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Rally 2013


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#51 kosmic33

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 14:04

are hyundai really coming to WRC???

Yes
http://www.wrc.com/n...turn/?fid=17523

i'm a big fan of solberg from his WDC winning subaru days, he is a character and i'd be sad to see him go like this, his story is kinda similar to Kobayashi's .

Yes i'll be sad to see him go but unlike Kobayashi he is a former world champion who probably past it and was out driven by a privateer in the same car all season (Ostberg) so probably doesnt really deserve one of the few works seats available

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#52 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 14:35

Very sad to see Petter go. But interesting to see where he goes now, ERC? Le Mans?

#53 SpaMaster

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 14:49

What a sad day when someone like Solberg cannot be in WRC next year! A reflection of the sad state of affairs in WRC. If you can't even have 10 top drivers in a series, that series has been going bad for a long time. Anyway, I hope he continues to do something he enjoys next year. WRC is the loser without him.

#54 Myrvold

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 15:05

Yes i'll be sad to see him go but unlike Kobayashi he is a former world champion who probably past it and was out driven by a privateer in the same car all season (Ostberg) so probably doesnt really deserve one of the few works seats available


Petter was usually quicker than Ostberg, but more erratic. He was not outdriven!

Apparently Nasser Al-Attiyah, the M-sport third driver and the man behind the Quatar-backing is a fan of Petter and wanted him in the second car. Wilson probably has som East European youngster with a substantial backing on his hands and prefers money over speed.


Nope, Petter told Wilson last week that he didn't want to pay, and wanted a full season (M-Sport offered Petter 5 rallies for free). Then Wilson asked Petter for more time, to try to get backing to keep him.

I guess we'll see Petter in a variety of categories next year; Global Rallycross in the USA, Pikes Peak (Petter Solberg Engineering has built a prototype) and perhaps LeMans. He did a really good test for Oreca two or three years ago, almost as fast as Panis in his first apperance in a LeMans prototype, and team boss Hugues de Chaunac really wanted him. Petter declined to concentrate on his WRC program. And what about Huyndai?


It's said in Norway that Touring Cars, Le Mans Series, Rallycross and Desert-Rallying is something he have a chance to do.

#55 kosmic33

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 17:30

Petter was usually quicker than Ostberg, but more erratic. He was not outdriven!

So you're saying that Petter was not out driven by Mads even though Mads won a rally (Petter hasnt won since 2005) and scored more points than him?
All while driving a customer spec car.
Even though he skipped 2 events for financial reasons.
With essentially no testing.
And never retired/super-rallied due to an accident (Petter had 5 day/rally ending crashes)
Are you sure????

#56 Myrvold

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 18:32

So you're saying that Petter was not out driven by Mads even though Mads won a rally (Petter hasnt won since 2005) and scored more points than him?
All while driving a customer spec car.
Even though he skipped 2 events for financial reasons.
With essentially no testing.
And never retired/super-rallied due to an accident (Petter had 5 day/rally ending crashes)
Are you sure????


Out-driven in my mind is being beaten on speed. Out-scored however.

Though, I seriously dislike Mads Østberg, so I might struggle to keep myself neutral, even though I try.

On a different note, Rally MC stages has been announced

Wednesday:
ES1 Le Moulinon - Antraigues 9h03 37,10 km
ES2 Burzet - St. Martial 10h21 30,60 km
ES3 Le Moulinon - Antraigues 14h21 37,10 km
ES4 Burzet - St. Martial 15h39 30,60 km

Thursday:
ES5 Labatie d'Andaure - Lalouvesc 9h33 19,08 km
ES6 St Bonnet - St Julien Molhesabate - St Bonnet 10h14 25,45 km
ES7 Lamastre - Gilhoc - Alboussiere 11h37 21,72 km
ES8 Labatie d'Andaure - Lalouvesc 14h50 19,08 km
ES9 St Bonnet - St Julien Molhesabate - St Bonnet 15h31 25,45 km
ES10 Lamastre - Gilhoc - Alboussiere 16h54 21,72 km

Friday:
ES11 St Jean en Royans - La Cime du Mas 9h08 33,19 km
ES12 St Nazaire le Désert - La Motte Chalançon 13h31 22,11 km
ES13 Sisteron - Thoard 15h29 36,70 km

Saturday:
ES14 Moulinet - La Bollene Vesubie 15h11 23,54 km
ES15 Lantosque - Luceram 15h54 18,95 km
ES16 Moulinet - La Bollene Vesubie 17h12 23,54 km
ES17 Moulinet - La Bollene Vesubie 20h58 23,54 km
ES18 Lantosque - Lucéram 21h41 18,95 km

Interesting to see night-stages in WRC again, and three times over col du turini!

Edited by Myrvold, 04 December 2012 - 18:35.


#57 kosmic33

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 18:49

Interesting to see night-stages in WRC again, and three times over col du turini!

To me, night stages are one of the things I truly love about rallying.
Both in the car and out of it there is no other buzz like it!

Lets hope we get to see some of them on tv this year
Are they still running the Power Stages next year - the last stage is 18.95kms which is longer than normal

#58 ArnageWRC

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 19:22

Next years Rallye Portugal Power stage is meant to be a Marathon 30km+......

Saying that, the whole point of the Power stage is for LiveTV, I didn't see one live at all this year. I'm hoping RedBull/ Sportsmens Group announce something before Christmas..... Even if it's for coverage on the RedBullTV platform. It has gone quiet from them; I trust they're busy, silently working on working it all out.

#59 DrProzac

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 19:25

Shame for Petter, one of my favorite rally drivers.

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#60 kosmic33

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 19:37

Next years Rallye Portugal Power stage is meant to be a Marathon 30km+......

Saying that, the whole point of the Power stage is for LiveTV, I didn't see one live at all this year. I'm hoping RedBull/ Sportsmens Group announce something before Christmas..... Even if it's for coverage on the RedBullTV platform. It has gone quiet from them; I trust they're busy, silently working on working it all out.

I just want to be able to watch a well presented programme, with a HD picture & no audio sync issues.
Is that too much to ask from the motorsport that attracts more spectators than any other?

#61 skywing

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:14

New livery for Citroen. http://www.citroen-w...-desire-to-win/ Also Loeb to compete in four rallies(Monte, Sweden, France and one unconfirmed).

#62 MadYarpen

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:19

I like the livery

#63 kosmic33

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:26

Not so sure myself.
Gold and white...... :|

No red bull either!

#64 artista

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:48

Not too ugly. I suppose it's a question of time until we get used and intuitively relate those colours with Citröen.
My favourite livery of the las couple of years keeps being the black Fiestas, and maybe also how Räikkönen's black and white looked on snow.

#65 EightGear

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:52

The unconfirmed rally for Loeb will be Argentina.

I expect Red Bull to be on the Polo's, we'll see this saturday during the VW presentation in Monte Carlo.

Also, Rally Germany will start from Cologne in 2013. Then 3 stages in the Eifel, including a night stage. The rest of the stages are around Trier, as usual.

Edited by EightGear, 06 December 2012 - 11:54.


#66 MadYarpen

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 12:51

Red Bull was all over VW cars in Dakar, so I guess it will be on Polo WRC too.

#67 artista

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 13:09

But, are they really going to sponsor some team given that they will also spend money as championship's promotors?

I just assumed, they would stop the sponsoring.

#68 kosmic33

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 13:38

But, are they really going to sponsor some team given that they will also spend money as championship's promotors?

I just assumed, they would stop the sponsoring.

Red Bull Media House is completely seperate from the Red Bull drinks company.

I'd say Red Bull will be on the VW's too.
It was the only name on the VW run Skodas this year

#69 DrProzac

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 16:56

Not so sure myself.
Gold and white...... :|

No red bull either!

I have mixed feelings too. Maybe we're just used to the old one.

#70 BRG

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 22:53

Also Loeb to compete in four rallies(Monte, Sweden, France and one unconfirmed).

So Citroen will at least win thsoe four rallies. But probably no others if they are leaving it to Hirvonen, Sordo and Al-Quassim. Ford have just missed their chance, although they will doubtless lay claim to any M-Sport victories.

#71 kosmic33

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 14:34

So Citroen will at least win thsoe four rallies. But probably no others if they are leaving it to Hirvonen, Sordo and Al-Quassim. Ford have just missed their chance, although they will doubtless lay claim to any M-Sport victories.

I'd be shocked if M-Sport win more than 1 event.

Actually, I doubt they'll win 1.
They couldnt do it with a proper budget so I doubt they'll do it now

#72 H2H

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 14:40


I'm looking forward to the VW team. It would be nice to see more competitive teams in the sport with less need for drivers to find the money to buy their seats. And the 'Polo' looks nice.

#73 MadYarpen

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 15:01

I'm looking forward to the VW team. It would be nice to see more competitive teams in the sport with less need for drivers to find the money to buy their seats. And the 'Polo' looks nice.

shame it is not a scirocco :(

#74 kosmic33

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 17:08

Launch of the Polo is live @ 19:30CET here:
http://www.volkswagen-motorsport.com/

They had live interviews with drivers/engineers etc earlier
Nothing groundbreaking but still interesting viewing

#75 amjs

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 19:13

Posted Image

#76 MadYarpen

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 20:05

this looks like a mean beast :up:

#77 artista

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 20:11

Not ugly.

And, of course, you guys were right. The Red Bull stickers are there.

#78 Myrvold

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 20:27

And Andreas Mikkelsen will drive for VW from round 4 :)

#79 skywing

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 20:53

And Andreas Mikkelsen will drive for VW from round 4 :)

Will he drive all the rounds after that?

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#80 Myrvold

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 21:07

Yup! :)

#81 EightGear

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 21:09

I have to say their presentation was very impressive. They have developped a new-media strategy and put in a lot of effort into their entry.

Take a look at www.rallytheworld.com. And when their video about new media is online, you must see that too. Very nice.

And the helmet holder video on that site is just hilarious! :D

#82 ArnageWRC

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 22:42

Must agree, was pretty impressive. They seemed to want people to join them on their journey in the WRC - and to take the sport to the fans. It just makes you realise the opportunities the other Manufacturers have wasted whilst in the WRC.
They are in it to win - no half measures, no only being happy to take part; like others we could mention. As somebody tweeted, the 21st century has arrived in the WRC.

#83 eronrules

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 22:55

I have to say their presentation was very impressive. They have developped a new-media strategy and put in a lot of effort into their entry.

Take a look at www.rallytheworld.com. And when their video about new media is online, you must see that too. Very nice.

And the helmet holder video on that site is just hilarious! :D


can anyone explain to me what is the 'HELMET HOLDER' ??? at one point i thought he's the long lost father of 'The Stig'

#84 kosmic33

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 15:59

can anyone explain to me what is the 'HELMET HOLDER' ??? at one point i thought he's the long lost father of 'The Stig'

Its a joke......

#85 BigCHrome

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 20:33

That Polo looks nice, hopefully WRC is competitive this year. Series has potential as long as it's not dominated by one person.

#86 noikeee

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:56

This is all fun but I'm a little worried what we're witnessing here may be just the start of another domination era by a Sebastien...

It all depends on how good VW will be out of the box, but unless they're very rubbish (which they won't be after all those testing KMs) they'll soon develop and become competitive through their massive budget. The problem is that at the moment you look at Citroen's drivers and whilst they're the best possible you wouldn't be hugely inspired, whereas the rest of the competition are made of privateers M-Sport, uncompetitive privateers Prodrive and a huge question mark over Hyundai. This is a weakened field with VW in a brilliant position to take advantage of it.

If VW are bad, as you say Arnage "they are in this to win" so wouldn't stick for long if they're losing. I wonder if the same doesn't apply to Citroen as well who are used to sweeping everything. So we might end up in a situation where whoever loses pulls out. If it's VW who wins, then which other manufacturer would bother coming in to spend a massive budget just to keep up with them?

/pessimism

#87 ArnageWRC

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:14

Thing is, Motorsport at World Championship level is expensinve – you know that when you enter. Just because it isn’t F1 means you can do it on the cheap. However, if the returns on investment are better – than spending more is more likely.

I’ve got the feeling that sometimes new teams enter thinking it is a ‘cheap’ Motorsport – and can still cut corners – and win. You can’t – do it properly or fail. That means spending money on the best engineers, designers, R&D, drivers, etc
Spending all that money is no guarantee, but you have a much better chance of succeeding. The VW publicity on Saturday was impressive – and showed up previous attempts by other teams.

Among all the guests and previous WRC legends, there was somebody with obvious VAG connections missing – where was Walter?


#88 hotstickyslick

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 14:28

This is all fun but I'm a little worried what we're witnessing here may be just the start of another domination era by a Sebastien...

It all depends on how good VW will be out of the box, but unless they're very rubbish (which they won't be after all those testing KMs) they'll soon develop and become competitive through their massive budget. The problem is that at the moment you look at Citroen's drivers and whilst they're the best possible you wouldn't be hugely inspired, whereas the rest of the competition are made of privateers M-Sport, uncompetitive privateers Prodrive and a huge question mark over Hyundai. This is a weakened field with VW in a brilliant position to take advantage of it.

If VW are bad, as you say Arnage "they are in this to win" so wouldn't stick for long if they're losing. I wonder if the same doesn't apply to Citroen as well who are used to sweeping everything. So we might end up in a situation where whoever loses pulls out. If it's VW who wins, then which other manufacturer would bother coming in to spend a massive budget just to keep up with them?

/pessimism

One thing some forget is that Ogier was not just beaten by Loeb in 2011, but by Hirvonen too.

#89 kosmic33

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 14:32

One thing some forget is that Ogier was not just beaten by Loeb in 2011, but by Hirvonen too.

Who was quicker though?
Ogier by a mile....
Latvala will give him a good race though.

Really can't wait for Monte Carlo.
Dakar in 2 weeks, then Janner and then Monte the week after. Thank god rallying doesnt take 4 months off for the winter!

#90 noikeee

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 14:38

One thing some forget is that Ogier was not just beaten by Loeb in 2011, but by Hirvonen too.


As a #1 constantly aided by team orders, whereas Ogier was the other way around gifting positions. A better comparison is how Mikko and Ogier did compared to Loeb as team-mates, I'd take Ogier any day. Most of the points he lost were to crashes and that diminishes with experience, whereas Mikko is that "safe pair of hands", gets a consistent stream of points granted but does not have the same speed at all and won't speed up with experience.

That being said if the Citroen's a little bit quicker and more reliable than the VW, that might be enough to swing the title Mikko's hands. Which is the most likely thing next year. Once VW get their act together though...

#91 EightGear

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 16:07

2013 will be the best chance for Hirvonen. With Loeb gradually backing off, Ford a bit weakened and the Polo is still unproven. Add to that his consistency and he will be the favorite.

I think it will be between Hirvonen and Ogier. Latvala may have a chance when he stops crashing all the time. Maybe Ostberg can be a sursprise, now that he can test before the rally's.
And hopefully Sordo will finally win an event. At least on the tarmac in Germany and Spain Loeb won't be there.

Edited by EightGear, 10 December 2012 - 16:08.


#92 kosmic33

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 16:19

Maybe Ostberg can be a sursprise, now that he can test before the rally's.

But will he get that chance?
He's still a privateer, driving a car that I doubt will get any faster as the season progresses. Its not like VW and Citroen will be standing still is it?

#93 EightGear

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 16:57

But will he get that chance?
He's still a privateer, driving a car that I doubt will get any faster as the season progresses. Its not like VW and Citroen will be standing still is it?


Yes, at least he is testing today and tomorrow for Monte Carlo.

Posted Image

Posted Image


http://www.rallye-sp...tests-ce-lundi/

And Gronholm will test the Polo in Sweden.

Edited by EightGear, 10 December 2012 - 17:01.


#94 Ze Bum

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 17:16

What will happen if in the last day of Monte Loeb is leading and Hirvonen is second?

Is Citroën going to take points away from their lead driver?


#95 kosmic33

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 17:31

What will happen if in the last day of Monte Loeb is leading and Hirvonen is second?

Is Citroën going to take points away from their lead driver?

VW will be very unhappy that their 2 drivers have both crashed out!

#96 DanardiF1

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 00:37

VW will be very unhappy that their 2 drivers have both crashed out!


Well they should at least expect Latvala to fall out at some point...

I get the feeling that with Citroen and Loeb's part-time program they'll basically let him do what he wants...

#97 Myrvold

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:35

So, I'm reading that Kris Nissen will lead the Hyundai effort, with Jari Ketomaa as the testdriver!

#98 DanardiF1

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 06:47

So, I'm reading that Kris Nissen will lead the Hyundai effort, with Jari Ketomaa as the testdriver!


Ketomaa? Not the first name that would've come to my mind when thinking about someone to lead a works development program... is he still connected to DMack and, if so, does that have anything to do with that (possible) choice?



#99 DanardiF1

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 06:48

Thing is, Motorsport at World Championship level is expensinve – you know that when you enter. Just because it isn’t F1 means you can do it on the cheap. However, if the returns on investment are better – than spending more is more likely.

I’ve got the feeling that sometimes new teams enter thinking it is a ‘cheap’ Motorsport – and can still cut corners – and win. You can’t – do it properly or fail. That means spending money on the best engineers, designers, R&D, drivers, etc
Spending all that money is no guarantee, but you have a much better chance of succeeding. The VW publicity on Saturday was impressive – and showed up previous attempts by other teams.

Among all the guests and previous WRC legends, there was somebody with obvious VAG connections missing – where was Walter?


Probably driving something fast somewhere... faster than anyone else can make it go.

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#100 jcbc3

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:05

So, I'm reading that Kris Nissen will lead the Hyundai effort, with Jari Ketomaa as the testdriver!


Not having followed the story up, I always wondered what happened at VW to make Kris Nissen lose his job. Anyone knows?
And Myrvold, do you have alink for your info on the Hyundai story?