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2012 - Brazilian GP race - TITLE DECIDER!


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#1151 apoka

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:34

That was one of the most exciting races I have ever seen. Vettel at the back of the grid in lap 1, fighting his way through the field like a devil in a damaged car, later an unnecessary pit stop and lots of time lost at another stop - and he still managed to get P6.

A pity that Hulkenberg didn't win. He was the driver of the day until that incident for which he basically received a double penalty putting him behind the Ferraris.

Massa was very strong as well.


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#1152 bongofury

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:38

Räikkönen would be strong in the race with old layout. :D


He had a good go at it today.


#1153 f1rookie

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:38


Race in Photos – 2012 Brazilian Grand Prix

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More Pictures - http://www.formula1o...azilian-gp.html





#1154 sniper80

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:41

Is there any truth in the fact that Vettel is still under investigation for overtaking under yellows?

#1155 Baddoer

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:42

I don't understand how Force India was faster than McLaren in the middle of the race. That is the most mysterious performance in whole season.

Edited by Baddoer, 25 November 2012 - 19:43.


#1156 SenorSjon

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:43

Watch the Sky Video review:
http://www1.skysport...o/12870/8282348

1. Vettel cut to the racing line, not giving enoug space to Senna.
2. Vettel overtook Kobayashi under yellow. Koba pitted. In any other race, that would have been a DT.

#1157 Goron3

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:43

Is there any truth in the fact that Vettel is still under investigation for overtaking under yellows?


I'm pretty sure he was never under investigation. He technically should be but it's not going to happen with a championship on the line.

#1158 Fourjays

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:52

No they weren't. They had yellows out in the middle sector (along with red/yellow flags) but at the bottom of the hill there is clearly a green LED, then up the hill the LEDs are NOT flashing, 1000% they are not and if you think they were your either blind or stupid, frankly. Plus on the left hand side on the way up the hill there is a red/yellow flag.

Jesus, my head is going to go through a wall at this rate. It was a legimate over take, do you not think Koba would of been straight on to the radio if it wasn't legit? Or Sauber wouldn't have got straight on the phone to Charlie?

Yes, you are right sorry. The ones up the hill aren't flashing - my mistake. They are still on though (and most definitely not reflections of Pirelli signs). What's the difference between flashing/non-flashing? Or are they supposed to be red/yellow lights and not showing up correctly on TV?

Looking at it here (about 05:20), and still can't see a red/yellow flag on the left going up the hill from the final turn. Although it's a poor quality video.

#1159 bongofury

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:56

RED / YELLOW lights do NOT flash

YELLOW lights FLASH.

End of.


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#1160 Torsion

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:05

RED / YELLOW lights do NOT flash

YELLOW lights FLASH.

End of.


Martin Brundle on Sky F1 mentioned that he spoke to one of the stewards who confirmed that they were Red/Yellow rather than Yellow.



#1161 sv401

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:08

Is there any truth in the fact that Vettel is still under investigation for overtaking under yellows?


He is not under investigation, and did not overtake under yellows, as already explained repeatedly. The rest of the statement is true. :p

Edited by sv401, 25 November 2012 - 20:08.


#1162 917k

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 21:02

I didn't realize you had to be 10 years old or less to post on these race threads. Remind me not to check in again, what a bunch of infantile ranting and raving. :down:

#1163 tifosi

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 21:04

I didn't realize you had to be 10 years old or less to post on these race threads. Remind me not to check in again, what a bunch of infantile ranting and raving. :down:



Agreed. Unfortunatley this bb has gone down in quality greatly in the past 5 years or so,

#1164 Alfisti

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 00:29

I am a bit late but here is my take, trying to be as impartial as I can.
- The Vettel/Senna incident is, IMHO, a black and white case yet again of the man on the outside assuming the racing line when another car is sitting on the apex. I see no fault at all with the inside man being there, that’s the essence of racing. It is the responsibility of the man taking the wide line to stay wide if another car is on the inside, this allows for great wheel to wheel racing rather than chops. Vettel 100% to blame though I suspect he did not see Senna there.

- Are there any more fools left who feel the backmarkers unlapping themselves when a SC comes out is a good idea? I have been vehemently against it in other threads and again today you see how absolutely FARCICAL this rule is. For a start it’s unbelievably unfair, plus it’s boring and as seen today with cool temps, potentially dangerous given the long time behind the car.

- RBR what were you thinking????? For the love of god, rule number one is to simply mirror Alonso, why you’d EVER pit first is utterly unfathomable, what an outright idiotic decision to pit for slicks.

- RBR and gearing, I mean I used to assume the car was inherently draggy until they started from the pit lane a few races back so why on EARTH would you send Vettel out with such short gearing?? He was a sitting duck all day, mind-blowingly stupid.

- Webber. Atrocious race, pushed Vettel far too hard on at least two occasions, I’d fire him after that, seriously what’s 10 mil or so to RBR?? I have been a fan of his since day one but that was unacceptable.

- One always had a feeling it was going to come unglued at the front and that Alonso would SOMEHOW find himself where he needed to be. A fine drive from Hulkenberg to top off a brilliant second half of the year, I would suggest RBR have missed the boat big time with this kid.

- Other than the Senna incident, a fine drive from Vettel, proving his pace and calmness under pressure. Fully deserves the crown despite Alonso’s relentless pressure with a racy but poor qualifying car. His team mate is allowed to race him early in the year (unlike Alonso’s) and is fast on Saturday (unlike Hamilton’s), so he has the greatest internal threat. He’s a tough bloke to warm too yet is still more likable than the other two members of the top 3 because he seems to retain some sense of humility.

- Alonso was grand yet again, a fine season. It is a shame he is such a tough bloke to like given the comments he made about “racing Newey”, yet again displaying an ego that is barely in check.

That’ll do me.


#1165 Dolph

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 00:31

- RBR what were you thinking????? For the love of god, rule number one is to simply mirror Alonso, why you’d EVER pit first is utterly unfathomable, what an outright idiotic decision to pit for slicks.


+1

#1166 hsvone

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 00:52

It's been a fantastic season, and fitting that it comes down to the final race. Either of the two men in the hunt will be deserving WDCs IMO. Just hoping for a fun, clean race with a bit of tension for the neutral! A finish 2008 style would be perfect.

Enjoy the race, everyone.


Thanks Gareth. I don't have any fingernails left after that one. Can you say OMG what a fitting end to the season?? :eek:

Seb was so very lucky he didn't have worse damage or retire on the spot. Bravo to him on driving such a courageous race in incredibly difficult conditions with a wounded car. :up:

Fernando you are still a champion. You did everything possible but win and you can be damn proud of your season's efforts. :smoking:

Awesome season. Roll on 2013. :clap:



#1167 karne

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 00:55

I can't believe Vettel didn't get a penalty for that chop on Senna, yet Hulkenberg was given one for a total racing incident. :down:

#1168 Dolph

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 00:57

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Why's Felipe crying? Memories of 2008?

#1169 Doughnut King

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 00:58

Anyone else notice that Maldonado mystery disappeared from the race? I assumed he'd been involved in the Vettel-Senna clash but he drove straight through, only to drop out without a word from anyone a lap or two later.

I can't believe Vettel didn't get a penalty for that chop on Senna, yet Hulkenberg was given one for a total racing incident. :down:


I thought the same. If they're going to implement a points on your license system, such things are going to become far more contentious.

Edited by Doughnut King, 26 November 2012 - 01:00.


#1170 beute

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 00:58

I can't believe Vettel didn't get a penalty for that chop on Senna, yet Hulkenberg was given one for a total racing incident. :down:


I understand it when people wish for something bad to happen to one driver in order to help another.
Like alonso fans hoping vettel would retire or the other way around.

you on the other hand are just hating on one particular driver just for the sake of it.
it's not like you care about Sennas race being destroyed, you actually couldnt care less, all you want is to see Vettel punished, doesnt matter if what he did was wrong or not, or if it would help another driver that you like or whatever.
you just want to see him suffer, yet you would never apply the same rules to any other driver on the grid.

try to be a bit more objective, less hypocritical and less driven by emotions... that would make it easier to take your comments seriously.

Edited by beute, 26 November 2012 - 01:10.


#1171 Dolph

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 00:59

Just use the old long circuit in the another race.


Yes, please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#1172 mnmracer

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 00:59

I can't believe Vettel didn't get a penalty for that chop on Senna, yet Hulkenberg was given one for a total racing incident. :down:

The Hulkenberg penalty was a farce, but Vettel could not have seen Senna coming; Senna braked very very late past the Force India that blocked Vettel's view.
Both clear-cut racing incidents.

#1173 engel

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:11

Anyone else notice that Maldonado mystery disappeared from the race? I assumed he'd been involved in the Vettel-Senna clash but he drove straight through, only to drop out without a word from anyone a lap or two later.


he dropped the car at the start of L2 near the pit exit

#1174 Alfisti

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:14

The Hulkenberg penalty was a farce, but Vettel could not have seen Senna coming; Senna braked very very late past the Force India that blocked Vettel's view.
Both clear-cut racing incidents.


This. Vettel and hulkenberg were at fault but easy mistakes to make.

#1175 robefc

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:16

- Are there any more fools left who feel the backmarkers unlapping themselves when a SC comes out is a good idea? I have been vehemently against it in other threads and again today you see how absolutely FARCICAL this rule is. For a start it’s unbelievably unfair, plus it’s boring and as seen today with cool temps, potentially dangerous given the long time behind the car.


Criticising anyone who might argue with you in advance is an interesting way of posting.

IIRC it took one lap extra for the backmakers to unlap themselves? As a Lewis fan I was praying that they would be allowed to beacuse he had 3 people between him and button.

#1176 ryan86

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:34

Why's Felipe crying? Memories of 2008?


My thoughts are that he, like many of us, thought that he'd never again see days like this. Remember where he was in May this year and the joy of being on the podium, in front of "his people" got to him.

#1177 Alfisti

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:35

My thoughts are that he, like many of us, thought that he'd never again see days like this. Remember where he was in May this year and the joy of being on the podium, in front of "his people" got to him.


He needs to harden up.

#1178 Kyo

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:09

Loved when Piquet suggested that Alonso lost the title duo to Grosjean! :lol:

#1179 Shiroo

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:11

He needs to harden up.

Massa you need to:


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#1180 HP

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:43

- RBR what were you thinking????? For the love of god, rule number one is to simply mirror Alonso, why you’d EVER pit first is utterly unfathomable, what an outright idiotic decision to pit for slicks.

This gives you some idea what happened.

http://www.autosport...rce=mostpopular

From that source and other RBR's decisions I believe it was made out of necessity.

The car didn't work well in the dry with the damage sustained. (Quite ironically a wet track was what Vettel needed to be able to hang on.). Car was harder on tires than usual and they do have a limited amount of tires allocated. So sending him out on the softer tires was not ideal, but necessary. They also couldn't wait until Vettels tires were toast just to stick to the rule to cover Alonso. Plus the radio was already toast by then. That it started raining the next lap added insult to the injury. With differing weather reports (at that time, some meteo sources suggested, no more rain), it was a lottery anyway.

All in all good crisis management and damage limitation. In any case it added to the drama, which probably is good for the majority of watchers.

#1181 HP

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:46

He needs to harden up.


And that would make exactly what kind of difference? If he starts crying during the race, well that'd be bad for him, but him showing emotions after the race is over, what's wrong with that?

#1182 gillesthegenius

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:48

He is not under investigation, and did not overtake under yellows, as already explained repeatedly. The rest of the statement is true. :p


:lol:

#1183 alg7_munif

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:51

Hulkenberg incident was justified to get a penalty. Lewis has nowhere to go, he just had just overtook a Marussia and he was right behind the Caterham. Hulkenberg just dived into the inside, Lewis saw this and left him enough room. It was Hulkenberg's mistake that caused the contact, he just lost control of the rear of his car and slide right into Lewis.

#1184 Obi Offiah

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:09

Hulkenberg incident was justified to get a penalty. Lewis has nowhere to go, he just had just overtook a Marussia and he was right behind the Caterham. Hulkenberg just dived into the inside, Lewis saw this and left him enough room. It was Hulkenberg's mistake that caused the contact, he just lost control of the rear of his car and slide right into Lewis.

I think Maldonado received a similar penalty for doing the same to a Force India car (di Resta) in Hungary?

#1185 indian

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:49

A fitting finale to a gripping season.

Pretty good WDC win for Vettel. He didn't have it easy like he did last year. To win the title after being last at the end of Lap 1 in 2 of the last 3 races of the season (defending a small lead of 13) tells me that he fully deserves it.

One of Alonso's best seasons. Maximised his points by being in the right place at the right time. That's the only way to fight a WDC with a car that's not as good as the leading cars, atleast in qualy trim.

Superb comeback for Kimi. Finishing every race of the season is the icing on the cake. Provided great entertainment on track with wheel-to-wheel racing and his comments on the radio.

Honourable mention - Hamilton. Finished on 190 points after retiring from the lead thrice in the last third of the season. Surely begs the question - "What if?"

Thank you Schumi!

As for the race itself, would've loved to see Hulkenberg win. But then fairy tales don't always come true. The Force India was really fast in Hulkenberg's hands yesterday. He would've probably won without the SC.

Very good race win for Button in changing conditions - not really a surprise with Button. Was amazed how he and Hulkenberg were so fast on slicks when everyone else changed to inters.

Massa - played the supporting role to perfection. He has been impressive towards the end of the season. At the start of the season, I didn't really believe he will last the whole year at Ferrari.

Webber - Not sure what he was trying to do. I think he squeezed Vettel unnecessarily at the start and then attacked him at the restart as well. But then, he also let him past at one point in the race.

#1186 abc

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:32

I have to say it was unbelievable race from Vettel. I might think it was best ride this year by anybody.
He was quicker than McLaren boys in first laps while overtaking people. And in last 5 laps when conditions were toughest, he was one sec. quicker than anybody while the pressure had to be immense. All this with badly damaged car, hell of ride!!

You may disagree as you want but IMO he is the most complete current driver and Im happy he sort of confirmed that yesterday.

Also Im in the camp who think crash in lap 1 was not his mistake. To me he was all the time on racing line in that corner and far ahead, you cant park it there, its the responsibility of drivers behind not to torpedo his rear. He had unbelievable luck there though, all talk about fragility of RBR and it, of all cars, sustained such an impact :drunk:

Lastly I have to confess I had that funny feeling that everything was geared from outside towards Ferrari win WDC this year. I felt similarly in 2000 when Ferrari was long time without title and suddenly became very quick after being badly beaten in SPA. What a paranoid mind Im!! Thank god that Seb car survived that crash to dispel my doubts. Fixing results would be the worst thing be it in favour of anybody.

Congrats Seb.

And also very happy about Abu Dhabi race and Kimi managing win this year. Great season from my perspective. :)

#1187 F1ultimate

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:15

What's the piece of meteor rock in the trophies?

http://f1zoom.fx1.nl...b...3046&full=1

#1188 motorhead

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:19

Why's Felipe crying? Memories of 2008?


He is Brazilian, remember his fellow countryman Rubens doing the same every now and then too :cat:

#1189 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 14:00

Why's Felipe crying? Memories of 2008?

Sort of. This is why:

Look from 0:40 - "Sorry little fella. Take my hand and I will guide you to where the non-champions sit"

Edited by Desdirodeabike, 26 November 2012 - 14:00.


#1190 William Hunt

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 14:18

I was disgusted with how they put a safety car on the track for no good reason. Hamilton & co were 45 seconds behind Hülkenberg and Button. They just wanted to spice things up. And that penaty for Hülkenberg was just so that they could get Alonso on the podium. Disgusted about this race is how I feel. They stole a certain win from Force India. Besides: Hülkenberg would normally never have been able to collide with Lewis, had there been no safety car, Lewis should have been running +40 seconds behind Nico.

#1191 engel

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 14:22

What's the piece of meteor rock in the trophies?

http://f1zoom.fx1.nl...b...3046&full=1


it's a piece of rock from the pre-salt layer from the Petrobras rigs. More info here

#1192 mnmracer

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 14:37

I was disgusted with how they put a safety car on the track for no good reason. Hamilton & co were 45 seconds behind Hülkenberg and Button. They just wanted to spice things up. And that penaty for Hülkenberg was just so that they could get Alonso on the podium. Disgusted about this race is how I feel. They stole a certain win from Force India. Besides: Hülkenberg would normally never have been able to collide with Lewis, had there been no safety car, Lewis should have been running +40 seconds behind Nico.

You should look back and keep an eye out for all the debris scatter around the track.

#1193 William Hunt

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 14:47

You should look back and keep an eye out for all the debris scatter around the track.


I'm not the only one who feels this way:
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104605

#1194 F1ultimate

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 15:50

it's a piece of rock from the pre-salt layer from the Petrobras rigs. More info here


Thanks :up:

#1195 paulrobs

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:09

First time I've posted since before the race but wow what a race! Edge of the seat stuff for the whole race. So many twists and turns and so many incidents it was hard to keep up.

Couldn't believe that Vettel got underway again after being turned around in turn 4 and then taking a massive thump on the right rear tyre when facing the other way. Then the resulting damage and still making it to the end and having to overtake so many cars on the way. In a way, it was the weather conditions which helped him get back up because the damage may well have made him slower than the mid-field runnes in dry conditions. Think we saw this in the race, his pace wasn't brilliant during the dryer periods. He drove out of his skin though but I still don't know how that car made it to the end.

Shame about Hamilton being collected by Hulkenberg. It wasn't a racing incident, the blame was entirely on Hulkenberg because Hamilton left him room and he lost control but in very difficult conditions it has to be said. F1 needs to be very careful about dishing out penalties when overtakes go wrong though. We don't want a situation where drivers are reluctant to attempt an overtake because they'll get penalised if it doesn't quite come off. Hulkenberg saw a chance to win a GP and he was going for it all race.

Heart in mouth stuff when Raikkonen nearly hit the back of Vettel in trun 4 and he has to be commended for taking avoiding action. Pretty amusing when he found that gate closed too when he went off later in the race. Seems that he knew there was an entry back onto the track at that point having used it before many years ago. Fantastic speed of thought to do what he did and more than a little amusing to see it closed and he had to do a spin turm and rejoin where he went off. When I was watching it live I was thinking any time now we'll see parked cars as Kimi drives around a car park looking for a way back onto the circuit, it seemed like he was so far off it.

Great drive by Button in changeable conditions where he always seems to excel. Difficult to know how much of this was down to setup and how much was down to him but nonetheless a great drive. Real shame that Hulkenberg didn't finish the race to, he was certainly a contender for the win.

There were times when I was convinced Alonso was going to do it and times when Vettel was going to do it. The result seemed in doubt right up to the end becase to be honest I was expecting Vettel's car to let go at any time. I was concerned that it would let go on the start finish straight which would have been nasty. Then Di Resta has a big one in the same place and the whole thing kind of petered out as the race finished under a safety car.

Still can't believe, two days after the race, how incident packed that race was and I was so glad that Alonso/Ferrari or Vettel/RBR aren't my favourites. I just don't know how I'd have coped. So much drama and excitement from start to finish and boy did all those drivers earn their keep. I can't begin to understand how difficult it is to keep an F1 car on the track in constantly changing conditions like those. There were so many heroic saves as cars kept stepping out with hardly any warning and you have to hand it to these guys. What a race. Now. WTF am I going to do for the next 109 days....