Jump to content


Photo

Good Luck/Bad Luck 2012


  • Please log in to reply
69 replies to this topic

Poll: Luck Scorecard (161 member(s) have cast votes)

Who had the BEST luck in 2012

  1. Vettel (58 votes [36.02%])

    Percentage of vote: 36.02%

  2. Webber (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. Button (6 votes [3.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.73%

  4. Hamilton (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. Alonso (81 votes [50.31%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.31%

  6. Massa (1 votes [0.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.62%

  7. Raikkonen (6 votes [3.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.73%

  8. Grosjean (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  9. Schumacher (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  10. Rosberg (1 votes [0.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.62%

  11. di Resta (1 votes [0.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.62%

  12. Hulkenberg (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  13. Perez (7 votes [4.35%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.35%

  14. Kobayashi (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  15. Ricciardo (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  16. Vergne (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  17. Maldonado (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  18. Senna (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  19. Kovalainen (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  20. Petrov (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Who had the WORST luck in 2012

  1. Vettel (1 votes [0.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.62%

  2. Webber (2 votes [1.24%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.24%

  3. Button (2 votes [1.24%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.24%

  4. Hamilton (116 votes [72.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 72.05%

  5. Alonso (6 votes [3.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.73%

  6. Massa (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Raikkonen (1 votes [0.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.62%

  8. Grosjean (1 votes [0.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.62%

  9. Schumacher (24 votes [14.91%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.91%

  10. Rosberg (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  11. di Resta (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  12. Hulkenberg (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  13. Perez (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  14. Kobayashi (3 votes [1.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.86%

  15. Ricciardo (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  16. Vergne (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  17. Maldonado (4 votes [2.48%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.48%

  18. Senna (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  19. Kovalainen (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  20. Petrov (1 votes [0.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.62%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 Number62

Number62
  • Member

  • 494 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:56

Here's the half year report: http://forums.autosp... luck scorecard

Not to be taken too seriously.

Advertisement

#2 SteF1an

SteF1an
  • Member

  • 846 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:58

Good luck: Alonso
Bad luck: Hamilton

#3 SUPRAF1

SUPRAF1
  • Member

  • 366 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:58

I voted it with luck defined as things that are completely out of a driver's control working for/against the driver, such as screw ups by rivals or team incompetence.

#4 BorkoF2012

BorkoF2012
  • Member

  • 954 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:59

Vettel/Hamilton

#5 Shiroo

Shiroo
  • Member

  • 4,012 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:03

Vettel with luck? Hardly. He had alternator issue, then started from pit lane etc.

most lucky driver was Alonso, no doubts.
shitload of bad luck Hamilton

#6 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 37,738 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:10

Best luck was Perez, managed to nab himself one of the primest spots on the grid before it went to ratshit for him.

Worst luck was Hamilton, should have had another three wins minimum.

#7 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:26

Alonso/Schumacher.

#8 Rob

Rob
  • Member

  • 8,273 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:28

The amount of bad luck that Hamilton had this year, you'd think it was Johnny Herbert in the car.

#9 tabovilla

tabovilla
  • Member

  • 72 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:34

Hamilton's luck this year has been one of the worst I've seen in F1

#10 Vesuvius

Vesuvius
  • Member

  • 6,101 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:35

Hamilton's luck this year has been one of the worst I've seen in F1


Yup, reminds a lot of Kimi's McLaren years.

#11 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 1,657 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:44

Vettel. Even when things looked bleak his RB proved indestructible and he had the luck of champions. One less Hamilton car failure and he missed the points to win. Starting at the back in which is normally a snoozefest he saw drivers hitting each other, banter noses off and scoring flat tires in the first lap. He hit a driver and a board and still it wasn't fatal. In Brazil he got hit twice, the others hit the showers and his car survived again.

Schumacher. When he had the car, the car or team wouldn't take him to the finish. When it was reliable, it was dead slow.

#12 mich

mich
  • Member

  • 109 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:52

Best luck was Perez, managed to nab himself one of the primest spots on the grid before it went to ratshit for him.

Worst luck was Hamilton, should have had another three wins minimum.


Perez got 3 podiums and a McLaren seat by risky strategies.

On the other hands, Kobayashi haven't find a next seat even though he showed almost same performance as Perez.
Additionally oil on his 3rd starting grid(China), 1st lap nutcased from 2nd grid(Belgium), many slow pitstops and no successful risky strategy...

#13 Creepy

Creepy
  • Member

  • 582 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:07

There was a moment in the season when Alonso could have been considered "lucky" but after getting retired by Grosjean and the massive luck his main WDC rival had at two moments where everything could have been lost (Yibbi Dabbi, Brazil) I wouldn't vote him as someone who was specially lucky this season.

Actually the likes of Raikkonen seems to have been way more able to collect from the luck, with a lot of retirements ahead of him and such. Not that I think he's been specially lucky either.

#14 stanga

stanga
  • Member

  • 1,124 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:08

Vettel. For Brazil and for Singapore.

Hamilton. No question.

#15 Zoetrope

Zoetrope
  • Member

  • 1,210 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:18

One less Hamilton car failure and he missed the points to win.


Or one less Vettel's car failure, when Alonso gained 7 points in Valencia. Unless you want to look at team failures as deserved for the drivers, since it's team sport, which is absolutely right approach as well.

Anyway, I voted Perez. Poor qualifying and wet conditions turned into his favour. Except for these 3 podiums all Perez achieved was 8th, 9th and 10th. Is it really enough for McLaren seat? I enjoyed Kobayashi this year more. Tell you what, even Di Resta, that recieves so much hate on these forums, would be better for McLaren.

#16 Nitropower

Nitropower
  • Member

  • 1,225 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:29

Vettel / Hamilton

Vettel, very rare to have race-ending incidents and survive as if nothing had happened several times. Didn't get a DNF because of someone else.

Hamilton, very difficult to have such a good car and skills and such an incompetent team.

#17 Pothead4Philosopher

Pothead4Philosopher
  • Member

  • 542 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:30

Simple really.

Alonso had the best luck by Macca and Red Bull having troubles enough to give him a shot at WDC.

Alonso had the worst luck by not quite getting there.

This is not rocket science folks.

#18 oligc94

oligc94
  • Member

  • 520 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:33

Best luck: a toss-up between Alonso and Vettel. I went for the former, because despite his great early season performances there was no way the he would have been challenging for the title had it not been for a healthy dose of luck.

Worst luck: Hamilton, no contest. I am certain that he would have been this year's champion had it not been for reliability and operational errors, and I actually think that he drove the best season of anybody.

#19 Pothead4Philosopher

Pothead4Philosopher
  • Member

  • 542 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:45

Many of you seem to attribute luck factor to reliability problems when it is the drivers own car breaking down. That's not bad luck -- that's an error some place down the assembly line or manufacturing process resulting in the mishap. Nothing to do with luck, but in quality control -- or lack thereof.

It is luck for the opponent who's car doesn't experience same fate.

Advertisement

#20 sopa

sopa
  • Member

  • 3,430 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:47

Luckiest. Raikkonen. No reliability problems, getting caught in collisions all season, finished all races. He is above Alonso in luck-list, because Alonso got taken out by Grosjean.

Bad luck. Obviously Hamilton.

Edited by sopa, 26 November 2012 - 10:48.


#21 Longtimefan

Longtimefan
  • Member

  • 3,170 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:50

Schumi has had far worse luck than Hammy this season.



#22 Peat

Peat
  • Member

  • 1,367 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:53

Posted Image

I'd say that was pretty lucky not to have ripped the tyre off the rim at the very very least.

#23 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 1,657 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:54

Many of you seem to attribute luck factor to reliability problems when it is the drivers own car breaking down. That's not bad luck -- that's an error some place down the assembly line or manufacturing process resulting in the mishap. Nothing to do with luck, but in quality control -- or lack thereof.

It is luck for the opponent who's car doesn't experience same fate.


You contradict yourself here.
1. Breakdowns are not due to bad luck.
2. The one not breaking down has luck.

@pic above. I rest my case. That whole RedBull is made of rubber to flex around crashes :p

Edited by SenorSjon, 26 November 2012 - 10:55.


#24 Pothead4Philosopher

Pothead4Philosopher
  • Member

  • 542 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:54

Luckiest. Raikkonen. No reliability problems, getting caught in collisions all season, finished all races. He is above Alonso in luck-list, because Alonso got taken out by Grosjean.

Bad luck. Obviously Hamilton.


Well, one could argue that it was Kimi's race craft that kept him out of trouble not a matter of luck (I try to be polite here) . Prime example of it was in the very last race when he avoided hitting Vettel.

As to reliability and luck, see my previous post.


#25 stanga

stanga
  • Member

  • 1,124 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:55

Many of you seem to attribute luck factor to reliability problems when it is the drivers own car breaking down. That's not bad luck -- that's an error some place down the assembly line or manufacturing process resulting in the mishap. Nothing to do with luck, but in quality control -- or lack thereof.

It is luck for the opponent who's car doesn't experience same fate.


So you are saying that fortune plays no part in whether that part finds its way onto your car or your teammate's machine?

#26 FirstWatt

FirstWatt
  • Member

  • 437 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:56

Vettel luck to have a fast car and reasonable reliability too.

Bad luck:
Ham (sometimes forcing the bad luck like in Valencia)
Alo for having a slow car in qualy

#27 Pothead4Philosopher

Pothead4Philosopher
  • Member

  • 542 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:58

You contradict yourself here.
1. Breakdowns are not due to bad luck.
2. The one not breaking down has luck.


Err,

If your opponent fails to finish for whatever reason -- and that opponent very likely would be ahead of you -- you got a lucky break.

If your car is unreliable -- your team has an issue with quality control/car design -- whatever. But not bad luck.

Isn't the difference obvious?


#28 sopa

sopa
  • Member

  • 3,430 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:58

Well, one could argue that it was Kimi's race craft that kept him out of trouble not a matter of luck (I try to be polite here) . Prime example of it was in the very last race when he avoided hitting Vettel.

As to reliability and luck, see my previous post.


Sometimes you are lucky and unlucky and you can do nothing about it. Spa start crash is a prime example of that. Even Kimi wouldn't have had the ability to escape this if he was at a wrong place. So yes, he was lucky that he never was at a wrong place at a wrong time.

Tp prove my point that Kimi hasn't the uber-skills of keeping drivers away from him. If you remember the start at Suzuka, Kimi couldn't avoid Alonso turning into him. He was actually fortunate to escape only with a slight damage to front wing.

#29 stanga

stanga
  • Member

  • 1,124 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:59

Posted Image

I'd say that was pretty lucky not to have ripped the tyre off the rim at the very very least.


That picture says it all.

If that had been Hamilton,all four wheels would have popped off and maybe one of them would have landed on his motorhome

#30 Niceone

Niceone
  • Member

  • 670 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:00

Vettel. Even when things looked bleak his RB proved indestructible and he had the luck of champions. One less Hamilton car failure and he missed the points to win. Starting at the back in which is normally a snoozefest he saw drivers hitting each other, banter noses off and scoring flat tires in the first lap. He hit a driver and a board and still it wasn't fatal. In Brazil he got hit twice, the others hit the showers and his car survived again.


People seem to notice only one side of the coin:
He was unlucky at Abu Dhabi (Had to start from back..and it wasn't his fault)
He was unlucky that he had those contacts at Brazil (again not his fault)

In both cases he needed good luck, because he already had bad luck.


It's like Monaco 2011: People were crying how lucky Vettel was with that red flag, but they all forgot that Vettel had been unlucky earlier (Bad pit stop, bad timing for SC earlier).

Edited by Niceone, 26 November 2012 - 11:02.


#31 Pothead4Philosopher

Pothead4Philosopher
  • Member

  • 542 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:03

So you are saying that fortune plays no part in whether that part finds its way onto your car or your teammate's machine?


Exactly, that is what I am saying.

F1 is a pinnacle of motor racing, they are pushing the limits etc.. etc.. -- meaning there will be issues with divers things, but that is not a question of luck. Is it now?

To me it is a question of engineering excellence when all goes well and room for improvement when not. Right?


#32 fdspd

fdspd
  • Member

  • 100 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:03

Hamilton had the worst luck without a doubt. If things had gone his way, he would've been like 2011 Vettel. Almost.

#33 XOR

XOR
  • Member

  • 83 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:05

Best luck: Raikkonen. 100% finishing record starting in the same races as Grosjean and Maldonado. Unbelievable!

Worst luck: hard to choose between Hamilton, Kobayashi and Schumacher.

Edited by XOR, 26 November 2012 - 11:08.


#34 Ravenak

Ravenak
  • Member

  • 939 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:05

Bad reliability is NOT bad luck, it's bad reliability.

Being crashed into IS bad luck.

Fernando Alonso was the unlucky one.

#35 Pits

Pits
  • Member

  • 415 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:07

Good Luck: Alonso
Bad Luck by far: Schumacher

#36 oligc94

oligc94
  • Member

  • 520 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:09

Schumi has had far worse luck than Hammy this season.


Maybe, but Schumacher's bad luck did not cost him the championship. Hamilton's probably did... :(

#37 stanga

stanga
  • Member

  • 1,124 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:09

Exactly, that is what I am saying.

F1 is a pinnacle of motor racing, they are pushing the limits etc.. etc.. -- meaning there will be issues with divers things, but that is not a question of luck. Is it now?

To me it is a question of engineering excellence when all goes well and room for improvement when not. Right?


Sorry, but that is not what you are saying at all. When they are manufacturing parts and a defective part passes underneath the QA radar and ends up on your car, not your teammate's, I think by most people's standards you would count yourself unlucky in that instance.

You are confusing process with outcome.

#38 Pothead4Philosopher

Pothead4Philosopher
  • Member

  • 542 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:12

Sometimes you are lucky and unlucky and you can do nothing about it. Spa start crash is a prime example of that. Even Kimi wouldn't have had the ability to escape this if he was at a wrong place. So yes, he was lucky that he never was at a wrong place at a wrong time.

Tp prove my point that Kimi hasn't the uber-skills of keeping drivers away from him. If you remember the start at Suzuka, Kimi couldn't avoid Alonso turning into him. He was actually fortunate to escape only with a slight damage to front wing.


I am only using Kimi as an example because you stated that he was the luckiest driver of the season. I fundamentally disagree. What I am not implying is that he is different from anyone else. If you are in the wrong place at the wrong time you will get taken out. Other times the driver can himself make the difference -- race craft, in other words. Kimi has that plenty, as have others, if not all of them....

To make it a question of lucky vs unlucky is to diminish the very skills of these guys who drive F1 cars to the limit.

For me that's racing, not matter of luck.

#39 fdspd

fdspd
  • Member

  • 100 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:12

Bad reliability is NOT bad luck, it's bad reliability.

Being crashed into IS bad luck.

Fernando Alonso was the unlucky one.


Perspective. That may be your definition of bad luck and I respect that. In my opinion, if I were a driver and something on my car failed, I would consider it bad luck. In Hamilton's case, the first half was plagued by operational errors, and second half by mechanical reliability. That, in my view, is quite unlucky as a driver.

Advertisement

#40 SennaJordan

SennaJordan
  • Member

  • 72 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:15

Posted Image

I'd say that was pretty lucky not to have ripped the tyre off the rim at the very very least.


Wow, didn't realized how bad it was seeing only the replays. So lucky... That car is a tank!

#41 Pothead4Philosopher

Pothead4Philosopher
  • Member

  • 542 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:16

Sorry, but that is not what you are saying at all. When they are manufacturing parts and a defective part passes underneath the QA radar and ends up on your car, not your teammate's, I think by most people's standards you would count yourself unlucky in that instance.

You are confusing process with outcome.


Well, I am so happy you think to know what I am saying.

I said what I said. If you want to call defective part of a car breaking down as being 'unlucky' feel free. I do not.

I think you are confusing manufacturing process with a game of chance.

#42 Ravenak

Ravenak
  • Member

  • 939 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:17

Perspective. That may be your definition of bad luck and I respect that. In my opinion, if I were a driver and something on my car failed, I would consider it bad luck. In Hamilton's case, the first half was plagued by operational errors, and second half by mechanical reliability. That, in my view, is quite unlucky as a driver.


Another way of putting it: to be F1 World Champion, you need to have a part of luck.

If Alonso had been lucky, he would be World Champion. If Hamilton had been lucky, he still wouldn't have been World Champion, because his team didn't do a good enough job (failed pit stops + reliability woes).

That's my point.

Edited by Ravenak, 26 November 2012 - 11:17.


#43 choyothe

choyothe
  • Member

  • 2,312 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:20

Easy. Alonso/Hamilton

#44 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 37,738 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:23

F1 is a pinnacle of motor racing, they are pushing the limits etc.. etc.. -- meaning there will be issues with divers things, but that is not a question of luck. Is it now?

But if the team makes an engineering mistake, that's the driver's bad luck, isn't it?

#45 r4mses

r4mses
  • Member

  • 1,100 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:28

Best luck was Perez, managed to nab himself one of the primest spots on the grid before it went to ratshit for him.

[...]


hehe, interesting point and quite true :)

#46 Zoetrope

Zoetrope
  • Member

  • 1,210 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:29

But if the team makes an engineering mistake, that's the driver's bad luck, isn't it?


HRT drivers are so unlucky :cry:

#47 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 37,738 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:30

HRT drivers are so unlucky :cry:

They would be if they deserved to be in F1.

#48 majkel

majkel
  • Member

  • 249 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:31

How can anyone claim that Alonso has been luckiest driver of the season is beyond me. The guy who had championship lead lost due to a car flying over his head, and race after that unlucky clash with another driver is the luckiest guy out there - not Perez or Hulk or Button or Raikonen.

Vettel same thing - alternator failure, start from pitlane, first lap crash in Brazil - all lucky.

There are other drivers than Alo, Hami and Vettel in the field.

Hami has been most unlucky guy this year - I'd agree with that, Schumi also but when I remember some of his crashes it kinda fades away.

Edited by majkel, 26 November 2012 - 11:32.


#49 Zoetrope

Zoetrope
  • Member

  • 1,210 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:31

If Alonso had been lucky, he would be World Champion. If Hamilton had been lucky, he still wouldn't have been World Champion, because his team didn't do a good enough job (failed pit stops + reliability woes).


:up: Maldonado, Hulk and Germany puncture were bad luck, engine stopping while you are leading is reliability.

I don't think Vettel was the most lucky guy this season, but either wasn't Alonso. When was he actually lucky? Malaysia cuz it rained?

#50 prty

prty
  • Member

  • 5,218 posts
  • Joined: April 05

Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:32

They would be if they deserved to be in F1.


Good thing that you are here to officially proclaim who deserves to be in F1 and who doesn't.