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Fernando Alonso - Part III


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#1 Buttoneer

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:29

Part I is here http://forums.autosp...howtopic=126741
Part II is here http://forums.autosp...howtopic=168659

There are threads to discuss the Ferrari car, and another to discuss the intra-team battle with Massa. If you wish to make a comment about a race, use the appropriate race or post race thread. If you wish to discuss any incident or another driver, please start a new thread if one has not already been started.

This thread is to discuss Fernando Alonso and his motorsport career only.

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#2 choyothe

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:35

Great season for the Spaniard. Finished in the position he is as a driver atm in the current field. :up:

#3 Creepy

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:37

6 minutes and someone already set 1/5 stars to rate the thread? I'll change that right now. :p


Btw, I cannot wait for March and see Alonso doing the formation lap for the first race of the season. Hope next season he entretain us as he did during this one, only that with a far better result (surely, it will! :D).

#4 Kucki

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:40

I was hoping Alonso would win this year. But after the last two Races and the last two Qualy performances I must say 2 titles suit him pretty well.

I would wish in a future situations like this last 2 weeks, he would be more aggressive.

#5 Ravenak

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:44

I was hoping Alonso would win this year. But after the last two Races and the last two Qualy performances I must say 2 titles suit him pretty well.

I would wish in a future situations like this last 2 weeks, he would be more aggressive.


He finished second and Vettel 6th, for crying out loud, what do you need more?

5 times on the podium in a row from far placed grid slots, open your eyes, man.

#6 wj_gibson

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:50

I was hoping Alonso would win this year. But after the last two Races and the last two Qualy performances I must say 2 titles suit him pretty well.

I would wish in a future situations like this last 2 weeks, he would be more aggressive.


What, you think there was something like an extra second a lap in that car or something???!!!

#7 rookie

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:02

I was hoping Alonso would win this year. But after the last two Races and the last two Qualy performances I must say 2 titles suit him pretty well.

I would wish in a future situations like this last 2 weeks, he would be more aggressive.

Seb was out qualified by webber twice in the last 3 races....see, means nothing doesn't it?

#8 SophieB

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:03

I think for his 'rough' exterior, inside he really needs that confirmation that he's doing well.

I think so too. I recall during the August break him posting to twitter about there seemed to be fewer than usual fan tweets and how he was sure this was his fault for not posting more himself. Everyone took the hint! It was funny but revealing and a little poignant - like a show pony a bit puzzled and slightly disappointed at not suddenly not receiving its expected sugar lump. I think it's sweet and very human - some people thrive on words of praise as if batteries and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

If they fail again last year he should forget the romantic crap and go to Mclaren. He is at serious risk at wasting the rest of his career driving red mules.

I'm a big fan of McLaren, Lewis and Fernando but I really, really doubt he'd ever go back to McLaren and from a selfish, McLaren-fan point of view, that saddens me. After all, I can't help but reflect that a few years ago, our driver lineup was the two best drivers in F1 with Hamilton and Alonso and now it's going to be Perez and Button. (No offence, any Button or Perez fans, they're good drivers and all but oh for what was and oh for what might have been...) No, I am confident that he'll stay at Ferrari. He's nailed his colours so firmly to the mast that I think he'd stay even if they started serving him up three-wheeled vans or milk floats to drive. It seems to be his true spiritual home.

Still, poor Fernando. Even in the immediate aftermath of defeat he was plainly concentrating on trying to lift the spirits of those around him in the team rather than giving in to what must have been crushing disappointment. He is a true leader. Nice touch spending the time on twitter to thank us fans too.

#9 Velocifer

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:03

Fantastic season, what a fighter Alonso is. :up: Really feel for him losing yet another one.

#10 Gintonious

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:09

To me he proved he is the best of the current crop, Vettel is of course a worth champion and I am not taking that away from him, but Alonso showed immense skill this year.

Hopefully next year he is even better.

#11 Infinityl

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:28

Great season for the Spaniard. Finished in the position he is as a driver atm in the current field. :up:


I dont think Hamilton is doing better than ALO at the moment.

#12 pusko

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:36

Grande Alonso...incredible season...he shouldn't be sad...he did everything he could.
PS: Eventhough Alonso is "the man" for me...I feel (in some ways) even more sorry for Lewis and his unlucky season of 2012.
These 2 + Vettel are a step above the others...

#13 Kucki

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 13:35

Seb was out qualified by webber twice in the last 3 races....see, means nothing doesn't it?



Vettel was supposed to manage his point lead and drive it home carefully. Alonso was supposed to attack. Different situations.

#14 Kucki

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 13:43

What, you think there was something like an extra second a lap in that car or something???!!!



He won his 2 Championships by beeing not uberfast or aggressive, but by beeing extremely consistant. He lost 2 Championships for the same reasons. He was too cautiously in Abu Dhabi in 2010+Austin12+Interlagos12. The title was his for the taking and Massa would have won the race if he wouldnt had to slow down and let Alonso by.

#15 i.am.cloned

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 13:43

To me he proved he is the best of the current crop, Vettel is of course a worth champion and I am not taking that away from him, but Alonso showed immense skill this year.

Hopefully next year he is even better.

I quite agree except I don't see much room for impovement. He was truly magical this year and I'm not even a fan. Hope ferrari works hard this winter so that next year he wouldn't need miracles to win.

#16 jstrains

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 14:00

At the end of the video the hug from Fernando
http://www.youtube.c...mp;feature=plcp

#17 Ravenak

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 14:35

At the end of the video the hug from Fernando
http://www.youtube.c...mp;feature=plcp


I'd also like to see the shot where he congratulates Newey, it's even more staggering.

#18 ViMaMo

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 14:38

Man, Im waiting for the day when Ferrari builds a super duper fast car. WDC and WCC Ferrari.

#19 Blackmadonna

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 14:51

"There's been situations during the season that make you think of these three points, but that's the sport. Even though I finished second in the points I have never had such respect and the affection from everybody in the paddock."

I guess Fernando can count himself lucky that the paddock does not consist of autosport forum members.

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#20 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 18:23

Gary Anderson on Fernando & Ferrari



Alonso and Ferrari

There are two championships in Formula 1 - the constructors' and the drivers'.
With Red Bull's two drivers, and their total commitment to development of the car, they certainly deserve to win constructors. But there is a sense that Vettel won the drivers' championship because the Red Bull was a better car than the Ferrari and was better developed.
That's OK, because that's what happens, but if Alonso had won the championship it would have been a true drivers' championship because it would have been in a car that wasn't worthy of it.
The Ferrari was really not very good at the start of the year but, in all the confusion the teams were having over how best to use the new Pirelli tyre, Alonso was able to pull some results out of it.
F1 2012 drivers' championship


He was very good at picking up the characteristics of the tyre. He just knew what to do with it.
The Pirellis don't like it when a driver tries to brake and turn in at the same time. Alonso picked that up in no time and adapted himself to it.
So he was able to pull out some really good results even though the car wasn't competitive.
Through Spain, Monaco and Canada, the Ferrari had a bit of an update that made it reasonable. That was really the package with which they should have started the season.
From there on, it was down to Ferrari to find the solutions to the car's problems.
It's strange that while Alonso's team-mate Felipe Massa was struggling with the car at the start of the year, he was able to drive it well at the end.
Massa's biggest problem is probably that he over-drives the car - so he ends up making a lot of mistakes.
But Ferrari's development direction through the season gave them a car Massa could drive and at that point Alonso fell back a bit, in terms of being able to use his talent to drag something out of the car.
That suggests that initially they had a car with very peaky downforce but that if you had a driver who could feel it - ie Alonso - it was quicker relative to the opposition.
It seems Ferrari made the car more driveable but lost out-and-out performance.
They need to worry about having made Massa into as good a driver as Alonso. I believe Alonso is better, so it's strange that is the case.
Fernando Alonso GP wins 2012
Malaysia
Europe
Germany
They need to regroup for next year and understand what happened, because for the last third of the season you'd have to say they probably threw away the championship by not developing the car enough when Red Bull were coming on strong.
Alonso got them into a position they should never have been in. They got to a point where he was bringing in decent points and had a 40-point lead in the championship and I think they stood back a bit.
They have been fiddling about with the rear wing since the Singapore Grand Prix, trying to fix an aerodynamic problem at the rear of the car.
The wing they ran in Brazil has been around for five races on and off and last weekend was the first time they'd actually raced it.
If it was good to race it in Brazil, it was good to race five races ago. It looks like they don't understand how to fix the problem they have, and are just poking around a bit.
Alonso did have some bad luck in crashing out in Japan and Belgium when it was not his fault.
But Vettel had two alternator failures in races. OK, they are things the team have influence over but he still lost as many races as Alonso.
Equally, Red Bull allow their drivers to race early in the season, whereas Ferrari have a defined number one. If you take Red Bull and give Vettel their big points from every race, Vettel thrashes Alonso comprehensively.
But Ferrari shouldn't go away from Brazil unhappy. They definitely have some good stuff on that car somewhere, even though there is a lot of stuff that's not good.



http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/20501817

Edited by CrucialXtreme, 26 November 2012 - 18:24.


#21 Bruce

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 20:35

I found that all very difficult.

See, I had accepted already that Alonso was NOT going to win the championship - but of course, this race yesterday re-ignited that hope, after Vettel spun... very difficult to watch.

Kudos to Vettel for getting it done, but I'm still really gutted to see Alonso lose by a mere three points... those three points say it all - in the car he was driving, he had no real right or expectation to finish so close...

#22 Kucki

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 20:36

Did Gary Anderson not see the last three races? Massa was faster then Alonso everytime and had to slow down and let Alonso pass. If Massa would have been free to drive he very likely would have won in Interlagos. The Championship was in this car. Alonso just did not attack the last three races and the last three Qualys he was not on top of his game.

Edited by Kucki, 26 November 2012 - 20:37.


#23 prty

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 21:43

Vettel was supposed to manage his point lead and drive it home carefully. Alonso was supposed to attack. Different situations.


Vettel was supposed to attack in order not to arrive with the championship open in the last race, where as we saw anything can happen.


#24 e34

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 21:44

However hard Kimi widows tried, I was never convinced that Ferrari deliberately tried to hinder Kimi's second season at Ferrari by developing the car to suit Massa's style of driving and taking it away from Kimi liking. A team cannot be that thick as to hinder, on purpose, its leading driver in order to help the other.

Then this year something remotely similar has happened in the last third of the championship, where Massa has been steadily improving, while Alonso stalled a bit. A part of it may be due to the neverending testing of new parts during FP1 and FP2, and to the obsession in getting more from the car than there was, instead of getting the last drop of what was in the car, but no more. Alonso, to some extent, has an habit of overdriving (and underachieving) the car when he is anxious and trying to get more than there is in the car. For example, in the first half of 2008, and in the first half of 2010.

But then, there may be something more. Without in season testing, who is in charge of steering the development of the car? Specifically, who guides the engineers in deciding which development paths to follow, which parts show more potential? Test drivers doing their work on the simulator? Who are those drivers at Ferrari? And which driving style/experience do they have?

I remember that it was said that Hamilton, at McLaren, insisted in having back de la Rosa after his stay at Sauber and Pirelli testing, because he could trust in de la Rosa's hints for set ups and development, after de la Rosa work at the simulator.

Of course, not being able to do real testing adds additional difficulties to the development race. Maybe Ferrari's simulator is not very good, Alonso does not work well at the simulator, or drivers doing simulator work at Ferrari have driving styles different to Alonso's.

#25 BigCHrome

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 22:16

Unfortunately for Alonso, he won't be competing for the championship next season. He has gotten the Curse of #3.

#26 stuck-in-first-gear

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 22:22

Well deserved second place for Fernando - again, a very consistent season even though the last bit of magic did not happen at the end.

He will challenge again next year :up:

#27 Arry2k

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 22:30

I found that all very difficult.

See, I had accepted already that Alonso was NOT going to win the championship - but of course, this race yesterday re-ignited that hope, after Vettel spun... very difficult to watch.

Kudos to Vettel for getting it done, but I'm still really gutted to see Alonso lose by a mere three points... those three points say it all - in the car he was driving, he had no real right or expectation to finish so close...

Yeah, I know what you mean. When watching Alonso clip Kimi's front wing and spinning off and out at Suzuka, I let out a sigh and felt that the championship had slipped away. Up to that point there was still enough of a margin that Alonso could cling onto and win, but after that I felt there was little to no hope.

Yeah Brazil was tough, there were those little moments where, for maybe a few laps, you could believe he was going to do it. Abu Dhabi was also tough in that respect - I had allowed myself to believe again only for the hope to be dashed.

Yep kudos to him, many lesser drivers would have crumbled after the T4 incident, but he kept his nerve and carried on.

#28 SCUDmissile

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 22:38

Unfortunately for Alonso, he won't be competing for the championship next season. He has gotten the Curse of #3.

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#29 Bruce

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 22:46

Did Gary Anderson not see the last three races? Massa was faster then Alonso everytime and had to slow down and let Alonso pass. If Massa would have been free to drive he very likely would have won in Interlagos. The Championship was in this car. Alonso just did not attack the last three races and the last three Qualys he was not on top of his game.


What a ridiculous comment.



#30 Bruce

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 22:47

Unfortunately for Alonso, he won't be competing for the championship next season. He has gotten the Curse of #3.


Curses? Rubbish/.

#31 George Costanza

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 23:02

Unfortunately for Alonso, he won't be competing for the championship next season. He has gotten the Curse of #3.



lol. That did not stop Schu in 2000.

#32 TurboF1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:18

I will give Fernando this, this year, he achieved the impossible. No, not for simply putting together an incredible title campaign with the 3rd (at best!) fastest car. He turned a lifelong Ferrari hater into a supporter, if only temporarily. I think, wholeheartedly, that he deserved this WDC way more than Vettel did. Not that Sebastian didnt drive very well for most of the year, he did, but Fernandos performances considering his machinery have been stellar just about every race weekend.



#33 Jimisgod

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:51

Poor guy. Had he won, it would have potentially been the greatest WDC ever. 20 races with what was not the fastest car in more than 2 or 3 of them, and he is still only 3 points off the title.

Anyone who thinks Vettel is that good is kidding themselves.

#34 Nitropower

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:09

Alonso just needs Ferrari make the final step forward with their machine and produce a championship winning car rather than just a decent car. It needn't be dominant it only need to be able to qualify frequently in the first two rows and not be over 0.5 sec off the pace. That'd be much much more than they've done in the last few years. Ferrari need to get their acts together, fixed their windtunnel for once in the heck and for all, and design something that works fine in the most frequent kind of circuits in the calendar. Alonso is not a God but he does not need a dominant car to win the title. He just needs to be closer to his rivals in terms of car performance.

#35 Nitropower

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:11

Poor guy. Had he won, it would have potentially been the greatest WDC ever. 20 races with what was not the fastest car in more than 2 or 3 of them, and he is still only 3 points off the title.

Anyone who thinks Vettel is that good is kidding themselves.

Newey is that good. Vettel is decent but put Hamilton, Button, Alonso or any top driver in a Red Bull and you'll notice the difference: they all would dominate. But this sport is like this and we have to deal with it.

Now give Vettel a F2012 and see what happens. Wait.. you don't need to do that, just give him a first half of the season RB8.

Edited by Nitropower, 27 November 2012 - 03:14.


#36 BigCHrome

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:01

Yes, Schumi did it over 12 years ago, but since then everyone whose had #3 has had very disappointing seasons.

#37 jstrains

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:09

But everyone else is not a Ferrari. It is time for the first title with the red ones :p

#38 George Costanza

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:24

I will give Fernando this, this year, he achieved the impossible. No, not for simply putting together an incredible title campaign with the 3rd (at best!) fastest car. He turned a lifelong Ferrari hater into a supporter, if only temporarily. I think, wholeheartedly, that he deserved this WDC way more than Vettel did. Not that Sebastian didnt drive very well for most of the year, he did, but Fernandos performances considering his machinery have been stellar just about every race weekend.


Kind of like Schumacher in '97 season, where Williams and Benetton were clearly faster than the '97 Ferrari.

Alonso was just like that.

#39 seahawk

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:07

First off all this crap car came second in the WCC, so I see nothing special in Alonso coming in second in the WDC, it has to be expected of him. Secondly Massa was faster in the last races. So I do not think it was such an outstanding year for Fernando.

Edited by seahawk, 27 November 2012 - 07:09.


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#40 Ravenak

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:13

It only came second because it was more reliable than the McLaren, not because it was the 2nd fastest car.

#41 K-One

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:35

Despite massive back-up from the team, Massa being clear nr2, competitive car etc. Alonso has given zero Championships for the Scuderia. What was also puzzling that he was slower than Massa in last races when it mattered.

Also blaming Spa and Japan is sour grapes. You make your own luck eh?

#42 Creepy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:08

Despite massive back-up from the team, Massa being clear nr2, competitive car etc. Alonso has given zero Championships for the Scuderia. What was also puzzling that he was slower than Massa in last races when it mattered.

Also blaming Spa and Japan is sour grapes. You make your own luck eh?


You make your own luck? Funny how we ignore circumstances when we talk about the drivers we don't like eh? :rolleyes:

Edited by Creepy, 27 November 2012 - 08:11.


#43 e34

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:37

Despite massive back-up from the team, Massa being clear nr2, competitive car etc. Alonso has given zero Championships for the Scuderia. What was also puzzling that he was slower than Massa in last races when it mattered.

Also blaming Spa and Japan is sour grapes. You make your own luck eh?


Sour grapes? Do you have the slightest idea about what does that phrase mean?

One could say that a driver who is kicked out of a team, then says that he does not like the competition, that he does not enjoy himself and that he is disgusted with PR stuff, then reappears at another motorsport category in a full Don Quixote outfit, doing PR stuff for the most PR company in the world, then says that he would only consider coming back to the first category in a top team, and two years later, rejoins his original motorsport category at what, at that moment, could be considered fifth team at best, for a fifth of his previous asking salary... well, one could argue that that hypothetical driver was "pretending not to care for something one wants, but does not or cannot have.*

By the way, I am convinced that Kimi always does what he wants. Any resemblance between a real driver and the hypothetical driver of my example is just a coincidence.

*From wikipedia

The phrase sour grapes is an expression originating from "The Fox and the Grapes," one of Aesop's Fables. It refers to pretending not to care for something one wants, but does not or cannot have.



#44 BackOnTop

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:49

Sour grapes? Do you have the slightest idea about what does that phrase mean?

One could say that a driver who is kicked out of a team, then says that he does not like the competition, that he does not enjoy himself and that he is disgusted with PR stuff, then reappears at another motorsport category in a full Don Quixote outfit, doing PR stuff for the most PR company in the world, then says that he would only consider coming back to the first category in a top team, and two years later, rejoins his original motorsport category at what, at that moment, could be considered fifth team at best, for a fifth of his previous asking salary... well, one could argue that that hypothetical driver was "pretending not to care for something one wants, but does not or cannot have.*

By the way, I am convinced that Kimi always does what he wants. Any resemblance between a real driver and the hypothetical driver of my example is just a coincidence.

*From wikipedia

Nice try at taking a swipe at Ferrari's Last World Champion!!

By the way, that "hypothetical" driver could go rally, return & take a reduced salary to continue doing the stuff he loves was only possible because a certain driver made sure his BANK paid a MASSIVE $18 million approx not to drive for Ferrari, or any other Formula 1 team. So he chose to get away. Good on him for trying out all forms of motorsport.... because he can.

Also, that hypothetical driver is the biggest winner of the 2012 season, after Vettel of course. If someone is not careful, we all know who will be "kicked out" next in favour of a triple world champion.

Edited by BackOnTop, 27 November 2012 - 10:00.


#45 velgajski1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:00

Poor guy. Had he won, it would have potentially been the greatest WDC ever. 20 races with what was not the fastest car in more than 2 or 3 of them, and he is still only 3 points off the title.

Anyone who thinks Vettel is that good is kidding themselves.


I think Vettel is better actually, and he showed it on track. Vettel has incredible skill of being best when it matters the most. Same cannot be said about Alonso.

#46 e34

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:27

Nice try at taking a swipe at Ferrari's Last World Champion!!

By the way, that "hypothetical" driver could go rally, return & take a reduced salary to continue doing the stuff he loves was only possible because a certain driver made sure his BANK paid a MASSIVE $18 million approx not to drive for Ferrari, or any other Formula 1 team. So he chose to get away. Good on him for trying out all forms of motorsport.... because he can.

Also, that hypothetical driver is the biggest winner of the 2012 season, after Vettel of course. If someone is not careful, we all know who will be "kicked out" next in favour of a triple world champion.


Of course Kimi is one of the biggest winners of 2012.

But it was not me the one (one thousand, in this forum) who decided to use a phrase that has a meaning (pretending you don't want something you don't or can't have) that does not, in any sense, apply to Alonso when he says that the championship was lost not on Brazil, but in Japan (I would not have said it, but then Vettel also talked about the dirty tricks, and forgot that he got off almost scott free from that one) and with the Grosjean incident. You could say that he does no accept his own responsibility in losing points at other GPs with the wrong tyre decision, that he needs to pin his shortcomings on other people or whatever.

But you can't say that he is acting as if he didn't care for the championship. And that is what "sour grapes" mean.

But if you really want another example of sour grapes and F1, so that you can understand it properly, one could say that a group of people that, up to a point in time, haven't had any interest in racing in the woods, suddenly deciding that their up to then favourite motorsport category is no longer interesting, then changing in masse to the newly discovered discipline, which is amazing, because F1 is just business and mean, then getting disenchanted with the woods, getting briefly excited about racing vans, and suddenly recovering their passion about F1, while in the process acting as if any of their previous favourite disciplines were no longer of any interest for them, well, one could say that that is as near as you can get to the "sour grapes" fable.

Or you could say that they are forever moving the goalposts so any wild shot by they loved cool one is a score. And, of course, that could have comedy value, but giving serious consideration to that kind of behaviour is really hard.

#47 Robertsf

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:48

Nice that it was Kimi Räikkönens victory in Abu Dhabi that took away those necessary points from the Alonso/ferrari championship this year. There is some justice in this world!

#48 Creepy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:55

Nice that it was Kimi Räikkönens victory in Abu Dhabi that took away those necessary points from the Alonso/ferrari championship this year. There is some justice in this world!


Oh boy, here we go... :rolleyes:

#49 ASFA2011

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 13:32

I think Newey is better actually, and he showed it on track. Newey has incredible skill of being best when it matters the most. Same cannot be said about Alonso.


Fixed it for you

#50 jstrains

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 14:29

Fernando Alonso makes his first tattoo