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Fernando Alonso - Part III


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#51 sheepgobba

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 14:42

I think Vettel is better actually, and he showed it on track. Vettel has incredible skill of being best when it matters the most. Same cannot be said about Alonso.


What a load of shit.

Where was this so called best 'vetted' at the start of the season when the Red Bull wasn't as good?

Helps when you have the best car aye.. :wave:

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#52 Fontainebleau

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 15:53

Nice try at taking a swipe at Ferrari's Last World Champion!!

By the way, that "hypothetical" driver could go rally, return & take a reduced salary to continue doing the stuff he loves was only possible because a certain driver made sure his BANK paid a MASSIVE $18 million approx not to drive for Ferrari, or any other Formula 1 team. So he chose to get away. Good on him for trying out all forms of motorsport.... because he can.

Also, that hypothetical driver is the biggest winner of the 2012 season, after Vettel of course. If someone is not careful, we all know who will be "kicked out" next in favour of a triple world champion.

The biggest winner after Vettel? Sure... One win in a Lotus that showed quite a bit of potential, and inheriting third from Hamilton as he was plagued with bad luck (it is funny how people keep on repeating how Alonso inherits places, and totally forget when the inheritor is some other driver), yet you give that more credit than you give the driver whose thread you are posting in and who just came second, three points behind the RBR despite the difference in car performance.

As for the perennial reference to the bank, that is just a poor excuse trying to cover up a very simple fact: Ferrari, and not its sponsors, takes its own decisions. The fact than then they look for money to implement them is irrelevant to where the decision-making takes place.

#53 choyothe

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:14

I dont think Hamilton is doing better than ALO at the moment.


He's not.  ;)

#54 prty

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:48

Despite massive back-up from the team, Massa being clear nr2, competitive car etc. Alonso has given zero Championships for the Scuderia. What was also puzzling that he was slower than Massa in last races when it mattered.

Also blaming Spa and Japan is sour grapes. You make your own luck eh?


Actually your post seem like more sour-grapy, given that it's Alonso and not Kimi the one getting praise from driving the wheels off that Ferrari, after pushing the latter out of the ride :wave:


#55 Dino2000

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:52

I've been waiting for my post for a couple of days, so my ideas would settle and everybody else had a chance of writing their opinions so I could read it.

I had the luck of meeting first time Fernando when he was 13 years old, so everytime I see him in his red car I remember that determined kid, still unpolished, that I met first.

Also I've been Ferrari fan since mid seventies, so enjoyed the performances of Lauda, Gilles, Alboreto, Mansell, Prost, Alesi and Schumacher. But I had never the chance of knowing them personally before they became Ferrari drivers.

So I feel a special conection with Fernando. I'm not going to join the debate of the best driver ever or worthy champions et al, because those are not facts but just opinions and debatable.

What I wanted to share is how special Fernando has made me feel as a Ferrari fan, how connected he made me feel with the team, how human the Scuderia feels with him, and also with Felipe, Stefano, Andrea, ..., now I feel much more in one with my team that ever before.

It would have been wonderful to win the title this year, because everyone in the team and at the factory deserved, but all we fans and Ferrari workers have to feel proud of what we achieved, even if was not in the end the victory we dreamed so hard.

In the defeat, is not easy to be united as a team. Look what has happened with McLaren, when all went wrong Hamilton (my second favorite driver) split with the team.

But we, Ferrari, are stronger than ever, even if the car was not what we wanted, we still will have complete faith in our engineers, in everyone of Ferrari.

I'm so proud of all you, that something this means much more than a victory.

Thank you Fernando to make me feel special as a Ferrari fan.

#56 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:22

Great on-board video of Fernando's first lap in Brazil :up:


Edited by CrucialXtreme, 27 November 2012 - 17:24.


#57 rsaca

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:29

Great video, Crucial.

This championship was totally unfair. Fernando should have won it but it wasn't made to be. Abu Dhabi with two SC and the first corner in Interlagos come to mind how Vettel had the luck of a champion, nothing we could do.

Nevertheless, titles don't define legends and for me Fernando is one of the biggest legends in the sport already.

#58 SirPaulGerman

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:37

Great on-board video of Fernando's first lap in Brazil :up:


wow did he pass 2 cars at the same time ?

#59 HPT

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:47

I've been waiting for my post for a couple of days, so my ideas would settle and everybody else had a chance of writing their opinions so I could read it.

I had the luck of meeting first time Fernando when he was 13 years old, so everytime I see him in his red car I remember that determined kid, still unpolished, that I met first.

Also I've been Ferrari fan since mid seventies, so enjoyed the performances of Lauda, Gilles, Alboreto, Mansell, Prost, Alesi and Schumacher. But I had never the chance of knowing them personally before they became Ferrari drivers.

So I feel a special conection with Fernando. I'm not going to join the debate of the best driver ever or worthy champions et al, because those are not facts but just opinions and debatable.

What I wanted to share is how special Fernando has made me feel as a Ferrari fan, how connected he made me feel with the team, how human the Scuderia feels with him, and also with Felipe, Stefano, Andrea, ..., now I feel much more in one with my team that ever before.

It would have been wonderful to win the title this year, because everyone in the team and at the factory deserved, but all we fans and Ferrari workers have to feel proud of what we achieved, even if was not in the end the victory we dreamed so hard.

In the defeat, is not easy to be united as a team. Look what has happened with McLaren, when all went wrong Hamilton (my second favorite driver) split with the team.

But we, Ferrari, are stronger than ever, even if the car was not what we wanted, we still will have complete faith in our engineers, in everyone of Ferrari.

I'm so proud of all you, that something this means much more than a victory.

Thank you Fernando to make me feel special as a Ferrari fan.


Very good post! I actually feel better after reading this. Thanks mate! :up:

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#60 rsaca

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:18

I just read Ferrari will present the FIA wih two videos showing Vettel overtook a Toro Rosso under yellow flags.

Source: Ferrari presentará 2 vídeos a la FIA demostrando que Vettel adelantó con banderas amarillas

#61 SophieB

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:25

I've been waiting for my post for a couple of days, so my ideas would settle and everybody else had a chance of writing their opinions so I could read it.

I had the luck of meeting first time Fernando when he was 13 years old, so everytime I see him in his red car I remember that determined kid, still unpolished, that I met first.

Also I've been Ferrari fan since mid seventies, so enjoyed the performances of Lauda, Gilles, Alboreto, Mansell, Prost, Alesi and Schumacher. But I had never the chance of knowing them personally before they became Ferrari drivers.

So I feel a special conection with Fernando. I'm not going to join the debate of the best driver ever or worthy champions et al, because those are not facts but just opinions and debatable.

What I wanted to share is how special Fernando has made me feel as a Ferrari fan, how connected he made me feel with the team, how human the Scuderia feels with him, and also with Felipe, Stefano, Andrea, ..., now I feel much more in one with my team that ever before.

It would have been wonderful to win the title this year, because everyone in the team and at the factory deserved, but all we fans and Ferrari workers have to feel proud of what we achieved, even if was not in the end the victory we dreamed so hard.

[...]

I'm so proud of all you, that something this means much more than a victory.

Thank you Fernando to make me feel special as a Ferrari fan.


This was beautifully written and a pleasure to read. I'd be interested if you'd got any more detail about how he seemed as a kid, that dounds fascinating. I was interestedin your take on today's team as a long standing fan. I am more a long standing McLaren fan, although I always had respect for Ferrari. But since Fernando joined, there seems so much more heart back in the team, after that had been lost a little for whatever reasons. (Just in my opinion)

I shall always remember him climbing out of that car on Sunday and his saluting the team for their efforts. I did not in any way judge Massa for sobbing on the podium - it's a very human response- but it did make me reflect on how extraordinarily drivers like Fernando are when they not only manage to keep it together, but are still thinking of other people, of how the team are coping, what they can find to say to help ease their dsappointment instead of giving in to their own.

#62 paulesko

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:26

I just read Ferrari will present the FIA wih two videos showing Vettel overtook a Toro Rosso under yellow flags.

Source: Ferrari presentará 2 vídeos a la FIA demostrando que Vettel adelantó con banderas amarillas


At least they read forums... but Ferrari should notice these things on the race. :evil:


#63 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:32

wow did he pass 2 cars at the same time ?


Yes both Massa & Webber. As you can see in the video, it was an awesome pass!

I just read Ferrari will present the FIA wih two videos showing Vettel overtook a Toro Rosso under yellow flags.

Source: Ferrari presentará 2 vídeos a la FIA demostrando que Vettel adelantó con banderas amarillas


The new video makes it clear Seb overtook the STR(who slowed down to let him by) under yellow flags. But it's too late for all of this. Had it been during the race, maybe. But not sure I'd want him to win like that.

#64 F1Champion

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:38

I just read Ferrari will present the FIA wih two videos showing Vettel overtook a Toro Rosso under yellow flags.

Source: Ferrari presentará 2 vídeos a la FIA demostrando que Vettel adelantó con banderas amarillas


A little late to protest, in addition it is a pretty lame way to protest as Vettel has an explanation.

Edited by F1Champion, 27 November 2012 - 18:38.


#65 jstrains

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:38

Why not? The record will remember just the name next to year 2012 :wave:

#66 e34

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:44

Yes both Massa & Webber. As you can see in the video, it was an awesome pass!



The new video makes it clear Seb overtook the STR(who slowed down to let him by) under yellow flags. But it's too late for all of this. Had it been during the race, maybe. But not sure I'd want him to win like that.


In the thread about that question engel showed that it was not under yellow flags. There was a marshall waiving a green flag, although in Vettel's cockpit the yellow light was flashing. It would be doubious, at best, and I'd rather Ferrari did not pursue that avenue.

In any case, what I do find amusing is how, after two years of hearing how Petrov did the right thing in not letting Alonso through at Abu Dhabi, now nobody gives a damn about STR and Schumacher waiving through Vettel. And if you say something you are a sore loser.

By the way, I do think that Petrov did the right thing and that Schumacher should be ashamed. Then, STR is one of those things FIA allows; they can do whatever they want, and nobody ever will say anything. I am still puzzled by the chutzpa of people complaining how Ferrari gives Massa a hard time, and they have nothing to say about RBR-STR and Buemi and Alguersuari, last year, and Vergne and Ricardo this year.

#67 Fontainebleau

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:46

A little late to protest, in addition it is a pretty lame way to protest as Vettel has an explanation.

Which explanation does he have? Don't get me wrong, I am sure none of us particularly likes winning after a complain, but if indeed he overtaked under yellow flags that is a punishable action.

In any case, I wouldn't mind FIA questioning the part that the TR and Schumacher played in the race. Had the Alonso and Vettel roles been reversed, it would seem that certain non-RBR cars would have acted in a very different way. Or in other words, Vettel seemed to have three or four cars racing for him, and while that is not illegal under current rules that does not mean that going forward it should be considered acceptable.

#68 Fontainebleau

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:48

In the thread about that question engel showed that it was not under yellow flags. There was a marshall waiving a green flag, although in Vettel's cockpit the yellow light was flashing. It would be doubious, at best, and I'd rather Ferrari did not pursue that avenue.

I'll look for that thread now, but doesn't the video show at least other two yellow lights before the overtake?

#69 jstrains

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:50

I hope Vettel will finally learn "dirty tricks" from Ferrari soon! :rotfl:

#70 e34

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:52

I'll look for that thread now, but doesn't the video show at least other two yellow lights before the overtake?


The explanation is on the still photographs. They are from the lap before, but it does seem that after the curve, the track was greenflagged... which raises the question about why the yellow light was still flashing in Vettel's cockpit.


#71 paulesko

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 19:02

What´s more. I think RB knew all this, and they ordered Vergne to let a gap big enough to Michael just in case, but he failed by 0.8 of a second to achieve that 20 sec gap. It´s curiuous to see how there´s little difference between drivers, but there is like 17 seconds between schumi and Vergne.

#72 Fontainebleau

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 19:12

The explanation is on the still photographs. They are from the lap before, but it does seem that after the curve, the track was greenflagged... which raises the question about why the yellow light was still flashing in Vettel's cockpit.

Well, I don't see how that is a justification. That may explain him missing the first yellow flashing lights, but by the time he overtakes the TR he has passed two more yellow flashing lights with no marshall waving a green flag before them?


#73 werks prototype

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 19:17

It has probably been a little overlooked, but there was a truly great save, from Alonso, early on in the race. Talk about working the wheel!

Edited by werks prototype, 27 November 2012 - 19:25.


#74 e34

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 19:18

Well, I don't see how that is a justification. That may explain him missing the first yellow flashing lights, but by the time he overtakes the TR he has passed two more yellow flashing lights with no marshall waving a green flag before them?


As I see it, Vettel overtook Vergne after passing the marshall waving the green flag. So the track after the marshall was green, i.e., the track was green after the marshall and before the first flashing green light.

I'll get to you later. ; )

#75 prty

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 19:41

Posted Image

#76 SCUDmissile

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 19:44

Posted Image

SOON.

(I hope)

#77 jstrains

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 19:48

The defeat is written all over his face. Kudos for overcoming his feelings and congratulating people from Red Bull :up:

#78 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:16

First off all this crap car came second in the WCC, so I see nothing special in Alonso coming in second in the WDC, it has to be expected of him. Secondly Massa was faster in the last races. So I do not think it was such an outstanding year for Fernando.


I guess you think that the fact that Alonso won 76 69% of Ferrari's WCC points has nothing to do with their second place at all, right?

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 27 November 2012 - 20:29.


#79 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:20

The defeat is written all over his face. Kudos for overcoming his feelings and congratulating people from Red Bull :up:


Yeah, he really looks spent in these moments.

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#80 LiJu914

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:22

I guess you think that the fact that Alonso won 76% of Ferrari's WCC points has nothing to do with their second place at all, right?


69% but anyway.;)

#81 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:25

In the thread about that question engel showed that it was not under yellow flags. There was a marshall waiving a green flag, although in Vettel's cockpit the yellow light was flashing. It would be doubious, at best, and I'd rather Ferrari did not pursue that avenue.

In any case, what I do find amusing is how, after two years of hearing how Petrov did the right thing in not letting Alonso through at Abu Dhabi, now nobody gives a damn about STR and Schumacher waiving through Vettel. And if you say something you are a sore loser.

By the way, I do think that Petrov did the right thing and that Schumacher should be ashamed. Then, STR is one of those things FIA allows; they can do whatever they want, and nobody ever will say anything. I am still puzzled by the chutzpa of people complaining how Ferrari gives Massa a hard time, and they have nothing to say about RBR-STR and Buemi and Alguersuari, last year, and Vergne and Ricardo this year.


Yeah, it's curious. I didn't like MS's move, but he has a point that fighting the much faster Vettel would not have done anything for his own race. However I do find Horner's quotes a bit strange: Red Bull thanks 'gracious' Schumacher for giving Vettel sixth

#82 garoidb

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:27

In any case, what I do find amusing is how, after two years of hearing how Petrov did the right thing in not letting Alonso through at Abu Dhabi, now nobody gives a damn about STR and Schumacher waiving through Vettel. And if you say something you are a sore loser.

By the way, I do think that Petrov did the right thing and that Schumacher should be ashamed. Then, STR is one of those things FIA allows; they can do whatever they want, and nobody ever will say anything. I am still puzzled by the chutzpa of people complaining how Ferrari gives Massa a hard time, and they have nothing to say about RBR-STR and Buemi and Alguersuari, last year, and Vergne and Ricardo this year.


I also think Schumacher should have raced Vettel, but the reason it is not a big scandal is that it was not critical to the championship (particularly with Webber positioned up the road). Alonso's only hope at that stage was a DNF for Button or something similar for Vettel.

#83 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:28

69% but anyway.;)


Thanks, fixed. I used the wrong numbers :blush:

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 27 November 2012 - 20:36.


#84 garoidb

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:32

Which explanation does he have? Don't get me wrong, I am sure none of us particularly likes winning after a complain, but if indeed he overtaked under yellow flags that is a punishable action.

In any case, I wouldn't mind FIA questioning the part that the TR and Schumacher played in the race. Had the Alonso and Vettel roles been reversed, it would seem that certain non-RBR cars would have acted in a very different way. Or in other words, Vettel seemed to have three or four cars racing for him, and while that is not illegal under current rules that does not mean that going forward it should be considered acceptable.


I thought it was illegal to have inter team orders, but in any case it would be impossible to police, much like intra team orders. Having two teams with common ownership or influential sponsors is probably a bad idea, but we have had it many times before (remember Flavio's roles at Benetton and Ligier in the mid 1990s or the four Marlboro cars in the early 1980s!).

#85 garoidb

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:34

Yes both Massa & Webber. As you can see in the video, it was an awesome pass!


I am a big Alonso fan, but to me that was a great move by Massa, opening up a nice space for Fernando.

#86 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:35

I am a big Alonso fan, but to me that was a great move by Massa, opening up a nice space for Fernando.


Massa's wingman driving was breathtaking at times. Very well done.

#87 stringyb92

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:57

Does anyone have the Hi-Res image of Alonso stood on his car with his arms out? Thanks

#88 crespo

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:00

The man loses the championship after a spectacular season, and people use that to talk further sh!t about him. What happened to this forum? Such a shame.

#89 ZuTiMa

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:06

Yeah, it's curious. I didn't like MS's move, but he has a point that fighting the much faster Vettel would not have done anything for his own race. However I do find Horner's quotes a bit strange: Red Bull thanks 'gracious' Schumacher for giving Vettel sixth


Then we have people moaning about team orders? this is way worse ... a 7xWDC givng a place to an opposition driver? would never have believed it from Schumi if I didnt see it myself! where is the fight?


#90 Skinnyguy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:10

Was trundling around Diario As to read about the flag-gate, and found this out:

http://www.as.com/mo...dasdasmot_5/Tes

Alonso has twitted: "No tengo milagros, Yo hago de las leyes correctas mis milagros."/ Hard to tranlate but something like "I have no miracles, I transform the correct rules in my miracles"

His manager García Abad followed: "Donde hay poca justicia es un peligro tener razón"/ This one´s easier: "where justice does not prevail, it´s dangerous being in the right".

I don´t like this. Are they sticking with the flag-gate guys?

#91 crespo

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:11

Then we have people moaning about team orders? this is way worse ... a 7xWDC givng a place to an opposition driver? would never have believed it from Schumi if I didnt see it myself! where is the fight?

There's no point arguing about it - it happened, it's done.

That's a concept Alonso haters seem to enjoy ignoring.

#92 TheF1BOB

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:17

Lets be honest guys, the officialism from the stewards to the marshals were pathetic. There was supposedly a green flag at the end of the pit lane even though the yellow lights were still going on after it, be it from them little screens or from Vettel's dashboard.

The whole things a mess.

Edited by TheF1BOB, 27 November 2012 - 21:17.


#93 e34

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:53

I also think Schumacher should have raced Vettel, but the reason it is not a big scandal is that it was not critical to the championship (particularly with Webber positioned up the road). Alonso's only hope at that stage was a DNF for Button or something similar for Vettel.


Well, considering what happened with Hulkemberg and Hamilton, I do believe that every overtaking in a wet Interlagos carries a risk with it, and Vettel was spared of it. Alonso had to fight, rightly, Petrov, and Vettel should have had to fight Schumacher (frankly, I cannot understand why we concede that STR drives do not fight RBR, but so be it); I am not talking about anti-Barrichello resistence, but about a proper fight.

I won't go around saying that it is a void championship or something, because IMO, it is not. But it is fun to see the double standards of the selfproclaimed defenders of the sport.

#94 Creepy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:55

Posted Image


Damn, I disliked Newey but now I like him. He looked really happy at Alonso doing that! :p

#95 prty

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 22:16

Nothing to dislike about Newey, he's really a humble nice guy.

#96 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 22:18

(frankly, I cannot understand why we concede that STR drives do not fight RBR, but so be it); I am not talking about anti-Barrichello resistence, but about a proper fight.

I won't go around saying that it is a void championship or something, because IMO, it is not. But it is fun to see the double standards of the selfproclaimed defenders of the sport.


I agree mate. People make a big deal when Ferrari make Massa move over or give up grid positions for Fernando, yet Mark moved over in Brazil, he was told to hold his position before in Singapore and has had his new FW taken so that Seb could use it. What's more, like you mentioned, is having a completely "separate" team(that you own), to promptly move over when they see you coming. People were up in arms saying Perez went off track on purpose in Malaysia, which is absolutely not true, but it's ok when Toro Rosso get out of the way of RB. When Fernando ran wide in T1/T2 in Interlagos you saw KOB fight with and pass Fernando. Obviously Fernando got the spot back on the straight, but KOB didn't move over for him.
The double standards here are funny. :up:

#97 Pep

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 22:21

First laps, still trembling...

https://www.youtube....p;v=AWguRc-AzoQ

#98 prty

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 22:53

The man loses the championship after a spectacular season, and people use that to talk further sh!t about him. What happened to this forum? Such a shame.


This forum has always been like this.
Antes, todo esto era campo :blush:

#99 TIFOlonSO

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 22:59

I also think Schumacher should have raced Vettel, but the reason it is not a big scandal is that it was not critical to the championship (particularly with Webber positioned up the road). Alonso's only hope at that stage was a DNF for Button or something similar for Vettel.


A DNF for button would not be enough as webber was ahead of Vettel and would let him pass for P4...


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#100 Ravenak

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  • Member

  • 939 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:43

I can't take my eyes off this GIF:

http://www.abload.de.../neweywaq1g.gif

(posted just above, I know, too lazy to quote)