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Lotus F1 2013- Grosjean, Kovalainen or Kobayashi? Media reports


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Poll: Who should partner Raikkonen at Lotus for 2013?? (322 member(s) have cast votes)

Who should partner Raikkonen at Lotus for 2013??

  1. Romain Grosjean (69 votes [21.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.43%

  2. Heikki Kovalainen (84 votes [26.09%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.09%

  3. Kamui Kobayashi (150 votes [46.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 46.58%

  4. Other, e.g. Algesquari, Sutil, Petrov (19 votes [5.90%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.90%

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#101 Music Lover

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 19:27

Koba I would welcome to Lotus. The problem with that is, Kimi would send him into early retirement.

On the other hand, GRO is good on his way sending himself into early retirement.

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#102 Music Lover

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 19:39

Your language is vague and misleading. What does "when things didn't go his way" mean? You mean discounting all of the self-inflicted things, particularly in '09?

Likewise, there's incidents Grosjean's been involved in, incidents he's caused, then there's finishing races. You've just gone straight to the third in your argument. He took himself out of four races out of 19, that's not "hardly even" finishing races.

Well, compare with Kimi that AVOID numerous incidents that would send him into retirement!

GRO seems always ending up in troubles, THAT is the difference in race craft.

#103 fisssssi

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 20:15

KO BA YA SHI

#104 metz

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 20:24

Lotus is waiting for Kubica.

I thought that was obvious.... :smoking:

#105 xman

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 20:26

Kovalainen for consistent points scoring and occasional flashes. From those three, my guess is that Kovalainen would end up with most points gathered.

However, I don't think Lotus will have two Finnish drivers. But hey, if you want to win, employ a Finn!

#106 Gareth

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 20:29

If I were Lotus, I'd go Kova.

Selfishly, though, I'd rather see KK. More entertainment for the neutral, IMO!

#107 Lord_Shaitan

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 20:53

Romain :smoking: .

#108 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 20:55

I don't get this We want Kobayashi in a Lotus hype. He's ben so inconsistent for the three seasons he's been at F1. He'll hardly be an improvement on Grosjean. Kovalainen would be a far better and more reliable choice for Lotus. How does Kobayashi get more than 100 votes in this poll?

#109 fisssssi

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:21

Where did this inconsistent myth come from? He was very consistent last year, especially for the first half while the car was decent. He's great at collecting points when he has a chance.

Excluding Alonso and Raikkonen, can you find me a driver this year who wasn't inconsistent? 90% of that was due to the tyres they had to put up with.

#110 Talisman

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:22

I don't get this We want Kobayashi in a Lotus hype. He's ben so inconsistent for the three seasons he's been at F1. He'll hardly be an improvement on Grosjean. Kovalainen would be a far better and more reliable choice for Lotus. How does Kobayashi get more than 100 votes in this poll?


Inconsistent how?

The Sauber has always been poor on traction and braking and has excelled on quick aero tracks. Curiously enough all the Sauber drivers over the past three seasons have been quick on fast aero tracks and been poor on street and stop start circuits. Its time to stop confusing the limitations of the car with that of the drivers.

Within those limitations Kobayashi has been pretty consistent, but since you mocked him for not being able to get his soft tyres to last as well as Perez's hards at Monza I don't think logic is going to get very far.

Lotus faces a difficult choice IMO. Grosjean is quick, there's no doubt about it. He's also had more than his fair share of collisions this season but importantly quite a few of them were not his fault. The problem is that he has been targetted with this reputation as a crasher and its clearly weighing him down. If he can sort out his mental issues on the first lap he could be great but is Lotus prepared to risk him not being able to do so? Also how much money are Total willing to throw Lotus' way if they keep him? Are they tired of him too? I think thats the biggest factor behind whether he stays.

Kovalainen is a known factor for Enstone since he used to drive for them but his biggest limitation is his lack of funding. The one thing that Lotus have used for the past few seasons with the second seat is to use it to get extra sponsorship through Petrov and Grosjean, I don't think this is going to change for 2013. If he doesn't source money he isn't going to drive, and thats before the sponsorship opportunity limitations that come with having both drivers of the same nationality.

Kobayashi is consistent and safe but I'm not sure he's quite as quick as Grosjean. While he can be trusted to bring in a solid haul of points over the season the key question again is cash, how much can he bring to the table? If he can get 5-10 million I'd have thought the seat would be his.

#111 FenderJaguar

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:31

Kobayashi is not what Lotus Renault needs. He is making strange mistakes that a lot of fans don't want to see because they love him. And he has been 3 years in F1. Grosjean at least has some chance of improving. And they can't have 2 Finnish drivers. If Hulkenberg was free now that would be an interesting choice.

Edited by FenderJaguar, 29 November 2012 - 21:32.


#112 One

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:55

In the contrary, if there was no Gro involved in for the choice and if it was between Kova an Koba, I say Koba is a better oartner with Kimi, which is what you want as a formula one team. On points front they will sore similar or Koba will get more. Foe exposure in US needs more multi appearance rather than having two Fins. Kimi is absolutelh faster than Kova so
Koba and Kova in one team will not happen.

Romain made too many mistakes to get a free pass, that is the current situation I am assuming. Romain and Koba will score as much or Koba more.

#113 rijole1

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 22:07

I think they should go for Kobayashi

#114 Phoenixx

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 22:35

They should take Adrian (Sutil) but they will take Romain (Grosjean). I don't think there is any chance for Koba or Kova as they have not enough sponsor backing. And the team manager of Lotus Eric Boullier is also the manager of Romain :rolleyes:

#115 Shiroo

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 22:51

It doesn't matter what Boullier thinks. It is all to Lopez. if he will want Grosjean, he will take him, if he won't, even Boullier whine won't make him change that (in the end he can ditch Boullier as well)

#116 gm914

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 22:54

They should take Adrian (Sutil) but they will take Romain (Grosjean). I don't think there is any chance for Koba or Kova as they have not enough sponsor backing. And the team manager of Lotus Eric Boullier is also the manager of Romain :rolleyes:

I don't think there is any chance for Sutil if Eric Lux is still a part of that team.

#117 BigCHrome

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 22:55

Growjohn is the best driver available.

#118 discover23

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 23:04

:rotfl: this is fun!

+1..

:rotfl:

It will not be RG 2nd year but his 3rd.

#119 Rikhart

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 00:03

I think most people rate grosjean´s qualy a bit too highly, he only compared so positively to Kimi because he had a full season of gp2 (extremely similar to f1), while Kimi came fresh from 2 years of rallying, he needed time to get re-accostumed to single seater racing. Next year Kimi will be much more dominant from the get go. Racing wise, he just has no spatial awareness at all for F1, he was terrible in his first f1 stint, and still terrible now, what makes you think he will change anything? And still I see people here rating him highly...

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#120 mprtc

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 00:11

Kovalainen and Kobayashi are very ordinary drivers ..... don't know on what special kobayashi has done that makes him great f1 driver and is getting so many votes

Romain Grosjohn has proved that he has talent on many ocassions , he just needs to get some baiscs right which i am sure he willl if given chance to drive next year .
He is still new to F1 compared to many who are less talented than him .


Other than Romain , Timo Glock is good option but i think he is under contract with marussia virgin racing .
Sutil , Alguesuari are also good options .

#121 mprtc

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 00:12

Kovalainen and Kobayashi are very ordinary drivers ..... don't know on what special kobayashi has done that makes him great f1 driver and is getting so many votes

Romain Grosjohn has proved that he has talent on many ocassions , he just needs to get some baiscs right which i am sure he willl if given chance to drive next year .
He is still new to F1 compared to many who are less talented than him .


Other than Romain , Timo Glock is good option but i think he is under contract with marussia virgin racing .
Sutil , Alguesuari are also good options .

#122 gerry nassar

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 00:44

Kobayashi is the best choice. But they'll keep Grosjean.



#123 Shiroo

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:04

Sutil is NO. Lux is like co-owner of the team (he is shareholder of Genii isnt it?) and you could see him few tmes in Lotus garage this year, no way that he would say YES to Sutil (though Lopez is deciding the thing, still he would talk with his business partner about it isnt it?).

I'd say that biggest chance has Grosjean, then Koba, then Algersuari. I believe that Kovalainen isnt even evaluated.

#124 mich

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 03:04

I don't get this We want Kobayashi in a Lotus hype. He's ben so inconsistent for the three seasons he's been at F1. He'll hardly be an improvement on Grosjean. Kovalainen would be a far better and more reliable choice for Lotus. How does Kobayashi get more than 100 votes in this poll?


How many drivers did you see in post-race, post-qualify press conferences of these 3 seasons, except drivers of Redbull, Ferrari, Mclaren and Lotus(Renault) ?
Just Hulkenberg, Rosberg, Schumacher, Maldonado, Perez and Kobayashi.
Especially in '10-'11 seasons almost all podium and front raw were occupied by top 3 teams.
Kobayashi got 2nd grid at Spa which is the most difficult drivers' circuit, and got a podium in his home circuit with a same strategy as top teams'. No doubt he got just a podium in contrast with 3 times his teammate but all podium of Perez were by risky strategies and we didn't see Perez in post-qualify conferences.

#125 hijinx

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 03:43

Kovalainen and Kobayashi are very ordinary drivers ..... don't know on what special kobayashi has done that makes him great f1 driver and is getting so many votes

Romain Grosjohn has proved that he has talent on many ocassions , he just needs to get some baiscs right which i am sure he willl if given chance to drive next year .
He is still new to F1 compared to many who are less talented than him .


Other than Romain , Timo Glock is good option but i think he is under contract with marussia virgin racing .
Sutil , Alguesuari are also good options .

he just needs to get some basics right??? This is F1, pinnacle of motorsport...it shouldn't be the place to get basics right, no??? Kimi got this right in his first year in F1, with only 23 proper races in other lower series before jumping into F1. Kimi was considered a high risk driver and there was so much controversy when securing his drive in 2001. Contrast this to Grosjean, he's champion in a no. of racing series and still he hasn't got racing basics right???

And the other thing that some people insist that race craft can be learned as opposed to picking up speed... I dunno if this is really true. There are a gazillion n-track situations and you can't possibly know which ones you gonna face + all that adrenalin at the start... makes it even harder to react in the milliseconds. Just look at Kimi's first couple of turns in Brazil. He was so quick to react to avoid hitting Seb. Anyone else (well maybe including the top couple of blokes) would have ended Seb's championship there and then. Spatial awareness has to be so acute and reaction has to be lightning quick to get out of such hairy situations... I dunno how he can learn it except to drive a gazillion times and be in a gazillion scenarios to learn from them. Simulator may be able to help??? Then he needs to get one heck of a simulator to help him learn this off-track and without causing so much money and tears.

Someone here mentioned that Grosjean only looked impressive in the beginning becos Kimi was just getting re-acquainted with F1 from rally. I do feel this is a big factor becos a couple of races into the season, Kimi has matched or bettered his teammate except for some mistakes he said he made. other times, he was denied testing in favor of Grosjean, his steering not to his liking, differential problem, kers problems, grosjean got new parts, blown engine, kimi did all the high-risk on-track testing (like coanda, DDRS) so he lost a lot of setup time, etc. when compared to Grosjean. IMHO, this strategy was right even though it harmed Kimi's setups during free practice bcos Kimi is cool under the helmet. he doesn't get flustered easily. That's why he could still out-qualify grosjean in Brazil and even more impressively, got into Q3 with only 1 effective practice session. Grosjean could not even recover from the Q1 incident to put in a stonking lap to get out of Q1 even though he had all 3 practice sessions to setup the car and even showed his car was a challenger. So, it's very telling Grosjean is not cool under the collar and gets rattled easily. This is not a good trait to have in the first place... and certainly makes it harder to stay cool at race starts or in crowded/tricky situations.

This is not a Kimi vs Grosjean thread but a few comparisons, I feel, are necessary to show some trends or explain some "results" between them that, IMHO, tell me that Grosjean is not cut out for F1. I must say I haven't really observed the mid-field drivers as much as the top tier ones, but I would say Schummy is the best choice even though he is not in the picture and I'm not remotely a fan of his. Age, for him, is really just a number. Look at his racecraft. Yes a few mistakes here and there but who doesn't make them? Many of Schummy's non finishers this year were through the fault of the car/team. I can think of maybe 2 incidents that were his own mistakes (but I could be wrong cos I haven't really followed his stats all that closely).

Kamui is an unknown but I would give him a shot if money is not a problem. Kovalainen, I think, had his chances but I dun think he is cut in the same cloth as Kimi. He almost always went backwards in macs and even though people say he was still green then, they forget that kimi was just as green or even greener when he went to macs.

Let us not forget that before the season started, Grosjean was boasting of his pirelli experience, and that Kimi could learn from him (or something to that effect). So withoout the benefit of hindsight, and with all the heavy self/team promotion of grosjean at the beginning, I was also thinking this guy will wipe the socks off his teammate, the unmotivated drunk driver who got booted by a marque team.

#126 TF110

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:00

Koby jumped in the TF109 Toyota and dazzled in his first race replacing Glock. Raced Button in the BRAWN hard and held his own at Brazil. He needs a competent car underneath him to show his worth. Sauber isnt. They even admitted they let him down with bad strategies. Spa was a good chance for another podium, but who'd he get taken out by? Grosjean.

#127 BackOnTop

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:34

F1 is a world without pity says under fire Grosjean
http://www.yallaf1.c...-fire-grosjean/

As the candidates clamour for his Lotus seat, Romain Grosjean has acknowledged that Formula One is a “world without pity”. The interview with the 26-year-old took place amid reports that he might lose his Lotus seat

“Yes,” he confirmed to the Swiss daily Le Matin. “But that’s normal for the top level. It’s also the case with banking and watchmaking. There is no room for mercy. Seats in F1 are scarce; there are no presents.”

In the meantime, the Swiss-born Frenchman Grosjean also has his fingers crossed. Asked what he has learned in 2012, he answered: “A lot. More than what I thought. “The world of F1 is more difficult than I imagined. When I returned, I saw that there was a mountain to climb. “And once I started to climb, I saw how high it really is.”

Dropped by Sauber, Japanese Kobayashi’s chances appear to have been boosted by his race seat donation website, which so far has raised €775,000 to contribute to the budget of his 2013 employer. The money will be returned to his fans if he fails to secure a seat.

Edited by BackOnTop, 30 November 2012 - 10:44.


#128 BackOnTop

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:37

Kobayashi linked to Grosjean's seat
http://www.planet-f1...Grosjean-s-seat

Kamui Kobayashi could be off to Lotus next season replacing Romain Grosjean as the team seeks a more 'stable' driver.

A stellar season for Lotus saw lead driver Kimi Raikkonen claim the Abu Dhabi race win and also finish third in the Drivers' Championship. But it is the team's finishing position in the Constructors' Championship that really counts as that determines how much money they are awarded at the end of the season. Lotus finished fourth, which is reportedly ten million US dollars less than third.

Grosjean, though, comes at a cost to the team as the Frenchman netted less than half Raikkonen's 207 points, largely due to his own errors and his Italian GP ban. As such, Lotus are believed to be looking around with Kobayashi linked to the team in what Lotus reportedly believe would be a "stable partnership".

Edited by BackOnTop, 30 November 2012 - 10:41.


#129 BackOnTop

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:39

Donations roll in for Kobayashi
http://www.crash.net..._kobayashi.html

Fans show support for Kamui Kobayashi's bid to be on the 2013 F1 grid

Ahead of the season finale in Brazil, news broke of a new website, Kamui-Support.com that had been set up by the Japanese driver to help in his bid to raise funds to secure a drive. In a message on his Twitter account, Kobayashi has now revealed that nearly INR 43889924 (£500,000) has already been donated by fans, which could be added to any potential sponsorship he can raise to then take to a team.

“Thank you for your support from everyone to 'Kamui Support',” the message read. “Thank you very much. On 27 November, the current fundraising total was ¥ 65,813,672. Thank you kindly.”



#130 KinoNoNo

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:25

In the grand scheme of things the money raised from the fund raising website maybe chicken feed, but it's keeping Kamui's name in the spot light.

#131 Coops3

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:30

Kovalainen all the way. I'll be gutted if he doesn't at least find a race seat.

#132 encircled

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:36

Total funds for Kamui now 127,863,961 Yen or around $1.55m US Dollars or 966,000 Pounds.

#133 Icicle

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 14:04

Come on Lotus, hire Kobayashi. You will have another fan rooting for you.

#134 mastermind

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 14:07

The Kimi-Kamui lineup would certainly be the most popular among f1 fans. Especially in Japan, maybe a good chance to attract a major japanese sponsor?

#135 Talisman

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 16:27

Kobayashi linked to Grosjean's seat
http://www.planet-f1...Grosjean-s-seat

Kamui Kobayashi could be off to Lotus next season replacing Romain Grosjean as the team seeks a more 'stable' driver.

A stellar season for Lotus saw lead driver Kimi Raikkonen claim the Abu Dhabi race win and also finish third in the Drivers' Championship. But it is the team's finishing position in the Constructors' Championship that really counts as that determines how much money they are awarded at the end of the season. Lotus finished fourth, which is reportedly ten million US dollars less than third.

Grosjean, though, comes at a cost to the team as the Frenchman netted less than half Raikkonen's 207 points, largely due to his own errors and his Italian GP ban. As such, Lotus are believed to be looking around with Kobayashi linked to the team in what Lotus reportedly believe would be a "stable partnership".


PF1 just recycling news from elsewhere on the internet as usual.

What's the concrete evidence that Lotus are talking to Kobayashi btw? All the articles simply connect Kamui raising money from fans with Lotus considering dropping Grosjean for someone more stable and making 2+2 =5. Any quotes from Lotus bods actually mentioning Kobayashi's name?

#136 nectar

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 16:48

Word on the Twitter is Lotus is getting a title sponsor and announcement is due mid Dec. Guessing it would be Honeywell. So this seat could well be decided by that sponsor if that is true. No good speculating though, need to wait and see. If THEY decide it's Grosjean, I'll accept it and support him.

#137 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 16:53

Why would it be Honeywell? And why would they title sponsor a team?

#138 XOR

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 16:54

Any quotes from Lotus bods actually mentioning Kobayashi's name?

Just if someone interested, he had a chance to become part of Renault in 2010. Well, there was some Panasonic and KDDI backing.

#139 KinoNoNo

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 16:55

PF1 just recycling news from elsewhere on the internet as usual.

What's the concrete evidence that Lotus are talking to Kobayashi btw? All the articles simply connect Kamui raising money from fans with Lotus considering dropping Grosjean for someone more stable and making 2+2 =5. Any quotes from Lotus bods actually mentioning Kobayashi's name?

No, it's as you say, it's purely conjecture.

As far as I know all Lotus has said was it's up to Grosjean to stop having incidents.
Also there's some pundits on Finland big upping Kova's chances of moving to Lotus, therefore opening the possibility that Grosjean seat is up for grabs.

But all will be made clear in the fullness of time.

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#140 UPRC

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 18:30

Word on the Twitter is Lotus is getting a title sponsor and announcement is due mid Dec. Guessing it would be Honeywell. So this seat could well be decided by that sponsor if that is true. No good speculating though, need to wait and see. If THEY decide it's Grosjean, I'll accept it and support him.

Where the heck are you getting Honeywell from? A personal guess? Seems like a completely random corporation to sponsor the team.

#141 eronrules

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 19:04

Where the heck are you getting Honeywell from? A personal guess? Seems like a completely random corporation to sponsor the team.


Posted Image


also these two tweets earlier .... LINK

Grand Prix Diary ‏@GrandPrixDiary
Lotus sponsor and driver announcements due mid December, apparently. (Grosjean, Kovalainen and Kobayashi all have fingers crossed).
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite

Grand Prix Diary ‏@GrandPrixDiary
Following on from the Coca-Cola deal, word is that Lotus are about to announce a new title sponsor, an American conglomerate, from 2013 on.


Edited by eronrules, 30 November 2012 - 19:10.


#142 Diderlo

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 19:04

Where the heck are you getting Honeywell from? A personal guess? Seems like a completely random corporation to sponsor the team.


Honeywell has been discussed in the Lotus E20 thread. The source for the rumor is this:

Posted Image



#143 Anja

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 19:42

Anyone knows how reliable this guy is?

#144 Jejking

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 20:27

Word on the Twitter is Lotus is getting a title sponsor and announcement is due mid Dec. Guessing it would be Honeywell. So this seat could well be decided by that sponsor if that is true. No good speculating though, need to wait and see. If THEY decide it's Grosjean, I'll accept it and support him.

Looking at your username. Laughing my ass off :rotfl:

Edited by Jejking, 30 November 2012 - 20:27.


#145 midgrid

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 20:32

In the grand scheme of things the money raised from the fund raising website maybe chicken feed, but it's keeping Kamui's name in the spot light.


Such an obvious and quantifiable demonstration of his popularity should also send a message to potential corporate sponsors...


#146 Jimisgod

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 21:17

I have no idea what Honeywell sells except for cluster bombs.

See here: https://en.wikipedia...neywell_Project

Maybe Grosjean is a good brand ambassador in that case?

#147 DankBank

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 21:34

What's all this about giving Grosjean a "second" chance? This season was his second chance and it appears clear today as it did when it happened that the chance was ruined in Japan. It seems to me from his recent comments that he feels vulnerable from within the team and that his relationship with the Team Principle may be the only thing that has him in that seat right now or next year if he manages to hold on to it.

Edited by DankBank, 30 November 2012 - 21:34.


#148 Wormstrum

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 22:13

I have no idea what Honeywell sells except for cluster bombs.

See here: https://en.wikipedia...neywell_Project

Maybe Grosjean is a good brand ambassador in that case?


"Almost half of its revenue is from Europe where turbocharged cars are more common, but the company sees the US as an emerging market. Honeywell has also been involved in turbocharged racing competitions. Honeywell manufactures turbochargers for applications ranging from small passenger cars to large trucks, as well as industrial equipment, construction machinery and aircraft."

https://en.wikipedia...bo_Technologies

Relevance to F1? i believe so


#149 artista

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 22:28

Where the heck are you getting Honeywell from? A personal guess? Seems like a completely random corporation to sponsor the team.

Motorsport-Total has been talking about Honeywell going into F1 for a few weeks. The articles there said Lotus was fighting with McLaren and Williams for the sponsorship.
I've not read there if they had already chosen a team, though

#150 MattPete

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:32

Honeywell is probably most famous for making thermostats.