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2012 King of Overtakes is....... Sebastian Vettel!


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#1 F.M.

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:02

The 2012 WDC has also made the most overtakes this season (60). I think that shows he really had to race hard for this WDC.

Edit: source is TS: http://translate.goo.....=www.ts.fi/f1

Edited by F.M., 27 November 2012 - 16:16.


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#2 Zava

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:04

The 2012 WDC has also made the most overtakes this season (60). I think that shows he really had to race hard for this WDC.

that's because he can't pass...see the quote in my sig.

#3 Buttoneer

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:09

Reference please.

#4 matthewf1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:13

Most of these are for a team error (Abu Dhabi) and driver error (Brazil), therefore a very high percentage are back markers. The car was also modified in Abu Dhabi to aid overtaking.

Edited by matthewf1, 27 November 2012 - 16:14.


#5 Zoetrope

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:26

No doubt Vettel has proved this season that he can overtake. Webber at Spa bus chicane for example.

But quality over quantity :smoking: And that's gotta be Kimi. His move on Schumacher in Spa or again on Schumacher in Brazil was legendary. Also in Japan at the pit exit, even though he lost the battle to Lewis, he showed great skills.

#6 SpartanChas

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:29

Most overtakes sure. But in terms of quality, kimi was streets ahead.

#7 rhukkas

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:35

DRS has skewed 'overtaking' figures.

#8 sv401

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:43

DRS has skewed 'overtaking' figures.


It is not that useful for RBR in particular, though, since usually they can barely keep up with other top cars in the DRS zones with the DRS open on the RB8 and closed on the opponent's car. Even with the Abu Dhabi "overtaking optimized" setup, the top speed was only about as good as that of the Ferrari on its normal setup.

#9 Atreiu

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:47

Until he overtakes while being 5 seconds slower than the rest on three wheels on the ourtside in the rain, I won't rate him.

#10 H2H

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:05

As usually people will pop out who have a problem to deal with fact. When confronted by them they keep their bias intact and try to attack the bad reality.

Oh, they are already at work...

Edited by H2H, 27 November 2012 - 17:08.


#11 LiJu914

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:44

Until he overtakes while being 5 seconds slower than the rest on three wheels on the ourtside in the rain, I won't rate him.


Make that 6 seconds and i´m with you.

#12 itsademo

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:48

that's because he can't pass...see the quote in my sig.

nope just means he had the faster car/ faster driver & car combos failed to finish/ had technical issues/ the team messed up see lewis hamilton's race history this year.
see your sig back at you
or perhaps you should see what others here think about who the best overtaker is
http://forums.autosp...w...178332&st=0
prepair to be upset

Edited by itsademo, 27 November 2012 - 17:53.


#13 Zava

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:22

nope just means he had the faster car/ faster driver & car combos failed to finish/ had technical issues/ the team messed up see lewis hamilton's race history this year.
see your sig back at you
or perhaps you should see what others here think about who the best overtaker is
http://forums.autosp...w...178332&st=0
prepair to be upset

let's se what you wrote there:
"he can't pass even in the quickest car will he prove he can pass or prove its all about the speed of the car."
general consensus is that mclaren was the quickest car out there, so he could pass even without the quickest car. I think with that he proved that he can pass, and that it is not about the speed of the car (which, bitw is constantly one of the worst in straight line speed, which is essential for overtaking)

and prepare to be upset, I voted Kimi in that poll, me saying Vettel can overtake pretty well doesn't equal me saying Vettel is the best at overtaking.

I'm happy I kept that in my sig, it seems it caused an uncomfortable moment for you :p

#14 bourbon

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:32

Kimi ranks indisputed #1 in overtaking (imo). But Seb had to do the most this year - and he did a stellar job at it. Anyone who says overtaking backmarkers is easy forgets that some of them drive with a stick up their rear - ignoring blue flags and the like and making it overall quite difficult to pass when it suits them. Also, mid-gridders can be difficult to get by (i.e., Senna, Perez, Maldonado, Hulkenberg, Kobayashi) and often make contact.

That is why many hold their breath when the top drivers are making their way up the grid. Later of course you start to run into the impossible to pass front runners and that is more celebrated action. But don't dismiss those in the back because they travel with their own set of problems.

#15 jstrains

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:35

The best overtake of the season!


#16 joshb

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:49

Only 60, I had 55 on my ticker before Brazil (another 25 there)
Even taking out the ones on the backmarkers and STRs, still plenty.
The first few laps on Sunday were mega, he'd taken 23 cars in the first 16 laps twice coming through the field

#17 mattferg

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 19:18

nope just means he had the faster car/ faster driver & car combos failed to finish/ had technical issues/ the team messed up see lewis hamilton's race history this year.
see your sig back at you
or perhaps you should see what others here think about who the best overtaker is
http://forums.autosp...w...178332&st=0
prepair to be upset


You do know that every team apart from HRT is faster than Red Bull in the speed trap, right? Like even Marussia

#18 tomboyracer

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 19:29

You do know that every team apart from HRT is faster than Red Bull in the speed trap, right? Like even Marussia

Are you really saying the Marussia is a faster car than the Red Bull?

Really?

Edited by tomboyracer, 27 November 2012 - 19:30.


#19 Regiotap

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 19:32

In speed trap. Yes. Just look at the speed traps at all circuits.

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#20 tomboyracer

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 19:45

In speed trap. Yes. Just look at the speed traps at all circuits.

Ok cool and that would be meaningful except for the those bendy things at the end of the straights. Because the Red Bull is close to the best through those bits.

#21 Jejking

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:09

Ok cool and that would be meaningful except for the those bendy things at the end of the straights. Because the Red Bull is close to the best through those bits.

They have more downforce so better acceleration out of corners. Still Marussia/HRT beat em at the end of a straight. Gee, I wonder why it was hard for Vettel to overtake, most of the times being on different compounds to the others?

#22 mattferg

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:16

Ok cool and that would be meaningful except for the those bendy things at the end of the straights. Because the Red Bull is close to the best through those bits.


Yeah... except most overtakes are done on a straight or diving into a corner when ahead in a straight. Which you can't do if your car is slower on a straight. Duh!

#23 mnmracer

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:23

In speed trap. Yes. Just look at the speed traps at all circuits.

There have been tracks where even the HRTs had higher straight-line speed.

#24 tomboyracer

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:23

Yeah... except most overtakes are done on a straight or diving into a corner when ahead in a straight. Which you can't do if your car is slower on a straight. Duh!

Where the overtake happens is sort of moot when your car is 2-3 seconds a lap faster.

#25 tifosiMac

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:25

Where the overtake happens is sort of moot when your car is 2-3 seconds a lap faster.

Indeed. When your car is faster in the slow speed corners and gets a better exit than a car faster on a straight, it evens up pretty nicely.

#26 mnmracer

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:46

I don't have the numbers of Brazil yet, but it won't change much.

Up to Brazil 2012, the total number of overtakes:
Lewis Hamilton: 48
Sebastian Vettel: 45
Fernando Alonso: 36

Up to Brazil 2012, the total number of 'equal' overtakes (tires no more than 5 laps fresher):
Sebastian Vettel: 23
Lewis Hamilton: 21
Fernando Alonso: 17

Up to Brazil 2012, the total number of 'equal' overtakes excluding Caterham, Marussia and HRT:
Sebastian Vettel: 17
Fernando Alonso: 17
Lewis Hamilton: 15

Edited by mnmracer, 27 November 2012 - 22:27.


#27 DarthWillie

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:54

Ah the sadness brigade is out again, lets talk down everything Vettel does. :down:
Sure there were some easy overtakes but also the great ones like on button in Abu Dhabi ( might have saved his wdc) or the ones in the bus stop in spa.

#28 motorhead

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 22:19

Alonso proved in Austin that he can overtake Ferrari before race has even started...that´s quite unique so he is the king!

Edited by motorhead, 27 November 2012 - 22:21.


#29 mnmracer

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 22:32

Again, Brazil still pending, but the number of on-track overtakes only on Red Bulls, Ferraris, McLarens, Renaults and Mercedes'.

Up to Brazil 2012, the total number of 'top car' overtakes:
Lewis Hamilton: 22 (out of 48 total; 48%)
Sebastian Vettel: 21 (out of 45 total; 47%)
Fernando Alonso: 14 (out of 36 total; 39%)

Up to Brazil 2012, the total number of 'equal' 'top car' overtakes (tires no more than 5 laps fresher):
Sebastian Vettel: 11 (out of 23 total; 48%)
Lewis Hamilton: 11 (out of 21 total; 52%)
Fernando Alonso: 7 (out of 17 total; 41%)

#30 DanardiF1

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 00:05

Yeah... except most overtakes are done on a straight or diving into a corner when ahead in a straight. Which you can't do if your car is slower on a straight. Duh!


But if your car has more downforce and better suspension etc. it will be a hell of a lot more stable under braking, making an overtake much easier going into a corner.

#31 gillesthegenius

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 00:42

But if your car has more downforce and better suspension etc. it will be a hell of a lot more stable under braking, making an overtake much easier going into a corner.


Ok. I agree. But with that logic all of Senna's overtakes in his 88-91 Mclarens should be dismissed as being down to the car.

#32 gillesthegenius

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 00:48

Again, Brazil still pending, but the number of on-track overtakes only on Red Bulls, Ferraris, McLarens, Renaults and Mercedes'.

Up to Brazil 2012, the total number of 'top car' overtakes:
Lewis Hamilton: 22 (out of 48 total; 48%)
Sebastian Vettel: 21 (out of 45 total; 47%)
Fernando Alonso: 14 (out of 36 total; 39%)

Up to Brazil 2012, the total number of 'equal' 'top car' overtakes (tires no more than 5 laps fresher):
Sebastian Vettel: 11 (out of 23 total; 48%)
Lewis Hamilton: 11 (out of 21 total; 52%)
Fernando Alonso: 7 (out of 17 total; 41%)


Interesting numbers. But Vettel still had the car that made it so easy for him to sail past his opponents with DRS in places like Spa, Abu Dhabi and Interlagos while Alonso and Hamilton always had to wait for the most difficult overtaking spots like the Bus stop to even have chance of overtaking.;)

#33 gillesthegenius

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 00:51

Until he overtakes while being 5 seconds slower than the rest on three wheels on the ourtside in the rain, I won't rate him.


Me too.

#34 ViMaMo

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:40

Cong rats :clap: :clap: :clap:

Edited by ViMaMo, 28 November 2012 - 05:32.


#35 Creepy

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:15

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104626

#36 ANF

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:31

Silly stats. Who made the most gear changes during the season? Who made the most calls on the radio?

#37 itsademo

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:36

You do know that every team apart from HRT is faster than Red Bull in the speed trap, right? Like even Marussia

top speed is not the be all and end all of most racing
sometimes being able to use a slightly lower top speed but on more of the track (quicker acceleration via lower gearing) or sacrificing top end for grip so you can take corners quicker can pay big time.
But i would expect everyone on here to know that



#38 gm914

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:46

Cong rats :clap: :clap: :clap:

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#39 Lemnpiper

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:54

Posted Image



Classic!!! :up: :up:

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#40 H2H

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:02

Again, Brazil still pending, but the number of on-track overtakes only on Red Bulls, Ferraris, McLarens, Renaults and Mercedes'.

Up to Brazil 2012, the total number of 'top car' overtakes:
Lewis Hamilton: 22 (out of 48 total; 48%)
Sebastian Vettel: 21 (out of 45 total; 47%)
Fernando Alonso: 14 (out of 36 total; 39%)

Up to Brazil 2012, the total number of 'equal' 'top car' overtakes (tires no more than 5 laps fresher):
Sebastian Vettel: 11 (out of 23 total; 48%)
Lewis Hamilton: 11 (out of 21 total; 52%)
Fernando Alonso: 7 (out of 17 total; 41%)


Actually I calculated also a bit in 2010 and it turned out that on a percentage base, 'overtakable' cars he was excellent. His problem was/is threefold. His usually great Q3 in a car optimized for speed over a single lap puts him robs him the chance to overtake midfield or other top cars. However even in 2010 he was apart from some occasion in which the car's lack of topspeed and the track type had a big impact he was one of the finest and quickest overtaker in the business.

It is obvious that he has increasingly refined his art and there is noboday which does so many great outside passes, which is of course in part a reflection of the cars strenght. It is quite funny that other drivers, with worse Q3s and Q2s and cars with great race pace better suited at the standard type of overtakes get more credit for it. It just seems stupid but the post on this forum quite often are. Kimi is a fine overtaker but also he could only operate in the bounderies set up by his car which made for example an 'easy' DRS drive-by impossible in Korea. Dicey elements like a slippery surface in Sao Paolo suit Seb very much, and things like KERS are very helpful because they throw another thing into the mix and allow his intelligent racecraft to shine like in Spa.

#41 Baddoer

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:14

Routinely overtaking 6 slower cars and 2 Toro Rosso doesn't make you an overtake king.

#42 H2H

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:15

Routinely overtaking 6 slower cars and 2 Toro Rosso doesn't make you an overtake king.


Thus look at the facts posted a bit further down. Overtaking most top-cars does :wave:

Pre-Brazil Lewis and Seb were quite well matched, after Brazil Seb should be ahead also in this department. Not much left, o?

Edited by H2H, 28 November 2012 - 08:18.


#43 Jimisgod

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:50

This may be the most important overtake of 2012, though.

#44 H2H

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:54

This may be the most important overtake of 2012, though.


No, just an easy overtake of a TR. Or do you mean the last hair as straw would be a bit much. :lol:

#45 Coops3

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:15

This may be the most important overtake of 2012, though.


Hmmm, and the Schumacher 'overtake'. I don't want to sound bitter, but it really isn't good.

#46 choyothe

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:17

Hmmm, and the Schumacher 'overtake'. I don't want to sound bitter, but it really isn't good.


Unfortunately you failed then.

#47 Coops3

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:28

Unfortunately you failed then.


As I knew I would, hence the comment.

Look, I think Vettel is fantastic, arguably the best in the sport at the moment, and thoroughly deserving of his three titles. But I feel my point is valid - drivers shouldn't be letting others through, and the fact that Red Bull effectively have two teams is, in my opinion, utter nonsense.

#48 F.M.

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:25

Silly stats. Who made the most gear changes during the season? Who made the most calls on the radio?

Vettel's silly stats of this season:

Most points
Most wins
Most overtakes
Most fastest laps
Most laps in de lead
2nd Most pole positions (beaten by Hamilton by 1)
2nd Most podium finishes (beaten by Alonso by 2)

Edited by F.M., 28 November 2012 - 12:31.


#49 H2H

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:34

Vettel's silly stats of this season:

Most points
Most wins
Most overtakes
Most fastest laps
2nd Most pole positions
2nd Most podium finishes


Silly indeed, what a lucky chap ;)

@Coops: I actually agree with your point about TR. Of course this is nothing new in the sense that teams like Ferrari had often a big influence on others but it is not an ideal situation. One might argue that it is good that TR had a relative uncompetitive car which allowed them only to have a minimal impact on the WDC race but it is still there. On the other hand we would potentially lose two seats reserved for young drivers. In this context they are the most important team in F1.

#50 sniper80

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:14

Vettel is the greatest overtaker of all time, of teammates under yellows :lol: