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Official Formula E thread


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#101 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 17:51

Yeah but swapping cars doesn't help the terrible image electric vehicles have with regards to endurance.

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#102 olliek88

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 18:00

The running 100 meters to your 2nd car is a little too "Its A Knockout" for my liking, the rest of it is however peaking my interest a bit i can't deny it, will be interesting to see the quality of driver they are able to attract, that pretty important for the series to establish itself IMHO.


#103 BullHead

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 18:04

Yeah, I think 2 or 3 sprint races 20mins long would be a better format.

#104 Shiroo

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 19:14

everything seems pretty fine except the "RUN 100m". DDafuq? What's the god damn point of that?

#105 JHSingo

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 19:26

How is it a stupid idea? There is a lot of potential in electric vehicles. What better way to advance them than with competition?


Because electric cars are certainly not the future. It has been proven time and time again just how useless electric cars are, and what a giant leap backwards they are. The batteries go flat quickly, and then take forever and a day to recharge.

Formula E is doing absolutely nothing in terms of looking at a solution for that. If it was, why the hell would they need two cars for each driver at each race?

It's farcical, it really is, and the sooner this series is a flop, the sooner we can start properly looking at the future of cars, which will probably be something like hydrogen power.

Edited by JHSingo, 13 July 2013 - 19:27.


#106 NotAPineapple

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 20:58

Because electric cars are certainly not the future. It has been proven time and time again just how useless electric cars are, and what a giant leap backwards they are. The batteries go flat quickly, and then take forever and a day to recharge.

Formula E is doing absolutely nothing in terms of looking at a solution for that. If it was, why the hell would they need two cars for each driver at each race?

It's farcical, it really is, and the sooner this series is a flop, the sooner we can start properly looking at the future of cars, which will probably be something like hydrogen power.


To me, the problem is electric cars is just the waiting time to recharge. Range is no llonger a problem. The latest cars from Tesla for example have a range of 500km. And as electrc technology improves the range will get better. But really, its already at the level of a combustion engine.

The deal breaker is still the charging time. No-one are prepared are prepared wait 4 hours break to top up and rightly so. Even the Tesla supercharger needs 30min to get 300km of range. And these are expensive cars too. Eat a bag of dicks, I can fill up my 2000€ car in 2min.

Even though the use of electric motors in transport has been around over 100 years, their use as an everyday driver with an onboard power supply is still in its infancy. And I think a race series could do to electric power trains what F1 and sportscar racing did for engine and chassis development in the 50s and 60s. That is throwing loads of time, money and reasearch at the problem to get the maximum performance possible.

To be honest Im not an expert on powertrains. Its not my area, but it certainly seems to me that everyone are moving in the direction of electric. Fuel cells have died off, hydrogen has died off, solar died off years ago when people realised they didnt actually produce enough energy to power the entertainment system let alone a 2000kg car.

If the FIA have the balls to let the engines get really powerful and the series owner can find a tyre supplier with equally massive balls, there is no reason they couldnt lap as fast as an F1 car.

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#107 ElDictatore

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 00:46

Because electric cars are certainly not the future. It has been proven time and time again just how useless electric cars are, and what a giant leap backwards they are.


Nope.

The batteries go flat quickly, and then take forever and a day to recharge.


Well with a racing series, competition and money they will adress these problems and make them better. Electric cars are still advancing and that pretty fast. There are more and more efficient ways to regain power through braking and such.

Formula E is doing absolutely nothing in terms of looking at a solution for that. If it was, why the hell would they need two cars for each driver at each race?


How do you even know that? The series hasn't even begun. Maybe it will be a flop, who knows. But we wouldn't be where we are if we don't try out things and develop. And the potential in electric cars are great and I'm glad that we're slowly looking into alternatives to combustion engines.

#108 pingu666

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 02:34

I'd rather see battery swap, or battery saving to make the distance.

besides you really need wireless charging, that would make range much better

#109 FredrikB

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 06:02

Running 100 meters? Terrible joke.
They should really look at more and shorter races.

I'm really exited that they are trying to run an electric formula. It may not be the whole future of motorsport, but it will probably be a big part of it.
Electric vehicles has been tried before, but this time around almost all car manufacturers is working on one or more in their line up.

Cars in the future will not be running on one or two types of fuel. I'm convinced we will see a whole range of energy sources used to run cars and other types of transportation depending on how that vehicle is used and what types of energy that can be harvested locally. In Sweden, for example, we have millions of trees that used to be made in to paper. Demand for paper has gone down pretty quickly, we are all going digital you know. Lets make bio fuel instead.

#110 Dipster

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 06:54

This could be fun for the driver. Belting about in anything can be fun. But we will have to wait and see what spectators make of it.
And why was the demo driver wearing fire-proof overalls? No fuel, no fire risk? Just a thought.......

#111 SR388

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:05

This could be fun for the driver. Belting about in anything can be fun. But we will have to wait and see what spectators make of it.
And why was the demo driver wearing fire-proof overalls? No fuel, no fire risk? Just a thought.......






#112 alfa1

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:20





From doing a google search, the battery in Formula E will appear to be the Lithium-Ion type, not the Li-po's in those videos.

Lithium Ion types catch fire in laptops, phones and Dreamliner aircraft. :)


#113 Fulcrum

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:18

Bluebird Will Supply Cars to Formula E for 2014 Season

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#114 wingwalker

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 09:04

I don't see the point at all. But the driver was really going at it in that demo run.

#115 JHSingo

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:45

How do you even know that? The series hasn't even begun. Maybe it will be a flop, who knows. But we wouldn't be where we are if we don't try out things and develop. And the potential in electric cars are great and I'm glad that we're slowly looking into alternatives to combustion engines.


You completely missed my main point.

How is having two cars for each driver, because one can't complete a race distance, "green", or in anyway technological progress? It isn't. What is this "potential" you speak of, other than being something to laugh at?

If anything, it just sums up what a stupid idea it is, having to fly all these cars with redundant technology around the world just to please Green Peace or whoever. This series won't achieve anything.

Add in the fact that the cars are slow/ugly and silent, and well, call me a dinosaur, but I think I'll stick to traditional motorsport, thanks.

Edited by JHSingo, 14 July 2013 - 11:46.


#116 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 12:07

Bye then.

#117 krapmeister

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 12:56

Bluebird Will Supply Cars to Formula E for 2014 Season

Posted Image


That looks pretty good :up: - certainly better than the DW12.

#118 Sardukar

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 13:44

You completely missed my main point.

How is having two cars for each driver, because one can't complete a race distance, "green", or in anyway technological progress? It isn't. What is this "potential" you speak of, other than being something to laugh at?

If anything, it just sums up what a stupid idea it is, having to fly all these cars with redundant technology around the world just to please Green Peace or whoever. This series won't achieve anything.

Add in the fact that the cars are slow/ugly and silent, and well, call me a dinosaur, but I think I'll stick to traditional motorsport, thanks.


You might not know this but people are capable of enjoying varying forms of motorsport. No really, i'm not lying to you, it's true.

#119 FredrikB

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 14:03

Bye then.

:up:

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#120 JHSingo

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 14:07

You might not know this but people are capable of enjoying varying forms of motorsport. No really, i'm not lying to you, it's true.


Indeed. It may have escaped you, but I never said otherwise. I certainly enjoy many forms of motorsport too.

But this one? :yawnface:

#121 ApexMouse

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 14:39

Bye then.

#122 JHSingo

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 15:28

Bye then.



Bye then.


Apologies, I was under the illusion that this was a DISCUSSION board.

#123 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 15:30

It is, you've made your point about how this is the death of racing. But it's not being forced upon F1, it's an entirely new series off doing its own thing and you will easily be able to avoid its offensive technology.

#124 ElDictatore

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 15:44

You completely missed my main point.

How is having two cars for each driver, because one can't complete a race distance, "green", or in anyway technological progress? It isn't. What is this "potential" you speak of, other than being something to laugh at?

If anything, it just sums up what a stupid idea it is, having to fly all these cars with redundant technology around the world just to please Green Peace or whoever. This series won't achieve anything.

Add in the fact that the cars are slow/ugly and silent, and well, call me a dinosaur, but I think I'll stick to traditional motorsport, thanks.


Racing is never green. That's not even the point of Formula E. They want to get technologies that way that CAN be green. Formula E in itself isnt green. So the potential is development potential.

Also they are not slow. They can even be faster, especially in acceleration due to instant torque. Add to that torque vectoring in a 4WD car and you have awesome cornering speeds.
Infact two electrical cars won Formula Student last week in Silverstone against Combustion (even the endurance event). So much about slow.

Humanity would be nowhere if they would through every idea in the trash.

#125 Dipster

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 15:50

From doing a google search, the battery in Formula E will appear to be the Lithium-Ion type, not the Li-po's in those videos.

Lithium Ion types catch fire in laptops, phones and Dreamliner aircraft. :)



Point taken. I will stick to diesel then.............

#126 Shiroo

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 16:05

It is, you've made your point about how this is the death of racing. But it's not being forced upon F1, it's an entirely new series off doing its own thing and you will easily be able to avoid its offensive technology.

Well mate

Posted Image


First of all: If someone doesn't want to watch it, he can stick with IndyCar, F1, Nascar, Le Mans etc etc.

But for some of us (me included) it is just something new, and maybe worth watching. I've no idea how it will look like, but battery run Formula races sounds not bad (with the exception of 100m race...). I will give it a shoot and hopefull iy will be worth my time :).

If someonedon't like it, then simply don't watch. But calling it death of racing is overkill anyway. I believe it might produce some fine racing and might develop something that will help out normal cars (while Formula 1 can't, cause all of these restrictions nowdays. Most of things used by normal cars is brought from Le Mans I believe)

Edited by Shiroo, 14 July 2013 - 16:06.


#127 kimifan88

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 16:23

Well mate

First of all: If someone doesn't want to watch it, he can stick with IndyCar, F1, Nascar, Le Mans etc etc.


Why does it have to be a choice between them? According to this
http://www.autoweek....DYCAR/130719925

an Indy team will race in Formula E. Are they hedging their bets in case Formula E draws people away from Indy? I doubt it.

#128 HaydenFan

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 16:53

I'd rather see battery swap, or battery saving to make the distance.

besides you really need wireless charging, that would make range much better


Issue with that is the size of the batteries. These cars have enormous batteries that you simply just cannot take out and replace.

#129 olliek88

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 18:18

Formula E, as others have said, is an alternate not a replacement for any series. F1 will always be F1, sure its moving towards "green" technology (albeit its basically a veneer) but Forumla E does fill a hole in the market. Right now the batteries might only have enough charge for half a race which results in a rather ridiculous situation of drivers running to their cars but the investment from several F1 outfits and their ability to develop might result in the issue of battery tech being improved, both in range and performance which might filter down into road car technology, at least thats the idea and that's were FE might be deemed relevant and gain even more interest from car manufactures.

If it can get things right regarding drivers, race formats and racing quality it could have a bright future, if not it might just be another A1GP but i'm curious about it.

#130 Kalmake

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 18:50

Making drivers run is great marketing against e-cars. Who came up with that are idiots or want this to fail.

#131 JHSingo

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 21:49

Also they are not slow. They can even be faster, especially in acceleration due to instant torque. Add to that torque vectoring in a 4WD car and you have awesome cornering speeds.


So why are they only going to race on street circuits then? Because if they raced on a normal track, they'd look slow. Part of the reason for them racing exclusively on street tracks is to make them look faster than they'll actually be.

Plus I think people are misunderstanding me. When did I say it would be the death of motorsport? I didn't. I simply said it is one of the stupidest ideas the FIA has come up with in a long time.

And despite what Ross says, I highly doubt I'll be reading about it in any of the leading newspapers or hearing about it on TV any time soon either.

I am not against alternative fuels or new championships with new technology. I just think that the electric concept is totally the wrong way to be going, because electric cars aren't in the least bit practical. Personally, I think the hybrid technologies that are being developed in LMP1 cars are far more relevant and have far greater potential than electric power.

And yeah, silent race cars (apart from the Audi R18 ;)) do nothing for me. The noise is part of the atmosphere. Going to a race where the cars are silent would be like going to a football match where the crowd isn't allowed to chant etc, has to be silent, and can only applaud at the right time, like in snooker. Fundamentally wrong.

Edited by JHSingo, 14 July 2013 - 21:50.


#132 Risil

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 21:55

Snooker and tennis fundamentally wrong? Interesting perspective.

#133 Shiroo

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 22:07

So why are they only going to race on street circuits then? Because if they raced on a normal track, they'd look slow. Part of the reason for them racing exclusively on street tracks is to make them look faster than they'll actually be.

Plus I think people are misunderstanding me. When did I say it would be the death of motorsport? I didn't. I simply said it is one of the stupidest ideas the FIA has come up with in a long time.

And despite what Ross says, I highly doubt I'll be reading about it in any of the leading newspapers or hearing about it on TV any time soon either.

I am not against alternative fuels or new championships with new technology. I just think that the electric concept is totally the wrong way to be going, because electric cars aren't in the least bit practical. Personally, I think the hybrid technologies that are being developed in LMP1 cars are far more relevant and have far greater potential than electric power.

And yeah, silent race cars (apart from the Audi R18 ;)) do nothing for me. The noise is part of the atmosphere. Going to a race where the cars are silent would be like going to a football match where the crowd isn't allowed to chant etc, has to be silent, and can only applaud at the right time, like in snooker. Fundamentally wrong.

Try to concentrate playing snooker with crowd going wild. (well it would look bizzare in first place)

Edited by Shiroo, 14 July 2013 - 22:07.


#134 JHSingo

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 22:13

Snooker and tennis fundamentally wrong? Interesting perspective.


Try to concentrate playing snooker with crowd going wild. (well it would look bizzare in first place)


You both missed the comparison I was making. I probably worded it wrong, sorry. I mean you couldn't imagine the crowd being silent (like they are for snooker) at a football match. Likewise, going to a race that has a grid full of silent cars is equally out of place.

#135 ElDictatore

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 22:14

So why are they only going to race on street circuits then? Because if they raced on a normal track, they'd look slow. Part of the reason for them racing exclusively on street tracks is to make them look faster than they'll actually be.


Since it's major strength over combustion is instant torque, yes you want a cirtcuit where you rely on traction and less on high speed traps. But still they aren't slow.

Also street circuits since that will have more people notice it and pushing it's marketing into that "emmission-free" thing.

#136 Shiroo

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 22:17

You both missed the comparison I was making. I probably worded it wrong, sorry. I mean you couldn't imagine the crowd being silent (like they are for snooker) at a football match. Likewise, going to a race that has a grid full of silent cars is equally out of place.

they aren't silent in the first place I believe. They sounds a tad different and not as loud as normal cars

#137 muramasa

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 22:25

So why are they only going to race on street circuits then? Because if they raced on a normal track, they'd look slow. Part of the reason for them racing exclusively on street tracks is to make them look faster than they'll actually be.

zero emission/noise PR! Can hold joint event with major marathon!

I am not against alternative fuels or new championships with new technology. I just think that the electric concept is totally the wrong way to be going, because electric cars aren't in the least bit practical. Personally, I think the hybrid technologies that are being developed in LMP1 cars are far more relevant and have far greater potential than electric power.

not so wrong at all. at least worth trying. as oil is expected/known to run out in mid-longer term, we shud rely less and less on oil for energy source, either for power or electric, so that the shift in energy source and technology innovation is necessary. That means combustion motor out, electric motor in. And extracting more and more energy as a form of electric from renewables like sun and wind, and nuclear energy etc will be key for future. Hence perusing technology of electric vehicle. Sure it's not practical yet but that's the very point of doing this. IMO it's far more relevant and exciting than A1GP, Superleague Formula or AutoGP. Sure, might turn out that motorsport form isnt a way of innovating in this field. But give it 5 years or so to see how it will turn out and judge, i'd say.


#138 Risil

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 22:51

You both missed the comparison I was making. I probably worded it wrong, sorry. I mean you couldn't imagine the crowd being silent (like they are for snooker) at a football match. Likewise, going to a race that has a grid full of silent cars is equally out of place.


No probs. I'm wondering about that too. The sound is more important than a TV audience habitually assumes. Especially in a modern single seater which keeps wheels inline and chassis dead level at all times.

I'm glad this is actually going ahead, there's a few questions about electric racing that need answering.

Edited by Risil, 14 July 2013 - 22:51.


#139 alframsey

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 00:10

This is clearly a racing formula geared towards development potential! Battery tech will likely be developed faster than otherwise would have been as will all other areas I imagine...

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#140 sergeym

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:34

Issue with that is the size of the batteries. These cars have enormous batteries that you simply just cannot take out and replace.


I think real problem is not the size, but how batteries are placed within the car to improve weight distribution.

#141 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 16:24

The getting out and running bit is stupid.

But the thing will be if people find it interesting, what happens at the point where they lap as fast as F1 or faster? With F1 getting slower, LMPs getting faster, F1 is leaving the door open in the future.

Electric IS the future. F1 needs to either accept that, or go back to 3 liter V10's and acknowledge it's an anachronism.

I hate a future of silent race cars, BUT that could be offset by ultra-high torque: I want the "problem" to be so much torque the front wheels want to lift off the ground, and cars that accelerate off corners in a visually-unreal fashion.

It's going to take something like that for it to catch on IMO. It's a shame Formula One doesn't make the electric side of the regs wide open.

Edited by Rubens Hakkamacher, 15 July 2013 - 16:26.


#142 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 16:27

It'd be relatively easy to go faster than an F1 car, you just write a rule.

#143 One

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 20:15

Why does it have to be a choice between them? According to this
http://www.autoweek....DYCAR/130719925

an Indy team will race in Formula E. Are they hedging their bets in case Formula E draws people away from Indy? I doubt it.


In it, Agag says that F-E is a drive terrain competition.

I want them to pursuit more extreme with the regs.

How about getting rid of All wings and aero devices and make car like this?

http://www.racedepar...sicformula1.jpg



#144 Brother Fox

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 03:37

Im quite surprised Tesla aren't sticking their nose into this.
Unless they're waiting to see if it gets off the ground and has some longer term potential.



If something like this could lead to better batteries/charging then commerical electric cars suddenly become more viable too.
As was mentioned, if you can get 500km off a charge then thats *roughly* eqivalent to a tank of petrol. If they can get charging time down to 5 minutes then its good bye oil producing nations.


#145 ElDictatore

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 03:39

I think real problem is not the size, but how batteries are placed within the car to improve weight distribution.


It will also be placed so it can be properly cooled. They will get pretty hot.
Can't really see battery change during the race.

#146 sergeym

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 05:33

As was mentioned, if you can get 500km off a charge then thats *roughly* eqivalent to a tank of petrol. If they can get charging time down to 5 minutes then its good bye oil producing nations.


Actually its not that simple. The energy must come from somewhere and right now most energy is generated from fossil fuel. Also if you replace all petrol/diesel cars with electric electricity prices are guaranteed to increase.

Edited by sergeym, 16 July 2013 - 05:42.


#147 Sardukar

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:12

I think most countries generate the majority of their energy from Nuclear or Coal power plants. But the cool thing is that renewable energy is actually gaining on traditional sources. I think here in Australia "green" energy usage increased by about 2% or something in the last year. But even if everyone still uses Coal for a few more decades, it's better to burn it all in one place then have it polluting cities and neighbourhoods from cars.

#148 Brother Fox

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:29

It was skipping out a few steps but I thought we could follow that.



#149 sergeym

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:29

I think most countries generate the majority of their energy from Nuclear or Coal power plants. But the cool thing is that renewable energy is actually gaining on traditional sources. I think here in Australia "green" energy usage increased by about 2% or something in the last year. But even if everyone still uses Coal for a few more decades, it's better to burn it all in one place then have it polluting cities and neighbourhoods from cars.



I'm not sure that renewable energy will ever completely replace fossil and nuclear energy. Beside despite being labeled as green it still has problems - hydroelectric plants disrupt natural river flow, production of solar panel is very toxic and so on.

Actually i would not be surprised if it turns out that nuclear energy has the least overall impact on environment. Unfortunately people have almost irrational fear of radiation. Nobody wants to live near nuclear power plant yet burning coal actually release more radiation.

Edited by sergeym, 16 July 2013 - 06:32.


#150 One

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 10:16

I'm not sure that renewable energy will ever completely replace fossil and nuclear energy. Beside despite being labeled as green it still has problems - hydroelectric plants disrupt natural river flow, production of solar panel is very toxic and so on.

Actually i would not be surprised if it turns out that nuclear energy has the least overall impact on environment. Unfortunately people have almost irrational fear of radiation. Nobody wants to live near nuclear power plant yet burning coal actually release more radiation.


Lots of oils, yes, but nuclear, this is a true trouble, constly and it is about millions's years contamination.