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Briatore- The only one who helped Ferrari was Webber


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#1 BackOnTop

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:43

This sounds weird & awkward to read a comment like that from Alonso & Webber's Manager Flavio Briatore, who forced NPjr to risk an accident for Alonso to gain Victory. . No that I am suggesting something fishy or stuff like that, but while watching Webber in Brazil against Vettel, it did look quite stupid driving from Webber. He did the same stunt with Vettel in Abu Dhabi till the team had to force-pit him.

But overall, I thought Webber was pushing his luck a bit too far with the Red Bull management during the races in Abu Dhabi & the critical last race. Webber can call it racing all he likes, but with Briatore in tow, he will only be known to me as being an associate with a Cheater. With already many Journalists questioning Webber's motives for driving like crazy against Vettel in Brazil, this statement doesn't put Webber in good light.


Briatore joins Montezemolo in criticising Schumacher
http://www.yallaf1.c...ing-schumacher/

Schumacher – driving for Mercedes – openly let his friend Sebastian Vettel overtake during the Interlagos finale.

Schumacher’s fellow German Vettel was fighting for the title against Ferrari’s Fernando Alonso, who ultimately lost the battle by 3 points. Italian Briatore, who was team boss when Schumacher won his first two titles with Benetton in the mid-90s, agrees with fellow Italian Montezemolo.

“The way [Schumacher] behaved in Brazil was not good. His preference was that Red Bull beats Ferrari,” said Briatore.

“The only one who helped Ferrari was Webber,” he added, referring to Vettel’s Red Bull teammate Mark Webber, who is in Briatore’s management stable.

Edited by BackOnTop, 07 December 2012 - 11:13.


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#2 BackOnTop

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:48

“The way [Schumacher] behaved in Brazil was not good. His preference was that Red Bull beats Ferrari,” said Briatore.

I guess by that he means Webber had the opposite preference, hence did a great job. :confused:

Edited by BackOnTop, 07 December 2012 - 11:15.


#3 F1ultimate

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:48

“The way [Schumacher] behaved in Brazil was not good. His preference was that Red Bull beats Ferrari,” said Briatore.


.....and Alonso stating in 2008 that he would help Massa win the title was great huh? Im sorry Briatore but you are in no position to talk morals. Your compass has since long been broken.

#4 LiJu914

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:53

.... this statement doesn't put Webber in good light.


No it doesn´t. Briatore is just describing the outcome of Webber´s driving, not his intentions - and even the outcome is just his personal p.o.v.

Unnecessary thread.


#5 The Kanisteri

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:02

Where they always find these whining criminals...Briatore should shut up and stay in place where sun never shine.

#6 BackOnTop

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:03

No it doesn´t. Briatore is just describing the outcome of Webber´s driving, not his intentions - and even the outcome is just his personal p.o.v.

Unnecessary thread.

I guess you still believe Singapore 2008 was no one's intentions... just his personal p.o.v. Not that there is anything fishy here... just awkward situation for Webber coming up, as Briatore is a his Manager.

In real life, only cheaters remain friends with other cheaters.... & I am not too sure why Alonso & Webber are still associated with this man.

It's not like Briatore is the only driver manager in the world to chose from??

Edited by BackOnTop, 07 December 2012 - 11:15.


#7 Anderis

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:15

Well, I had the impression that Webber actually forced Vettel to take the worse line to corner 1 in Brazil than it was necessary.

#8 LiJu914

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:20

I guess...


Considering you started a seperate thread for such a non-issue and your weird interpretations of it, it´s pretty much irrelevant for me, what you guess.


#9 tifosiMac

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:24

.....and Alonso stating in 2008 that he would help Massa win the title was great huh? Im sorry Briatore but you are in no position to talk morals. Your compass has since long been broken.

I was thinking the same thing. 'Flabio' had no issues with one of his drivers (Alonso) at the time publicly state he would move over for Massa to win the title against his ex team mate. This guy is entertaining but doesn't half talk some shite at times.

#10 BackOnTop

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:31

Considering you started a seperate thread for such a non-issue and your weird interpretations of it, it´s pretty much irrelevant for me, what you guess.

Cheer up... no need to get so worked up & agitated.

It's a normal forum.

#11 motorhead

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:32

Domenicali beware! Flavio is after your seat!

#12 undersquare

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:32

I thought Schumi was wrong too. Webber must really seriously dislike Sebi, I was surprised Horner let him get away with it; in Abu Dhabi too they had to pit him to get Sebi past. I think Webbo was quite lucky (or unlucky perhaps lol) it wasn't that close and he didn't end up costing Vettel the championship.

Anyway I have to agree with Flav and his big mouth this time.

Edited by MightyMoose, 07 December 2012 - 14:04.
Removed: but he's such an instinctive cheat it was always likely. <- Pointless baiting


#13 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:46

:rotfl: People take his comments seriously???

Did nobody see the documentary about when he was involved with QPR? (QPR: The Four Year Plan)

The guy believed he knew more about being a football manager than actual football managers and this little gem below. Then this little gem below, threatening to sell the club unless the fans who booed him reveal who they are :lol:

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#14 Rikhart

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:00

Well, I had the impression that Webber actually forced Vettel to take the worse line to corner 1 in Brazil than it was necessary.


Yes, he squeezed vettel, let both ferraris run rampant on the outside, and led to vettel going down the field and his collision. Nice team work there.

#15 H2H

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:57

Briatore is Briatore. He said already a lot of stupid things in the public but this actually is one which puts his driver in bad light. This is not what a manager is supposed to do.

Edited by H2H, 07 December 2012 - 14:29.


#16 george1981

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 14:09

Yes, he squeezed vettel, let both ferraris run rampant on the outside, and led to vettel going down the field and his collision. Nice team work there.


Had Massa done what Webber did to Vettel at the start he would have been labelled a bad sportsman/maybe even investigated had Vettel been taken out after his crash.

#17 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 14:25

Schumacher who?

Edited by SealTheDiffuser, 07 December 2012 - 14:29.


#18 Jon83

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 14:51

I was thinking the same thing. 'Flabio' had no issues with one of his drivers (Alonso) at the time publicly state he would move over for Massa to win the title against his ex team mate. This guy is entertaining but doesn't half talk some shite at times.


I never heard Alonso say exactly what you are claiming he did.

http://www.formula1....08/10/8538.html

Renault’s Fernando Alonso has admitted he would prefer Ferrari’s Felipe Massa or BMW Sauber’s Robert Kubica win the 2008 title, rather than his former McLaren team mate Lewis Hamilton.

Speaking in Thursday’s press conference at the Chinese Grand Prix, Alonso was asked to clarify comments attributed to him by Spanish media in which he suggested he would do all he could to help Massa’s title bid.

“First of all we need to have a competitive, hard car here in Shanghai and Brazil to be fighting with McLaren and Ferrari,” said Alonso, winner of the last two rounds in Singapore and Japan.

“If we do that and Felipe wins the race and I can be second or third I will be happy to help Felipe to take as many points as possible and this is the only approach."

When did he say he 'would move over'?

#19 Tsarwash

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 15:10

I quite liked what Schumacher did. Why would he have any support left for Ferrari after the way he was treated by them ? And why would Schumacher prefer Alonso over his friend Vettel ? You reap what you sow.

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#20 Taxi

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 15:42

Webber was totaly clumsy/useless in helping Vettel at Brazil. He forced vettel into a bad line, and after he was never a threat to Alonso to take him points.


He should learn with Massa: The Brazilian made and astonishing job all weekend defending and leading the way to his team mate. Pure class.




As for schumacher well he clearly open the door, and I won't blame him it was not his fight anymore. It was almost symbolic.

Edited by Taxi, 07 December 2012 - 15:42.


#21 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 17:30

I don't mind Briatore, not at all. But who cares what he says or thinks? He doesn't have much relevance in F1 today and this is only an attempt to get some media attention.

#22 Sardukar

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 17:58

Another day another Webber bashing thread. It must pain you guys so much that Webber has signed on for another year in the fastest car. Red Bull and webber have a great relationship, webber and vettel also have a healthy relationship (which is all that can be asked for after 2010). But please continue insinuating that Webber is a cheat, your tears are delicious.

#23 SUPRAF1

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 18:22

Personally I never understood how Webber would allow someone like Briatore to be his manager. I've always felt that their personalities were completely opposite.

#24 apoka

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 18:28

As for schumacher well he clearly open the door, and I won't blame him it was not his fight anymore. It was almost symbolic.

It should also be noted that Vettel was 1.5s faster than him and for Vettel the most important thing was just not to crash. Schumacher didn't fight, but that's somehow understandable. He wasn't fighting for a podium, he knew that Vettel was faster, it was his last race and Vettel is his friend. All hell would break lose in the German F1 world if Schumacher had actually crashed with Vettel in his last race costing Vettel the WDC and himself a worthy retirement.

On topic: Webber didn't help Vettel very much, but I hope that it was not intentional. I always keep thinking that next year is Webber's last year at RB, but he seems to have good support in the team (for instance from Mateschitz).


#25 Gag Bueno

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 18:35

Another day another Webber bashing thread.


I think it's more a Flabbio self-bashing thread :p

Edited by Gag Bueno, 07 December 2012 - 18:35.


#26 BillBald

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 18:55

Personally I never understood how Webber would allow someone like Briatore to be his manager. I've always felt that their personalities were completely opposite.


Briatore has always given him good advice on which team to join.



#27 BillBald

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 18:57

I think it's more a Flabbio self-bashing thread :p


Yes, people had stopped posting that picture of the man wearing speedos, he was missing the attention.




#28 RealRacing

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 18:58

Flavio should not be in F1 anymore. Part of me thinks he should also have served some time behind bars. How 2 of today's supposed top drivers are still letting him be their manager is beyond me.

Regarding the Webber thing, over here the TV commentators were appalled at his lack of support of SV, even to the point where they said his car should have been painted red. It's strange that this has not been debated here more. MW came out with some declarations afterwards, describing how the start, the re-start after the SC and others were situations where he was trying to do the best to help his teammate, but they somehow ended up not working well. IMO, the maneuver at the first corner looked as if he was fighting SV as much as possible, but it's difficult to tell without car telemetry. In any case, for the situation in the last races (not having a chance at the WDC anymore), it seemed to me that Webber was not especially trying to, or willing to, help his teammate.

#29 Rikhart

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 19:05

Flavio should not be in F1 anymore. Part of me thinks he should also have served some time behind bars. How 2 of today's supposed top drivers are still letting him be their manager is beyond me.

Regarding the Webber thing, over here the TV commentators were appalled at his lack of support of SV, even to the point where they said his car should have been painted red. It's strange that this has not been debated here more. MW came out with some declarations afterwards, describing how the start, the re-start after the SC and others were situations where he was trying to do the best to help his teammate, but they somehow ended up not working well. IMO, the maneuver at the first corner looked as if he was fighting SV as much as possible, but it's difficult to tell without car telemetry. In any case, for the situation in the last races (not having a chance at the WDC anymore), it seemed to me that Webber was not especially trying to, or willing to, help his teammate.


I would say quite the opposite was evident, really. I agree it should have been discussed more, I guess it wasnt because in the end it all turned out ok for vettel...

#30 prty

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 19:11

.....and Alonso stating in 2008 that he would help Massa win the title was great huh?


He said that... he did that? :)

#31 Kelateboy

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 19:12

Another day another Webber bashing thread. It must pain you guys so much that Webber has signed on for another year in the fastest car. Red Bull and webber have a great relationship, webber and vettel also have a healthy relationship (which is all that can be asked for after 2010). But please continue insinuating that Webber is a cheat, your tears are delicious.

Nobody said Webber is a cheat, just not a very good team player.

#32 kpchelsea

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 20:14

Well, I had the impression that Webber actually forced Vettel to take the worse line to corner 1 in Brazil than it was necessary.

Yes i was surprised how hard Webber made it for him

#33 fabr68

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 20:29

Nobody said Webber is a cheat, just not a very good team player.


Well Massa has been taking some serious heat for being a good team player. Cant blame Webber for not wanting such criticizm.

#34 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 20:44

Nobody said Webber is a cheat, just not a very good team player.


Really? I remember Mark saying before the race his focus was on his own race, not necessarily helping anyone. However I remember when he let Seb by, the team thanking him very much for moving over. I remember Silverstone where Mark was told to hold position and not try to overtake Seb, and he didn't. That's being a good team player in my book. Not sure what some of you all expect from him.

#35 rolf123

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 23:27

Flavio is a great guy, I have a lot of respect for him. F1 needs such soulful characters like him and not droids like Christian Horner.

And he's right. I don't think he's saying Webber went out of his way to help Ferrari but he did his job by racing tough and not giving way like Schumacher did. I used to love Schumacher but he is on my hate list since his most unprofessional tactics he did at the Brazilian Grand Prix. I was totally shocked by what he did. If anything, he should have made a token effort , if for no other reason than to show his Ferrari credentials.

That day, he tarnished and already tarnished record. I thought it was pretty pathetic the way he was trying to get camera time with Vettel after the race too.

#36 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 02:37

He should learn with Massa: The Brazilian made and astonishing job all weekend defending and leading the way to his team mate. Pure class.


Pure #2

#37 ScuderiaSV1

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 02:51

Flavio is a great guy, I have a lot of respect for him. F1 needs such soulful characters like him and not droids like Christian Horner.

And he's right. I don't think he's saying Webber went out of his way to help Ferrari but he did his job by racing tough and not giving way like Schumacher did. I used to love Schumacher but he is on my hate list since his most unprofessional tactics he did at the Brazilian Grand Prix. I was totally shocked by what he did. If anything, he should have made a token effort , if for no other reason than to show his Ferrari credentials.

That day, he tarnished and already tarnished record. I thought it was pretty pathetic the way he was trying to get camera time with Vettel after the race too.


How can anyone who ordered a pilot to purposefully crash for his own prodigal son to win a race be labelled as a "good" guy? :confused:

Call it whatever you'd like. I personally thought It was great to see the maestro pass the baton to his younger German counterpart on his way to setting another record in the sport Michael once dominated.

#38 santababy

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 03:16

But who cares what he says or thinks? He doesn't have much relevance in F1 today and this is only an attempt to get some media attention.


This!

#39 BackOnTop

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 04:14

I don't mind Briatore, not at all. But who cares what he says or thinks? He doesn't have much relevance in F1 today and this is only an attempt to get some media attention.

That is a completely wrong statement and assumption to make. Flavio Briatore is currently 'associated' with the following personalities and entities in Formula 1:-

-Fernando Alonso- 2* World Champion; Mentor, Friend & Management.
-Scuderia Ferrari- Direct links due to Alonso, as well as 'rumoured' behind the scenes association.
-Mark Webber- Driver for 3* Constructors winning RedBull; Friend & Management.
-RedBull Racing- Direct links due to Webber.

So how is being associated with a double world champion, Ferrari, Mark Webber & RedBull doesn't have much relevance in F1 Today. He's a cheat, so it's not that difficult to realize that he can spin his way into companies slyly, without you knowing it.

Edited by BackOnTop, 08 December 2012 - 04:16.


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#40 Claudius

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 05:01

Sure, blame MS for Ferrari failing to win...
What was MS suppose to do with a car that was significantly slower?
And besides, Vettel already had what he needed (7th place), it's not as if Michael handed the Wdc to him.



#41 SpaMaster

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 05:32

The question is why should we hear this guy talk? Why give any importance to the non-sense and no information he has to mutter? I don't think this is news worthy at all. We are giving it unnecessary attention by opening a thread for non-information like this. Best way to treat this guy is post his utterances in some already existing threads, if at all. Nothing against you BackonTop, it's just about the guy!

#42 sailor

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 08:15

Really? I remember Mark saying before the race his focus was on his own race, not necessarily helping anyone. However I remember when he let Seb by, the team thanking him very much for moving over. I remember Silverstone where Mark was told to hold position and not try to overtake Seb, and he didn't. That's being a good team player in my book. Not sure what some of you all expect from him.


Learn from Massa the various lil tricks he pulls to help his teammate

#43 jjcale

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 08:32

I said the same in a thread before the last race .... LH and MW were defending very weaky against FA for the last third of the season.... it was pretty obvious to anyone who took their "they would never do such a thing ... they are professionals" blinders off.


#44 goldenboy

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 09:11

I said the same in a thread before the last race .... LH and MW were defending very weaky against FA for the last third of the season.... it was pretty obvious to anyone who took their "they would never do such a thing ... they are professionals" blinders off.

:lol: seriously?

#45 jjcale

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 09:48

What I dont understand is why people are surprised and outraged that 1) Briatore remains influential as a driver manager and otherwise behind the scenes... and that an "upstanding guy" like MW would be managed by him 2) MS let SV past in the last race.

Why do you guys think F1 is some kind of super professional, utra ethical zone... when a) its run by a guy under investigation for bribery, b) its owned by private equity funds, c) most of the teams have at least one owner who is ...shall we say, questionable, in some way. d) Every year leading teams are caught cheating in one way or another. e) the specialist press is bought and paid for with access and other perks and behave like PR for the teams and "sport" in general - when is the last time one of them did any kind of investigation into the stuff that's wrong in F1... these guys call cheating "looking for loopholes" and "rule bending" FFS. g) the ruling body often actively intervenes in the championships via rulings and mid season technical "clarifications". etc etc

What would it take to get some of you guys to take the blinders off and stop putting these guys on a pedastal?

In this context, am I not entitled to my opinion after two and a half decades of watching that LH and MW did not defend against FA to 100% of their abilities in the last third of the season.... if you dont think that happened, you are entitled to your opinion but dont be behaving like "oh my god - that would never happen - they are professionals and "racers"".

#46 Rasputin

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 09:52

We should be careful here, it might be Mercedes' next Team Principal who speaks out.

#47 Cult

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 10:18

What I dont understand is why people are surprised and outraged that 1) Briatore remains influential as a driver manager and otherwise behind the scenes... and that an "upstanding guy" like MW would be managed by him 2) MS let SV past in the last race.

Why do you guys think F1 is some kind of super professional, utra ethical zone... when a) its run by a guy under investigation for bribery, b) its owned by private equity funds, c) most of the teams have at least one owner who is ...shall we say, questionable, in some way. d) Every year leading teams are caught cheating in one way or another. e) the specialist press is bought and paid for with access and other perks and behave like PR for the teams and "sport" in general - when is the last time one of them did any kind of investigation into the stuff that's wrong in F1... these guys call cheating "looking for loopholes" and "rule bending" FFS. g) the ruling body often actively intervenes in the championships via rulings and mid season technical "clarifications". etc etc

What would it take to get some of you guys to take the blinders off and stop putting these guys on a pedastal?

In this context, am I not entitled to my opinion after two and a half decades of watching that LH and MW did not defend against FA to 100% of their abilities in the last third of the season.... if you dont think that happened, you are entitled to your opinion but dont be behaving like "oh my god - that would never happen - they are professionals and "racers"".


Let's take Hamilton:-

Singapore - winning
Japan - no opportunity to defend against Alonso, race cut short
Korea - Alonso outdragged Hamilton down the straight along with the Lotus and Massa. Not sure how he could have defended better than that without targeting Alonso and crowding him which is illegal.
India - unbelievable stuff at the beginning between the two and Jenson. Surely that wasn't not defending to 100% of your abilities.
Abu Dhabi - no opportunity to defend, too far up the field
US - no opportunity to defend, too far up the field
Brazil - no opportunity to defend, winning for large parts

As for Webber you might have slightly more of a point as there's absolutely none for Hamilton. 2 overtakes, both right at the start when the Ferrari had far more drag on both occasions (down the straight).

#48 SpaMaster

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:44

What I dont understand is why people are surprised and outraged that 1) Briatore remains influential as a driver manager and otherwise behind the scenes... and that an "upstanding guy" like MW would be managed by him 2) MS let SV past in the last race.

Why do you guys think F1 is some kind of super professional, utra ethical zone... when a) its run by a guy under investigation for bribery, b) its owned by private equity funds, c) most of the teams have at least one owner who is ...shall we say, questionable, in some way. d) Every year leading teams are caught cheating in one way or another. e) the specialist press is bought and paid for with access and other perks and behave like PR for the teams and "sport" in general - when is the last time one of them did any kind of investigation into the stuff that's wrong in F1... these guys call cheating "looking for loopholes" and "rule bending" FFS. g) the ruling body often actively intervenes in the championships via rulings and mid season technical "clarifications". etc etc

What would it take to get some of you guys to take the blinders off and stop putting these guys on a pedastal?

In this context, am I not entitled to my opinion after two and a half decades of watching that LH and MW did not defend against FA to 100% of their abilities in the last third of the season.... if you dont think that happened, you are entitled to your opinion but dont be behaving like "oh my god - that would never happen - they are professionals and "racers"".

Spot on.

#49 goldenboy

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:52

sure, but sorry I just don't buy that ham and web gave up places to alonso on purpose.

#50 BackOnTop

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 12:43

If Briatore is p!ssed with Schumi, I wonder how much Kimi Raikkonen would have annoyed this fat bastard this season :D

- Japan: Alonso's fault.... but this fatty wouldn't care for reality in any case.
- Abu Dhabi: 'how the hell can he win over my protege... so unfair'- 7 points taken.
- Brazil GP: First lap super-duper avoidance, even at the cost of giving up his own race.

Alonso was champion if the 4th corner was an "Inch" shorter. Too bad, but highly enjoyable for me. Not because Alonso lost.... as whoever won would definitely be worth it; .....but because seeing people like Luca, Briatore & the Spanish media grovelling has made the 2012 season most enjoyable ever.... after 2007 of course.

PS- Remembering back to 2001 when Sauber said Briatore was hell bent on not giving Kimi Raikkonen a super-licence, and playing politics around a promising career, this man is a real gutter, and any chance to see him go crazy is worth it.