241 replies to this topic

[tifosiMac]

yes I know that too but I dont consider him the best driver... maybe it is because I haven't seen the times where he really was shining... I saw alonso and vettel showing their talent this season and I saw Hülkenberg show his.... many people always say Vettel isnt great and just has a good car, this is kinda how I see Hamilton so far.... but he is by no means a bad driver.... I didnt mean to insult...

If you saw Alonso and Vettel shine last season then I don't see how you missed how Hamilton performed last season too. He was robbed many times by mechanical failures and team blunders yet drove the season of his life. Just because he was unable to fight for the championship at the last round, does not mean he didn't shine. I think Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton performed on a par and took full advantage when the conditions were right. Lewis was extremely unlucky and people need to look beyond this if they are to appreciate the calibre of drivers competing in F1. I appreciate you didn't mean to insult, but it drives me up the wall when fans can't give credit where its due.

[undersquare]

Hamilton was consistently excellent in 2012, very fast, with no bad series of races like the others had. He's top. Then
Alonso
Vettel
Raikonnen
Hulk

[ayali]

Hamilton was consistently excellent in 2012, very fast, with no bad series of races like the others had. He's top. Then
Alonso
Vettel
Raikonnen
Hulk

Thank God F1 isn't a (biased) jury sport ;)

[Sakae]

I doubt it reflects the real ability of the drivers well since in this board there are not an equal number of fans for all drivers... and not everybody here is neutral too....

after all the whole thing would look totally different if you asked on a german board...

what this reflects is the opinion of the board which drivers make the top 5 and in what order, not less not more personally I would go

1. Sebastian Vettel
2. Nico Hülkenberg
3. Kimi Räikkönnen
4. Fernando Alonso
5. Lewis Hamilton


all POV .... all POV

Interesting, and refreshing. May I inquire what impressed you so much about Hulkenberg?

[undersquare]

Interesting, and refreshing. May I inquire what impressed you so much about Hulkenberg?

His nationality is amazing

[joshb]

Interesting, and refreshing. May I inquire what impressed you so much about Hulkenberg?

Hulks 2012 was for me, like a rerun of Vettels 2008.
So-so first half, not really getting too far ahead of his teammate and then really consistently strong 2nd half of the year- seemed to be putting an increasingly competitive Force India higher up than most expected.

[Alx09]

Button and Massa in top5s? What are people smoking?

Anyway, my list:

1. Hamilton
2. Alonso
3. Vettel
4. Raikkonen
5. Hulkenburg

Edited by Alx09, 01 January 2013 - 23:40.

[Rikhart]

Im currently rewatching the whole season, and both vettel and alonso made unforced errors (vettel in malaysia getting a puncture, brazil as well, alonso in suzuka squeezing Kimi), and raikonnen was rusty on the start of the season, so my top 5 would be

Hamilton (shame about team meltdown, had a stellar season)
vettel, alonso and raikkonen all equal
and cant really decide so far on the fifth, hulkenberg was frankly nowhere on the early races.

[Sakae]

Hulks 2012 was for me, like a rerun of Vettels 2008.
So-so first half, not really getting too far ahead of his teammate and then really consistently strong 2nd half of the year- seemed to be putting an increasingly competitive Force India higher up than most expected.

It's obvious that Sauber see in him something that many of us missed. In my case I was busy with other drivers and haven't paid attention, but that may change.

[2ms]

Im currently rewatching the whole season, and both vettel and alonso made unforced errors (vettel in malaysia getting a puncture, brazil as well, alonso in suzuka squeezing Kimi), and raikonnen was rusty on the start of the season, so my top 5 would be

Hamilton (shame about team meltdown, had a stellar season)
vettel, alonso and raikkonen all equal
and cant really decide so far on the fifth, hulkenberg was frankly nowhere on the early races.

Were you watching Button?

[aditya-now]

Were you watching Button?

Button was outstanding in Spa, and that superb drive alone warranted a Top 5 ranking, at least in my own book. That's why I have him at #5. I didn't not see a comparable drive by Hülkenberg the whole season (even considering his car material), so to me Nico has been #6 in 2012.

[Rikhart]

Were you watching Button?

Of course, but we all know that he started and ended the season strongly, but the rest was very bad. Not top 5 material in my book.

[Alcibiades]

Of course, but we all know that he started and ended the season strongly, but the rest was very bad. Not top 5 material in my book.

For me though it's so subjective.

1 Hamilton
2 Vettel
3 Alonso

4 Kimi
5 Button

[Burtros]

Its all about 5th really, top 4 are pretty clear but my order is;

Alonso
Hamilton
Raikkonen
Vettel

Then this year theres been a gulf to the rest.

So, 5th? Button won 3 races. Perez got 3 podiums. Hulkenberg at a stretch has a shout, although I think his inclusion as the favourite shows very much how true the saying that 'you are only as good as your last race' can be at times. Grosjean looks insanely quick but also insanely dangerous at times.

On balance, heart says Grosjean just because of his early speed before the problems. But his problems were too many to justify it. Head says Jenson as he won 3GP's, as many as Alonso and bettered by only Hamilton and Vettel.

[MP422]

It's my point of view and my opinion, you got your own, I just didn't see Hamilton doing anything spectacular this season... while Hülkenberg was indeed impressive in Brazil

but like I said all depends on the Point of View.... so nothing to discuss about opinions

Real impressive... The start gets all messed up for Vettel and Nico gets the hookup.. he runs well in the changeable conditions. Then he makes a bold move for the lead and cleans out the leader blowing a easy podium and earning himself a drive through penalty. Yea Impressive drive.

[Brandz07]

haha hulkenberg better then hamilton hahaha !!!

If the Malaysian GP was the last race of the year Sergio might of been there.

Nico has got a lot of talent but I think it may be a bit hasty to put him in the top 5.

Edited by Brandz07, 02 January 2013 - 18:46.

[Anderis]

Real impressive... The start gets all messed up for Vettel and Nico gets the hookup.. he runs well in the changeable conditions. Then he makes a bold move for the lead and cleans out the leader blowing a easy podium and earning himself a drive through penalty. Yea Impressive drive.

What was impressive in this is how the hell was he quick enough to cleans out the leader of the race. Even with that crash and DT he finished in this race only behind drivers in far superior cars. If not that Safety Car after Rosberg's puncture, he could win a race and lap all but 2 or 3 drivers in very average midfield car. This was extraordinary effort ended by ordinary mistake, but it could have gone different with more luck and then I would probably call this as the greatest drive I had ever seen in F1 (since I watch it- 2007)

[NotSoSilentBob]

To be booting Webber out of the Top 5 seems a tad harsh. I mean..... how good is Vettel? And how good is DiResta to those putting Hulkenberg ahead of him?

"You're only as good as your last race" (which is as far back as many of you can remember, imo)

[aditya-now]

To be booting Webber out of the Top 5 seems a tad harsh. I mean..... how good is Vettel? And how good is DiResta to those putting Hulkenberg ahead of him?

"You're only as good as your last race" (which is as far back as many of you can remember, imo)

Although I do like Webber a lot, I have to say he "booted himself out" of the Top 5 this year. Didn't Webbo become 6th in the 2012 WDC, driving the same car like Vettel?

[seahawk]

1. Hamilton
2. Alonso
3. Vettel
4. Kimi
5. Rosberg

[AnR]

1. vettel
2. Alonso
3. Kimi
4. Hamilton

I agree completely with 2012 standings

[tifosiMac]

To be booting Webber out of the Top 5 seems a tad harsh. I mean..... how good is Vettel?

I think Vettel is a lot better than Webber as far as consistency goes. Most of the time he puts Webber in the shade as we all know and seems to adapt a lot quicker. Having said that, on his day Mark keeps Vettel very honest and on occasion totally dominates Seb. Mark is certainly a very good racing driver and even if he is not in the top 5, he's still a league above the rest IMO.

[NotSoSilentBob]

Most of the time (Vettel) puts Webber in the shade as we all know and seems to adapt a lot quicker.

Possibly because the car's built around his tastes? As I think Mark Hughes noted in his season review of the Top 10 drivers, Mark only lost qualifying to Vettel 11 - 9 this year, and was right with Vettel until the Singapore updates made the RB8 behave like Vettel's favoured RB7. This pretty much co-incided with Webber having several technical failures which led to grid penalties.

Although I do like Webber a lot, I have to say he "booted himself out" of the Top 5 this year. Didn't Webbo become 6th in the 2012 WDC, driving the same car like Vettel?

as above.

[tifosiMac]

Possibly because the car's built around his tastes? As I think Mark Hughes noted in his season review of the Top 10 drivers, Mark only lost qualifying to Vettel 11 - 9 this year, and was right with Vettel until the Singapore updates made the RB8 behave like Vettel's favoured RB7. This pretty much co-incided with Webber having several technical failures which led to grid penalties.

I would say the regulations suit Vettel better than Mark as cars don't generally get designed/built to favour a driver unless of course its by accident. More likely its a similar scenario to what we saw at McLaren where Button struggled with tyre and break temperatures. Some drivers adapt better than others and Mark has admitted himself he has struggled.

[Rinehart]

Button .... in top5s? What are people smoking?

Err same thing as the Team Principles I guess.

Its not hard to realise that 3 excellent wins against a teammate who is apparently "the best", plus drives such as Germany, Austin & Monza ranks well ahead of slightly beating an inexperienced teammate and throwing a win away? The real question is if Kimis season beats Button or not. Sure Kimi outscored Button, but what was the Lotus capable of with Hamilton in it and did Kimi put in 6 performances that beat the 6 listed for Button? Button did what he did with a 6 race set-up black hole, Kimi did what he did with a race-rusty start to the year. I have them pretty equal on that basis in 2012 and overall.

Fwiw, ranking drivers on their 2012 performance is one thing, but in overall terms, the 5 current WDC's are way ahead of any that aren't yet.

[Rybo]

Err same thing as the Team Principles I guess.

Its not hard to realise that 3 excellent wins against a teammate who is apparently "the best", plus drives such as Germany, Austin & Monza ranks well ahead of slightly beating an inexperienced teammate and throwing a win away? The real question is if Kimis season beats Button or not. Sure Kimi outscored Button, but what was the Lotus capable of with Hamilton in it and did Kimi put in 6 performances that beat the 6 listed for Button? Button did what he did with a 6 race set-up black hole, Kimi did what he did with a race-rusty start to the year. I have them pretty equal on that basis in 2012 and overall.

Fwiw, ranking drivers on their 2012 performance is one thing, but in overall terms, the 5 current WDC's are way ahead of any that aren't yet.

Let's not forget that only one of those three wins came on track. LH didn't make it to the first corner in Spa, and was wiped out by the Hulk in Brazil, after he passed JB. It is a shame that neither JB or LH won the WDC and WCC. However I believe that Kimi was better throughout the season, and he did have the benefit of a more reliable car. I think its unacceptable to get lapped by your team mate who goes on to win the race. I know that isn't 100% Jenson's fault and equal blame falls to the team, but come on Kimi only had one none points finish. Besides Fernando with his 13 podiums its hard to argue anyone else was more consistent. Lewis drove exceptionally and was only hampered by an inept quality control department. Seb
did exactly what he needed to when it came down to it, albeit helped by a failing McLaren once or twice.

Its tough where to place Jenson though. I think Jenson is a great driver that just had a off year, but I rate Hulk's season as better. Pace wise Force India was behind RBR, Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus, Mercedes, Sauber, and Williams, yet Hulk managed to take the fight to them.

[selespeed]

let's not forget that jenson had 40sec or something lead over hamilton before sc in brazil...

[Rybo]

What's your point? That Lewis made the wrong call? That Jenson made the right call?

[selespeed]

after he passed JB.

who passed who before the sc??

[Rybo]

who passed who before the sc??

I'm not arguing that. I am saying in the three wins against the "best" teammate. Only one was decided on the track as in the both raced and finished. At the time of Lewis' retirement in brazil what position was he in?

[selespeed]

in the right position...to take advantage of hulk vs lewis!

[Rybo]

Sure just like Alonso?

[NotSoSilentBob]

I would say the regulations suit Vettel better than Mark as cars don't generally get designed/built to favour a driver unless of course its by accident. More likely its a similar scenario to what we saw at McLaren where Button struggled with tyre and break temperatures. Some drivers adapt better than others and Mark has admitted himself he has struggled.

As I suggested:

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104991

[Kingshark]

Sorry for bumping this slightly old thread, but I have to get my feelings on this matter across.

Seriously, Hulkenberg is among the most overrated drivers on the grid. I have yet to come by a single reason to why people rate this guy above drivers such as Button, Webber, Rosberg or Massa; let alone in the same bracket as the top 4.

He was thoroughly outperformed by Di Resta in the first half of the season, and didn't wake up until Europe. Him and Di Resta have been neck in neck this season until Brazil, where in a one-off race Hulkenberg does a better job, and suddenly he's praised as if he is the greatest thing human being since Jesus Christ. Hell, he even choked and screwed up what should have been a certain victory in Interlagos, spinning into Lewis.

[Kingshark]

Regardless of that. At this very moment, point and time, my top 10 are:

1.) Alonso
2.) Hamilton
3.) Vettel
4.) Raikkonen
5.) Button
6.) Rosberg

Webber, Hulkenburg, Perez and Massa round up the top 10 in no particular order.

[Kelateboy]

As I suggested:

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104991

And the driver himself said that RB8 late season car development did not favor Sebastian.

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/97470.html

[Sin]

Sorry for bumping this slightly old thread, but I have to get my feelings on this matter across.

Seriously, Hulkenberg is among the most overrated drivers on the grid. I have yet to come by a single reason to why people rate this guy above drivers such as Button, Webber, Rosberg or Massa; let alone in the same bracket as the top 4.

He was thoroughly outperformed by Di Resta in the first half of the season, and didn't wake up until Europe. Him and Di Resta have been neck in neck this season until Brazil, where in a one-off race Hulkenberg does a better job, and suddenly he's praised as if he is the greatest thing human being since Jesus Christ. Hell, he even choked and screwed up what should have been a certain victory in Interlagos, spinning into Lewis.

infact I thought Hülkenberg was pretty awesome already BEFORE Brazil ....

[Ralliart]

Top 5 in no order:
Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, Button, Raikkonen

[aditya-now]

Top 5 in no order:
Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, Button, Raikkonen

Keep your votes coming in, I'll make a recount and add those late votes.

[Rinehart]

I think if the whole grid drove the RB8 for a season, Alonso, Hamilton, Raikkonen, Vettel, Button and Hulkenberg would be the top 6 easily.

More than likely Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel and Button the top 4 over a season.

Can see anyone of those 4 scoring the most, if you take crashes, weather, dramas and penalties into it.

If I had to order the likelihood, I think I'd just about go Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, Button, but for reasons given, anything could happen, its that close at the top.

[Kvothe]

Sorry for bumping this slightly old thread, but I have to get my feelings on this matter across.

Seriously, Hulkenberg is among the most overrated drivers on the grid. I have yet to come by a single reason to why people rate this guy above drivers such as Button, Webber, Rosberg or Massa; let alone in the same bracket as the top 4.

He was thoroughly outperformed by Di Resta in the first half of the season, and didn't wake up until Europe. Him and Di Resta have been neck in neck this season until Brazil, where in a one-off race Hulkenberg does a better job, and suddenly he's praised as if he is the greatest thing human being since Jesus Christ. Hell, he even choked and screwed up what should have been a certain victory in Interlagos, spinning into Lewis.

It took a while for 'Hulkenberg to wake up' primarily because he had to adapt to using the Pirelli tyres, as opposed to Di resta who had already spent a year on them; the fact he was able to beat a driver in his own team in just his first year is quite impressive.

I also disagree with the notion he was thoroughly outperformed in the first season, as early as Spain Hulkenberg was outperforming Di resta with an excellant defensive performance that kept Webber behind him, and allowed him to beat his team mate despite starting behind. He also outquaified him in Monaco, and it was only Grosjean's incident that allowed Di resta to get ahead.

Europe and Germany were real eye openers for me where Hulkenberg especially in the latter qualified fourth in a wet qualifying session, and despite dropping back put up an excellent defensive display especially against the much faster McLaren of Jenson Button. It showed he had that star quality to make a difference, something which Di resta never showed, it was also clear that this marked the time Hulkenberg began to understand the tyres since from than on Di resta was never able to beat Hulkenberg again, except for Monza and Singapore where 'The Hulk' experienced mechanical problems, and in Korea where Di resta dived down the inside of the first corner sandwiching Hulkenberg, ending in the latter's retirement. These three races as well as the first quarter of the season were the only reason they were still neck and neck, when in reality there should have been a decent amount of sunlight between them.

The reality is from Europe onwards (race 7) Hulkenberg was the much better driver) and while Hulkenberg lost it while battling win wet conditions, he at least was able to produce something extra to battle for first and pull away from the McLaren of Jenson Button when the track dried up; Di resta lost it driving by himself, not even fighting for a top five position.

IMO he is the only driver in the midfield who looks like he has the potential to be a complete package, and capable of challenging for the WDC given the right equipment.

[RayInTorontoCanada]

There was a time when di Resta was in line for a Mercedes GP seat (Michael's, if he chose to retire) or an outside chance at McLaren (if Lewis didn't re-sigh).

That was in the first quarter to third of the season just passed.

Why?

Because the paddock was rating di Resta quite highly.

Well...the Hulk came along (after no experience on Pirellis in qually and races) and smashed in that reputation.

By logic, if Hulk has come along and smashed di Resta's reputation, then - and obviously - it must go to show that the Hulk himself ought to be rated ... and ABOVE di Resta.

Now, if Hulk had come along and beaten Senna or Kovalainen or Koba, i'd be wondering.

But di Resta was/is (?) is different kettel of fish. No one was talking about Senna or Kovy or Koba taking a Mercedes or McLaren seat.

Lastly, I think Hulk is being rated higher than Webber, Button, Massa in 2012 is because Massa was nowhere until August, Button was no for a handful of races in which the McLaren was being raced at the front...and Webber was nowhere following the summer break.

All three drivers from the Grandees had a **** period that was way lower than Hulk encountered. And all three had been well versed in Pirellis.

Edited by RayInTorontoCanada, 10 January 2013 - 20:04.