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Fernando Alonso - Part III


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#451 mey3059

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 15:52

It does, when in the opinion of the vast majority of the sport's professionals, he is RATED THE BEST DRIVER! You may not like or want to believe this consensus opinion, but they have absolutely answered the question by VOTING ALONSO THE BEST. Unless you don't believe elections represent the will and belief of the voters. :confused:


Do you know why Kimi got most of the best driver votes in 2005, even when Alonso accomplished the feat of being the youngest champion and ended years of Schumi dominance.Kimi did a wonderful job that year, but so did Alonso! Also everyone would agree that Kimi had the faster car.

2005 - peoples always saw Kimi enduring unfortunate mechanical troubles
2012 - there is always some report about how bad Ferrari is / how good Alonso is.

voting is always like- "I need to justify my vote , so I go by whatever information is easily available , I can't be bothered to spend time on it" ( See why election campaigning is important even for the best leaders in the world! )

Edit: I see Holdalls explained it much better :up

Edited by mey3059, 26 December 2012 - 16:01.


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#452 yr

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 15:58

i found info in one magazine that alonso set a new record for podiums without starting from the top 3 position...10 times it happened....previous best alain prost 9 times in 1986. (in fewer races ofcourse)


Yeah, that Ferraris starting system was on its own league, both Alonso and Massa had excellent starts throughout the year, easily jumping from somewhere around 5-8 to 2-4 in first few corners in every race. :up:

#453 PoleMan

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 16:07

I never said Alonso was shattered.

Just his dream of being considered the top driver of his generation, at least at this point in time. And considering the age and achievements of his primary nemesis, he surely realizes that in all likely hood he will be relegated to "second best" status.

Vettel has had an AMAZING three years, and I believe will go onto be one of F1's greatest-ever pilots. He has UNBELIEVABLE STATISTICS! So does the GREAT Michael Schumacher. You put a lot of weight on statistics, and that is fine. Many others do that. But Ayrton Senna, who has less than half the victories and championships of Michael, is CONSISTENTLY RATED THE BEST OF ALL TIME!

I mention that because you talk-- knowingly-- of Alonso being relegated to "second best status," at the same time professionals in the sport, not just the TPs, but journalists at the leading and most respected racing outlets, have named him the best driver, and they have done so TWO out the last 3 years. I fully understand that FOR YOU, he is relegated to a lower tier, but, ASTONISHINGLY, the F1 professionals disagree with you. Go figure? :lol:

#454 Winter98

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 16:15

Vettel has had an AMAZING three years, and I believe will go onto be one of F1's greatest-ever pilots. He has UNBELIEVABLE STATISTICS! So does the GREAT Michael Schumacher. You put a lot of weight on statistics, and that is fine. Many others do that. But Ayrton Senna, who has less than half the victories and championships of Michael, is CONSISTENTLY RATED THE BEST OF ALL TIME!

I mention that because you talk-- knowingly-- of Alonso being relegated to "second best status," at the same time professionals in the sport, not just the TPs, but journalists at the leading and most respected racing outlets, have named him the best driver, and they have done so TWO out the last 3 years. I fully understand that FOR YOU, he is relegated to a lower tier, but, ASTONISHINGLY, the F1 professionals disagree with you. Go figure? :lol:


Some experts rate Vettel higher:

"Sebastian Vettel extended his domination of the Castrol EDGE Rankings after dragging his battered Red Bull to a third straight Formula 1 world championship crown in a wild Brazil finale.

The German has now held the No.1 spot for 140 consecutive weeks."

From Castrol Edge Rankings

BTW, I notice you haven't disagreed about Alonso's contemptible behaviour. Are we in agreement on that?

Edited by Winter98, 26 December 2012 - 16:16.


#455 PoleMan

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 16:20

Do you know why Kimi got most of the best driver votes in 2005, even when Alonso accomplished the feat of being the youngest champion and ended years of Schumi dominance.Kimi did a wonderful job that year, but so did Alonso! Also everyone would agree that Kimi had the faster car.

2005 - peoples always saw Kimi enduring unfortunate mechanical troubles
2012 - there is always some report about how bad Ferrari is / how good Alonso is.

voting is always like- "I need to justify my vote , so I go by whatever information is easily available , I can't be bothered to spend time on it" ( See why election campaigning is important even for the best leaders in the world! )

Edit: I see Holdalls explained it much better :up

OK. In a BLIND VOTE, the TPs feel the need to conform somehow to the powers of persuasion and conventional wisdom?? Most of the independent F1 media also suffer from the same conundrum as the TPs. But YOU and those with YOUR VIEWS, are able to MIGHTILY RESIST that urge...somehow. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I have a much simpler explanation. Yours is a minority view, so you try to marginalize the views of the majority. Good luck with that!  ;)

Edited by PoleMan, 26 December 2012 - 16:27.


#456 ASFA2011

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 16:23

What is it with all this post trying to diminish the fact that Alonso was picked up as the best of 2012 , you guys don't like it ? Too bad , what are you guys trying to achieve ? Convince all Alonso fans that the TP's were wrong picking Alonso as the best ? That you will never acomplish , I'll bet you that if the TP's would have pick Vettel as the best then you wouldn't be bitching about and will be singing a different tune and how the TPs are the right people to judge that , go figure .

#457 Showty

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 16:38

Some experts rate Vettel higher:

"Sebastian Vettel extended his domination of the Castrol EDGE Rankings after dragging his battered Red Bull to a third straight Formula 1 world championship crown in a wild Brazil finale.

The German has now held the No.1 spot for 140 consecutive weeks."

From Castrol Edge Rankings

BTW, I notice you haven't disagreed about Alonso's contemptible behaviour. Are we in agreement on that?


These same experts rate Mark Webber higher than Raikkonen, i guess u agree too.

Anyway the castrol ranking is not what i call rating, it´s a scoring system, pointless here when the debate is that even without winning the WDC Alonso is rated as a better driver than Vettel.




#458 Winter98

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 16:42

These same experts rate Mark Webber higher than Raikkonen, i guess u agree too.


The Castrol rankings aren't "You're only as good as your last race." Kimi's standing was hurt by the fact that he was out of F1 for a couple of years.


#459 Winter98

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 16:45

Anyway the castrol ranking is not what i call rating, it´s a scoring system, pointless here when the debate is that even without winning the WDC Alonso is rated as a better driver than Vettel.


And I showed that some experts rate Vettel higher.



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#460 mey3059

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 17:08

OK. In a BLIND VOTE, the TPs feel the need to conform somehow to the powers of persuasion and conventional wisdom?? Most of the independent F1 media also suffer from the same conundrum as the TPs. But YOU and those with YOUR VIEWS, are able to MIGHTILY RESIST that urge...somehow. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I have a much simpler explanation. Yours is a minority view, so you try to marginalize the views of the majority. Good luck with that! ;)


I am sorry, did I ever mention in this thread that the TPs are wrong ? Its simple, i cannot say anybody's 'opinion' is wrong, because its an opinion. Everybody has a right to express . ( I can disagree though , the disagreement is my view/opinion )
I only wish to convey that they aren't the ultimate authority .
Tell you what , forget my post , go with boldhakkas , that's what I wanted to say in the first place

And as for your explanation ... I dislike Alonso, Hamilton, so I am biased . Maybe I have an agenda , maybe not . But , I can assure you that I am not trying to ' marginalize the view of the majority', because quite frankly I don't care what people think( I hardly post, but sometimes I feel the urge to post :) )

Hey , because people like me are in the minority we bring that point . If I had no dislike towards Alonso I wouldn't have scrutinized his drives this year. I would have gone with the public perception and given my vote for him as well( & that is the whole point, we will never bother ourselves too much with stuff we needn't be bothered with , we all have our busy lives!)

#461 mey3059

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 17:12

What is it with all this post trying to diminish the fact that Alonso was picked up as the best of 2012 , you guys don't like it ? Too bad , what are you guys trying to achieve ? Convince all Alonso fans that the TP's were wrong picking Alonso as the best ? That you will never acomplish , I'll bet you that if the TP's would have pick Vettel as the best then you wouldn't be bitching about and will be singing a different tune and how the TPs are the right people to judge that , go figure ... guys know that you are just trolling on this thread

Oh I just realized that, sorry!... I won't post anymore about all the rating stuff.

I am sure Alonso will keep up his performance next season. He is a top class competitor .

#462 showtime

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 17:17

And I showed that some experts rate Vettel higher.


Castrol rankings are based only on results, no experts rating.

#463 PoleMan

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 17:43

I am sorry, did I ever mention in this thread that the TPs are wrong ? Its simple, i cannot say anybody's 'opinion' is wrong, because its an opinion. Everybody has a right to express . ( I can disagree though , the disagreement is my view/opinion )
I only wish to convey that they aren't the ultimate authority .
Tell you what , forget my post , go with boldhakkas , that's what I wanted to say in the first place

And as for your explanation ... I dislike Alonso, Hamilton, so I am biased . Maybe I have an agenda , maybe not . But , I can assure you that I am not trying to ' marginalize the view of the majority', because quite frankly I don't care what people think( I hardly post, but sometimes I feel the urge to post :) )

Hey , because people like me are in the minority we bring that point . If I had no dislike towards Alonso I wouldn't have scrutinized his drives this year. I would have gone with the public perception and given my vote for him as well( & that is the whole point, we will never bother ourselves too much with stuff we needn't be bothered with , we all have our busy lives!)


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: It really does keep getting better!

Ok. So YOU were DILIGENT enough to do your research and "scrutinize" Alonso's driving record, but the guys who are accomplished enough to make it to the Pinnacle of motorsports, overseeing multi-million dollar F1 race teams or writing about this premiere motorsport, couldn't be bothered to properly evaluate what they were being asked to consider?? :lol: I guess they got to where they are by being either lazy or incompetent. They really should exhibit the work ethic that you've displayed -- not following the herd, but actually thinking for themselves and doing their own, bloody research! :evil: Then they might finally amount to something in F1, and people might actually consider them experts and publish or read their views! :kiss:

#464 Winter98

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 18:30

Castrol rankings are based only on results, no experts rating.


According to Castrol:

"The system looks beyond race wins, taking into account every measurable achievement - overtaking moves, fastest laps or stage times, qualifying performances, and so on."


I find such a system far more reliable than opinions, which are always going to be clouded by biases, both conscience and sub-conscience, especially in a sport like F1, which is so political.

Castrol incorporates all the factors people use in their debates. How handy.

Edited by Winter98, 26 December 2012 - 18:33.


#465 mey3059

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 19:54

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: It really does keep getting better!

Ok. So YOU were DILIGENT enough to do your research and "scrutinize" Alonso's driving record, but the guys who are accomplished enough to make it to the Pinnacle of motorsports, overseeing multi-million dollar F1 race teams or writing about this premiere motorsport, couldn't be bothered to properly evaluate what they were being asked to consider?? :lol: I guess they got to where they are by being either lazy or incompetent. They really should exhibit the work ethic that you've displayed -- not following the herd, but actually thinking for themselves and doing their own, bloody research! :evil: Then they might finally amount to something in F1, and people might actually consider them experts and publish or read their views! :kiss:

Oh boy , don't be condescending .

In a season where his car was nowhere near racing winning pace he brought regular podiums. That's a fact.


When you look at race results, you see Alonso on the podium. It would imply brilliant performance , but how closely will you analyze each race stint and determine how he performed relative to his competitors . I doubt anybody will bother if they are not interested in Alonso.

So,
Are you suggesting that the TPs researched laptimes and performance of every driver out there every race of the year? Wow!

As for the journalists. Its their job to do the research, but if they were to analyse every driver out there, it would have taken a lot more time to come up with a list.

There can simply be no fair analysis unless they are all provided with equal equipmen( in which case the research becomes easy).



I said ( and you highlighted )
He took calculated risks and gave it everything . ( you could see the car slipping and sliding in some of the races). But that doesn't make him a better driver than some others ( unless you can say the car , the conditions , everything was Same for everybody), he did what he had to do !

You said
It does, when in the opinion of the vast majority of the sport's professionals, he is RATED THE BEST DRIVER! You may not like or want to believe this consensus opinion, but they have absolutely answered the question by VOTING ALONSO THE BEST. Unless you don't believe elections represent the will and belief of the voters.

I said
voting is always like- "I need to justify my vote , so I go by whatever information is easily available , I can't be bothered to spend time on it" ( See why election campaigning is important even for the best leaders in the world! )

You said

OK. In a BLIND VOTE, the TPs feel the need to conform somehow to the powers of persuasion and conventional wisdom?? Most of the independent F1 media also suffer from the same conundrum as the TPs. But YOU and those with YOUR VIEWS, are able to MIGHTILY RESIST that urge...somehow.

I have a much simpler explanation. Yours is a minority view, so you try to marginalize the views of the majority. Good luck with that!

I said ( and you highlighted )

Hey , because people like me are in the minority we bring that point . If I had no dislike towards Alonso I wouldn't have scrutinized his drives this year. I would have gone with the public perception and given my vote for him as well( & that is the whole point, we will never bother ourselves too much with stuff we needn't be bothered with , we all have our busy lives!)


Basically, what we are discussing is Alonso is Voted best driver by almost all of the F1 circus . Right ?

"Unless you don't believe elections represent the will and belief of the voters. "

All I am saying is, in all elections Voters are influenced by the campaigning before unless you have a clear favourite. So it will never be an accurate judge of character/ability to the degree you are trying to project here .

If you can prove that all of your TPs did their research like the journos , it would give their votes more credibility because they are better equipped than the journos. But I genuinely doubt they did.
As for the journos, they are supposed to be not biased, but they are human too. If we have an absolutely top class research , it will show in the reasoning for each rating.

For the record, I don't see a problem with James Allens list . I read it, I found nothing wrong with his reasoning ( but most people will think that James Allen research is biased :) )
Clear ?
Rest is immaterial








#466 Winter98

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 21:06

All I am saying is, in all elections Voters are influenced by the campaigning before unless you have a clear favourite. So it will never be an accurate judge of character/ability to the degree you are trying to project here .


Agreed. Personal biases are going to creep in, even if a person in trying to be completely unbiased.

I'm guessing a lot of the posters who are vehemently supporting the correctness of the TPs in this case, have just as vehemently disagreed with them on other occasions.



#467 PoleMan

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 22:05

Oh boy , don't be condescending .

In a season where his car was nowhere near racing winning pace he brought regular podiums. That's a fact.


When you look at race results, you see Alonso on the podium. It would imply brilliant performance , but how closely will you analyze each race stint and determine how he performed relative to his competitors . I doubt anybody will bother if they are not interested in Alonso.

So,
Are you suggesting that the TPs researched laptimes and performance of every driver out there every race of the year? Wow!

As for the journalists. Its their job to do the research, but if they were to analyse every driver out there, it would have taken a lot more time to come up with a list.

There can simply be no fair analysis unless they are all provided with equal equipmen( in which case the research becomes easy).





Basically, what we are discussing is Alonso is Voted best driver by almost all of the F1 circus . Right ?

"Unless you don't believe elections represent the will and belief of the voters. "

All I am saying is, in all elections Voters are influenced by the campaigning before unless you have a clear favourite. So it will never be an accurate judge of character/ability to the degree you are trying to project here .

If you can prove that all of your TPs did their research like the journos , it would give their votes more credibility because they are better equipped than the journos. But I genuinely doubt they did.
As for the journos, they are supposed to be not biased, but they are human too. If we have an absolutely top class research , it will show in the reasoning for each rating.

For the record, I don't see a problem with James Allens list . I read it, I found nothing wrong with his reasoning ( but most people will think that James Allen research is biased :) )
Clear ?
Rest is immaterial


I'm sorry, but I do have to laugh. :lol: It seems clear that you and apparently the one who is still frozen in the Winter of 1998 are absolutists. I'm not sure how many things in life can be proven in absolute and micro-granular detail. :D To your credit, you acknowledge your own bias against Alonso, but you then project that onto others whose opinion differs from yours. It's true that everyone has their own POV, but many people can still maintain their objectivity and integrity, despite their POV. Apparently, you think some "proof of purity" should be the new standard for TPs, Autosport, BBC, James Allen, etc, to choose their driver of the year? What about drivers of all time? "MOST PEOPLE" think Jame's Allen's research is biased? Why?? :confused: Did you poll Most People, or just pull that from your nether region? (See how this credibility thing can work!) :well: I get it, you guys like statistics, and apparently believe they tell the whole story. Most of the sport's professionals don't share your view on this. There is no more democratic place than the internet, so you certainly don't have to agree with them. But the lengths you seem prepared to go to question and undermine the honesty and integrity of their views on who the best driver in 2012 was is simply ASTONISHING! :eek:

Edited by PoleMan, 26 December 2012 - 22:06.


#468 mey3059

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:28

I'm sorry, but I do have to laugh. :lol: It seems clear that you and apparently the one who is still frozen in the Winter of 1998 are absolutists. I'm not sure how many things in life can be proven in absolute and micro-granular detail. :D To your credit, you acknowledge your own bias against Alonso, but you then project that onto others whose opinion differs from yours. It's true that everyone has their own POV, but many people can still maintain their objectivity and integrity, despite their POV. Apparently, you think some "proof of purity" should
be the new standard for TPs, Autosport, BBC, James Allen, etc, to choose their driver of the year? What about drivers of all time? "MOST PEOPLE" think Jame's Allen's research is biased? Why?? :confused: Did you poll Most People, or just pull that from your nether region? (See how this credibility thing can work!) :well: I get it, you guys like statistics, and apparently believe they tell the whole story. Most of the sport's professionals don't share your view on this. There is no more democratic place than the internet, so you certainly don't have to agree with them. But the lengths you seem prepared to go to question and undermine the honesty and integrity of their views on who the best driver in 2012 was is simply ASTONISHING! :eek:


You don't get it !

All this while , have I told you , who I think is the best driver of 2012 ?
That's not what we were discussing !

being top in every list doesn't make Alonso the better driver than the rest ! but that doesn't make him a worse driver than the rest either

my mistake , I didn't mean 'most people think JA is biased' , I meant 'many' .... but that's not important .

Also, I am no really going to any lengths to undermine whosever list you are defending .
I am just stating that polls are not the ultimate tool to judge a drivers superiority , and I was trying to give reasons why !

But it seems you want to see it with a view that I am trying to diminish Alonso's achievements as the 'popular victor' of the 2012 season!

Edited by mey3059, 27 December 2012 - 04:43.


#469 PedroR

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 10:13

Great Season Fernando! :up:

Best car in 2.013 and you get it :smoking:


#470 showtime

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:30

According to Castrol:

"The system looks beyond race wins, taking into account every measurable achievement - overtaking moves, fastest laps or stage times, qualifying performances, and so on."


I find such a system far more reliable than opinions, which are always going to be clouded by biases, both conscience and sub-conscience, especially in a sport like F1, which is so political.

Castrol incorporates all the factors people use in their debates. How handy.


So? You brought Castrol rankings as "some experts rate Vettel higher." which is not true. Now you change to another song "Result based rankings are better than expert opinions". Castrol rankings are useless, if you want a ranking based on results take a look at the WDC table.

#471 Winter98

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 17:26

So? You brought Castrol rankings as "some experts rate Vettel higher." which is not true. Now you change to another song "Result based rankings are better than expert opinions". Castrol rankings are useless, if you want a ranking based on results take a look at the WDC table.


I see why you might think this, however, the Castrol Rankings were devised by experts on motorsport, so they are in fact rankings by experts, and take into account all the aspects of each race that people on this forum use in their debates, so I would say they are very complete.

As well, Castrol Rankings are not clouded by personal biases, as every opinion is, and thus, for me at least, carry far more weight than biased opinions.



#472 Buttoneer

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 17:31

Posts deleted.

The last report we had regarding a post in this thread was on 19th December regarding a post that had been made a few days before that. Not a single person has reported a post since then, which means we have little reason to visit the thread. WE DO NOT PRE-APPROVE POSTS.

When you comment that the moderators 'allow' trolling, please remember that the only people who promote it are the ones who respond to it, and the ones who do not report it. If you don't like it, then do something about it; DO NOT RESPOND TO IT, REPORT IT.

Why bother replying with 'you're just a hater'? Why call someone a troll? If you do not have the intelligence to mount a reasoned response, or send us a report setting out why one cannot be given, then it is best that you do not comment at all.

#473 aditya-now

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 17:47

I really don't know why folks going about the bolded part. It's simply not true. Old or new points system, there would be only a few positions different, and most important, Vettel would have won under the previous points system the WDC too. Even the system used back in 1930, where having the least points would make you the WDC. Alonso would have lost in 2010 as well.

http://www.kolumbus....llman/main2.htm

Like it or not, the number always make Vettel the WDC over the past 3 years. Who was the better driver over a season however is another story.


Thanks for the link to the pre-war races and race tables - amazing reading!! I didn't know the site. Now I can delve further into the great duels of Carraciola and Varzi as well as the exploits of Rosemeyer and co.

Suffice it to say, Fernando is a modern classic driver in the sense that these pre-war drivers were real heros - and so is Alonso.


#474 showtime

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 19:55

I see why you might think this, however, the Castrol Rankings were devised by experts on motorsport, so they are in fact rankings by experts, and take into account all the aspects of each race that people on this forum use in their debates, so I would say they are very complete.

As well, Castrol Rankings are not clouded by personal biases, as every opinion is, and thus, for me at least, carry far more weight than biased opinions.


You are comparing two different things. Castrol rankings only use results, the expert input is just limited to how every aspect is leveraged (including different competitions). The fact is WDC is always #1 no matter what. Other rankings based on expert opinions try to rate drivers taking into account the cars they were driving and therefore the driver with the best numbers is not always #1. I can understand why you don't like expert rankings, specially if your opinion is not the same as many of these so called experts but, for the moment, is the only way to create a ranking purely taking into account driver performance. Put Taki Inoue on a car that is 3 second faster than the rest and he will be #1 on the Castrol Ranking, if you think this is a complete ranking and deserves attention...

#475 Winter98

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 20:27

You are comparing two different things. Castrol rankings only use results, the expert input is just limited to how every aspect is leveraged (including different competitions).


Experts devised a formula that take all the number, including overtakes, qualifying, etc. etc. and produces a result. Completely unbiased, at least as far as intra-series comparisons go.

The fact is WDC is always #1 no matter what.

Formula 1 is generally regarded as the pinnacle of motorsports, is it not? As for the WDC always getting number 1, if that's the way all the numbers play out, so be it.

Other rankings based on expert opinions try to rate drivers taking into account the cars they were driving and therefore the driver with the best numbers is not always #1.


That is exactly what Castrol does:
"The system looks beyond race wins, taking into account every measurable achievement - overtaking moves, fastest laps or stage times, qualifying performances, and so on."

They just leave the bias at the door, at least as far as intra-series comparisons are concerned.

I can understand why you don't like expert rankings, specially if your opinion is not the same as many of these so called experts but, for the moment, is the only way to create a ranking purely taking into account driver performance.


I don't like the "expert" opinions because they are biased, even if the expert is doing their best to be unbiased. And in sport as political as F1, I think we can agree there are a lot of biased opinions, even amongst the experts.

EDIT: Whether I agree or disagree with an expert opinion is irrelevant, I would never use one in an argument because they are just that: opinions (and inherently biased).

Put Taki Inoue on a car that is 3 second faster than the rest and he will be #1 on the Castrol Ranking, if you think this is a complete ranking and deserves attention...


LOL, Taki's teammate would have beaten him, so you are incorrect.

See what I mean about opinions?

According to one poster's byline, Martin Brundle said Vettel had to be considered on a equal footing with MS and Senna. If that is true, I take it you will agree?

Edited by Winter98, 27 December 2012 - 20:53.


#476 Buttoneer

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 21:18

Showtime is right, Castrol is just about numbers, regardless that it is a metric designed and approved by numerous experts. And by the way, which experts?

It takes little account of the fact that a driver was in the lead through to the last lap, and then suffered an engine failure, for example. As rational human beings, we would look at that performance and agree this driver was better than the rest despite his DNF. What does Castrol say about it? Vettel's points haul for 2011 was 55% from finishing position and less than 5% for laps led.

#477 Winter98

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 21:34

Showtime is right, Castrol is just about numbers, regardless that it is a metric designed and approved by numerous experts. And by the way, which experts?


I happen to agree with you here Buttoneer. But I think opinions are even less reliable because they are inherently biased, regardless of the intentions of the expert involved. Especially in a sport as political as F1.

I'm new to posting on the internet, but I'm guessing we are getting off topic. Sorry, and I'll leave it at this.

#478 kosmos

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:30

I don't know how many here know this, but Fernando is going to participate in an Ironman Triathlon in January, it seems like he is training really hard and he asked for advice to Gómez Noya, an Spanish triathlon world champion.

Also an interesting stat from the 2012 season, only two drivers had 0 penalties, one is Fernando, the other Glock.

Edited by kosmos, 28 December 2012 - 08:32.


#479 AyrtonSauna

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 01:09

I don't know how many here know this, but Fernando is going to participate in an Ironman Triathlon in January, it seems like he is training really hard and he asked for advice to Gómez Noya, an Spanish triathlon world champion.

Also an interesting stat from the 2012 season, only two drivers had 0 penalties, one is Fernando, the other Glock.


There's no doubt that Alonso trains really hard and has always done so.In 2012 he was fitter than ever in both strength and endurance.He didn't suffer from injuries that compromise driving performance and thats part of the reason he performed so well.
Anyone who thinks he's not fit because he looks tired after some races doesn't have a clue about his fitness that can be compared to professional athletes in other sports! Look at his twitter which is almost like a training log full of 3,4 and 5 hour training sessions including running,swimming,weights,G-force resistance and driver specific exercises,even training to enhance reflexes but especially cycling for Alonso which he loves.
The danger for the type of driver like Alonso is not being unfit,but rather Overtraining! and the repurcussions of chronic tiredness and being injury prone.

Doing a 3km swim-180km bike ride-42km run Ironman triathlon is actually in Alonsos reach.January would be a good time so he could recover before the F1 season starts! Training for and completing an "Ironman" would surely create the biggest endurance and fitness foundation that Alonso has ever had going into a new season.Then the shorter but more intense training during the season will seem like a breeze almost.

No penalties for Alonso in 2012? Doesn't fit his image does it? Reality is often different from what we think :lol:


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#480 Szoelloe

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 02:03

There's no doubt that Alonso trains really hard and has always done so.In 2012 he was fitter than ever in both strength and endurance.He didn't suffer from injuries that compromise driving performance and thats part of the reason he performed so well.
Anyone who thinks he's not fit because he looks tired after some races doesn't have a clue about his fitness that can be compared to professional athletes in other sports! Look at his twitter which is almost like a training log full of 3,4 and 5 hour training sessions including running,swimming,weights,G-force resistance and driver specific exercises,even training to enhance reflexes but especially cycling for Alonso which he loves.
The danger for the type of driver like Alonso is not being unfit,but rather Overtraining! and the repurcussions of chronic tiredness and being injury prone.

Doing a 3km swim-180km bike ride-42km run Ironman triathlon is actually in Alonsos reach.January would be a good time so he could recover before the F1 season starts! Training for and completing an "Ironman" would surely create the biggest endurance and fitness foundation that Alonso has ever had going into a new season.Then the shorter but more intense training during the season will seem like a breeze almost.

No penalties for Alonso in 2012? Doesn't fit his image does it? Reality is often different from what we think :lol:


He would die of heart failure mid-distance, if he would attempt an..'iron man..you call it? Its a different sport, and altogether another league.


#481 AyrtonSauna

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 02:55

He would die of heart failure mid-distance, if he would attempt an..'iron man..you call it? Its a different sport, and altogether another league.


Nonsense.Only the top Ironman Triathletes are in another league.Thousands of other participants in Ironman have completed this gruelling event with less fitness than what Alonso has developed.


#482 Buttoneer

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:27

In RC, the driver threads started with the Lewis Hamilton thread which was a discussion about a new up-and-coming driver who ought to make it into F1. Over a period of years the title of the thread was taken as a banner to discuss any and all aspects in which Lewis was involved, including lots of non-motorsport discussion, and it then spread to all other drivers who now have their own topic.

Threads like these have been looked upon by some as a 'fan appreciation' thread where dissenting opinions should not be given voice and by others as places to go to troll. It is this environment where the labels 'fanboy' and 'hater' or 'anti' have become ingrained and then employed more widely across the forum. During a race, progress is followed here instead of in the race thread or live forum; when a site releases a poll each driver thread is used to discuss that drivers position within it; when there is an incident, the thread for each driver involved becomes part of the extended battleground. In reality, the threads have become micro-communities where fans of particular drivers tend to discuss every aspect of F1 with other posters they feel comfortable with. Potentially good topics of discussion often go unnoticed by the more general membership who may have had something positive to contribute, because it was not clear the discussion was taking place.

We have decided that the threads are a barrier to the free flow of discussion and ideas and have taken the decision to ban driver threads as part of the introduction to our new rules, which can be found here (link).

As always, we are happy to listen to your views and opinions on how the forum is moderated but please, by PM only.