25 replies to this topic

[eronrules]

Marussia not offered 2013 Concorde Agreement deal - F1zone.net

Marussia is the only team on the official 2013 entry list that is yet to be offered a new Concorde Agreement deal.

The German website motorsport-total.com reports that the news could be particularly bad for the Russian-owned British backmarker, as Bernie Ecclestone is apparently considering scrapping the so-called ‘column 3′ benefits for the sport’s new teams that debuted in 2010.

Presumably, Ecclestone wants to scrap the column-3 entitlements because Caterham has moved into a higher status due to regularly finishing tenth in the constructors’ world championship.

things looking bleak for Marussia after a superb 2012 season.

[MortenF1]

Strange I think. Surely they'll be offered a deal, but a worse one. The point about regularly finishing tenth doesn't make much sense.

Edited by race addicted, 05 December 2012 - 13:02.

[eronrules]

Strange I think. Surely they'll be offered a deal, but a worse one. The point about regularly finishing tenth doesn't make much sense.

well if Minardi was allowed to race all those years, why not marussia??? specially when it seems they've turned up their game and actually catching up with caterham.

[Petroltorque]

This illustrates the problem with Private Equity having a controlling interest in F1. The money they save from withdrawing Column 3 goes straight in their pockets.
The benefit of eleven teams means that no-one's allowed to cruise for fear of falling out the money tree. I'm pretty sure Marussia will be offered a token payment plus travel costs.

[MustangSally]

This illustrates the problem with Private Equity having a controlling interest in F1. The money they save from withdrawing Column 3 goes straight in their pockets.
The benefit of eleven teams means that no-one's allowed to cruise for fear of falling out the money tree. I'm pretty sure Marussia will be offered a token payment plus travel costs.

Marussia's guy sounds pretty confident. Of course, he would say that, wouldn't he.

But it's true, financial people can pull the plug anytime - no sentiment there - and the team is heavily indebted.

I would imagine the lack of any Concorde agreement is quite a blow, especially on top of Petrov's last gasp 10th placewinner.

I remember Kolles saying how difficult it was at HRT, because everyone wants money up front for everything from a wobbly team. Just the travel costs could be a killer when you are short of cash.

[jjcale]

Are there still plans for a Russian GP?

[scheivlak]

"Marussia ask for 'level playing field' on Formula One prize money" http://www.guardian....one-prize-money

"We have been involved in the negotiations for the next Concorde Agreement but in a scenario where there is no Concorde for two or three years – and there is nothing in the rules that there has to be one – then there is nothing in place for us to benefit."

[Sakae]

Marussia needs to realize that F1 is a product of capitalism. The concept of "equal playing field" might mean in their language that they want the same deal as front teams, and with much less pain, skills, or contribution to the show. The investors must have known what the rules were when they send entrant fee in, and if Ecclestone promised them something under the table, take him to courts, as long as you remember that there is nothing equal in F1. Now they have a choice - wrap themselves around what it is and deal with it, or leave.

Edited by Sakae, 25 June 2013 - 15:12.

[HaydenFan]

Marussia needs to realize that F1 is a product of capitalism. The concept of "equal playing field" might mean in their language that they want the same deal as front teams, and with much less pain, skills, or contribution to the show. The investors must have known what the rules were when they send entrant fee in, and if Ecclestone promised them something under the table, take him to courts, as long as you remember that there is nothing equal in F1. Now they have a choice - wrap themselves around what it is and deal with it, or leave.

That is complete garbage. Today's F1 is a sport just like football, baseball, soccer, hockey. The series has reached a level, with television revenues being shared and the application process to get into F1 such a difficult issue that the series themselves have created a situation where they must take care of their teams. F1 has essentially created for themselves a Franchise system. Each team gets some money, and it is easier to buy an existing team than start your own. Much like all other sports. And because of that, it is F1's responsibility to maintain a level of financial health for each of their teams. In the case of Marussia, that might mean giving them more money. And after the budget limit proposal was squashed, you no longer see people trying to enter F1 like you did in 2009-2010. So if Marussia exits or Caterham or Williams, it will do detrimental damage to the sport. Not only to the car count, but for potential investors into the sport. Many people would be scared away from even thinking of starting a race program. And for potential sponsors, having these teams exit would scare them away as those with a smaller sponsorship budget who want to become involved in F1 would have to raise their budget to back the other remaining teams.

F1 was created around capitalism, yes, but today it is no longer that. It is a product of entertainment and sport.

[Lotusseven]

Are there still plans for a Russian GP?

I don't know how reliable this source is, but it looks like the Russian Grand Prix will be on the F1 calendar 2014...

Sochi Formula One Race Here to Stay - Official

MOSCOW, June 25 (R-Sport) - The Black Sea resort city of Sochi, set to host the first modern Russian Grand Prix motor race next year, is in Formula One for the long haul, an official said Tuesday.
A track is being built around the city's Olympic Park after then-Prime Minister Vladimir Putin signed a seven-year hosting agreement with F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone in 2010.
"I'm absolutely sure that Formula One will set in for a long time," said Oleg Zabara, an official with the Krasnodar regional administration. "Tourists from all over the world will come to the Russian Formula One stage."
The circuit, designed by regular F1 architect Hermann Tilke, is comparatively long at 5.9 kilometers and includes a 1.7-kilometer section on public roads.
The first-ever Russian Grand Prix is penciled in for fall 2014 at the Sochi track, which winds around six of the venues for next February’s Winter Olympics.

en.rian.ru?

Found this now Track Pit building Website

Edited by Lotusseven, 25 June 2013 - 17:45.

[Diablobb81]

Marussia needs to realize that F1 is a product of capitalism.

Especially the sell of the F1 rights for 100 years smells like capitalism. Not to mention that many of the money woes come from the fact that FIA wants more money since they received so much for the F1 rights.

[Anderis]

Marussia needs to realize that F1 is a product of capitalism. The concept of "equal playing field" might mean in their language that they want the same deal as front teams

The problem is not that they don't get the same deal as front teams. I don't think they would state "we deserve as much money as Ferrari". The problem is that they don't get any deal.

I think the most fair solution would be, if proportions between backmarkers and front teams would be around as big as they're in Premier League: ---> http://www.sportingi...2012-13-210501/

But in F1 top teams gets dozens of millions of $, midfield teams might not get even a half of that (I've read that from this year the imparity might be even bigger than it was previously), and Marussia gets 0. In competition, where the size of your budget might have perhaps bigger impact on your competitiveness, than anywhere else, it's not a healthy situation for F1. Nowadays, you can't start new McLaren, Williams or whatever from 0 and reach the top of F1, just by doing good job. When top teams have pretty much unlimited budgets, and when there is so much imparity in TV payments, the pecking order in F1 has to get very stale and somewhat uninspiring.

Only very big company with practically unlimited budget and much patience can change things, but then, these companies aren't interested to spend dozens of millions of $ and fight in a midfield for a while, because it's bad for their image. In recent years, only Red Bull had enough patience to do it. And I struggle to see who could repeat it. Anyhow, for me it would still be not a new racing team, but rather a new racing advert reaching the top. There's no place for new McLaren or new Williams in current F1, unfortunately.

Edited by Anderis, 25 June 2013 - 18:23.

[Sakae]

Especially the sell of the F1 rights for 100 years smells like capitalism. Not to mention that many of the money woes come from the fact that FIA wants more money since they received so much for the F1 rights.

There are bad people all over. Marussia can leave F1, if they think it's a better solution for them, or negotiate, if they have a leverage.

[Sakae]

The problem is not that they don't get the same deal as front teams. I don't think they would state "we deserve as much money as Ferrari". The problem is that they don't get any deal.

I think the most fair solution would be, if proportions between backmarkers and front teams would be around as big as they're in Premier League: ---> http://www.sportingi...2012-13-210501/

But in F1 top teams gets dozens of millions of $, midfield teams might not get even a half of that (I've read that from this year the imparity might be even bigger than it was previously), and Marussia gets 0. In competition, where the size of your budget might have perhaps bigger impact on your competitiveness, than anywhere else, it's not a healthy situation for F1. Nowadays, you can't start new McLaren, Williams or whatever from 0 and reach the top of F1, just by doing good job. When top teams have pretty much unlimited budgets, and when there is so much imparity in TV payments, the pecking order in F1 has to get very stale and somewhat uninspiring.

Only very big company with practically unlimited budget and much patience can change things, but then, these companies aren't interested to spend dozens of millions of $ and fight in a midfield for a while, because it's bad for their image. In recent years, only Red Bull had enough patience to do it. And I struggle to see who could repeat it. Anyhow, for me it would still be not a new racing team, but rather a new racing advert reaching the top. There's no place for new McLaren or new Williams in current F1, unfortunately.

Behaviour of front runners, or ethics of the commercial right holders hasn't changed much over the years. Perhaps next time new entrants have to perform more sophisticated risk analysis, as opposed to closing eyes, jumping off the cliff, and hoping for the best.

[KWSN - DSM]

There are many things wrong in the current F1 business model, problem the teams are having is that they really do not have a way to change anything, so the big teams are better of letting themselves being bought. The sale of the commercial rights for 100 years is as dumb a decision as could have been made, the manner in how the teams do not have a way to actually be paid relatively compared to what they bring is ridiculous, and there seem zero will to change the situation by anyone who could actually make a difference.

F1 is run extremely poorly these years, however most likely rose-tinted glasses making it seem it was ever run well.

[Wingcommander]

Perhaps next time new entrants have to perform more sophisticated risk analysis, as opposed to closing eyes, jumping off the cliff, and hoping for the best.

You're expecting that there will be new entrants? With the exception of the four teams that were lured in with an empty promise of cost control, Toyota was the only new team to have entered the sport during the last 15 years. I dont see this trend changing in the future. It is just too expensive to build a team from scratch, and the way the prize money is shared makes it only more expensive.

The biggest problem is that the sport apparently only wants ten teams.

[scheivlak]

The biggest problem is that the sport apparently only wants ten teams.

The sport? It's just Bernie.

Of course he thinks he's the sport and so far they let him get way with that.

[BigCHrome]

FOM are pathetic.

[Fastcake]

Marussia needs to realize that F1 is a product of capitalism. The concept of "equal playing field" might mean in their language that they want the same deal as front teams, and with much less pain, skills, or contribution to the show. The investors must have known what the rules were when they send entrant fee in, and if Ecclestone promised them something under the table, take him to courts, as long as you remember that there is nothing equal in F1. Now they have a choice - wrap themselves around what it is and deal with it, or leave.

We know you don't want so many teams, but the majority of us do want to see the grid fully populated and more drivers given the chance to race. It's not like every competitor needs to receive the same amount of money, it's perfectly fair to earn more as you achieve more, but the bottom teams need to get enough money so that they're not hovering around bankruptcy or relying on the Karthikeyan's of this world.

The sport? It's just Bernie.

Of course he thinks he's the sport and so far they let him get way with that.

Montezemolo certainly doesn't care about the lower half of the grid, and I'll wager many others in the sport wouldn't either if there was something in it for them.

[turssi]

Bernie probably has a buyer lined up and is doing his best to drive Marussia away from the sport :-)

[Sakae]

The biggest problem is that the sport apparently only wants ten teams.

I wonder if FOM informed new entrants, such as Marussia, during tendering process, that a field will be reduced to ten teams only under a new CA. They might have, but I sort off doubt that.

Edited by Sakae, 26 June 2013 - 05:25.

[Sakae]

We know you don't want so many teams, but the majority of us do want to see the grid fully populated and more drivers given the chance to race...

Montezemolo certainly doesn't care about the lower half of the grid, and I'll wager many others in the sport wouldn't either if there was something in it for them.

My personal views aside, Ecclestone is the one with whom you might need to discuss it. What I do not understand why F1 is pretending that all teams are in the same tier. Le Mans at least has some common sense to run in the same race different categories of entrants, why not then F1?

[Petroltorque]

I think it's worth noting that Ecclestone is answerable only to CVC partners, who are interested only in profit. The lack of any Concorde agreement simply means they can cream more money off the top.
AFAIK Marussia are looking to access the column 3 payments that have been cut. Its not inconceivable that at the end of the season Caterham could the ones holding the baby.
Consider also that teams like Williams and Sauber are also under financial strain that would leave the sport left with 6 teams ( I consider STR to be no more than a Red Bull lackey team). That would hardly leave a marketable commercial project.

[ensign14]

The sport? It's just Bernie.

I think ten teams want it to be just ten teams. If Sir Frank, for example, wants to sell up, Williams is worth a lot more if it is a guaranteed participant in a global sport that only has ten slots.

[pdac]

I think ten teams want it to be just ten teams. If Sir Frank, for example, wants to sell up, Williams is worth a lot more if it is a guaranteed participant in a global sport that only has ten slots.

I imagine there are a few teams that just want it to be five teams.

[pingu666]

if you remmber motogp when they had 16riders or whatever, and what a sad sight that was.