Jump to content


Photo

Lotus F1 2013- Grosjean, Kovalainen or Kobayashi? Media reports


  • Please log in to reply
157 replies to this topic

Poll: Who should partner Raikkonen at Lotus for 2013?? (322 member(s) have cast votes)

Who should partner Raikkonen at Lotus for 2013??

  1. Romain Grosjean (69 votes [21.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.43%

  2. Heikki Kovalainen (84 votes [26.09%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.09%

  3. Kamui Kobayashi (150 votes [46.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 46.58%

  4. Other, e.g. Algesquari, Sutil, Petrov (19 votes [5.90%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.90%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 BackOnTop

BackOnTop
  • Member

  • 870 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:51

Lotus F1 team's second seat is the only one remaining amongst the Top 4 teams that is yet to be decided. We all saw what Lotus is capable of with Kimi Raikkonen, so it's but obvious that the other driver must deliver close to those results to even be considered.

Contenders that have emerged for the highly valuable race seat at Lotus due to Grosjean's inability to grap his 2nd opportunity with both hands according to highly respected journalist & media outlets:-
1-Romain Grosjean
2-Heikki Kovalainen
3-Kamui Kobayashi
4-Others (e.g): Jamie Algesquari, Adrian Sutil, Vitaly Petrov.

http://paddocktalk.c...ory-211378.html
The highly rated Finn Heikki Kovalainen is a candidate to replace the fast but inconsistent Romain Grosjean at Lotus, the Finnish broadcaster MTV3 reports.

Germany's Auto Motor und Sport said there is truth behind reports by Tobias Grunen and Michael Schmidt: "Many suspect that Gerard Lopez will persuade Grosjean's sponsor Total to spend more money,"
"But even Total has a problem with this protege. The French oil company has a safety campaign for public roads, and the face of a 'crash driver' doesn't fit."


http://www.inautonew...rt#.ULb9m9NyeiY
Kamui Kobayashi has entered the frame as a potential replacement for Romain Grosjean. Journalist Heikki Kulta said Lotus owner Gerard Lopez is wondering if having a more consistent driver alongside Raikkonen.
“Kimi comes at a cost to us,” Lopez is quoted as saying, “but on the other hand he helps us in the manufacturers’ standings, bringing even more money to the team.”

Alain Prost:- “It’s a shame for Romain, as not finishing his season in Brazil very well is a problem, “What’s more important, speed or reliability? That is what Lotus must decide,” he added.

Meanwhile, Brazil’s O Estado de S.Paulo newspaper, Livio Oricchio, claims Lotus is leaving open the second race seat for now amid its negotiations with potential team investors.
Oricchio said Lotus’ talks are with a group of investors involving none other than Bernie Ecclestone, who would promote a “very controversial” new team boss.
“Not Flavio Briatore,” Oricchio insisted.


BOLD Bit- :eek:

Edited by BackOnTop, 29 November 2012 - 13:52.


Advertisement

#2 Jackmancer

Jackmancer
  • Member

  • 2,813 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:53

Grosjean. He's a huge talent and a second season would do him well, earning more experience and confidence. Then he can lead the team when Raikkonen is bored and goes rallying again.

#3 sniper80

sniper80
  • Member

  • 525 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:23

Grosjean. He's a huge talent and a second season would do him well, earning more experience and confidence. Then he can lead the team when Raikkonen is bored and goes rallying again.


:rotfl: this is fun!


#4 Sammyosammy

Sammyosammy
  • Member

  • 1,496 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:36

Think it's gonna be GrosJ but voted for Kova. Just to make him lead the poll for a while :p

#5 Pothead4Philosopher

Pothead4Philosopher
  • Member

  • 541 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:39

Grosjean. He's a huge talent and a second season would do him well, earning more experience and confidence. Then he can lead the team when Raikkonen is bored and goes rallying again.



You kinda lose your credibility by that bit alone -- never mind to have RG for yet another round/season of crashing. The man has had 26 races to validate himself -- didn't quite work out.

#6 tabovilla

tabovilla
  • Member

  • 72 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:26

Grosjean. He's a huge talent and a second season would do him well, earning more experience and confidence. Then he can lead the team when Raikkonen is bored and goes rallying again.

He's already had a second season.

#7 pUs

pUs
  • Member

  • 2,543 posts
  • Joined: November 99

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:33

Grosjean. He's a huge talent and a second season would do him well, earning more experience and confidence. Then he can lead the team when Raikkonen is bored and goes rallying again.


I'd say his second season didn't do him that good since he's already had it. He's quick for sure, but if he'll keep crashing this much then he won't lead any team ever.

Edited by pUs, 29 November 2012 - 08:34.


#8 skinnylizard

skinnylizard
  • Member

  • 9,637 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:56

i thought Grosjean was solid at Lotus. Interesting. I think they should go for a stronger second driver if they change him at all. Kobayashi makes no sense in the second car, he is no less erratic and crash prone than Grosjean. Heikki is a race winner and has been in bigger teams so perhaps he would do well now that he has been around the block. His record is relatively spotty though when compared with team mates.

Senna not in the fray at all?

#9 george1981

george1981
  • Member

  • 767 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:09

Who's going to be the new controversial Lotus team boss? It's not Briatore, I can't think of many other controversial figures. Maybe Craig Pollock but he was a terrible team boss. Pat Symonds maybe but he's a consultant at Marussia now I believe. As a long shot Alain Prost, he would be controversial in that the last time he was a team boss it went wrong.

#10 DrF

DrF
  • Member

  • 1,450 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:16

Who's going to be the new controversial Lotus team boss? It's not Briatore, I can't think of many other controversial figures. Maybe Craig Pollock but he was a terrible team boss. Pat Symonds maybe but he's a consultant at Marussia now I believe. As a long shot Alain Prost, he would be controversial in that the last time he was a team boss it went wrong.

Pat Symonds' ban ends in 2013

#11 mich

mich
  • Member

  • 108 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:02

I think Kobayashi or Sutil is better.

Romain is solid if TOTAL decide to continue supporting for him; but if not (and maybe true), he is out.
Heikki was beaten by Petrov who got the sack from Lotus.

#12 TheUltimateWorrier

TheUltimateWorrier
  • Member

  • 839 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:29

i thought Grosjean was solid at Lotus. Interesting. I think they should go for a stronger second driver if they change him at all. Kobayashi makes no sense in the second car, he is no less erratic and crash prone than Grosjean. Heikki is a race winner and has been in bigger teams so perhaps he would do well now that he has been around the block. His record is relatively spotty though when compared with team mates.

That's just not true, this season he caused about 2 crashes and his only major problem was running over one of his pit crew. Kamui, like his teammate Perez, has done well in a decent car and deserves a chance to move up the grid, imo.

Heikki had his chance at McLaren and failed to impress, which is harsh and I don't think teams would confidently think he'd perform well in a top team.

Senna not in the fray at all?

Why would he be? Seems more likely he'll end up somewhere like Caterham.

#13 Anja

Anja
  • Member

  • 512 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:32

As a Lotus' supporter I'd choose Kobayashi. I tried to defend Grosjean for quite a long time, but enough is enough.

#14 Creepy

Creepy
  • Member

  • 582 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:38

Heikki has had a lot of chances already. Kobayashi is way better IMO, I think it's KOB who should partner Kimi...

But I'd want Alguersuari to do instead. :p

#15 MattPete

MattPete
  • Member

  • 1,450 posts
  • Joined: January 00

Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:01

I can't imagine why anyone would hire Kovalainen -- I'd go so far as to say that I'm surprised he's still in F1.

#16 nomi

nomi
  • Member

  • 288 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:06

My honest 2c,

If Heikki leaves F1 than it won't affect F1 at all, not a single bit.

It's not like Heikki is the commercial face of F1.

#17 XOR

XOR
  • Member

  • 83 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:21

I can't imagine why anyone would hire Kovalainen -- I'd go so far as to say that I'm surprised he's still in F1.

He has nice golf skills.

#18 silencer

silencer
  • Member

  • 85 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:24

Lotus f1 team tweet this about an hour ago

http://twitter.yfrog.com/kg94696493j

a clue of what to come?

:drunk:

#19 UPRC

UPRC
  • Member

  • 4,610 posts
  • Joined: February 99

Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:24

Kobayashi seems to be the best overall package of the unsigned drivers. Grosjean may be faster, but he's inconsistent and extremely unreliable. Kovalainen is a great guy and everyone likes him, but after how close to him Petrov was in terms of performance this year, I think there should be some question marks surrounding his name.

Kobayashi may not be the quickest of three (though I think he's probably faster than Heikki), but he's very consistent in races, is a great overtaker, and rarely gets into any incidents. The only fault he has is that his qualifying pace isn't always ideal, but then again neither was Perez's qualifying pace and that chump is off to McLaren!

I would like to add Alguersuari, but I'm inclined to believe that he's in at Force India.

Edited by UPRC, 29 November 2012 - 11:32.


Advertisement

#20 Jimisgod

Jimisgod
  • Member

  • 2,772 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:25

Kobayashi. The Sauber was erratic, not Kobayashi. With Perez likely going onto a great career at McLaren, it is smart to get the driver who ran him close.

Heikki had his chance in a top team. Would do solid in Force India, but a top 8 car is just a waste.

Grosjean? Only if you want some truly massive crashes in 2013.

That said, Hulkenberg would have been choice #1, but maybe he has his eye on Ferrari or RBR in 2014...

Edited by Jimisgod, 29 November 2012 - 11:28.


#21 TheUltimateWorrier

TheUltimateWorrier
  • Member

  • 839 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:44

That said, Hulkenberg would have been choice #1, but maybe he has his eye on Ferrari or RBR in 2014...

Something in the back of my mind tells me he could be this generation's Jean Alesi with bad luck (dropped for Maldonado and Brazil 2012) and potentially bad moves (leaving for Sauber, perhaps a bit too early).

#22 MustangSally

MustangSally
  • Member

  • 372 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:29

Something in the back of my mind tells me he could be this generation's Jean Alesi with bad luck (dropped for Maldonado and Brazil 2012) and potentially bad moves (leaving for Sauber, perhaps a bit too early).


Hulk may have been concerned about Force India's stability, who knows. I don't think it is necessarily a bad move, if sideways. Sauber has always been solid.

In the past, Bouillier was rather critical of Petrov, but I think I rate him more than Heikki or Kobayashi. Petrov did make all his mistakes in his rookie year . . . Kobayashi is still a little unpredictable.

I'm not surprised there are question marks over Grosjean. Heikki would be the safe choice.




#23 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,311 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:35

Lotus f1 team tweet this about an hour ago

http://twitter.yfrog.com/kg94696493j

a clue of what to come?

:drunk:


Err, did you look at it? It's about announcing Raikkonen last year.

#24 motorhead

motorhead
  • Member

  • 921 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:36

My honest 2c,

If Heikki leaves F1 than it won't affect F1 at all, not a single bit.

It's not like Heikki is the commercial face of F1.


that can be said of everyone of those 3

#25 Baddoer

Baddoer
  • Member

  • 1,495 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:41

Lopez just wants more money from Total for Grosjean, thats why no announce yet. Relax.

#26 KavB

KavB
  • Member

  • 1,095 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:41

I'd take Kobayashi. He's bringing a little bit of money, he's a good qualifier and he may make mistakes but he hardly crashes out of races.

#27 dreamer

dreamer
  • Member

  • 601 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:48

Heikki or Kamui
I like both of them

#28 nomi

nomi
  • Member

  • 288 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:54

I'd take Kobayashi. He's bringing a little bit of money, he's a good qualifier and he may make mistakes but he hardly crashes out of races.


Kamui has apparently $1 million raised from his personal funding,

That won't even get you a full time seat in WSR or GP2.

Any idea how much TOTAL sponsorship worth?

#29 Creepy

Creepy
  • Member

  • 582 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:59

Kobayashi. The Sauber was erratic, not Kobayashi. With Perez likely going onto a great career at McLaren, it is smart to get the driver who ran him close.

Heikki had his chance in a top team. Would do solid in Force India, but a top 8 car is just a waste.

Grosjean? Only if you want some truly massive crashes in 2013.

That said, Hulkenberg would have been choice #1, but maybe he has his eye on Ferrari or RBR in 2014...


I agree. The Sauber was erratic, and not just that, Kobayashi has been incredibly unlucky in tracks where he could have shined. See for instance SPA...

He almost finishes with the same points than Perez, the guy that is going to McLaren...

I think Kobayashi in a Lotus would be epic.

#30 XOR

XOR
  • Member

  • 83 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 29 November 2012 - 13:09

Kamui has apparently $1 million raised from his personal funding,
That won't even get you a full time seat in WSR or GP2.


His _personal funding_ does not preclude partnership with bigger companies.
To me it's just an indicator of how popular he is.

#31 nomi

nomi
  • Member

  • 288 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 29 November 2012 - 13:15

His _personal funding_ does not preclude partnership with bigger companies.
To me it's just an indicator of how popular he is.


So which partnership with which bigger companies???



#32 XOR

XOR
  • Member

  • 83 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 29 November 2012 - 13:19

let's see if he will stay in f1

#33 Longtimefan

Longtimefan
  • Member

  • 2,981 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 29 November 2012 - 13:20

Kamui!



#34 Anja

Anja
  • Member

  • 512 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 29 November 2012 - 13:23

Kobayashi is the most popular of these three I think, and that may be another reason for Lotus to hire him. They see how much Kimi brought to the team by having millions of fans and so far they're making a good use of this. One could say that having Kimi is enough and second driver doesn't necessarily have to be the fans favourite, but that's for the team to figure out. Lotus' approach to such matters looks a bit different than in other teams, at least from the outside.

Edited by Anja, 29 November 2012 - 13:24.


#35 nomi

nomi
  • Member

  • 288 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 29 November 2012 - 13:26

So are there any Japanese corporate sponsors after Kamui?
Last i heard there was none.

#36 Realyn

Realyn
  • Member

  • 555 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 29 November 2012 - 13:31

Japanese companies have different worries right now.

#37 BackOnTop

BackOnTop
  • Member

  • 870 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 29 November 2012 - 13:35

Grosjean has become a big problem for Lotus for a number of Reasons:-

1- Lotus + Burn (Coca Cola)
2- Lotus + Rexona, Sure,
3- Lotus + Microsoft
4- Lotus + Total
5- Lotus + Trina Solar.


Now which sponsor wants to be associated with Grosjean, who's potentially no better than that of Kobayashi & Kovalainen at the moment. In fact, in current form, Grosjean is the worst choice for any team over the former two.

Grosjean is a risk, and Lotus have already possibly lost around 10 Million in constructors standing. Also, easily add another 3-5 Million dollars in spare parts & negative attention. Coca Cola only came onboard because the performances of Kimi-Lotus combination showed great potential.

The sponsors, team and everyone on the grid will any day prefer a quick & reliable driver in the second seat that finishes the race. I don't think Total has any significant say over driver matter, especially since there are 2 MAJOR AMERICAN brands already on the car. Microsoft & Burn promote performance, and having their logo on Grosjean's car is not good publicity.

I think no team boss can take the risk and give 'another' chance in the hope that Grosjean doesn't crash. He may become world champion, but he may also turn out to be the biggest dud against Kimi Raikkonen... who is now upto speed and has the team & sponsors wholly behind the race winner.

Kimi-207 : Grosjean-96. I think the % score will remain the same as Kimi will be on top of his game come next season. So Kamui seems to me like a good choice any day. Kobayashi has more experience as well.

Not to forget, Peter Sauber & Monisha K are quite fond of Kobayashi... and would have provided a good recommendation on his CV. Of this there is no doubt, as Perez literally irritated the living daylights out of Sauber with crazy performances having signed for Mclaren.

Edited by BackOnTop, 29 November 2012 - 13:42.


#38 nomi

nomi
  • Member

  • 288 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 29 November 2012 - 13:37

Japanese companies have different worries right now.


Yes that's right, all of Japanese tech companies have had big losses for past few years and big debt.

That's why i'm so curious as to which bigger partnership XOR was talking about?




#39 KavB

KavB
  • Member

  • 1,095 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 29 November 2012 - 13:44

Kamui has apparently $1 million raised from his personal funding,

That won't even get you a full time seat in WSR or GP2.

Any idea how much TOTAL sponsorship worth?

That's 1 million more than Heikki would bring. May not be a lot, but it's still something.

Advertisement

#40 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,311 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 29 November 2012 - 13:46

I don't think Total has any significant say over driver matter, especially since there are 2 MAJOR AMERICAN brands already on the car. Microsoft & Burn promote performance, and having their logo on Grosjean's car is not good publicity.



Look at the size of the Total logo, then look at the Microsoft logo. And then consider who cares about driver nationality more.

#41 mich

mich
  • Member

  • 108 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 29 November 2012 - 13:47

Yes that's right, all of Japanese tech companies have had big losses for past few years and big debt.

That's why i'm so curious as to which bigger partnership XOR was talking about?


In Japan there are few big companies and few wealthy men like Carlos Slim who pay millions for racing, but are many middle classes who pay hundreds for Kobayashi, aren't?

#42 BackOnTop

BackOnTop
  • Member

  • 870 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 29 November 2012 - 13:47

So which partnership with which bigger companies???

Kamui Kobayashi's Performance, Fanbase & Popularity should be good enough for Sponsors that are already there at Lotus.

It's not looking likely that Total will stop sponsoring Lotus just because Grosjean's not there. Infact, according to reports above, Total are in favor of changing Grosjean with another driver who might perform at a better rate. So it's not like Lotus will suddenly get poorer if Grosjean leaves.

Also, Kobayashi is not going to be expensive at all. I think Kimi & Kamui would be the most popular team in the entire grid, possibly elevating Lotus to cult status. Nice, I like this.

Edited by BackOnTop, 29 November 2012 - 13:50.


#43 primus

primus
  • New Member

  • 26 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 29 November 2012 - 13:48

Grosjean!

#44 BackOnTop

BackOnTop
  • Member

  • 870 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 29 November 2012 - 14:05

Apparently, when Petrov & Senna were crashing & burnin.... Gerard Lopez was so p!ssed off that at one race he promptly called Boullier and told him to get rid of these idiots. Nick Heidfeld got fired because Boullier didn't get along.

So what does Lopez do... calls Kimi & hires him. Mr. Eric was not informed about this development :lol:

I can see the same thing happening... Big Boss not happy with Eric again who is hell bent on promoting Grosjean over Team responsibility. I will not be surprised if Kamui Kobayashi has been called for a meeting. Hope Lotus gets Kamui, I will be p!ssed if Grosjean is on the grid at the expense of Kobayashi next year. Not happening.

Lopez, Lotus main investor, seems very smart in understanding that performance brings money..... & not the other way around. :up:

#45 Jackmancer

Jackmancer
  • Member

  • 2,813 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 29 November 2012 - 14:07

He's already had a second season.


Not exactly true, only one full season.

[/b]

You kinda lose your credibility by that bit alone -- never mind to have RG for yet another round/season of crashing. The man has had 26 races to validate himself -- didn't quite work out.


I understand your point but I don't think one season is enough to fully validate yourself. I mean that in a way to like, get rid of the mistakes. Perez got two seasons and still makes heaps of mistakes, and the STR duo got another season to get more experience as well. That's why I think Grosjean should get another one too.

#46 BackOnTop

BackOnTop
  • Member

  • 870 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 29 November 2012 - 14:12

Grosjean!

If you go to Lotus' Facebook page, there hasn't been any positive update on Grosjean for almost 6 months now. Any update on him has a lot of negative & irritated reponse & comments from members regarding yet another crash. So all you see is Kimi updates.

Lotus PR is currently running on Kimi Raikkonen's image & performance. And Lotus Marketing department is currently stuck with promoting one driver only.

#47 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 29 November 2012 - 14:15

Quite iftenb persaonal opinion like of myself do not count, but.... I shout Kamui!
Farm Grosjean out to Force India, which is a proven team as well.

#48 Mila

Mila
  • Member

  • 5,712 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 29 November 2012 - 14:18

HK does have a lot of experience with Renault power; and maybe the Renault people know something we don't. regardless, the challenge of marketing two Finnish drivers may be a stumbling block if, indeed, they are considering HK.

and I don't believe that Renault could possibly rationalize dropping a home-grown, French driver for a rank outsider such as a KK.


#49 MadYarpen

MadYarpen
  • Member

  • 3,880 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 29 November 2012 - 14:20

they gave Petrov a second chance - in this perspective I think grosjean deserves the same. But I really hope they won't regret it. Cause there was no sign of progress and improvement as the season was passing.

#50 Wander

Wander
  • Member

  • 2,280 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 29 November 2012 - 14:23

Grosjean did not impress me and I would not be sad if he was gone, but I'm not too bothered about who drives for them next year. I believe in second (and third) chances.