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Rally 2013


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#401 noikeee

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:14

Latvala is good in the snow,but like you said about the Monte.Sweden is a specialised event too.The only pure snow rally(or gravel-snow unlike the tarmac/snow of Monte)Then Mexico at high altitude giving some engines an advantage over others is also speacialised.Id wait till Portugal to see what the VW is really like


I agree, but from the Monte we can already see that's it's not dog slow and it's not way behind Citroen and Ford, that's a given!

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#402 DrProzac

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 20:40

I'm happy that Loeb won, because it was a well deserved first place.

#403 MadYarpen

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 21:50

I have never followed WRC to closely, but over time my interest was growing, and it isn't stopping after monte. From a perspective of an outsider I was thinking, that problem with rallying is that because of it's format it is hard to make 1. interesting 2. spectacular for a casual watcher coverage. relatively long stages, etc, etc. But I just watched this video:

And give me 5-10 such drones, couple of stationary cameras, and we can make coverage that will blow away any motorsport I can think of. In this vid I think only one camera was used, I don't know the story, probably it is more of a marketing tool, but shots over the hairpin gave me goosebump all over my body. well, almost. Brilliant thing! Two drones could show one car going all the way up here for example:
Posted Image
Just imagine! Or was it already done and I'm making fool of myself? Anyway, this is small, I don't think it would kill anyone, it could be used so much more effectively than a helicopter.


And about Loeb's influence on championship - unless he wins more than half of rounds he takes part in, I don't think it will make new champion look too bad.

Edited by MadYarpen, 25 January 2013 - 21:53.


#404 EightGear

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 00:22

It certainly is a fact that rallying has a lot op potential to outshine, like you say, all other motorsports. That's why it is increasingly frustrating to see barely any mainstream media coverage of the events. This year in a lot of countries the TV coverage has improved (before all Brits start crying again, I know your situation) so hopefully this is a sign of things to come.

Also, all daily highlightes can be found on WRC.com now.

And chances are quite big that Loeb won't win in Sweden.;)

#405 kosmic33

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 00:37

It certainly is a fact that rallying has a lot op potential to outshine, like you say, all other motorsports. That's why it is increasingly frustrating to see barely any mainstream media coverage of the events. This year in a lot of countries the TV coverage has improved (before all Brits start crying again, I know your situation) so hopefully this is a sign of things to come.

Also, all daily highlightes can be found on WRC.com now.

And chances are quite big that Loeb won't win in Sweden.;)

I watched the English language highlights (from australian tv) on youtube and I thought they were am improvement.

Have to agree with you about Sweden, it'll be hard to look past the Scandinavian trio (JML, Mikko, Mads) for the win there.
Can't Wait!!!

#406 Myrvold

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:59

The potential is there. However, it will be difficoult. They cannot keep the "sprint" format on the stages, and rallies. Not on all rallies. Even if that make it a bit easier to have cameras on the stages. And that the cameras cover more of the stages measured in percentage. You will also need rallies that are long and hard. Night stages, early morning stages. Long days. Acropolis is heading the right direction with the 14 hour day. You need bigger differences between each rally. And I don't care that Loeb doesn't like the idea of having some "enduro" rallies. You need a bit of everything. Night, long days, extremely long stages, rough roads, extremely long rallies, early mornings (after a long day with night stage). And you will need short stages, short rallies, smooth roads etc.

WRC as it is today, is a bit to similar when it comes to how the rallies are set up. I know that a rally like Tour de Corse might be a tad to dangerous for todays standards, but it created an unique challenge

#407 Myrvold

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:59

Double Post

Edited by Myrvold, 26 January 2013 - 02:00.


#408 MadYarpen

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:02

It certainly is a fact that rallying has a lot op potential to outshine, like you say, all other motorsports. That's why it is increasingly frustrating to see barely any mainstream media coverage of the events. This year in a lot of countries the TV coverage has improved (before all Brits start crying again, I know your situation) so hopefully this is a sign of things to come.

My point is, that technology is so advanced that it is easier than 10 years ago. Just somebody has to think about it.

#409 jcbc3

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:52

I think that argument is a fallacy.

The cars are faster than ten years ago, but the laws of physics are the same. That should mean that they arrive faster and with heavier breaking at certain points. Meaning the reaction time and precision has to be higher.

I grew up to appreciate Rally in the early eighties and no one will ever convince me that the generation of Röhrl, Mikkola, Blomqvist, Vatanen and Alen (and the rest of'em) were not the best ever. But that doesn't mean I can't recognise Loeb as GOAT.

All sport evolve and over time the equipment and participants improve. The legendary Hungarian football team of the fifties wouldn't stand a chance in League 2. Jimmy Conners would get a couple of bagels against in a tennis match with Federer.

#410 MadYarpen

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:56

If you are reffering to my post, I meant that technology makes producing good coverage easier, not that the sport is easier.

#411 AyrtonSauna

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:01

I have never followed WRC to closely, but over time my interest was growing, and it isn't stopping after monte. From a perspective of an outsider I was thinking, that problem with rallying is that because of it's format it is hard to make 1. interesting 2. spectacular for a casual watcher coverage. relatively long stages, etc, etc. But I just watched this video:

And give me 5-10 such drones, couple of stationary cameras, and we can make coverage that will blow away any motorsport I can think of. In this vid I think only one camera was used, I don't know the story, probably it is more of a marketing tool, but shots over the hairpin gave me goosebump all over my body. well, almost. Brilliant thing! Two drones could show one car going all the way up here for example:
Posted Image
Just imagine! Or was it already done and I'm making fool of myself? Anyway, this is small, I don't think it would kill anyone, it could be used so much more effectively than a helicopter.


And about Loeb's influence on championship - unless he wins more than half of rounds he takes part in, I don't think it will make new champion look too bad.


YES!!! Less onboard footage,More Outboard camerawork!
These drones are already in use for other sports like cricket when they would be infinitely more usefull in a sport like WRC,and atleast 1000 times cheaper than the cost,running and maintenance of a single helicopter!
It's only a matter of time till it happens.
Thanks for sharing :up:


#412 jcbc3

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:26

If you are reffering to my post, I meant that technology makes producing good coverage easier, not that the sport is easier.


I was and is now feeling just a slightly bit stoopid. :wave:

#413 MadYarpen

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:09

I was and is now feeling just a slightly bit stoopid. :wave:

:kiss:


#414 beefree88

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 14:27

My point is, that technology is so advanced that it is easier than 10 years ago. Just somebody has to think about it.

Thing is somebody has to pay it. I think it would be much more expensive than F1, with a lot less payback . There are other problems too. Many drivers are there out on a stage at once, especially on long ones. Also most of the stages are not that open. I hope though that a solution will be found.

#415 EightGear

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 14:44

Not all stages have to be covered completely. One stage (per dag) live, a relatively short one would be great already.

Just today, in Sweden there was a rallysprint, LIVE on Swedish TV and streamed via the internet. If such a small event can do something like that, God knows why WRC can't.

#416 DrProzac

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 16:50

About coverage - onboards are ok, but they're often showing them only from them same spot all the time. It's good for comparing, but more variety would be welcome.

Drones - great idea. Though shame they're not fast enough to follow the cars a bit.
The video was "the making of" - is there a final version?

#417 MadYarpen

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 17:05

no idea, i found it on twitter, on vw profile. hopefully there will be more.

#418 WonderboyF1

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 00:49

When the Wrc was on Dave, i tended to watch it now and again, it was well put together and very much aimed at the casual viewer like myself, it was also well advertised. Now i dont even know what channel Wrc is on, also Dave was available on Freeview which must of boosted viewing figures massively.

#419 BRG

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:20

Now i dont even know what channel Wrc is on

No channel, at least not in the UK. Which is ridiculous. The promoters don't seem to have the sense to give the coverage away free, in order to build up interest so that they can charge in the future.

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#420 noikeee

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:20

I don't know if anyone noticed but Round 2 of the ERC starts today, the Liepaja-Ventspils Rally in Latvia, snow-over-gravel type of surface.

There's 7 S2000s entries:

Jari Ketomaa (Ford)
Craig Breen (Peugeot)
François Delecour (Peugeot)
Jan Cerny (Skoda)
Antonin Tlustak (Skoda)
Raimond Kisiels (Mini)
Janos Puskadi (Skoda)

And a shitload of Evos and Imprezas.

Qualifying Stage results:
1 Ketomaa/Lindström (Ford Fiesta RRC)
 2m44.8s
2 Lukyanuk/Arnautov (Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X) 2m45.6s
3 Gryazin/Chumak (Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX R4) 2m46.5s
4 Plangi/Sarapuu (Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X R4) 2m46.8s
5 Švedas/Sakalauskas (Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X) 2m48.0s
6 Breen/Moynihan (Peugeot 207 S2000) 2m49.3s
7 Kisiels/Ronis (MINI John Cooper Works RRC) 2m50.1s
8 Delecour/Savignoni (Peugeot 207 S2000) 2m51.3s
9 Černy/Kohout (ŠKODA Fabia S2000) 2m51.9s
10 Orsák/Šmeidler (Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX) 2m56.7s
11 Tlusťák/Vyoral (ŠKODA Fabia S2000) 2m57.7s
12 Puskádi/Gódor (ŠKODA Fabia S2000) 2m59.3s

First 3 stages start today at 17:10, just not sure which timezone.

#421 noikeee

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:28

Obviously nobody cares, but for the record Ketomaa won the rally...

#422 DrProzac

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 18:15

Well, I'll watch the highlights when I find time. Which is hard lately :)

#423 ArnageWRC

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 18:46

Obviously nobody cares, but for the record Ketomaa won the rally...


Some of us do, but it's the same 4,5,6 posters all the time. I feels as if I'm wasting my time posting on the Rally thread.

To me, it says it all, that there's more interest in 'non events' of F1 car launches than in proper live Motorsport with people on here. We've had Dakar, Jannerrallye, Dubai24, Rallye Monte-Carlo, Daytona24 and Rallye Liepaja-Ventspils - and the F1 launches have had more interest.


#424 Lord_Shaitan

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 18:59

Some of us do, but it's the same 4,5,6 posters all the time. I feels as if I'm wasting my time posting on the Rally thread.

To me, it says it all, that there's more interest in 'non events' of F1 car launches than in proper live Motorsport with people on here. We've had Dakar, Jannerrallye, Dubai24, Rallye Monte-Carlo, Daytona24 and Rallye Liepaja-Ventspils - and the F1 launches have had more interest.

Maybe it's hard to believe for you but for some of us launches of the new F1 cars is the best part of the season. For me it's definately one of the highlights of the F1 season.

#425 Muppetmad

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 19:05

I think we'll see more interest for the next rally, that's when the action seems due to kick off. I know that if Kubica competes as is anticipated, I'll be following the season closely from here-on-out.

#426 DrProzac

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 19:14

Daytona24

Ah, Daytona 24. Another race I used to watch with pleasure which I had no time to watch this year ;)

I think there are people who follow rallying but don't always bother posting. But sure this thread would use more interest, as well as rallying itself.

As for the launches, the fun really starts when the cars hit the track during testing. Some detailed photos, usually specifications closer to the real deal etc.

Edited by DrProzac, 04 February 2013 - 19:15.


#427 Myrvold

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 00:47

20 WRC cars on the entry list for Rally Sweden. Not too bad!

#428 kosmic33

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 21:18

Obviously nobody cares, but for the record Ketomaa won the rally...

Like a few others, I kept an eye on the times but to be honest, the Galway Rally in Ireland was more appealing to me - Keith Cronin won 1st time out in a WRC car beating Donnelly and Jennings!

#429 DanardiF1

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 00:35

Obviously nobody cares, but for the record Ketomaa won the rally...


Does Ketomaa run DMACK tyres in the ERC as well?

#430 rhukkas

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 00:37

So let me get this straight. Loeb isn't doing the full championship? Just a few rounds?

So he comes in, makes everyone look like dorks, and goes home for a few months. Hardly going to get a 'worthwhile' championship now are we.

#431 DanardiF1

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 00:50

So let me get this straight. Loeb isn't doing the full championship? Just a few rounds?

So he comes in, makes everyone look like dorks, and goes home for a few months. Hardly going to get a 'worthwhile' championship now are we.


This year is all about who comes 2nd when Loeb's in the rally, and who wins when he's not. Ogier knew that from day 1 of the Monte, and he's my tip for the title.

#432 skywing

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:22

Does Ketomaa run DMACK tyres in the ERC as well?

Yes he does.

#433 noikeee

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:49

Well, I'll watch the highlights when I find time. Which is hard lately :)


I'm sort of the same, I've been watching 5 mins of the Eurosport Latvia highlights every morning as I take breakfast, at this rate I'll finish by next week. :drunk:

Some of us do, but it's the same 4,5,6 posters all the time. I feels as if I'm wasting my time posting on the Rally thread.

To me, it says it all, that there's more interest in 'non events' of F1 car launches than in proper live Motorsport with people on here. We've had Dakar, Jannerrallye, Dubai24, Rallye Monte-Carlo, Daytona24 and Rallye Liepaja-Ventspils - and the F1 launches have had more interest.


I feel the same frustration but keep in mind this board started about F1 and only later became the Autosport board, even then Autosport the magazine is very F1 centric. It's normal for other categories to be secondary here - if you want lots of Rally debate there's some forums out there dedicated to Rallying only.

#434 Ian G

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:06

I think there are people who follow rallying but don't always bother posting. But sure this thread would use more interest, as well as rallying itself.


I would fall into that category,i always read this thread but F-1 is my real passion despite competing in Rallies for over 10 years.There is a distinct lack of interest(IMO) in the WRC even on dedicated Rally Forums but it's popularity will bounce back again but may need a Reg. or 2 changed before that happens.

#435 seahawk

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:10

I am interested in Rally, but the ERC is not of much interest to me.

#436 MadYarpen

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 10:36

sweden qualy time
1. Sébastien Ogier 1.51,357
2. Mads Østberg 1.52,257
3. Mikko Hirvonen 1.52,921
4. Pontus Tidemand 1.53,805
5. Juho Hänninen 1.53,918
6. Jari-Matti Latvala 1.54,062
7. Thierry Neuville 1.54,394
8. Sébastien Loeb 1.54,825
9. Jewgienij Nowikow 1.55,550
10. Dani Sordo 1.56,144
11. Martin Prokop 1.57,071
12. Jari Ketomaa 1.57,554
13. Henning Solberg 1.58,081
14. Khalid al-Qassimi 1.58,187
15. Matthew Wilson 2.01,538
16. Michał Kościuszko 2.01,662

#437 skywing

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 10:37

sweden qualy time
1. Sébastien Ogier 1.51,357
2. Mads Østberg 1.52,257
3. Mikko Hirvonen 1.52,921
4. Pontus Tidemand 1.53,805
5. Juho Hänninen 1.53,918
6. Jari-Matti Latvala 1.54,062
7. Thierry Neuville 1.54,394
8. Sébastien Loeb 1.54,825
9. Jewgienij Nowikow 1.55,550
10. Dani Sordo 1.56,144
11. Martin Prokop 1.57,071
12. Jari Ketomaa 1.57,554
13. Henning Solberg 1.58,081
14. Khalid al-Qassimi 1.58,187
15. Matthew Wilson 2.01,538
16. Michał Kościuszko 2.01,662


BTW Nikara had an off in shakedown and because of that no QS for him...


#438 skywing

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 18:59

Start order: 1st Nikara, 2nd Kosciuszko, 3rd Wilson, 4th Al Qassimi, 5th H Solberg, 6th Ketomaa, 7th Prokop, 8th Sordo, 9th Novikov, 10th Loeb, 11th Neuville, 12th Latvala, 13th Hanninen, 14th Tidemand, 15th Hirvonen, 16th Ostberg, 17th Ogier

#439 artista

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:28

Loeb leading after SS1

It's my favourite rally of the year: I love to see the rally cars in the snow. :)

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#440 DrProzac

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:15

I wonder how will Ogier do. But taking the statistics into account, we can expect a Scandinavian to win :) And if not, than Loeb.

#441 tormave

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:37

I wonder how will Ogier do. But taking the statistics into account, we can expect a Scandinavian to win :) And if not, than Loeb.

Ogier almost binned it already on stage 1, but was able to continue and lost only 2.5 sec.

#442 MadYarpen

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:53

- awesome shakedown highlights in HD
- thursday highlights

#443 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:46

It's tough to get any WRC coverage in the U.S.
Loeb must be just a superior driver to all others. I'm sure they're happy he's only doing a few races. I remember back around 2001-02? [when Speedvision had wrc] that Loeb had Colin McRea and Carlos Sainz as teamates at Citroen against Marcus Gronholm and maybe Marko Martin in Peugeots?? Richard Burns in I think a Subaru. Ford had some players as well.Loeb is a deserving mulitple champion. I hope he does something at LeMans.
Those where the days.Back when Speed actualy gave a shit.

#444 seahawk

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:12

The Polo sound reminds me of the old Quattros. The wastegate sound is quite similar. Love it.

#445 tormave

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:01

... and lo and behold, live timing is a random number genrator again. Matt Wilson was shown to be 1:37 ahead of Nikara on stage two second split. Now he's shown to be almost 5 minutes behind at the end. On a 15km stage the latter is believable if he had a problem, but the split time (which is now missing) just couldn't have been right.

EDIT: this looks to have been the only glitch, so compared to Monte this is excellent!

Edited by tormave, 08 February 2013 - 08:27.


#446 seahawk

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:16

I think it looks more and more like the Polo is capable to really fight with hte Fords and Citroens.

Edited by seahawk, 08 February 2013 - 08:17.


#447 tormave

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:25

Al Qassimi, Wilson and Hirvonen all went off the road on SS2. Wilson and Al Qassimi reached the finish, but apparently Hirvonen has gone off twice and is now stuck on stage at the second exit he took where apparently there are no spectators to help.

EDIT: Mikko has dug his car out of the snow and is running towards the finish. He's out of contention for top spots, but will probably get some points if there's attrition amongst the WRC runners
EDIT: Mikko only ran off the road once, but rolled the car far out of the road into the snow bank; it took 20 mins for spectators to dig the car onto the road again

Östberg has engine problems (overheating, car is leaking coolant). The young Swede Tideman was fast again.

EDIT: Östberg has repaired the leak during the short run towards SS3

Polo took a 1-2 on stage 2, the car looks to be blindingly fast, but of course Latvala and Ogier are fast drivers too.

Edited by tormave, 08 February 2013 - 09:26.


#448 MadYarpen

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:32

One more rally like that and citroen will be really scratching their heads. Of course it is only begining, but still...

#449 skywing

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:52

Another stage, another Finn in the snowbank. Nikara off.

Edited by skywing, 08 February 2013 - 08:52.


#450 MadYarpen

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:01

I really like Mikko, but damn, he can't drive like that....