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Fernando Alonso - Part III


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#351 Smile17

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 15:02

I stopped paying attention to anything Darren Heath (that author) had to say on anything except photography after following him on twitter for a while. He is an idiot, endlessly spouting smug toss on a wide range of subjects, always with the same misplaced confidence. Final straw: seeing him raging about how a BBC documentary earlier this year on autism wasn't drawing on Andrew Wakefield's utterly discredited work on the MMR jab. ("Why was no mention made of alleged link of #MMR jab to #autism on #BBC4 prog 'Growing Children'? A glaring omission.")

He also laughed on Twitter about how Hamilton was going around the paddock looking so miserable in the run up to the Spa weekend and to cheer up for god's sake. When Lewis had just suffered a death in his close family and in fact had actually been spending his time in the hospice with her when he had to leave for the race weekend. She died the day after he left to travel to Belgium. Hamilton had spoken publicly about this at length and the tabloid press had been covering it but I guess mr finger-on-the-pulse missed it. Or maybe he didn't and thought he should cheer up anyway, suggesting he has literally no idea how people work.

I am sure we don't know even a quarter of what goes on behind closed doors but I'll not be taking Heath's word for it. He's a tool.

(edited to add: whoops, thought I was in the thread sparked by more of Darren Heath's ill-chosen words.)


You're spot on. For someone who has been in the business for so long, he really got no clue. He knows how to write though, always entertaining. But sadly his desire to always make a soap-opera out of it gets the better of him. It's quotes like this one : 'Our Spanish hero is not only quick on track but swift with the ladies too, reputedly having bedded the majority of the more attractive female TV presenting dollies that flounce up and down Formula 1’s expensive catwalk'. That's where I stopped reading.

Edited by Smile17, 12 December 2012 - 15:04.


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#352 SophieB

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 15:57

You're spot on. For someone who has been in the business for so long, he really got no clue. He knows how to write though, always entertaining. But sadly his desire to always make a soap-opera out of it gets the better of him. It's quotes like this one : 'Our Spanish hero is not only quick on track but swift with the ladies too, reputedly having bedded the majority of the more attractive female TV presenting dollies that flounce up and down Formula 1’s expensive catwalk'. That's where I stopped reading.


I was a bit too harsh on reflection, though. I don't give any credence to his views but in this instance I think I was more cross that his comments had led to a lot of people rushing to fill in the blanks of what he might have been hinting at, leading to a bunch of people dredging up the usual old rubbish and it pissed me off. That's more about the inevitability of human nature when faced with dropped hints than about Heath, I guess.

Truly spectacular photographer, mind. His picture of Fernando giving a cheery thumb's up from the scales* is extraordinary. I question his take on his own work that it shows "contentment at a job well done, mixed with resignation at an accomplishment not quite achieved", mind. To me it looks more like a truly heroic effort to put on a brave face on things and stay professional, despite the crushing disappointment. Still, he was there and I was not, so who knows. Fantastic picture, either way. Funny, poignant and imaginative.

(*first picture in gallery) http://www.darrenhea...2/image-gallery

#353 motorhead

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 16:21

Here we go again  ;)

Alonso is claiming that RBR had 7 to 8 tenths advance to Ferrari in the end of the season....yeah right.

Despite admitting Ferrari will have to work hard to catch up with its rivals, the two-time champion remains hopeful that the Maranello squad can become the team to beat.

"I hope so. That's every team's goal: to be first and second on Saturday and first and second on Sunday. There are a few teams who have managed that recently," he said. "McLaren has done that a few times. Red Bull has done it over the past years. Even Lotus, there were times when they had both drivers on the podium.

"We haven't been able to do the job properly when it comes to the car performance, and that's one of the goals for next year.

....and Ferrari didn´t have double podium finishes and Alonso thinks that Lotus was a better car??? What about Brazil and even Austin without that gearbox issue.


Guy is remembers to praise himself though "I think it's been a perfect year. It's going to be nearly impossible to repeat that in my career."

source

#354 prty

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 16:43

Here we go again ;)

Alonso is claiming that RBR had 7 to 8 tenths advance to Ferrari in the end of the season....yeah right.

Despite admitting Ferrari will have to work hard to catch up with its rivals, the two-time champion remains hopeful that the Maranello squad can become the team to beat.

"I hope so. That's every team's goal: to be first and second on Saturday and first and second on Sunday. There are a few teams who have managed that recently," he said. "McLaren has done that a few times. Red Bull has done it over the past years. Even Lotus, there were times when they had both drivers on the podium.

"We haven't been able to do the job properly when it comes to the car performance, and that's one of the goals for next year.

....and Ferrari didn´t have double podium finishes and Alonso thinks that Lotus was a better car??? What about Brazil and even Austin without that gearbox issue.


Guy is remembers to praise himself though "I think it's been a perfect year. It's going to be nearly impossible to repeat that in my career."

source


Yeah right? That's what the difference was.

#355 BenettonB192

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 18:05

We get it Fernando you almost won the championship in the 5th fastest car. You are also a Samurai.
A bit more humility wouldn't hurt. He's trying too hard and too obvious to create a legend around him.

#356 Fontainebleau

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 18:32

We get it Fernando you almost won the championship in the 5th fastest car. You are also a Samurai.
A bit more humility wouldn't hurt. He's trying too hard and too obvious to create a legend around him.

And some here are trying too hard and too obvious to make sure that the diminish any achievements he may have had, by twisting his words and/or the results of the F2012 which, may I remind those people, was nicknamed "Clifford" at the beginning of the season.

The funny thing is that I can fully understand that Alonso, like everybody, wants to present himself in the best possible light and makes an effort in that sense; I totally fail to see what is the motivation behind those who try equally hard to dismiss him :)



#357 Watkins74

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 19:28

Alonso has the same problem that Bruce Lee had:

"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying."
~ Bruce Lee

#358 showtime

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 21:31

It easier than that, he is proud of his season, if someone has a problem with that, deal with it!

#359 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 01:57

Here we go again ;)

Alonso is claiming that RBR had 7 to 8 tenths advance to Ferrari in the end of the season....yeah right


He's right. There's no doubt about it.

United States Grand Prix:

Fastest RB(Quali)- 1.35.657

Fastest Ferrari(Quali)- 1.36.937


The RB was definitely 5 tenths quicker than the F2012 at the end of the season. The Austin Quali times prove it. So do Abu Dhabi times. Brazil is a very short track so times are obviously going to be closer than on the regular tracks.

Why are people so angry about Fernando telling the truth??

I do think he over exaggerated about Force India. He was spot on about Lotus though. They were at minimum even with Ferrari, but I do think they were just a bit quicker.

The real question is why does everyone get angry when he tells it like it is. He's not insane, he's not stupid, nor is he downplaying the car to make himself look better. The F2012 had no real new updates that worked after summer break. It didn't improve, so of course it was the 4th(or 5th) best car.

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#360 kosmos

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 07:11

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Some videos from yesterday events.

http://www.youtube.c...r/videos?view=0

Un crack.


#361 kosmos

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:42

So Fernando has been the best driver of the season according to F1 Team Principals, Mark Hughes and James Allen among other people.

Team Principals ranking:

2009: 4th
2010: 1st
2011: 3rd
2012: 1st

Not bad for a driver that has won 0 titles in the last six years, it shows, that stats and titles are not everything.

#362 H2H

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:46

So Fernando has been the best driver of the season according to F1 Team Principals, Mark Hughes and James Allen among other people.

Team Principals ranking:

2009: 4th
2010: 1st
2011: 3rd
2012: 1st

Not bad for a driver that has won 0 titles in the last six years, it shows, that stats and titles are not everything.


You are right. Not bad at all. He is certainly among the top 3 of the last 5 years according to the team principals. Note the distance between number 3 and 4.

Vettel 191
Alonso 183
Hamilton 179
Button 113
Raikkonen 108
Kubica 95
Webber 72
Massa 63
Rosberg 38
Hulk'berg 34

Edited by H2H, 13 December 2012 - 13:04.


#363 kosmos

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:56

Thanks for the data, do you have the list for 2008?.

I forgot to mention Amus and Autosport Magazine (Ed Straw), he was first there too. :smoking:

Edited by kosmos, 13 December 2012 - 12:56.


#364 H2H

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 13:05

In 2008 he was third, tied with Kubica.

I have not found the lists from 2007 backwards.

Edited by H2H, 13 December 2012 - 13:05.


#365 hijinx

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 13:13

Hi Guys,

Nicole translated this article and I thought to put it here because it was an interview with Alonso.

Alonso Urges Ferrari to Explore Loopholes

Translated by Nicole
13.12.2012 – 12:49:25
In an interview with Gazzetta dello Sport, Fernando Alonso thinks that he lost the WDC to Sebastian Vettel because Red Bull’s car was clearly more competitive than Ferrari’s. Alonso also critisized the rules. According to him, Red Bull took advantage of the unclear rule interpretations better than Ferrari and that’s why he felt that “fair play” in F1 doesn’t pay off... continue reading here

#366 Fontainebleau

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 13:19

You are right. Not bad at all. He is certainly among the top 3 of the last 5 years according to the team principals. Note the distance between number 3 and 4.

Vettel 191
Alonso 183
Hamilton 179
Button 113
Raikkonen 108
Kubica 95
Webber 72
Massa 63
Rosberg 38
Hulk'berg 34

What about the last three years, since he joined Ferrari? Do you know how he ranks?

#367 boldhakka

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 15:54

The F2012 had no real new updates that worked after summer break. It didn't improve, so of course it was the 4th(or 5th) best car.


So how do you explain 2nd in the WCC?

#368 Fontainebleau

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 16:25

So how do you explain 2nd in the WCC?

I think that you should rather ask McLaren how they explain 3rd in the WCC!  ;)

Seriously, though, I'd say that despite a poor (in relative terms) car both Alonso and Massa had a very good end of the season.

Edited by Fontainebleau, 13 December 2012 - 16:26.


#369 discover23

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 16:28

In 2008 he was third, tied with Kubica.

I have not found the lists from 2007 backwards.

and where was Vettel and Lewis in 2008?

#370 Fontainebleau

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 16:29

and where was Vettel and Lewis in 2008?

Fifth and first, if I am not mistaken.

#371 discover23

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 16:37

I am not really sure what this ranking posted by H2H really means. Where are those numbers coming from?

Vettel 191
Alonso 183
Hamilton 179

#372 LiJu914

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 16:41

Not sure, but i think he used the average numbers from the principals´ poll results of the last five years.

#373 H2H

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 17:29

Hi Guys,

Nicole translated this article and I thought to put it here because it was an interview with Alonso.

Alonso Urges Ferrari to Explore Loopholes

Translated by Nicole
13.12.2012 – 12:49:25
In an interview with Gazzetta dello Sport, Fernando Alonso thinks that he lost the WDC to Sebastian Vettel because Red Bull’s car was clearly more competitive than Ferrari’s. Alonso also critisized the rules. According to him, Red Bull took advantage of the unclear rule interpretations better than Ferrari and that’s why he felt that “fair play” in F1 doesn’t pay off... continue reading here


One should do well and ignore the headline and just look at what Alonso did - according to the article - say:

"Ci sono stati diversi episodi in cui le altre scuderie sono state al limite, noi no, ma questo è sempre successo e sempre succederà. Anche noi, però, dobbiamo pensare entro i confini del regolamento cercando qualche limite, qualche lacuna, come fanno altre squadre, per cercare di migliorare le prestazioni"

He pretty much says the obvious, no polemica here, move along. Ferrari has to push within the set of rules and explore it's limits and loopholes.. (he says lacuna which is not exactly the same as a loophole but in the context it fits).

Edited by H2H, 13 December 2012 - 17:30.


#374 showtime

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 19:23

One of the kids from yesterdays event won a personal interview. It's mostly personal question but when asked about who he get along better with he named Massa, Webber, Grosjean and... Kimi :p (some heads exploding now)

#375 TigersWood

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 19:48

Ferrari with all the money they have, they should hire 10 people and tell them to read the rules twice a day, looking for loopholes. It is what I have been saying these past years. Apart from Marlboro hidden advertisement, they haven't come up with anything revolutionary, and the lights in the pit stop instead of the lollypop are not going to make you go faster.

EDIT: Sorry, this should go in the Ferrari post. Anyway, it is related to what Fernando has said

Edited by TigersWood, 13 December 2012 - 19:50.


#376 MP422

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 19:52

Hi Guys,

Nicole translated this article and I thought to put it here because it was an interview with Alonso.

Alonso Urges Ferrari to Explore Loopholes

Translated by Nicole
13.12.2012 – 12:49:25
In an interview with Gazzetta dello Sport, Fernando Alonso thinks that he lost the WDC to Sebastian Vettel because Red Bull’s car was clearly more competitive than Ferrari’s. Alonso also critisized the rules. According to him, Red Bull took advantage of the unclear rule interpretations better than Ferrari and that’s why he felt that “fair play” in F1 doesn’t pay off... continue reading here


I understand where he is coming from.

#377 ASFA2011

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 00:31

Hi Guys,

Nicole translated this article and I thought to put it here because it was an interview with Alonso.

Alonso Urges Ferrari to Explore Loopholes

Translated by Nicole
13.12.2012 – 12:49:25
In an interview with Gazzetta dello Sport, Fernando Alonso thinks that he lost the WDC to Sebastian Vettel because Red Bull’s car was clearly more competitive than Ferrari’s. Alonso also critisized the rules. According to him, Red Bull took advantage of the unclear rule interpretations better than Ferrari and that’s why he felt that “fair play” in F1 doesn’t pay off... continue reading here


That is exactly what I think they should be doing that , looking for loopholes , but unfortunately Ferrari management lacks that , that ruthlessness that Alonso and the team Renault used to have , always looking for something that gives them the edge and that is where RB excels now ...
I kind of miss Flavio and Pat , they were always looking for that kind of stuff although they went overboard many times but you need that to win in F1 , the guys at Ferrari are way to soft and nice , nice guys finish last


#378 Ragingjamaican

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:18

Ferrari with all the money they have, they should hire 10 people and tell them to read the rules twice a day, looking for loopholes. It is what I have been saying these past years. Apart from Marlboro hidden advertisement, they haven't come up with anything revolutionary, and the lights in the pit stop instead of the lollypop are not going to make you go faster.

EDIT: Sorry, this should go in the Ferrari post. Anyway, it is related to what Fernando has said


:rotfl:

#379 boldhakka

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:51

I think that you should rather ask McLaren how they explain 3rd in the WCC! ;)

Seriously, though, I'd say that despite a poor (in relative terms) car both Alonso and Massa had a very good end of the season.


I'm more interested in the subtle cognitive leap that involved first convincing oneself of the F2012 being the 4th/5th FASTEST car, and then claiming it was the 4th/5th BEST car, which is a wholly different thing (the latter includes reliability and other matters).

You made the same leap. I'm sure you have convincing arguments about why the F2012 was (in relative terms) a SLOWER car, but you managed to use the word POOR, which it wasn't (in relative term) since it managed 2nd in the WCC.

The fact that a lot of people on here can hold the belief that the F2012 was the 4th/5th BEST car and yet know fully well that it achieved 2nd in the WCC is testament to the powers of the human brain and it's ability to manage fantastic levels of cognitive dissonance just to sustain certain biases.

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#380 kosmos

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:41

One of the kids from yesterdays event won a personal interview. It's mostly personal question but when asked about who he get along better with he named Massa, Webber, Grosjean and... Kimi :p (some heads exploding now)



The video.



Too bad it's only in Spanish, the whole thing is adorable.

#381 kosmos

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:31

Cool, Ferrari subtitled it in english.


http://www.ferrari.c...or-the-day.aspx

Edited by kosmos, 14 December 2012 - 11:31.


#382 steferrari

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:47

Beautiful video. :)

#383 nomi

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:01

Alonso no doubt one of the best drivers with Hamilton but he's so lame and won't stop talking like a whining wife.

#384 SophieB

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:11

Cool, Ferrari subtitled it in english.


http://www.ferrari.c...or-the-day.aspx



Aww. He always seems really great at dealing with children - patient and understanding, yet playful. What a charming video.

#385 Obi Offiah

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:17

Cool, Ferrari subtitled it in english.


http://www.ferrari.c...or-the-day.aspx

Thanks for posting that kosmos :up:

#386 D.M.N.

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 16:10

Take the Vettel discussion elsewhere please, there is a dedicated Vettel thread for Vettel talk.

#387 kosmos

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:47

Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1
More stats from A'sport. Alonso never lost a place on first lap all season. Gained 4 places twice; 3 places 4x; 2 places 2x; 1 plc 6x cont'd

Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1
More on Alonso first laps in 2012 - four times he didn't go forward but held position (twice from pole). Amazing

Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1
To be clear, those Alonso stats don't include Spa and Suzuka, when he didn't make it past first corner


:smoking:

#388 showtime

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:52

:smoking:


Yep, a big part of his title chances were based on the first laps. He had to take huge risks in most of the GP to be there.

#389 kosmos

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:40

Autosport Magazine has made a list of the best 50 drivers of the season. I made the text unreadable because I know that this is senseible material here. 1st Alonso, 2nd Hamilton, 3rd Vettel, 4th Loeb and so on....

Posted Image

Some small extracts from the magaine, buy the the thing, Ed Straw wrote an article about Fernando's year.

Noble: "It was a year when, for the first time in a while, a driver was able to stand head and shoulders above his machinery"

"The second, which showed how he is so central to Ferrari, came in the early hours of one morning in January when he stayed late to entertain the troops from the DJ decks at a party wrapping up his team's pre-season ski camp at Madonna di Campiglio. Here was someone completely locked in with the family around him. It's such a privilege seeing a man and team so at one with each other — both on and off track. "


Very fair and equilibrated view by:

Ed Straw: Alonso didn't perform miracles in 2012. And he didn't defy physics. What he did do was piece together by far the most consistently strong campaign that stood out among all the teams and drivers. That's the mark of a great champion, even if he doesn't have the official title to prove it.


Edited by kosmos, 20 December 2012 - 12:41.


#390 ali.unal

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:48

Yep, a big part of his title chances were based on the first laps. He had to take huge risks in most of the GP to be there.

Do you think Ferrari's below par one lap performance somehow negated by the sheer ability to catapult forward from the grid? Both Massa and Alonso have made perfect getaways thanks to Ferrari's launch control. Therefore, lack of qualifying performance often didn't hurt Ferrari as much as it would have been. Granted, it is too risky to start from the middle pack, but launch control offered some patch to the quali pace.

#391 showtime

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 13:03

Do you think Ferrari's below par one lap performance somehow negated by the sheer ability to catapult forward from the grid? Both Massa and Alonso have made perfect getaways thanks to Ferrari's launch control. Therefore, lack of qualifying performance often didn't hurt Ferrari as much as it would have been. Granted, it is too risky to start from the middle pack, but launch control offered some patch to the quali pace.


Launch control and Alonso ability to manage those situations obviously helped but is not comparable to a great qualy pace. Starting front the front row gives you the chance to fight for the victory, with the F2012 only podiums were reachable in dry conditions and the risk of an accident was higher. Take the last races of Vettel for example, even with a fast car when he couldn't start front the front he crashed twice trying to gain positions and only luck save him from a DNF. And I'm not criticising Vettel at all, it's just a way of putting Alonso's work into perspective, imagine how stressfully risky has his starts been in almost every GP.

#392 kosmos

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 13:26

I can't measure launch control and Alonso skills at lap 1, but he has made a lot of moves just by placing the car in the right spot and taking "controllated risks", so I don't think Ferrari's launch control compensate the lack o quali pace, specially when they start so far back most of the time.

#393 prty

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 14:37

Do you think Ferrari's below par one lap performance somehow negated by the sheer ability to catapult forward from the grid? Both Massa and Alonso have made perfect getaways thanks to Ferrari's launch control. Therefore, lack of qualifying performance often didn't hurt Ferrari as much as it would have been. Granted, it is too risky to start from the middle pack, but launch control offered some patch to the quali pace.


A lot of them were not in the launch itself, but in the first few corners.

#394 ali.unal

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 14:44

Not only Alonso, Massa has also benefitted some kind of advantage, I guess. Of course, it is not by any means comparable with a decent quali pace. Still it helps to reduce the disadvantage of being further back. It also needs a driver caliber of Alonso to make that work that much.

#395 boldhakka

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 16:33

Am surprised Fernando is stressing the respect and admiration of various people, as though that was something he and other drivers were aspiring towards from the very beginning. If the goal was to impress others, including TPs, several other drivers might have driven differently (e.g. compromise qualy setup for race pace) and said different things along the way. So others' judgement of Fernando, in the context of the primary goal being to win the WDC, is not really representative of anything.

He has clearly taken great pains to cultivate an image, and to separate his skills from the car's alleged shortcomings, which only underlines his political acumen more than anything else. There don't seem to be many other drivers quite so interested in nurturing a legacy within and outside the paddock, except via the conventional route of winning WDCs.

He really pulled out all the stops for 2012, I'm interested to see what else in his arsenal of tricks. Personally, I think he is continuing to play mind games and is utilizing the media to mentally destabilize his opponents - he doesn't give two hoots about the general public or what the TPs think of him.

Edited by boldhakka, 20 December 2012 - 16:37.


#396 showtime

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 20:39

Merry Christmas from Fernando:

#397 fabr68

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 21:41

Am surprised Fernando is stressing the respect and admiration of various people, as though that was something he and other drivers were aspiring towards from the very beginning. If the goal was to impress others, including TPs, several other drivers might have driven differently (e.g. compromise qualy setup for race pace) and said different things along the way. So others' judgement of Fernando, in the context of the primary goal being to win the WDC, is not really representative of anything.

He has clearly taken great pains to cultivate an image, and to separate his skills from the car's alleged shortcomings, which only underlines his political acumen more than anything else. There don't seem to be many other drivers quite so interested in nurturing a legacy within and outside the paddock, except via the conventional route of winning WDCs.

He really pulled out all the stops for 2012, I'm interested to see what else in his arsenal of tricks. Personally, I think he is continuing to play mind games and is utilizing the media to mentally destabilize his opponents - he doesn't give two hoots about the general public or what the TPs think of him.


:rotfl:

Forget tinfoil, this is a thick and heavy aluminum helmet.

#398 JSDSKI

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 01:58

He has clearly taken great pains to cultivate an image, and to separate his skills from the car's alleged shortcomings, which only underlines his political acumen more than anything else. There don't seem to be many other drivers quite so interested in nurturing a legacy within and outside the paddock, except via the conventional route of winning WDCs.

Clearly.

And he's also managed to hypnotize the vast majority of Team Principals, Journalists, as well as some of his opponents, into the myth of his skill when he is so obviously a second tier talent. I cannot understand how he's managed to do this for so many years against so many great champions?!? If only the Scuderia and the F2011 and 2012 had a driver worthy of their alleged design! It's a shame to have these cars besmirched and dragged down by the likes of the conspiratorial Spaniard.

Will we see the curtain raised to reveal the truth about Alonso? Will we see justice done? When?!

#399 boldhakka

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 02:17

He has clearly taken great pains to cultivate an image, and to separate his skills from the car's alleged shortcomings, which only underlines his political acumen more than anything else. There don't seem to be many other drivers quite so interested in nurturing a legacy within and outside the paddock, except via the conventional route of winning WDCs.

Clearly.

And he's also managed to hypnotize the vast majority of Team Principals, Journalists, as well as some of his opponents, into the myth of his skill when he is so obviously a second tier talent. I cannot understand how he's managed to do this for so many years against so many great champions?!? If only the Scuderia and the F2011 and 2012 had a driver worthy of their alleged design! It's a shame to have these cars besmirched and dragged down by the likes of the conspiratorial Spaniard.

Will we see the curtain raised to reveal the truth about Alonso? Will we see justice done? When?!


Tell me about it! So glad someone agrees with me.

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#400 gillesthegenius

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:53

Its good to see the initial inflammatory post about Vettel that lead to some OT discussion being taken out by the mods. Hats off to them, and hats off to Alonso for his brilliant - although not as 'flawless' as some people claim it to be - season. Looking forward to seeing him, god willing, enhacing the spectacle called f1 along with other super talents like Vettel, Hamilton and Raikonen for the foreseeable future. :up: