55

Lewis was also racing in 2006. He didn't take a year off and then come into McLaren in 2007.

Bottas last raced in an actual race at Monza in September 2011. Australia is still 4 months away. At that point, he will not have actually been in a race in about 18 months.

I don't see any upside to this. FP1 isn't the same as running in a race...not like there is any pressure involved.

I would have felt better had he actually been continuing to hone his skill...and yes I know he can't because he is running FP1 sessions. However, I'm a firm believer in keeping your skills sharp by participating in actual races.


Kimi had three season out of racing, how many incidents has he caused this season?

Grosjean came in after a GP2 season, how many has he caused?

The grounds your basing your dislike of BOTTAS getting the seat are shaky, at best. I'd say the fact he now has plenty of experience of an F1 machine means he'll be much more comfortable & confident when next season starts than if he hadn't driven in FP1s. Race craft isn't something you forget over night and its not something you are guaranteed to have just because you've been racing, Kimi & Romain being the perfect examples.

#49 Wander

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:56

I would have felt better had he actually been continuing to hone his skill...and yes I know he can't because he is running FP1 sessions. However, I'm a firm believer in keeping your skills sharp by participating in actual races.

I think your beliefs are nonsensical.

Kimi had driven exactly two races with other cars on the track in the last 3 years when he came back to F1 this year. Didn't seem to have hurt his racecraft much.

Hulkenberg did not race at all last year, he's done a great job this year.

Damon Hill had driven exactly 2 races the previous year when he got into the Williams in 1993.

Kovalainen also only did testing in 2006. He was fine in 2007. Maybe didn't set F1 on fire, but did beat the super experienced Giancarlo that year.

How many other examples do you need?

Edit: The point here is btw. that none of them were a safety hazard even though they hadn't raced in a while.

Edited by Wander, 24 November 2012 - 19:59.


#50 KateLM

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:59

I thought Bottas was involved with Williams before Wolff was but according to Wikipedia I was wrong on that one. Whoops.

I don't rate him quite as highly as everyone else does, I have to admit. His record looks good on paper, but his F3 Euroseries campaign didn't live up to expectations when you consider he was driving for ART both seasons. GP3 did a lot to salvage his reputation, but I always thought that compared to the competition both he and Sims were really a bit too experienced to still be racing at that level - after 2 years of Euroseries the next step should have been WSbR or GP2. And even then it took him until the second half of 2011 to get it together.

But what do I know, Williams seem to think he's good. And I can't pretend that I'll miss Senna either.