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2012 - Brazilian GP race - TITLE DECIDER!


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#1101 choyothe

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:23

Hulk was penalised for collision with Hamilton
Vettel was not penalised for collision with Senna

thoughts?


Yea, ridiculous penalty for Hulk to get Alonso through.

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#1102 F1Champion

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:23

What a race, I thought it was all over when Vettel spun, I thought the strange predictions of what Alonso required were to come true, but the fightback through the field from stone last was pretty special. I didn't understand the decision that RB made to go on dry tyres, strange as all they had to do was cover Alonso, thought they shot themselves in the foot but another strong drive from Vettel sorted that out.

#1103 F1Champion

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:25

Hulk was penalised for collision with Hamilton
Vettel was not penalised for collision with Senna

thoughts?


In extremely tricky conditions I was very surprised to see Hulk get a penalty. Under dry conditions maybe but in wet its pretty much a racing incident. Anyway it doesn't really matter now.

#1104 Muppetmad

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:26

Hulk was penalised for collision with Hamilton
Vettel was not penalised for collision with Senna

thoughts?


Indeed, it's pathetic. Vettel's lack of spacial awareness there - did he turn in without even looking? - is the sort of thing people have harped on at Grosjean for all year and it took out two other drivers. It should have been investigated at the very least.

#1105 Verderer

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:26

My my, what is it with these Brazilian drivers loving to help Alonso win? Piquet jr., Massa and now Senna? Still, nice that the hit-and-run didnt destroy Vettel's race.

To Ferrari all I can say is: Ha, Ha! Karma is a bitch.

#1106 Niceone

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:26

Hulk was penalised for collision with Hamilton
Vettel was not penalised for collision with Senna

thoughts?

Hulk vs. Hamilton = racing incident. No reason for penalty.
Finger vs. Senna = Senna made stupid charge

#1107 dav115

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:26

Vettel clearly passed under yellows. The red/yellow flag was earlier on in S2.

#1108 sheepgobba

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:27

Yea, ridiculous penalty for Hulk to get Alonso through.


Are you serious or delusional?

#1109 Mr.Wayne

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:27

Vettel clearly passed under yellows. The red/yellow flag was earlier on in S2.

Did you see the light flashing at all???
For it to be a yellow flag has to be flashing... *sigh*

#1110 choyothe

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:27

:rotfl: Hill and Herbert are bitter as hell

#1111 tarmac

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:28

No it looked red&yellow lights on back of the hill

#1112 Niceone

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:28

Yea, ridiculous penalty for Hulk to get Alonso through.

Yeah..all the people watching here were laughing at that penalty. It was just too obvious attempt to help Alonso..

#1113 choyothe

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:28

My my, what is it with these Brazilian drivers loving to help Alonso win? Piquet jr., Massa and now Senna? Still, nice that the hit-and-run didnt destroy Vettel's race.

To Ferrari all I can say is: Ha, Ha! Karma is a bitch.



Hulk vs. Hamilton = racing incident. No reason for penalty.
Finger vs. Senna = Senna made stupid charge


:up:

#1114 natureboy

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:29

Seems like a penalty to me.
First yellow, then green, then 3 yellow lights. Passes KK after the 1st yellow.

#1115 f1fastestlap

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:29

Are you serious or delusional?

Delusional....

#1116 choyothe

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:30

No it looked red&yellow lights on back of the hill


And what I looked there was a green flag 100 meters before that flag. How can that be if the flag was yellow?

#1117 jee

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:30

So, blinking yellows, and no SC = Red&Yellow? Solid yellow and no SC = Yellow. While blinking yellow & SC sign = SC?


what looks like solid yellow is red/yellow (slippery surface)
blinking is always yellow flag

#1118 olliek88

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:30

Did you see the light flashing at all???
For it to be a yellow flag has to be flashing... *sigh*


:up:

The LED wasn't flashing and if you look carefully on the left going up the pit straight you can see a red/yellow flag getting waved!

#1119 SpaMaster

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:32

Fantastic drive by Hulkenberg! My Driver of the Day! Don't agree with that penalty at all. It may have been his mistake. But every mistake does not have to be punished. I suspect ulterior motives.

One of the craziest races I have ever seen!

Top four drivers of this season were some way off their teammates, in a league of their own!

Special mention to Vettel, Massa and Kobayashi for their drives today!

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#1120 dav115

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:32

Did you see the light flashing at all???
For it to be a yellow flag has to be flashing... *sigh*

Wrong, static yellows mean cautious and no overtaking, flashing yellows also mean slow the hell down because there is something on the track (e.g. marshalls).

#1121 george1981

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:33

Allan McNish who has been an F1 driver steward said he thought Vettel passed under a yellow flag.



#1122 undersquare

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:33

Hmm, I reckon if it had been Senna turning in on Vettel at T4 and putting him out, instead of the other way round, he'd have had a penalty...

#1123 pRy

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:34

Vettel complaining about other team tactics on BBC. I'm guessing he means Ferrari.

#1124 AllTwelve

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:35

Did you see the light flashing at all???
For it to be a yellow flag has to be flashing... *sigh*


looking back on lap 8, I thought it was Rosberg that Vettel passed under yellow.

Good race though, and congrats to SV and RBR.

#1125 fatd

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:35

Just realized that Petrov finished 11th here, which means that Caterham is in front of Marussia in the standing right?
And Pic in 12th, great result from both.

#1126 Myrvold

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:36

Hulk vs. Hamilton = racing incident. No reason for penalty.
Finger vs. Senna = Senna made stupid charge


Stupid charge? ON the so-called racing line, and NOT drifting out at all? While Vettel came from outside the "racing line", cutting over to the apex, and then there was contact? I don't care that Vettel didn't get a penalty for that, however, no way that one is going to be pegged on Senna.

#1127 robefc

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:38

Fantastic drive by Hulkenberg! My Driver of the Day! Don't agree with that penalty at all. It may have been his mistake. But every mistake does not have to be punished. I suspect ulterior motives.

One of the craziest races I have ever seen!

Top four drivers of this season were some way off their teammates, in a league of their own!

Special mention to Vettel, Massa and Kobayashi for their drives today!


I'm not sure you can have your mistake wipe out the leader of the race whilst you continue and not get a penalty...

#1128 Massa_f1

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:41

Stupid charge? ON the so-called racing line, and NOT drifting out at all? While Vettel came from outside the "racing line", cutting over to the apex, and then there was contact? I don't care that Vettel didn't get a penalty for that, however, no way that one is going to be pegged on Senna.



It was Senna's fault and it is easy to see from Senna's on board.

#1129 anti

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:42

Race: :: Pit :: Best lap :: Lap Chart :: History graph


#1130 Fourjays

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:42

Because Vettel didn't pass under yellow....

Did you see the light flashing? I bet not...

And, as someone posted earlier, race control did look into the issue, and apaprently, the yellow on the tv image was simply reflection from the pirelli boards at the side of the track.

Just seen it on Sky. They were flashing. All 6 of them.

Was waiting to post until I'd seen the video again. Disgraceful from the FIA. He clearly passed Kobayashi under yellows. There was one shown prior to the move, one while alongside and a further four after. The only slippery track flag was shown three corners earlier and was itself followed by a green light (which was followed immediately by the first of the six yellows down the straight).

No question about it that he overtook under yellows. Can't wait to hear how the FIA wiggle out of this one...

Edited by Fourjays, 25 November 2012 - 18:43.


#1131 EamerRed

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:43

How can it be Senna's fault?! Vettel gave him no room!

#1132 Muppetmad

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:43

It was Senna's fault and it is easy to see from Senna's on board.


No. Look at the overhead shot, and see how sharply Vettel turned in in comparison to everybody else - he was 100% at fault.

#1133 robefc

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:43

It was Senna's fault and it is easy to see from Senna's on board.


Senna was half way overlapping vettel and holding his line whereas vettel was moving towards the inside of the track, how can that be senna's fault?

#1134 Mr.Wayne

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:45

Just seen it on Sky. They were flashing. All 6 of them.

Was waiting to post until I'd seen the video again. Disgraceful from the FIA. He clearly passed Kobayashi under yellows. There was one shown prior to the move, one while alongside and a further four after. The only slippery track flag was shown three corners earlier and was itself followed by a green light (which was followed immediately by the first of the six yellows down the straight).

No question about it that he overtook under yellows. Can't wait to hear how the FIA wiggle out of this one...

Sigh... once again
The first ones (around pico de pato) were flashing.
Then, before getting on for the final uphill "straight", at the corner, there was a green light.
Then, the other "yellow" were not flashing between yellow and "off", as the ones before...
Go and watch the reply again... They were not flashing.

#1135 Massa_f1

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:45

Just seen it on Sky. They were flashing. All 6 of them.

Was waiting to post until I'd seen the video again. Disgraceful from the FIA. He clearly passed Kobayashi under yellows. There was one shown prior to the move, one while alongside and a further four after. The only slippery track flag was shown three corners earlier and was itself followed by a green light (which was followed immediately by the first of the six yellows down the straight).

No question about it that he overtook under yellows. Can't wait to hear how the FIA wiggle out of this one...



One of the lights on was green even sky said that. I am not even sure why lights are on. There was no car spun or anything.

#1136 Peat

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:51

Wait. Wait. Wait.

Ask yourself WHY would the whole circuit be covered in 'yellow' lights and no SC?

Also, watch a lap or so later when SV makes a pitstop, you can clearly see that the lights on the straight are Red/Yellow stripes.

This is such a non-story.

#1137 sv401

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:51

One of the lights on was green even sky said that. I am not even sure why lights are on. There was no car spun or anything.


It was yellow&orange. That makes sense. Yellow does not, there was no reason at all to have yellow flags there.

#1138 four1

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:52

Vettel complaining about other team tactics on BBC. I'm guessing he means Ferrari.

Nah, more than likely he meant Mercedes and MS for moving over for him. ;)

#1139 John Player

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:56

What a race!!! They should race twice at interlagos every season!!

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#1140 olliek88

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:56

Just seen it on Sky. They were flashing. All 6 of them.

Was waiting to post until I'd seen the video again. Disgraceful from the FIA. He clearly passed Kobayashi under yellows. There was one shown prior to the move, one while alongside and a further four after. The only slippery track flag was shown three corners earlier and was itself followed by a green light (which was followed immediately by the first of the six yellows down the straight).

No question about it that he overtook under yellows. Can't wait to hear how the FIA wiggle out of this one...


No they weren't. They had yellows out in the middle sector (along with red/yellow flags) but at the bottom of the hill there is clearly a green LED, then up the hill the LEDs are NOT flashing, 1000% they are not and if you think they were your either blind or stupid, frankly. Plus on the left hand side on the way up the hill there is a red/yellow flag.

Jesus, my head is going to go through a wall at this rate. It was a legimate over take, do you not think Koba would of been straight on to the radio if it wasn't legit? Or Sauber wouldn't have got straight on the phone to Charlie?

#1141 F1Champion

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:59

Stupid charge? ON the so-called racing line, and NOT drifting out at all? While Vettel came from outside the "racing line", cutting over to the apex, and then there was contact? I don't care that Vettel didn't get a penalty for that, however, no way that one is going to be pegged on Senna.


The only thing is that Senna did overtake 2 other cars by braking so late so you could say it was too optimistic.

#1142 Myrvold

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:02

The only thing is that Senna did overtake 2 other cars by braking so late so you could say it was too optimistic.


I would've agreed if he had struggled to keep the inside, but as far as I could see, he wasn't.

#1143 race addicted

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:06

What an exhausting race. First of all, well done to Red Bull Racing and Vettel! Big congrats!

-Button wins, easy job just cruising to the finish. I think the dynamic between him and Hamilton on the different slicks, was interesting; Button faster on the options at the start, Hamilton faster on the primes. Huge shame for Hamilton getting punted off by Hülkenberg! Worst way to end the season, 'cause it would've been so nice to end it with the win I believe he was on course to get.

-Good job by both Ferrari drivers today. Creative work from Massa riding shotgun for his team-mate. Alonso did all he could, but it wasn't enough.

-Hülkenberg drove so well, and was so impressive, untill he made that horribly idiotic mistake, getting too ambitious. Not only did he wipe out Hamilton, but he also cost McLaren second in the CC.
Di Resta's race was almost the opposite of his team-mate's, but he was decent in the early parts.

-Vettel.... wow, what a crazy day for him! Smacked up car, ended lap one last but then fought through. That took a lot of composure. Impressive. His team even made it harder for him putting him on the wrong tires.
Apart from the crash, Webber's race was also chaotic, and he did a good job.

-Nice that Schumacher could bow out with points, but he was hopelessly slow in the wettest part of the race, towards the end. Not a race to remember really.

-Probably the worst race of the year for Räikkönen, but he was at the mercy of his car not putting enough heat into the tires I believe. What happened with Grosjean? Did he get help spinning?

-A shame that Kobayashi spun off, otherwise he drove a feisty and impressive race.

-Great effort from Petrov, netting Caterham that very important and decisive 10th in the CC.

Before the race started, I said it is in a way, nice that the season is over. When your interest goes so far as it does for us here, it's nice to get a break, but now I dread thinking about the long wait till the 15th of march next year.

#1144 Peat

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:06

The guys he was passing were busy tripping over themselves not wanting to touch Vettel.

Bruno took his chance and it would have stuck. Bit of a loony line from SV taking a late apex in the midfeild scrum. Asking for trouble.

Can't beleive the RBR held up either!!

#1145 August

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:07

What a race!!! They should race twice at interlagos every season!!


Just use the old long circuit in the another race.

#1146 prty

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:16

Nah, more than likely he meant Mercedes and MS for moving over for him.;)


I'm pretty sure he meant Webber. Wait no, that's the same team. Guess he means Toro Rosso then ;)


#1147 olliek88

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:20

AAAAAAAAAAAA!! BIG FAT UGLY DJ GUY ON THE BBC FORUM! HE LIVES! *Apologies*

#1148 darkkis

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:23

Just use the old long circuit in the another race.

Räikkönen would be strong in the race with old layout. :D

#1149 Juan Kerr

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:29

It was Senna's fault and it is easy to see from Senna's on board.

We've seen these incidents a million times and everyone knows you can argue both ways but the fact is watch Raikkonen jump out of the way, Vettel got involved in a crash and is therefore at least 50% to blame, he didn't avoid it well enough. He reminds me a lot of Prost in that he's not amazingly fast he just does enough and things fall in his lap. The other 2 cars went out and surprise surprise Vettel's car is ok.

#1150 Juan Kerr

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:30

Every time I see Button on the top step now all I can think of is 'so what must've happened to Hamilton?'