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Why is Button so highly rated?


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#101 rijole1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 22:44

Hmmm, 'Why is Button so highly rated?' Maybe it is because he took on the Lion in his own den and the Lion left? Figuratively speaking of course.

:up: :D Indeed he did. That really should be one more aspect to be taken into account in rating calculations...

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#102 Force Ten

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 23:08

No one rates Button in the top 3 drivers in F1, so he's not that highly rated. But just like 90% of drivers, he can win the title if the car is good enough.

This is a reply from the post of about three weeks ago, but it's just too funny to pass up. 90% can? So, Red Bull 3 WDC's. Is Webber one only the 2 and half drivers who just COULDN'T get the job done when the car was good enough? Also, Rubens, his teammates, what? 6 WDC's, he got zilch? DC... Häkkinen got 2, competed for third... DC didn't manage to get 2 consecutive race wins done... ever. Alonso 2 WDC's, Fisi 2 race wins... funny, innit?

#103 SerratedEdge

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 23:15

I like Button a lot but COME ON! Hamilton had the car fall apart so many times or the team drop the ball when in a strong position, he would have blitz jenson all things being equal.



yeh!!!!!!! Jenson wasn't let down by bad strategy calls, bungles in the pit stops or car failure all season................. :well:



..................oh hang on.....









#104 skyform

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 23:16

3 year McLaren points totals:

Button- 672
Hamilton- 657

If Button is a schlub, what does that make Hamilton?


Well if you rely only on stats, well Button was destroyed by Fisichella, yeah not just beaten but destroyed, he beat him performance wise pretty much in the same way like Hamilton this year.

#105 gm914

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 23:20

Well if you rely only on stats, well Button was destroyed by Fisichella, yeah not just beaten but destroyed, he beat him performance wise pretty much in the same way like Hamilton this year.

OMG you're right! That means Hamilton is worse than Fisichella!


#106 SerratedEdge

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 23:20

Button is a poor qualifier and a wimpy wheel to wheel racer, if he hasnt won the race due to others retirements or changing his tyres, then he finishes sixth to 8th having been stuck behind a slower car all race, distinctly average is mr button.



You didnt see the Brazilian GP in 2009, Canada 2011, or the USA Grand Prix just last week then? :confused:

#107 TurboF1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 23:21

This is a reply from the post of about three weeks ago, but it's just too funny to pass up. 90% can? So, Red Bull 3 WDC's. Is Webber one only the 2 and half drivers who just COULDN'T get the job done when the car was good enough? Also, Rubens, his teammates, what? 6 WDC's, he got zilch? DC... Häkkinen got 2, competed for third... DC didn't manage to get 2 consecutive race wins done... ever. Alonso 2 WDC's, Fisi 2 race wins... funny, innit?


See these are the people that are unrealistic, Jenson is a great driver, he just has a few niggling shortcomings that take the edge off him being one of the very best. He's definitely a lot better than most on the grid, he's definitely shown flashes of brilliance, but there's just something missing from his skillset that makes people not rate him as high as several others on the grid.

#108 TurboF1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 23:23

Alonso and Vettel are contracted hence McLaren opted for Jenson Button.
Proven champion and race winner, team leader, all around nice guy, media friendly, non controversial, twitter savvy and a great ambassador for McLaren the car company.

I get why he's so highly rated, easy :wave:


Funny, McLarens first choice to partner Lewis was KIMI, not Jenson, they settled for him when Kimi wouldnt budge on his fee and sponsor commitments. Don't let the facts get in the way of your argument i'm afraid. He's a budget WDC lol

http://www.crash.net...th_mclaren.html

Edited by TurboF1, 27 November 2012 - 23:32.


#109 BillBald

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 23:30

This topic would have been too silly to post a year ago, and in a year's time it will look equally silly.

Have fun while you can...



#110 TurboF1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 23:35

3 year McLaren points totals:

Button- 672
Hamilton- 657

If Button is a schlub, what does that make Hamilton?


As I've said before, I didnt realize that points carried over from one year to another. I was under the silly impression they RESET every year. Last time I checked, he only finished ahead of his teammate in the standings 33% of the time. How can that be considered something to celebrate?

#111 undersquare

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 23:49

Surely the argument is between Jense and Kimi for 4th best. Is that highly rate or not?

More highly rated than most, less than the top 3.

#112 MightyMoose

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 23:51

The title of the thread is fairly clear, Why is he so highly rated? It's a shame that it's slumped into JB vs LH part V with the usual suspects only here to bash and berate.

However, is being rated (by general consent) anywhere between 4th-7th on the grid excessively "highly rated"? Not in my book, there's zero shame in being considered there, along with his WDC & multiple wins, whenever his career ends he's going to have plenty to be proud of.

If I was a team principle on a fantasy land with a blank checkbook and no contracts to bother me, and "SPEED" was all that mattered, I'd not pick JB as my number 1, but would definitely look at him as an exceptional number 2 (who can easily be number 1 should the "quicker" driver suffer a meltdown), because OUTSIDE of the car which equates to a huge amount of the drivers career time he's exceptional, obviously he's not been perfect all his career, but right now as a matured, experienced professional he's almost without equal. Teams do take that kind of thing into account when they look to sign drivers you know, perhaps some of our members would rather they didn't........

His skills may not be as great on a track in certain aspects, but nearly ALL of his rivals have equally got weak spots or question marks over them. This with the body of work that JB has shown in his career says to me he's definitely not "over-rated" and fully deserves his "Top 5" ranking.




#113 HP

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 23:52

Someone mentioned that Button is next years WDC favourite. That's a pretty optimistic view. I'm pretty sure had Alonso been this year in Button's McLaren, he'd managed to win the championship. And somehow I think Ferrari has more room to improve than McLaren for next year. To me, if Vettel isn't considered the favourite for next year, then next in line is Alonso.

As I mentioned earlier, it doesn't mean Button is better driver, but he can't be that far away from Lewis if he managed to do this.

It can also be interpreted that the car was good enough for both drivers. Or it could be interpreted that Hamilton is slightly overrated.

IMO however, Button is more like a Prost type of driver. Unspectacular to watch, but nevertheless quick. The thing he lacks compared to Prost is the "Professor" attribute. If he had that, he'd not struggled that much this year with balance in certain races.



#114 DanardiF1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 23:52

For those who think Jenson is slow... did you see Spa this year, Monaco in 2009, Canada 2011 etc. etc.

Jenson has more to him than just a fast lap, and it's the reason why he's a WDC, 15-time winner and has stood on the podium 49 times.

He is very calm, very sensitive to the car in both negative and positive aspects (if he feels an imbalance or problem, the team can then work on it... a driver who just ploughs through may cause problems for themselves on race day...), a great racer, excels in conditions that challenge the driver and has had good working relationships with every team he's driven for.

I think by the time he retires he could be looking at 25+ wins, possibly another title (at least a serious challenge) and hopefully some decent recognition from fans. And when people look back and realise that they were comparing him with (admittedly fine) drivers like Mark Webber and Nico Rosberg, they might think themselves a bit silly.

#115 DanardiF1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 23:55

Surely the argument is between Jense and Kimi for 4th best. Is that highly rate or not?

More highly rated than most, less than the top 3.


Jenson is as good as Kimi IMO, and their stats are very close right now.

#116 TurboF1

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 00:04

For those who think Jenson is slow... did you see Spa this year, Monaco in 2009, Canada 2011 etc. etc.

Jenson has more to him than just a fast lap, and it's the reason why he's a WDC, 15-time winner and has stood on the podium 49 times.

He is very calm, very sensitive to the car in both negative and positive aspects (if he feels an imbalance or problem, the team can then work on it... a driver who just ploughs through may cause problems for themselves on race day...), a great racer, excels in conditions that challenge the driver and has had good working relationships with every team he's driven for.

I think by the time he retires he could be looking at 25+ wins, possibly another title (at least a serious challenge) and hopefully some decent recognition from fans. And when people look back and realise that they were comparing him with (admittedly fine) drivers like Mark Webber and Nico Rosberg, they might think themselves a bit silly.



Not that its Jensons fault, But Spa was a bit of a gift. Grosjean took out the 4 (!) cars that couldve pushed Jenson the most for the win, Both Saubers looked VERY strong that weekend, Who knows how Lewis' pace wouldve been in the race seeing as on paper his setup shouldve been as quick over a lap and Alonso wouldve been up there as well. The only other person that had a car with pace to challenge for the win was Seb, and he had to start from 11th while Jenson had nothing but open road. Jensons got his strengths, he's definitely no slouch when he gets going, and I see why some are underwhelmed by him. The people that say he's dead slow, or just very average are wrong IMO. He's got his moments of brilliance for sure.

Edited by TurboF1, 28 November 2012 - 00:05.


#117 DanardiF1

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 00:06

Not that its Jensons fault, But Spa was a bit of a gift. Grosjean took out the 4 (!) cars that couldve pushed Jenson the most for the win, Both Saubers looked VERY strong that weekend, Who knows how Lewis' pace wouldve been in the race seeing as on paper his setup shouldve been as quick over a lap and Alonso wouldve been up there as well. The only other person that had a car with pace to challenge for the win was Seb, and he had to start from 11th while Jenson had nothing but open road. Jensons got his strengths, he's definitely no slouch when he gets going, and I see why some are underwhelmed by him. The people that say he's dead slow, or just very average are wrong IMO. He's got his moments of brilliance for sure.


No-one could get near him in qualifying, and Jenson hardly broke a sweat all weekend.

#118 slmk

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 00:17

No-one could get near him in qualifying, and Jenson hardly broke a sweat all weekend.


And the only time it happened in all of 2012, despite having the quickest car over 1 lap and, at most tracks, over a race length.

#119 wepmob2000

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 00:37

I can't see him leading McLaren next year, he has never shown real leadership anyway.


Eh? :confused: I think McLaren might disagree, he's effectively been their No-1 for 2 years now, and seems to be loved by everyone at the team.....



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#120 showtime

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:14

Is he really so highly rated? IMO, from outside the UK he is rated like a good driver with his strong points but nothing really special. Maybe in the UK, him being British, it's different but I guess it's the common behaviour everywhere with the local drivers.

#121 itsademo

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:56

he is an ex-wdc driver so that demands a certain amount of respect.
However he has had far too many seasons where he has not stood out, has not made people stand up and say OMG how did he do that with that car.
A consummate professional yes
a champion yes
well above average for most F1 drivers clearly yes
But one of the very best (IMHO) no (not yet or possibly ever) he relies on the car being perfect for him or lucky calls too much of the time, rather than taking a poorly performing car and somehow getting it to places it never should have been.

In short if the car is great Jenson will be great, but only if the car is great, unlike the very best who will take a poorly performing car and get great results.
Just look at what Alonso did in the early part of the year, or Lewis in 2009 to see the difference.

#122 StefanArak

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:00

OMG you're right! That means Hamilton is worse than Fisichella!


Why? Hamilton beat Button 2 out of 3 seasons. So even though you were trolling, it's a failed attempt anyway.

#123 StefanArak

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:02

Eh? :confused: I think McLaren might disagree, he's effectively been their No-1 for 2 years now, and seems to be loved by everyone at the team.....


Bit unusual for the team No.1 to be outqualified 17-3

#124 gm914

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:13

Why? Hamilton beat Button 2 out of 3 seasons. So even though you were trolling, it's a failed attempt anyway.

Firstly- my post and the one I made before were obviously tongue-in-cheek.
Secondly- the fact people responded to them as if I was making a serious point reinforces how utterly stupid these "Driver A is better than Driver B because Driver C beat blah blah blah.." posts are.

Edited by gm914, 28 November 2012 - 03:40.


#125 Obi Offiah

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:19

To answer the thread title, it's because he really is fast and as he displayed once again in Brazil, seems to have the ability to make the correct decisions in difficult circumstances.

#126 William Hunt

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:22

he is my favourite F1 driver of the current grid. Not just because of his driving but his personality as well. And he has a cute Japanese girlfriend :)

#127 jjcale

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:53

This topic would have been too silly to post a year ago, and in a year's time it will look equally silly.

Have fun while you can...


A year ago I felt he was improving from being at Macca and had acquired the consistency to be one of the top drivers, i.e. comparable with FA ... but the set up disaster this season is not excusable.... and I now understand why he has been so inconsistent through most of his career. Cant teach an old dog new tricks it seems....

Apart from his oversensitivity, he is one of the be best because he is one the cleverest drivers (in terms of racecraft and internal team politics) on the grid.... and he does very much have a killer instinct - just ask JV and LH. His killer instinct is not about wheel to wheel determination, it is about seizing the right moment when it comes his way - whether on track or off. He looked over at LH in 2009 and saw what I saw, a very talented guy but one who was not who was not getting on with his TP, and JB he saw not just a challenge but also an opportunity which hardly anyone one else saw. He backed himself and took a calculated risk. It was like one of his famous wet weather victories.... Even as an LH fan I have to tip my hat to him.

If he gets the right circumstances, I have no doubt he would find away to win another WDC.... and I cannot say about most of the drivers - even some of those who I rate above him as pure drivers.

#128 wepmob2000

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:07

Bit unusual for the team No.1 to be outqualified 17-3


Who did Mclaren always seem happier for when he won? Who's stayed while the other driver left? No-1 status within a team isn't just about race results, and the drivers probably spend 90% of their time not racing or testing these days. I'm not criticising because it happens everywhere, and good luck to JB, but its always been pretty evident who Martin Whitmarsh's pet is.......

Its exactly the same as the situation with Alain Prost and Nigel Mansell in 1990 - no coincidence since JB and LH remind of those drivers to a large degree - driver comes into a team and wins favour over established driver, and established driver can't mentally cope with this....

If anything, rather than being overrated, I think JB is one of the more underestimated drivers on the grid, I've certainly been guilty of that in the past - I thought he was committing career suicide by moving to McLaren for 2010 :eek:

Edited by wepmob2000, 28 November 2012 - 04:18.


#129 Obi Offiah

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:17

Who did Mclaren always seem happier for when he won? Who's stayed while the other driver left? No-1 status within a team isn't just about race results, and the drivers probably spend 90% of their time not racing or testing these days. I'm not criticising because it happens everywhere, and good luck to JB, but its always been pretty evident who Martin Whitmarsh's pet is.......

Its exactly the same as the situation with Alain Prost and Nigel Mansell in 1990 - no coincidence since JB and LH remind of those drivers to a degree - driver comes into a team and wins favour over established driver, and established driver can't mentally cope with this....

He performed rather well then for someone not coping with it.

#130 wepmob2000

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:22

He performed rather well then for someone not coping with it.


He didn't do too bad did he? But he also seemed a bit crazy in 2011 at times, was obviously itching to leave McLaren, and is now leaving McLaren for Mercedes - something I'm sure he'll regret..... (I hope I'm wrong, as quite a Hamilton fan, but alas think I'm probably right).

Edited by wepmob2000, 28 November 2012 - 04:37.


#131 baddog

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:58

Jenson reminds me of Mika (not in style but in overall status).. unbeatable if the car suits him, ordinary if it does not. If the 2013 car suits him he will do very well indeed in it. the 2012 car didnt on the whole. Thats not an excuse it is a criticism.

#132 Reinmuster

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:18

Nevertheless Jensen will have Mclaren behind him because Perez just come in and will be his lapdog.

If the car next year proves to be a rocket, Jensen will be champion. 2013 gonna be his best chance to win the title with Mclaren.




#133 johnmhinds

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:13

Anyone who could push Hamilton out of McLaren must be pretty damn good.

I'm impressed with how Button is able to lead the team during tricky races, Hamilton seemed more willing to just follow orders and blame other people for tactical errors after the race.
Button will change his tactics throughout the race to suit the conditions and it has lead to some impressive wins.

His difficult time at Honda has definitely made a better driver.

#134 Rocket73

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:26

The thread should read why is button so underrated? He has always been but not from me and so many said he would get destroyed by hamilton. 3 years later and he has more points...that's 55 races or so...

If the car tyres suit him better next year and the car remains decent he could well win the WDC...

#135 sofarapartguy

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:34

Jenson reminds me of Mika (not in style but in overall status).. unbeatable if the car suits him, ordinary if it does not. If the 2013 car suits him he will do very well indeed in it. the 2012 car didnt on the whole. Thats not an excuse it is a criticism.


And still Mika is considered to be amazing driver, while Jenson is plain "ordinary". Don't you find it silly?

#136 Oho

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:34

Anyone who could push Hamilton out of McLaren must be pretty damn good.



Martin Whitmarsh? No not really, but Button, hardly.

Past season Button was almost as badly overshadowed by Hamilton as Grosjean was by Räikkönen. In 2011 he outscored and perhaps even outperformed Hamilton but even in 2011 he hardly had the answer to Hamilton's speed per say, rather he had more level head between his shoulders.

It is being pointed out how Button excels in mixed or chaotic conditions, well be that as it may but most races take place and scheduling aims at them taking place in dry consistent conditions. Thus the knack at excelling under uncertainty is of limited value alone.

#137 Frank Tuesday

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:44

Like every driver, he is both overrated and underrated. Some people overrate him and others underrate him. Both groups will cherry pick data that supports their stand. Those who overrate him are disappointed that the rest can't see that he is clearly in the top tier of drivers, and those who underrate him are astounded that anyone would think that he is any better than second tier, at best. What is the truth? He is a very good driver that has strengths and weaknesses. In some ways he is better than Driver A, and in other ways he is worse than Driver A.

#138 seahawk

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:48

But even while Lewis was superior in the 2012 season, Button kept on working. No twittergate, no stupid crashes, no insulting the team, nothing.

Button is not fast, if the car does not suit him to 100%, but if he gets such a car, he is hard to beat as the combination of cleverness, speed and control (of the car and the race) is very hard to beat over a whole season.

#139 johnmhinds

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:01

Martin Whitmarsh? No not really, but Button, hardly.

Past season Button was almost as badly overshadowed by Hamilton as Grosjean was by Räikkönen. In 2011 he outscored and perhaps even outperformed Hamilton but even in 2011 he hardly had the answer to Hamilton's speed per say, rather he had more level head between his shoulders.


Having "speed" doesn't mean anything if you're wasting races crashing into Massa...

In the last 3 seasons Button has had 6 retirements, Hamilton has retired 11 times.
And they weren't all down to mechanical failures.

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#140 Rocket73

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:04

No twittergate, no stupid crashes, no insulting the team, nothing.


A team player...

#141 H2H

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:20

A team player...


Indeed. Not that is ex-teammate isn't one but Button is very much so.

#142 Jovanotti

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:36

Sometimes I find it very hard to rate Button at all - there are races where you just don't see him, he is too tentative (against Vettel in Abu Dhabi) or just cruises around, and then there are races like Australia, Belgium or the amazing drive in Brazil. Hard to find consistency in all this.

#143 maverick69

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:40

But even while Lewis was superior in the 2012 season, Button kept on working. No twittergate, no stupid crashes, no insulting the team, nothing.


Didn't he stick it into a HRT in Malaysia?

Also, didn't he come out and say that the MP4-27 is the worst McLaren he's driven? That seems to have been swept under the carpet by most quarters though.........

He's not completely squeeky clean you know......

#144 Bloggsworth

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:06

For these reasons I personally do not see why Button is highly rated.



If you don't know there is no point trying to explain - And don't look for a job as a team manager...

#145 fenixracing

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:22

Idont like button. He is one off those sneaky ppl, like japan this year inviting all the teammembers but not lewis for a charity event. Hes one off those ppl that talk crap about you behind your back but is nice in your face.
But i got to admit he did better then i expected. This year he got trashed even if the points dont show it. Canadian gp, spain and how many races did he won when lewis dropped out from p1,just 1.
2011 he was good, but flatterd by lewis his personal problems.
Well he can be withmarsh pet next year. driving around p4 while the car shoud be on p1.
I wonder if withmarsh is gonna throw the team around to show that its not buttons team. like he did with lewis in 2010.
Because perez is not a rooki. he shoud do as good as button because lewis almost matchd alonso in his first race.
Sorry button fans i rated him good but he has a verry dark side.

#146 Disgrace

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:24

Idont like button. He is one off those sneaky ppl, like japan this year inviting all the teammembers but not lewis for a charity event. Hes one off those ppl that talk crap about you behind your back but is nice in your face.
But i got to admit he did better then i expected. This year he got trashed even if the points dont show it. Canadian gp, spain and how many races did he won when lewis dropped out from p1,just 1.
2011 he was good, but flatterd by lewis his personal problems.
Well he can be withmarsh pet next year. driving around p4 while the car shoud be on p1.
I wonder if withmarsh is gonna throw the team around to show that its not buttons team. like he did with lewis in 2010.
Because perez is not a rooki. he shoud do as good as button because lewis almost matchd alonso in his first race.
Sorry button fans i rated him good but he has a verry dark side.


Perhaps if these guys were in junior high school.

#147 skyform

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:29

OMG you're right! That means Hamilton is worse than Fisichella!


Well I wouldn't mind because I'm a Fisichella fan. :rotfl:


#148 jjcale

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:43

Martin Whitmarsh? No not really, but Button, hardly.

Past season Button was almost as badly overshadowed by Hamilton as Grosjean was by Räikkönen. In 2011 he outscored and perhaps even outperformed Hamilton but even in 2011 he hardly had the answer to Hamilton's speed per say, rather he had more level head between his shoulders.

It is being pointed out how Button excels in mixed or chaotic conditions, well be that as it may but most races take place and scheduling aims at them taking place in dry consistent conditions. Thus the knack at excelling under uncertainty is of limited value alone.


Yeah ... Whitmarsh did the pushing ... but JB had to foresight to realise that this was a real possibility and took the chance of a move to Macca. This is the main thing that I respect him for ... unless Whitmarsh told him the plan at the end of 2009, this was a gutsy call.

#149 Oho

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:51

And still Mika is considered to be amazing driver, while Jenson is plain "ordinary". Don't you find it silly?


Well the thing is, those people who think he was nowhere unless his car was perfectly tailored to suit him do not think he was amazing, rather amazingly overrated......

#150 WitnessX

WitnessX
  • Member

  • 1,134 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:58

Didn't he stick it into a HRT in Malaysia?

Also, didn't he come out and say that the MP4-27 is the worst McLaren he's driven? That seems to have been swept under the carpet by most quarters though.........

He's not completely squeeky clean you know......

He did not say that.

http://duncanblog.da...ren-claims.html