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Vettel allegedly passing under yellows [Merged]


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#701 jstrains

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 19:11

I think it started all here :rotfl:

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#702 gm914

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 19:17

/thread.

#703 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 19:21

don't forget Santander... Both LdM and Fred have to answer to Botin as to WTF is wrong with the Red after spending $$$$$$$$$$ all these years with nothing to show for... now, they need even more $$$$$$ to rebuild the windtunnel as well. This way, they are building the case for Santander that they have done everything possible on their side but that darn big bad bull and the FIA spoiled the show for them by cheating, or facilitating cheating...

Santander VP (Cendoya) once said "... we paid a lot of attention to every penny, peseta, euro that we were spending. We don't give money away. We have given a lot of attention over the last 100 years to caring for the money of our shareholders. If we are investing in this agreement, and investing a sum of money in Ferrari, it is because we are sure that and I have all the figures it is going to be very profitable for our bank and for Ferrari."

The usual Ferrari PR, political theatrics and drama, this time, to calm Santander down a bit as Botin likely to hang LdM by the b**ls from the Pizza Tower...

This :up:
"Ferrari - you got some 'splaining to do".

#704 Crossmax

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 19:22

Ferrari just seem to be punching bags it seems. They can't be right.

When they didn't say anything, they are cowards.
When they enquirer about a clarification. Not even a protest, clarification I.e. just making sure the rules are being followed, they are bad losers.

:rolleyes:

No, they were acting professionally showed good sportsmanship. But then, samurai time!

#705 Crossmax

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 19:27

It took more than 500 posts, dozens of videos and more better resolution videos as well as re reading the rules several times to clarify this thing. Ferrari just wanted the FIA to be the official source to explain this.

So a company whose existence is very much associated with this sport cannot come to the same conclusion that a few randoms on a forum can?

Ferrari is not doing anything to change the results of the WDC so take a chill pill.

Yes, but not because they're taking the high ground, but because they can't - having turned the last stone and humilited themselves in the process. That much has become evident today.

#706 jstrains

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 19:31

I hope it does not end with a samurai harakiri

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#707 sniper80

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 19:53

Lets hope that Ferrari takes this to court! We need these controverses in F1 again!

#708 choyothe

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 20:32

Lets hope that Ferrari takes this to court! We need these controverses in F1 again!


Me too. Ferrari and Alonso should embarrass themselves a bit more, there really can't be too much in this case. :up:

#709 Crossmax

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 20:35

Me too. Ferrari and Alonso should embarrass themselves a bit more, there really can't be too much in this case. :up:

:clap: :up:

#710 ceradyne

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 20:41

Protest and asking clarification are all the same in that they want to change the result. Asking clarification is even worse because they themselves were not sure, and they had no evidence to become unsure in the first place. :stoned:


And this then?:

McLaren wants FIA to clarify legality of Mercedes DRS F-duct

Red Bull still seeking clarification about the legality of Mercedes's rear wing

Korean GP: Jenson Button and Sergio Perez want yellow rules clarified

#711 Juan Kerr

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 20:41

That has got to be the luckiest race that I've ever seen for one driver. Failed to avoid contact that should've normally finished his race, then lucked into the flashing yellow light luckily not matching their zone.

#712 choyothe

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 20:43

That has got to be the luckiest race that I've ever seen for one driver. Failed to avoid contact that should've normally finished his race, then lucked into the flashing yellow light luckily not matching their zone.


Having a 1st-lap incident = luck?

Passing under green flag = luck?

Live and learn I guess...

#713 BackOnTop

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 20:44

Yellow flag dispute 'a joke' - Ecclestone
http://en.espnf1.com...html?CMP=chrome

On Wednesday evening Ferrari asked for clarification from the FIA over an overtaking move Sebastian Vettel had appeared to make under yellow flags at the weekend. The FIA explained on Thursday that a green flag had in fact been waving before he made the move and therefore there was "no case to answer" over the incident and the move was in fact entirely legal.

"It's a shame because everything had gone so well," Ecclestone told the Daily Telegraph. "It was a super race, a super championship. Now everyone is talking about this. The problem is that no one knows what is going on."

"In the rules and regs normally you have to protest," the 82 year-old said. "They [Ferrari] missed that time. Then there is the fact that a green flag was shown, which nobody seems to dispute. It's a complete joke. What they [Ferrari] are saying in that letter is wrong. I don't think there needs to be any action taken. It's completely and utterly wrong."

Ferrari has not actually appealed the result, just asked for clarification as to why the move was legal. Nevertheless, Ecclestone was not impressed with the Italian team.

"Personally I think it's not really like Ferrari to do this. I think they badly wanted to win. But if you want to go back and see what Ferrari have done down the years … But nothing will happen. What can they do? Take civil action? Maybe. But the case is flawed before it starts. Nothing is going to happen."


:up: :up:
Alonso is crazy man! He stirs a lot of controversy and has the poor habit of disregarding his fellow competitors, including his own teammates.

How can any neutral F1 Fan respect a driver like Alonso, when he shows complete disrespect to other drivers. Some segment of his fans are crazy too. Utter disbelief at what they can't comprehend about this flag issue, even after numerous explanation that Vettel overtook legally.

Pat Fry, Ferrari's technical director, was absolutely adamant that all of Vettel's pass was reviewed, and that there was no way that Ferrari was thinking of protesting. But then, someone posts a video and calls it illegal, which is instantly super-slowed & proved as legal. Alonso in his haste to muck up this whole issue, goes on twitter and I have no doubt in my mind... forced Ferrari to issue a Clarification letter to the FIA.

Alonso needs to get a grip. His instigates & means reminds me of Lance Armstrong tactics over his team. Sorry Ferrari fans, but there is something seriously wrong with this team since Alonso joined, and I don't mean performance wise. This Yellow Flag Fiasco is just one of them over this 3 years. It seems like Alonso has Ferrari team in a state where the management has lost control over matters to him!

Pat Fry, a Mclaren 'type' guy, hasn't fallen for this Alonso obsession by the team. He was the only one who pointed out that the both Alonso & Massa were under-performing in Qualifiers in this car. Going by what Massa achieved in Austin & Brazil, he seems to be absolutely correct. Fry was also the one who was instant to dismiss this stupidity about flags.

Ferrari team & Alonso have finally lost the mental battle as well against RBR & Sebastian Vettel, a True Great Champion.

Edited by BackOnTop, 29 November 2012 - 20:49.


#714 w00dy

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 20:45

It's nice to have Vettel follow Schumacher in more ways than one. Deserves everything he gets.

#715 sawyer_si

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 20:47

The most important question is:

How much money shall i demand from Red Bull for making that green flag-gif ? Posted Image

Please tell me that you edited that green flag in. It would be absolutely epic :D You would also be doing the world a favor, because I believe that vast majority of fans wouldn't want Alonso and Ferrari to win 14 days after the race for something as stupid as yellow-flag overtake on his servant.

#716 TheF1BOB

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 20:48

Loving this Ferrari hating even though this whole fiasco started with some Spanish journalist.

Kudos to the idiots. :rotfl: :up:

#717 Diablobb81

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 20:51

Loving this Ferrari hating even though this whole fiasco started with some Spanish journalist.


And Ferrari had nothing better to do than to embarrass themselves with a public spectacle. Good for them.

#718 LoudHoward

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 20:55

This thread.

Got an image enhancer that can bitmap?!

#719 josepatches

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 20:55

Please tell me that you edited that green flag in. It would be absolutely epic :D You would also be doing the world a favor, because I believe that vast majority of fans wouldn't want Alonso and Ferrari to win 14 days after the race for something as stupid as yellow-flag overtake on his servant.


Yes,he was after the video I posted

post #364 if I'm not wrong



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#720 mnmracer

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 20:56

That has got to be the luckiest race that I've ever seen for one driver. Failed to avoid contact that should've normally finished his race, then lucked into the flashing yellow light luckily not matching their zone.

The same way he 'lucked' into a F1 driver after 15 months of great test work.
Or the way he 'lucked' into 3 consecutive championships.

Vettel detractors can complain all they want, like with Schumi, there comes a point where the numbers are so overwhelming, no one can claim luck and still be taken seriously.

#721 NadsatII

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 20:57

Wow: It seems that Alonso and Ferrari had nothing to do with this...

yeah... it seems that the now "unfamous" quote about miracles and correct laws or regarding rules had nothing to do with Vettel overtaking under yellow flags, but about a state of mind...

Funny...

If you try to make a research in Alonso's web site, his statement is that he feels so proud about the work of Ferrari and himself in 2012...

“¡Ha sido una temporada de 10! Si tuviese que repetir estas veinte carreras, no cambiaría nada de lo que ha hecho el equipo, o de lo que he hecho yo: ningún error, ningún problema mecánico, cero problemas en las paradas, cero errores de estrategia. Definitivamente no hemos perdido hoy el título, sino en Spa o en Suzuka. Quizás no hayamos terminado la temporada con el mayor número de puntos, pero sí nos hemos ganado muchas otras cosas, como el respeto de todo el mundo y de los aficionados, y los compañeros están de acuerdo en quién ha sido el mejor este año. Estoy orgulloso del trabajo que he hecho: el que hice la temporada pasada, cuando terminé cuarto, y el de ésta, que he luchado hasta el final”.

"It has been a season of 10 over 10 (meaning that 10 is the maximum from 0 to 10). If I had to repeat those twenty races, I wouldn't change anything about what the team was doing, nor about what I was doing. No mistakes, no mechanical issues, no problems in the pit stops, no errors in strategy. Definitivately, we haven't lost the tittle today, but in Spa or Suzuka. Maybe we haven't finished the season with the best points acount, but we have won in many other things, like respect from everybody and fans, and other team-mates who agree about who was the best one this year. I'm proud of the work that I have done, and the work I did last season, being fourth... and about this one... I was fighting till the end"

Alonso doesn't sound as a whinning boy who was trying to win a championship at any cost... I don't know if my translation into English is perfect, but his words in Spanish sound so sincere, honest and proud. He's not complaining at all about the final results. He's just saying, in Spanish: "It has been our best season for us all, and specially for me. No matter what happened in the end"... So all this Vettel fuss about yellow or green flags sounds strange... Alonso never doubted about the championship... As for Ferrari, the team just asked about a clarification, not a prostest...


And posted by Alonso himself last Sunday...

#722 BackOnTop

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:03

Loving this Ferrari hating even though this whole fiasco started with some Spanish journalist.

Kudos to the idiots. :rotfl: :up:

Another example of "Lance Armstrong" tactics... attack 'Reasoned Debate".

#723 LiJu914

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:03

Please tell me that you edited that green flag in. It would be absolutely epic :D You would also be doing the world a favor, because I believe that vast majority of fans wouldn't want Alonso and Ferrari to win 14 days after the race for something as stupid as yellow-flag overtake on his servant.


Of course i did. I also embellished the marshal with a nice moustache - he looks much cooler that way.  ;)






#724 redbarron

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:05

Another example of "Lance Armstrong" tactics... attack 'Reasoned Debate".


You call it "Reasoned Debate" because it fits your agenda. In reality your trolling!

#725 artista

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:07

Of course i did. I also embellished the marshal with a nice moustache - he looks much cooler that way. ;)

Seriously, in Spain, some people have been suggesting today that you (or they guy who posted the HD video in YouTube) had faked the flag.

#726 stuck-in-first-gear

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:10

Seriously, in Spain, some people have been suggesting today that you (or they guy who posted the HD video in YouTube) had faked the flag.


In Spain, they should worry about other things at the moment :rolleyes:

#727 DFV

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:14

Despite the expert analysis done by senior members it's hard to see how this is not a pass under yellow flags:



Check out from around 10:05 and then especially around 11:50 to 11:58

At 11:50 you can clearly see the flashing yellow light on the right hand side
At 11:53 Vettel pulls over to the left and the yellow light is still lit on his dashboard
At 11:54 Vettel has passed Vergne, still yellow light on the dashboard and no green flags being waved anywhere
At 11:55 Vettel drives past what looks like the marshalls stand on the right hand side but still with the yellow light on at his dashboard

So unless there is a marshall stand that isn't visible in this video, Vette passed under a yellow and NO DOUBT had a yellow light indication on his dashboard.

#728 Crossmax

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:17

Despite the expert analysis done by senior members it's hard to see how this is not a pass under yellow flags...

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#729 LiJu914

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:19

Seriously, in Spain, some people have been suggesting today that you (or they guy who posted the HD video in YouTube) had faked the flag.


The irony is: The original video, was from some spanish guy, who wanted to blame Vettel for the pass.

I just took some screencaps of the vid to make the gif.

#730 Crossmax

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:19

Wow: It seems that Alonso and Ferrari had nothing to do with this...

yeah... it seems that the now "unfamous" quote about miracles and correct laws or regarding rules had nothing to do with Vettel overtaking under yellow flags, but about a state of mind...

Based on what exactly?

#731 Ramses1348

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:19

So unless there is a marshall stand that isn't visible in this video, Vette passed under a yellow and NO DOUBT had a yellow light indication on his dashboard.


seriously, have you read this tread or anything that has been published on autosport? There was indeed a marshal that you can't see on the video because of the speed display. He was waving a green flag.

#732 DFV

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:25

Can anyone point out exactly where this marshall is placed.

See this video from 1:10 to 1:14 and tell me exactly where that extra marshall is...



#733 artista

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:26

The irony is: The original video, was from some spanish guy, who wanted to blame Vettel for the pass.

I just took some screencaps of the vid to make the gif.

I know, that's why I found it so funny (and didn't tell you before about it, I didn't want to upset you).

Actually, the first thing I did when you posted your gif was to watch the original YouTube video the Forocoches guy had posted here, to check there had been no manipulation from your part. Don't take it personally, I just like to check everything before I make any kind of decision. And yes, oh irony!, I found the video this guy had brought here to prove that Vettel had passed on yellows did, as a matter of fact, prove the opposite, that there was a marshal there on the left waiving the flag we were searching for. :drunk:


#734 rolf123

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:27

seriously, have you read this tread or anything that has been published on autosport? There was indeed a marshal that you can't see on the video because of the speed display. He was waving a green flag.


Get real man. You expect someone to read 18 pages of thread before posting? Nobody has time to do that.

#735 EvanRainer

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:31

This thread is the funniest thing I have seen in a very long time.

Re-posting on a a place like reddit is one thing...or even in a forum like this if you are search inept...

..but "discovering" and re-posting...the same video...every other page in the SAME thread...

#736 apoka

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:33

Get real man. You expect someone to read 18 pages of thread before posting? Nobody has time to do that.

It's sufficient to read the last part of the thread.

#737 LoudHoward

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:34

Can anyone point out exactly where this marshall is placed.

See this video from 1:10 to 1:14 and tell me exactly where that extra marshall is...[/url]


He's not between 1:10 and 1:14 I don't think, he's at pit exit.


#738 DFV

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:39

You are completely correct. There is a marshalls post at pit exit. Unable to see any flag waiving from the inboard camera though.

Vettels dashboard has the yellow light lit until after he passes the posts at the end of the straight though...

#739 Zava

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:43

You are completely correct. There is a marshalls post at pit exit. Unable to see any flag waiving from the inboard camera though.

Vettels dashboard has the yellow light lit until after he passes the posts at the end of the straight though...

because the ECU is connected to light flags, not to traditional flags, which are made of wood/plastic/iron and a bit of textil, and the dashboard lights are not mandatory to use, and their light is not law, just a guideline.

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#740 black magic

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:44

isnt the argument whether given the lateness of the hour whether the result should stand

staggered it wasnt recognised during the race given the importance and the potential with all the yellows and contender needing to make up considerable ground.

#741 LiJu914

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:44

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#742 Ramses1348

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:45

Get real man. You expect someone to read 18 pages of thread before posting? Nobody has time to do that.


the last page would have been enough... and I said OR autosport, the explanation is on the front page as well. But you are right, some people are not interested in the truth, just in what suits their agenda

#743 LoudHoward

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:48

staggered it wasnt recognised during the race



Well, presumably race control informed that marshal post to wave a green flag, then seeing a pass after that point, what did they have to recognise?

#744 sniper80

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:51

I just love the fact how all this gets spread into the media and takes away from Vettel's title :lol:
The fact that the guy is under discussions again says enough.
Vettel thinks he can come away with anything, he had 3 drivers + Schumacher to co-operate, and expects others to move out of his way as well (illegal pass on Grosjean in Abu Dhabi out of the circuit, ramming Senna out of the race in Brazil).
It's about time lady luck turns him her finger (pun intended) :drunk:

#745 Zava

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:52

I just love the fact how all this gets spread into the media and takes away from Vettel's title :lol:
The fact that the guy is under discussions again says enough.
Vettel thinks he can come away with anything, he had 3 drivers + Schumacher to co-operate, and expects others to move out of his way as well (illegal pass on Grosjean in Abu Dhabi out of the circuit, ramming Senna out of the race in Brazil).
It's about time lady luck turns him her finger (pun intended) :drunk:

especially Webber, who squeezed him at the start, making him lose places at T1. now that was a big help!

#746 EvanRainer

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:55

How dare Vettel expect backmarkers and much slower cars to not block him?

And these drivers, don't they know we hate Vettel and that they are supposed to block him?? Get on with the program already!

#747 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 22:10

Ferrari's allegations and request for a FIA explanation in this non-issue are understandable because the Maranello team wanted to desperately win the 2012 championship, at whatever cost, with whatever trick.
At the same time their action exposes their lack of sportsmanship, which they always claimed to have.

I wanted to buy my wife a Ferrari for Christmas but it will be Maserati instead.

#748 Mc_Silver

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 22:11

Ferrari's allegations and request for a FIA explanation in this non-issue are understandable because the Maranello team wanted to desperately win the 2012 championship, at whatever cost, with whatever trick.
At the same time their action exposes their lack of sportsmanship, which they always claimed to have.

I wanted to buy my wife a Ferrari for Christmas but it will be Maserati instead.


:up:

#749 apoka

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 22:13

I just love the fact how all this gets spread into the media and takes away from Vettel's title :lol:

It doesn't take away from the title since there is apparently no evidence that Vettel did violate the rules. People won't care much about it in the long term (and why should they remember a legal pass on a backmarker).

The fact that the guy is under discussions again says enough.

It says something, but what does it say and about whom? Bad journalism? Biased media? Penalty centric F1?

Vettel thinks he can come away with anything, he had 3 drivers + Schumacher to co-operate, and expects others to move out of his way as well (illegal pass on Grosjean in Abu Dhabi out of the circuit, ramming Senna out of the race in Brazil).

1. He gave the place back to Grosjean in Abu Dhabi. :rolleyes:
2. The Senna incident is most likely a racing incident according to most opinions I read.
3. You can check lap times before and after Vettel passed Schumacher in Brazil here: http://en.mclarenf-1...er#.ULfbXXeoI-o
Yes, Schumacher made it easy for him, but Vettel went from being 10 seconds behind him to 12 seconds in front of him in that short last stint.
4. I agree that having TR as RB friendly team on the grid is not a good thing for the sport.

It's about time lady luck turns him her finger (pun intended) :drunk:

Luck is a fortune beyond one's control. Considering both the Abu Dhabi and the Brazil weekends, Vettel was overall unlucky as he lost more than he gained from fortune's beyond his control. In other words: Had those races been "normal", he would have gained more points relative to Alonso. Actually, "luck" and "dominance" are amongst the most frequently misused words on the board in my opinion.


#750 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 22:17

I hope it does not end with a samurai harakiri

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Lol. Apparently its a film by Kobayashi :p