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Why is Button so highly rated?


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#51 P123

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:59

Ah, nothing changes - I remember a thread from back before he'd won anything which had the delightful title of "Does Jense worth all these fuzz?"
If all the parts fall into place next year and McLaren can stop dropping the ball (both medium sized IFs, I'll grant you) I can easily see him taking another WDC.


Yep. JB may have a weakness in quali and with certain aspects of tyre management, but in the races he is generally a match for any of them. Defeated JV in the same car, best of the rest behind the dominant Ferraris in 2004, WDC 2009, second in the championship in 2011 defeating another WDC teammate along the way... He's not quite as good/fast as Hamilton, but there is no shame in that, and there is no shame in him winning in a dominant car; doing such never harmed the reputations of Schumacher or Vettel yet JB seems to be dismissed because of it. :well:

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#52 Wander

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 19:02

I think Button has his greatest chance since 2009 to win the championship next year, reasoning being that with Hamilton gone he will surely be the leading driver in the team - I just can't see Checo matching him - and if McLaren produces the fastest car (again) next year. Button just needs to not have the kind of off-period he suffered mid-season this year and he can challenge absolutely anyone.

But yeah, I think I rate him as the 5th or 6th best driver on the grid, which is still good, of course.

Edited by Wander, 27 November 2012 - 19:03.


#53 Raikkonen94

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 19:07

Button is obviously a great driver, but I don't rate him as the best out there. For me the drivers who are currently the best in F1 are Raikkonen, Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso. These are to me also the most talented drivers on the grid. Sometimes the number of WDC's don't say how good you are..

#54 StefanArak

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 19:29

I hate when someone's response to my post is like this person hasn't read it at all.

Yeah, Lewis shoulda coulda woulda whatever.

3 years is enough to make any variables have pretty little impact on the final outcome between the drivers. If you rate Lewis as a top driver, you also should rate Button pretty high, because he has outscored Lewis as a team-mate over such a long period of time. As I mentioned earlier, it doesn't mean Button is better driver, but he can't be that far away from Lewis if he managed to do this.


3 years or approx ~60 races is a long time in real terms, but in statistical terms it's a tiny sample. From a mathematical point of view, it does very little to discount variance.

#55 olliek88

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 19:31

Because he is a bloody good driver.

He's far from the quickest (He admits this himself) and he does have a sensitive driving style which can combine to pretty average qualifying positions but he is one of the most intelligent, he, more than most i believe, makes the right decisions when decisions need to be made and he is one of the fairest racers out there which means he rarely DNFs, he hardly ever makes point costing mistakes and when he needs to he is a seriously good overtaker. Also, we've all seen that if you give him a well balanced car he is one of the very best, but if you don't give him a well balanced car his sensitivity will help tell you what needs changing and improving.

Oh, and who can blame JB for trying to woo the british hacks, Hamilton has found out how much of a pain they can be if you get on the wrong side of them, its for his own good ultimately.

Edited by olliek88, 27 November 2012 - 19:43.


#56 TurboF1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 19:33

Button is a really good, but not great driver. Definitely in the top 25% on the grid. When he's on it, he's on it, and very tough to beat. Typically can be strong in races, qualifying, not so much. His style is not my cup of tea, I just can't bring myself to support a driver that has as many glaring weaknesses (lack of adaptability, always having "balance" issues", can get lost on setup too often for my liking) as he does. His spell in the Brawn summed up what would happen when you put one of the really good drivers on the grid in the overall best car. That he failed to get anywhere near as much out of this years McLaren as his teammate is why I can't get fully behind him. With Lewis, Vettel and Fernando, you never really wonder if the car had much more (if anything) to give. Unless Perez outperforms Jenson in qualifying the way Lewis has this year, then you'll have pretty solid evidence that the car is not being maximized. If Button was the lead driver for McLaren this year, and they a lesser driver than Jenson in it, the general consensus wouldve been that the McLaren was a good, but not a great car.

Edited by TurboF1, 27 November 2012 - 19:34.


#57 velgajski1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 19:37

Lately after JB's win in Brazil I have seen on few sites and personal colleagues suggesting Button could win the 2013 championship. Personally I don't see that happening, unless Mclaren build a rocketship like the Brawn of 2009. However, despite that the car this season was the best/fastest car but reliability issues hampered it down. Moreover, Button stated 2012 was the worst year yet the Mclaren was the fastest Mclaren in the last 3 years he has had. This doesn't boost well for next season right? In a car that was one of the best on majority of the races, Button was outraced and outqualified by Hamilton, and even lapped at the Canadian Grand Prix. For these reasons I personally don't see Button winning the 2013 championship. Sure he's a good driver but he isn't as consistent and unlike drivers like Alonso cannot adapt to changing circumstances requiring a car to his liking and balance. Leading to the famous 'grip' tag.

For these reasons I personally do not see why Button is highly rated.


Button won a lot of races in tricky conditions + he showed he can be utterly dominant when the car is right. Also, he has won a WDC title if that means anything these days.

#58 Der Pate

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 19:52

Unless you're 10 years old, you should be open to that possibility yes. And in 2008 it wasn't Massa no, it was Kubica/Alonso.


I´m tired of these threats and arguments, which seem to be created, only to determine, that Hamilton is the greatest driver of all times, which he is certainly not...

#59 PinkZepStones

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:06

God knows, good on his day, but then so was trulli in monaco 04, and rosberg in china 2012, both with less chances then Buttons had in a race winable mclaren for three years,

I am very much a fan of how people say that senna only lost on points to prost cause of retirements and totally annihalated him, but, hamiltons retirements were totally self caused and Button is more then a match for him if not better.


Button is a poor qualifier and a wimpy wheel to wheel racer, if he hasnt won the race due to others retirements or changing his tyres, then he finishes sixth to 8th having been stuck behind a slower car all race, distinctly average is mr button.


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#60 Dalton007

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:09

Button is a very reliable driver. Hardly gets involved in incidents. Incredible overtaker and very fair in battles. Although he's not the quickest, he's still bloody good. I rate him just below Lewis, Fernando and Seb. I think he's as good as Kimi, though. He's an overly sensitive driver that drives his fans up the wall, but on his day he's a formidable opponent. Most teams would want Jenson in their team. I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari or Red Bull come knocking in the twilight of his career.

Edited by Dalton007, 27 November 2012 - 20:10.


#61 Dalton007

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:10

God knows, good on his day, but then so was trulli in monaco 04, and rosberg in china 2012, both with less chances then Buttons had in a race winable mclaren for three years,

I am very much a fan of how people say that senna only lost on points to prost cause of retirements and totally annihalated him, but, hamiltons retirements were totally self caused and Button is more then a match for him if not better.


Button is a poor qualifier and a wimpy wheel to wheel racer, if he hasnt won the race due to others retirements or changing his tyres, then he finishes sixth to 8th having been stuck behind a slower car all race, distinctly average is mr button.


:lol:

#62 Jejking

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:11

Earth mainly.

Source wanted, mainly. And that means: not your big thumb.

Edited by Jejking, 27 November 2012 - 20:12.


#63 olliek88

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:13

Button is a poor qualifier and a wimpy wheel to wheel racer, if he hasnt won the race due to others retirements or changing his tyres, then he finishes sixth to 8th having been stuck behind a slower car all race, distinctly average is mr button.


:rolleyes:

There's a difference between "wimpy-ness" and intelligence/knowing when your beaten.




EDIT: 3:22 in is my personal fave.

Edited by olliek88, 27 November 2012 - 20:18.


#64 Con1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:24

Simple question. There were 6 world champions on the grid this year. You could afford to hire one for your team. Hands up how many spend the cash securing JB on a contract? And all those with their hands up...I suggest you up your meds.

Of the 6 he would be my 5th choice. And that's only cos Schumi is as old as me and I know how rough I feel in the morning...

#65 Peter Perfect

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:33

Simple question. There were 6 world champions on the grid this year. You could afford to hire one for your team. Hands up how many spend the cash securing JB on a contract? And all those with their hands up...I suggest you up your meds.

Of the 6 he would be my 5th choice. And that's only cos Schumi is as old as me and I know how rough I feel in the morning...

Simple question. Who said that he was the best on the grid? (I only ask because to the best of my knowledge no Buttons fans regard him as such so I'm curious to see who it is who's posting it everywhere)

#66 PinkZepStones

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:38

Peter Perfect im assuming its cause of the whole Button outscoring Hamilton affair and a hell of a lot of jumped up Buttonites and or Anti-Hamiltons that pounced on the fact.

#67 maverick69

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:49

Because he's fast, reliable, a WDC, and a nice bloke?

#68 bub

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:51

Source wanted, mainly. And that means: not your big thumb.


Do a survey if you like.

Where do you think most people would rate him?

#69 Rinehart

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:52

With the greatest respect to the people who don't rate Button, you've really got to fully understand what the challenge of F1 is about to fully appreciate how good Jenson Button is. This is a sport where speed is only one of the attributes required and even in that area he's hardly lacking and indeed shown he's as good as anyone on many occasions. But the sport is not a contest so see who is the fastest over a lap, it's to see who can amass the most points over 20 races and for that a far deeper strength than raw talent is needed.

What really puts him up there is that this is a team sport, a sport of decisions and a sport of mental and technical challenge and in All those areas Jenson is excellent. It is not a fluke that he avoids so many crashes, so many penalties, wins so many chaotic races and scores so many points. He knows how to get it done.

This will baffle and irritate people who can't see past a worst case example of pace. So what. The points are in the bag to prove what I'm talking about.

#70 sofarapartguy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:54

Peter Perfect im assuming its cause of the whole Button outscoring Hamilton affair and a hell of a lot of jumped up Buttonites and or Anti-Hamiltons that pounced on the fact.

So JB outscored Ham. Big deal.

#71 PinkZepStones

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:01

With the greatest respect to the people who don't rate Button, you've really got to fully understand what the challenge of F1 is about to fully appreciate how good Jenson Button is. This is a sport where speed is only one of the attributes required and even in that area he's hardly lacking and indeed shown he's as good as anyone on many occasions. But the sport is not a contest so see who is the fastest over a lap, it's to see who can amass the most points over 20 races and for that a far deeper strength than raw talent is needed.

What really puts him up there is that this is a team sport, a sport of decisions and a sport of mental and technical challenge and in All those areas Jenson is excellent. It is not a fluke that he avoids so many crashes, so many penalties, wins so many chaotic races and scores so many points. He knows how to get it done.

This will baffle and irritate people who can't see past a worst case example of pace. So what. The points are in the bag to prove what I'm talking about.



See im of a different view, im of the view if theres a chance at the championship thats when driver show their true colours, and when nothing is at stake, true champions falter by the lack of competition.

Now tell me, Mclaren was capable between 2010-2012 of the championship in two of those years, what both of those competitive, title challenging years have is the one of the drivers in Mclaren remained with a chance of the title longer then the other by at least an entire race, thats a lot of nice words youve said about Button....................... was it him?


" There are lies, then there are damn lies, and then there are statistics"

Edited by MightyMoose, 27 November 2012 - 23:08.
I suggest the Pro-button lobby stop watching races and update themselves with wikipedia results as actual driving and misfortune and ability under pressure and luck mean nothing to them. <-I suggest you stop the group baiting


#72 trogggy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:13

See im of a different view, im of the view if theres a chance at the championship thats when driver show their true colours, and when nothing is at stake, true champions falter by the lack of competition.

Now tell me, Mclaren was capable between 2010-2012 of the championship in two of those years, what both of those competitive, title challenging years have is the one of the drivers in Mclaren remained with a chance of the title longer then the other by at least an entire race, thats a lot of nice words youve said about Button....................... was it him?


" There are lies, then there are damn lies, and then there are statistics"

Why does it bother you so much?

Edited by MightyMoose, 27 November 2012 - 23:09.
Removed: Pinks silly grouping which was deleted as it's baiting


#73 TurboF1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:13

So JB outscored Ham. Big deal.



Funny how he scored more points, yet has less wins, less poles, and hasnt been a realistic candidate for the WDC in his 3 years at McLaren, vs his teammate who was in 2 years out of 3. I wasnt aware that there was a 3 year WDC table. Here I thought all the drivers started each year on 0 points, and the rankings are determined by who amassed the most points by the end of each race year. Behind his teammate 2-1 there also.

#74 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:14

Finally a topic like this. Jenson is a driver who is as good as his car. He has nothing extraordinairy like Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso have. When his car is great, he can be unbeatable (look at Spa). But when his car is just slightly out of balance, Jenson gets knocked out in Q2.

He is only world champion because he had the best car for seven races and won six of them. His teammate back then had a car which was wrongly set up for him (particularly his brakes), otherwise Rubens would have been the 2009 champion and not Jenson. When Rubens got better brakes, he comfortably beat Jenson as he did in 2008.

Jenson is a good driver, but not world class. An ideal second driver, similar to a Massa or a Webber. I can't see him leading McLaren next year, he has never shown real leadership anyway.

#75 PinkZepStones

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:14

Why does it bother you so much?


Im not a fan of Injustice.

#76 ForeverF1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:16

This thread is not a clone of the Jenson vs Lewis thread. Please leave comparisons out of this thread.

#77 rijole1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:18

Earth mainly.

:lol:

Why is Button so highly rated? -
Maybe because he has won one WDC and he's so charming
Maybe not the best, but he is a really good driver

#78 gerry nassar

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:20

So the world-championship is nonsense as well?


That's just being silly. Isolating a head to head battle and determining that Lewis perhaps lost 100 points due to mechanical failures and also factoring any points Button lost to mechanical failures - and then comparing their points tally is a perfectly legitimate thing to do. It doesn't impact the WDC standings but its a good indicator of each drivers performance relative to the other.

#79 trogggy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:21

Im not a fan of Injustice.

Injustice? :lol: :lol: :lol:

It's not fair if someone rates Button higher than you do? :confused:

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#80 Lazy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:24

Smiley's - A replacement for justification since 1995. :)

Yeah, but sometimes a post is so daft all you can do is :lol:

Edited by Lazy, 27 November 2012 - 21:25.


#81 trogggy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:24

Jenson Button outscored Lewis in points over three years, that injustice.

:rotfl:

Comedy gold. :up:

#82 ForeverF1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:28

Hmmm, 'Why is Button so highly rated?' Maybe it is because he took on the Lion in his own den and the Lion left? Figuratively speaking of course.

#83 P123

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:37

An awful lot of Hamilton fans on this thread... 3 years of head scratching is to be followed by a decade of letting it go I imagine...


Not really because there isn't anything to 'let go'. Maybe for some who think JB is crap, or for others who desperately hang onto the points tally over 3 seasons as the only thing that matters. A shame that you and others are perhaps seeking to turn it into yet another Lh/JB fan bickerfest. JB's career began long before 2010.

Edited by P123, 27 November 2012 - 21:39.


#84 PinkZepStones

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:39

Was gonna explain why hes so highly rated before i went to type on the keyboard and had no grip.

#85 TurboF1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:40

Simple question. There were 6 world champions on the grid this year. You could afford to hire one for your team. Hands up how many spend the cash securing JB on a contract? And all those with their hands up...I suggest you up your meds.

Of the 6 he would be my 5th choice. And that's only cos Schumi is as old as me and I know how rough I feel in the morning...



Nail. Hammer. Head. Says it all in a nutshell.

Edited by TurboF1, 27 November 2012 - 21:42.


#86 Rinehart

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:41

To make my earlier point another way, if I was to clone the best aspects of Jenson and for example Lewis to create the ultimate driver, I would take Lewis' raw speed and some of his confidence and basically every single other aspect from Jenson.

In most sports no single athlete ever has the full set as it were.

#87 Rinehart

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:42

Not really because there isn't anything to 'let go'. Maybe for some who think JB is crap, or for others who desperately hang onto the points tally over 3 seasons as the only thing that matters. A shame that you and others are perhaps seeking to turn it into yet another Lh/JB fan bickerfest. JB's career began long before 2010.


I don't think Jenson fans can be blamed for this thread.

#88 P123

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:43

Jenson Button outscored Lewis in points over three years, that injustice.


Why? That's F1 for you. Look at 2008. Rubens 11 points, JB just 3, but it's a points tally largely skewed by a one off result at Silverstone for RB.

#89 TurboF1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:45

To make my earlier point another way, if I was to clone the best aspects of Jenson and for example Lewis to create the ultimate driver, I would take Lewis' raw speed and some of his confidence and basically every single other aspect from Jenson.

In most sports no single athlete ever has the full set as it were.


Inability to drive around problems, not very adaptable, Tendency to get lost on setup, constant balance issues? Lesser killer instinct? Good luck.

Edited by TurboF1, 27 November 2012 - 21:47.


#90 ForeverF1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:47

Inability to drive around problems, Tendency to get lost on setup, constant balance issues? Lesser killer instinct? Good luck.

Is this your reason why Button is so highly rated?

#91 Rinehart

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:49

Inability to drive around problems, not very adaptable, Tendency to get lost on setup, constant balance issues? Lesser killer instinct? Good luck.


Better than an ability to drive into problems, not very smart, tendency to lose the plot, constant strategic issues, too hot headed.
I think.

#92 TurboF1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:57

Is this your reason why Button is so highly rated?


Lately after JB's win in Brazil I have seen on few sites and personal colleagues suggesting Button could win the 2013 championship. Personally I don't see that happening, unless Mclaren build a rocketship like the Brawn of 2009. However, despite that the car this season was the best/fastest car but reliability issues hampered it down. Moreover, Button stated 2012 was the worst year yet the Mclaren was the fastest Mclaren in the last 3 years he has had. This doesn't boost well for next season right? In a car that was one of the best on majority of the races, Button was outraced and outqualified by Hamilton, and even lapped at the Canadian Grand Prix. For these reasons I personally don't see Button winning the 2013 championship. Sure he's a good driver but he isn't as consistent and unlike drivers like Alonso cannot adapt to changing circumstances requiring a car to his liking and balance. Leading to the famous 'grip' tag.

For these reasons I personally do not see why Button is highly rated.


The OPs question is actually phrased in the negative. He doesn't see why Button is so highly rated, and stated as much & provided examples as to why he has a hard time seeing Button being so highly rated. I can see his reasons. I think there are at least 4 (Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, Kimi) drivers on the grid that any team principal would have in their car over him. Jensons a damned fine driver on his day, no doubt, but with all the evidence of his shortcomings, I don't rate him as high as some would, thats for sure.

#93 P123

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 22:05

Well this is turning into another JB V LH... but yeah, you'd take JB's race planning and attitude outside the car, and combine it with everything else of Hamilton; speed, consistancy, setup ability.

If anything, maybe it would help if more realised that there isn't much between the top drivers, which includes JB.

#94 gricey1981

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 22:06

he rated about 4 or 5th and thats about right.

He is a wdc has won many races and hate to say it done well against Lewis.

Thought it was well impressive how he gapped Lewis once he had overtaken him in brazil, when he is on song he is one of the best if not the best. Luckily or unluckily depending on how you see it, it doesnt happen very often.

Add to that jessica is incredibly hot.

#95 krod

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 22:07

...all things being equal.


They were...

#96 ayali

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 22:11

Jenson Button outscored Lewis in points over three years, that injustice.

That's not injustice that's reality

An F1 driver needs to have more than speed alone and Jenson has proven to be more or less the complete package.
Championship to prove it and a class A team to hire him and make him team leader in 2013


#97 TurboF1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 22:16

That's not injustice that's reality

An F1 driver needs to have more than speed alone and Jenson has proven to be more or less the complete package.
Championship to prove it and a class A team to hire him and make him team leader in 2013



Since when does the complete package not include qualifying excellence, setup excellence, ironing out supposed "balance" issues after more than a decades (!!!) experience? I'd look more towards Alonso, Vettel, and more recently Lewis as being more of the complete package.

#98 JRizzle86

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 22:27

He has won multiple races in multiple years in more than one team.

He has won the WDC and taken a team to a WCC.

Managed to be noticed by a top team after years in the midfield, signed and able to beat the guy nurtured by that very team.

He is probably one of the most talented wet weather drivers on the grid if not the best. How many times has Button been on the same tyres after everyone had rushed for inters or been the first to try slicks.

He doesn't manage to come off as an arrogant primadonna in interviews.

He is dating Jessica. :)

#99 ayali

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 22:28

I'd look more towards Alonso, Vettel, and more recently Lewis as being more of the complete package.

Alonso and Vettel are contracted hence McLaren opted for Jenson Button.
Proven champion and race winner, team leader, all around nice guy, media friendly, non controversial, twitter savvy and a great ambassador for McLaren the car company.

I get why he's so highly rated, easy :wave:

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#100 PARAZAR

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 22:32

Oh great, another boohoo thread. He's highly rated because he's a great driver. You don't stay in F1 for 12 years and get signed with one of the big teams if you're crap. In the words of Senna: " You have to know when is the moment to be aggresive, when is the moment to be calculated, when is the moment to give everything you have, when is the moment to hold everything you have."

 ;)