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Austrian Grand Prix to return to calendar in 2014 [Merged]


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#201 scheivlak

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 19:22

I'm still a bit sad, however, that this proposed extension, using parts of the old circuit, was not built when Red Bull acquired the circuit:

Posted Image

Reminds me of the Bahrain track extension. The word 'tumour' comes to mind.

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#202 johnmhinds

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 19:40

Man that must have been spooky! I love the old sponsor barriers like John Player, Martini, Campari, Agip... :love: :love:! Considering how simple it's layout is, I always found the A1 Ring picturesque, however the massive tarmac runoffs have somewhat ruined it, more so than they have ruined other older tracks. Look how pretty the little Nurburgring in a similar setting is still, because it's retained so much grass and gravel!


This Nurburgring?

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#203 bourbon

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 19:45

I do not think so. If there was an Austrian driver winning for them instead of Vettel, it would be a different story. I think they admire Jochen Rindt, Niki Lauda or Gerhard Berger more. Many times you can see F1 on TV in restaurants and pubs...


The question was about Red Bull, not its drivers, who are German and Australian - and maybe a Fin by next year. You have to give the people a chance. Will they support an Austrian team over time? Why not? But you can't ask for Tifosi like support in year 1 - that would be koo-koo.

Assuming RBR sticks around, over time, the countrymen would support their team.

#204 mattferg

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 20:01

Umm....


Valencia is still on the calender, it's got a race-swap deal like Hockenheim.

#205 Fastcake

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 20:22

The question was about Red Bull, not its drivers, who are German and Australian - and maybe a Fin by next year. You have to give the people a chance. Will they support an Austrian team over time? Why not? But you can't ask for Tifosi like support in year 1 - that would be koo-koo.

Assuming RBR sticks around, over time, the countrymen would support their team.


Why would they? Red Bull has an Austrian owner and licence, but otherwise has little to do with the country. It doesn't even make some pretence of being Austrian, unlike Force India and their "home" country, and it's certainly not like Ferrari, which is as Italian as it gets. Do the Austrian's really want to support the latest incarnation of a British organisation founded by Jackie Stewart's son?

Valencia is still on the calender, it's got a race-swap deal like Hockenheim.


You've made me pause now, but I am almost certain Valencia is now gone for good.

Edited by Fastcake, 24 July 2013 - 20:23.


#206 Der Pate

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 20:31

After every Red-Bull-win they play the Austrian national anthem. Therefore this team is as well Austrian as it can get. Austrians have a great history of drivers. More than Germany...

After what I´ve heard since the announcement yesterday, there will be a huge audience and much more during the race-weekend, when I only think about the "Air Power" over the last few years!

#207 Fastcake

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 21:32

After every Red-Bull-win they play the Austrian national anthem. Therefore this team is as well Austrian as it can get. Austrians have a great history of drivers. More than Germany...

After what I´ve heard since the announcement yesterday, there will be a huge audience and much more during the race-weekend, when I only think about the "Air Power" over the last few years!


Being subjected to the Austrian anthem on the podium doesn't make the team Austrian.* Actually being based in the country, with primarily Austrian personnel, would make it Austrian. It's just a British team whose owner changed the nationality on the paperwork.

*No offence if you're Austrian, but I have no love for the anthem. Especially when we get the double dirge every time Vettel wins.

#208 hogstar

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 21:38

Austrian news inform about no license for 2014, problems with farmers and about a limitation to 40.000 spectators per year
http://sport.orf.at/...189139/2189138/

Posted Image




It's looks lovely, but it's a shame they didn't do the job properly. It just looks like half a track.

#209 Zava

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 21:47

Never saw this proposed extension before! Would have been great!

When I drove at the A1-Ring myself (must be 1999 or 2000) the old circuit was still there. I drove there, and it was a strange mood with the old advertising-banners. I was at the Red-Bull-Ring last summer, and the track is one of the most pitoresque and beautiful race-tracks I know. But I still don´t know, if the old track is still there. As far as I know, it was demolished with the A1-Ring, when Red Bull took over. Is there anyone, who knows more?

when we went to the opening 'ceremony' in 2011, we parked the bus on the old track, right after T1. I think. :cat: we saw an old armco near the hillside, so it is probable.

edit: and as you can see on the left of the photo quoted in the previous post, the track is still there

Edited by Zava, 24 July 2013 - 21:49.


#210 Frank Tuesday

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 23:39

But I still don´t know, if the old track is still there.


Not all of it is, but the section from current T1 to T2 still shows up in aerial shots.

Posted Image


#211 jstrains

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 06:51

The question was about Red Bull, not its drivers, who are German and Australian - and maybe a Fin by next year. You have to give the people a chance. Will they support an Austrian team over time? Why not? But you can't ask for Tifosi like support in year 1 - that would be koo-koo.

Assuming RBR sticks around, over time, the countrymen would support their team.


Well they can definitely root for their skiers and ski-jumpers during winter events...


#212 Jovanotti

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 07:57

I agree the proposed extension looks horrendous. Something like this would be much better (without the chicane in T1 of course :) ) the track is there and would only require a few new run-off areas.

Posted Image

Regardless, I'll be overjoyed when F1 returns to this beautiful venue :up: Simple, fast and good overtaking opportunities.

Edited by Jovanotti, 25 July 2013 - 07:57.


#213 Der Pate

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 08:13

Being subjected to the Austrian anthem on the podium doesn't make the team Austrian.* Actually being based in the country, with primarily Austrian personnel, would make it Austrian. It's just a British team whose owner changed the nationality on the paperwork.

*No offence if you're Austrian, but I have no love for the anthem. Especially when we get the double dirge every time Vettel wins.


I cannot understand, what problem you have with the Austrian national anthem, but never mind...

The question is, who is the owner of the team and of course pays. And that is clearly an Austrian. I can remember years (end of 90s beginning of the 2000s) when there were more british employees at the Ferrari-team than Italian. But I cannot recall one single F1-fan, who would have said, that Ferrari is a british team.

To understand the patriotism of Austrians, you have to imagine, that Austria is a very small country, often overshadowed by Germany and the rest of Europe. Some Austrians often shout out, when there is a Red Bull can visible in a movie.

Let´s not discuss, which real nationality which team has!

It's looks lovely, but it's a shame they didn't do the job properly. It just looks like half a track.


This view doesn´t show the real topography. With hills and wood you cannot create another layout. And the problem with the Österreichring-layout is, that there are no run-off-areas. In the 80s the Österreichring always competed against Silverstone to be the fastest track in F1. So you can imagine, what it would take today for safety-reasons...

Not all of it is, but the section from current T1 to T2 still shows up in aerial shots.

Posted Image


As far as I know everything on the left side of the track (from T1 to T2) is an armco only 3 to 5 metres from the track and behind that nothing. It goes down the hill...

#214 PayasYouRace

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 08:30

You only have to look at the video posted earlier in the thread to see that runoff on the old section would be a difficult proposition.

How it used to be (1987).


How about onboard:


In '87, the lap record had an average speed of 257km/h (~160mph). In 2003, the lap record on the new track was only 228km/h (140mph). I bet the 2003 car on the old ('87) track would have been pushing 280km/h (175mph) average.



#215 Shiroo

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 08:44

I agree the proposed extension looks horrendous. Something like this would be much better (without the chicane in T1 of course :) ) the track is there and would only require a few new run-off areas.

Posted Image

Regardless, I'll be overjoyed when F1 returns to this beautiful venue :up: Simple, fast and good overtaking opportunities.

wouldn't it be new Monza then?

#216 Jovanotti

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 08:49

wouldn't it be new Monza then?

Don't think so - faster corners (imagine T2 with todays cars) and better flow.

#217 Lotus53B

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:25

Don't think so - faster corners (imagine T2 with todays cars) and better flow.

And elevation changes

#218 jstrains

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:39

There is a picture by a Austrian Newspaper KURIER going around Austrian internet today saying:

1. F1 we are a part of it...
2. ...if it not very dangerous
3. ...and quiet
4. ...ecofriendly
5. ...and cheap
6. ...and Styrialike

© Kurier ‪#‎F1‬ ‪#‎spielberg‬ ‪#‎ecclestone‬ ‪#‎marteschitz‬ ‪#‎redbull‬ ‪#‎epicfail‬

There is an interview with Didi M. on this matter in the same newspaper including an online poll
http://kurier.at/spo...smus/20.385.2657

Posted Image

Edited by jstrains, 25 July 2013 - 09:47.


#219 johnmhinds

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:56

I agree the proposed extension looks horrendous. Something like this would be much better (without the chicane in T1 of course :) ) the track is there and would only require a few new run-off areas.

Posted Image

Regardless, I'll be overjoyed when F1 returns to this beautiful venue :up: Simple, fast and good overtaking opportunities.


The village you can see on the bottom left of the image is the reason the track was cut short. They aren't going to allow the track to be changed back.

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#220 DampMongoose

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 10:02

I'm glad there's going to be another European race even if it does have to be here... I just wish that when they butchered the track they had retained the sweeping nature of the turns at Bosch Texaco and Rindt (obviously they would need some runoff rather than armco 1 yard from the track) so the circuit had some flavour of the real Osterreichring.

Now all we need are a few more European circuits to replace the deserts and we can have a decent 16 race calendar back!

#221 wingwalker

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 10:54

This track has potential to have some of the best grandstands on the entire calendar.

#222 Der Pate

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 10:56

The online poll says, that there are over 77% who are happy, that F1 returns to Austria !!!

#223 Jovanotti

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 12:45

The village you can see on the bottom left of the image is the reason the track was cut short. They aren't going to allow the track to be changed back.

Okay thx, didn't know that...seems unlikely then. Will still be a great track though.

#224 August

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 15:46

Good to get one more race in Europe. RB Ring isn't my favourite track but at least it's different to most other tracks.

Good news; the layout is simple but each and every corner is a challenge to get right, the result being something which is unlike anything else on the calendar at present.

I'm still a bit sad, however, that this proposed extension, using parts of the old circuit, was not built when Red Bull acquired the circuit:

Posted Image


That would've been great without the Mickey Mouse section at Remus.

Edited by August, 25 July 2013 - 15:50.


#225 PayasYouRace

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 16:33

Austrian news inform about no license for 2014, problems with farmers and about a limitation to 40.000 spectators per year
http://sport.orf.at/...189139/2189138/

Posted Image


Forix has an interesting photo of the original circuit from a similar view. Makes an interesting comparison.

http://forix.autospo...&...amp;p=0&o=1

#226 bourbon

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 03:19

Good to get one more race in Europe. RB Ring isn't my favourite track but at least it's different to most other tracks.



That would've been great without the Mickey Mouse section at Remus.


Que dices? I like the "Micky Mouse" section...

#227 Kobasmashi

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 09:26

This Nurburgring?

Posted Image


Oh come on, the new complex is grotty but the back end of the track is lovely!

#228 Murdoch

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:09

The question is, who is the owner of the team and of course pays. And that is clearly an Austrian. I can remember years (end of 90s beginning of the 2000s) when there were more british employees at the Ferrari-team than Italian. But I cannot recall one single F1-fan, who would have said, that Ferrari is a british team.


Maybe because they didn't relocate to Britain?

Although to be fair Mercedes are classed as German (but are based in britain), Toyota were Japanese (but based in Germany), BMW german but based in Switzerland...

Edited by Murdoch, 26 July 2013 - 12:18.


#229 BoschKurve

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 13:48

Forix has an interesting photo of the original circuit from a similar view. Makes an interesting comparison.

http://forix.autospo...&...amp;p=0&o=1


You have to login to view the Forix image.

Any way you can host it on say Photobucket and share it?

#230 PayasYouRace

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 13:54

You have to login to view the Forix image.

Any way you can host it on say Photobucket and share it?


I'm not sure if it would be OK by the forum rules to do that.

Anyway I found the same photo on a google search http://bandverde.fil...erreichring.jpg

#231 BoschKurve

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 13:56

I'm not sure if it would be OK by the forum rules to do that.

Anyway I found the same photo on a google search http://bandverde.fil...erreichring.jpg


Posted Image


Thanks!

Beautiful circuit from up above.

#232 swerved

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 15:11

Fernando doesn't seem all that keen.

http://grandprix247....-claims-alonso/

Wonder why ?.



#233 Afterburner

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 16:40

Posted Image


Thanks!

Beautiful circuit from up above.

Judging from this picture, I'm not quite certain what's so terribly different about this layout and the current one? Obviously it's shorter and doesn't go around the outside of the hill, but is that really such a huge loss?

Perhaps I'm missing something.

#234 Victor_RO

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 16:44

Judging from this picture, I'm not quite certain what's so terribly different about this layout and the current one? Obviously it's shorter and doesn't go around the outside of the hill, but is that really such a huge loss?

Perhaps I'm missing something.


Instead of tight and slow corners at the end of straights that were taken at 80kph, it used to have fast corners that were taken at ludicrous speeds and an average lap speed on the order of 250-255 kph (similar level to Monza and pre-1991 Silverstone).

#235 Afterburner

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 16:53

Instead of tight and slow corners at the end of straights that were taken at 80kph, it used to have fast corners that were taken at ludicrous speeds and an average lap speed on the order of 250-255 kph (similar level to Monza and pre-1991 Silverstone).

Ah, got it. I can see that the infield section on the new track is tighter as well. For some reason I think dirty air problems would prevent the classic layout from being very exciting, these days. :p

#236 BoschKurve

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 16:57

Instead of tight and slow corners at the end of straights that were taken at 80kph, it used to have fast corners that were taken at ludicrous speeds and an average lap speed on the order of 250-255 kph (similar level to Monza and pre-1991 Silverstone).


This.

"At Zeltweg, down the long straight to the Bosch Kurve, the car was throwing out 1400 bhp and just kept on pushing - you felt like you were sitting on a rocket." -Gerhard Berger on the Benetton B186

The old Osterreichring was not for the faint of heart.

The average lap speed was already 120MPH in 1971.

#237 beute

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 17:35

I cannot understand, what problem you have with the Austrian national anthem, but never mind...


off topic, but really?
It's almost unbearable to listen to, ESPECIALLY the text-less version we get in Formula 1.

people hate on vettel, red bull, some on webber, some on the authority figures in the team, but to me the anthem is the only thing that makes me wanna turn off the TV right before the podium celebrations.
It's not only boring and slow, but every time I see it in F1 it seems like the anthem just wont end...

#238 Garagiste

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 17:36

That and the big-dipper elevation changes, watched the highlights from 1982 the other night and it was breathtakingly gorgeous.
And horrifically dangerous.
There you go. :well:

#239 Obi Offiah

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 17:53

Ah, got it. I can see that the infield section on the new track is tighter as well. For some reason I think dirty air problems would prevent the classic layout from being very exciting, these days. :p

DRS can help alleviate some of that.

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#240 scheivlak

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 18:02

The average lap speed was already 120MPH in 1971.

Pole position was 218.3 kph (more than 130 mph), average speed of the race winner 211.8 kph, so even higher :)

#241 BoschKurve

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 18:12

Pole position was 218.3 kph (more than 130 mph), average speed of the race winner 211.8 kph, so even higher :)


An absolutely fitting final F1 victory for Jo Siffert in the BRM.

I'm still in awe of those types of lap speeds for that time period when one factors in where they were at technically. Good old ply bias tires. :D

#242 Der Pate

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 10:41

Last year I was at the ADAC GT Masters at the Red Bull Ring and took some pictures, how it looks like now!

http://instagram.com/p/ctWmvKJJc2/

http://instagram.com/p/ctWwxlpJdA/

http://instagram.com/p/ctW7FKJJdJ/

http://instagram.com/p/ctXEXdpJdS/

http://instagram.com/p/ctXSYKpJdi/

#243 Jovanotti

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 10:50

Last year I was at the ADAC GT Masters at the Red Bull Ring and took some pictures, how it looks like now!

http://instagram.com/p/ctWmvKJJc2/

http://instagram.com/p/ctWwxlpJdA/

http://instagram.com/p/ctW7FKJJdJ/

http://instagram.com/p/ctXEXdpJdS/

http://instagram.com/p/ctXSYKpJdi/

Two words: Gay Hiking  ;)

But thanks for the pics!

#244 dau

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 16:18

The tickets for the 2014 Austrian GP have sold out in 48h. They don't have much capacity, but that's still pretty impressive. People missing out can only wait for ticket cancellations at the moment, but the organisers have requested to increase capacity to 80,000 per day for qualifying and race.

 

http://motorsportsta...ut-in-48-hours/


Edited by dau, 03 December 2013 - 16:32.


#245 f1RacingForever

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 02:59

Sounds good but i don't like the idea of using government funding. Government funding should not be used to host private events. If they can make it happen with private money, then by all means, go ahead.



#246 bourbon

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 03:09

Why would they? Red Bull has an Austrian owner and licence, but otherwise has little to do with the country. It doesn't even make some pretence of being Austrian, unlike Force India and their "home" country, and it's certainly not like Ferrari, which is as Italian as it gets. Do the Austrian's really want to support the latest incarnation of a British organisation founded by Jackie Stewart's son?

 

Do the British?

 

Since the Austrian anthem is played, I'd bed on the Austrians to adopt them right up as the home team.  :yawnface:



#247 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:49

Fernando doesn't seem all that keen.

http://grandprix247....-claims-alonso/

Wonder why ?.

 

It says why in the article ... 



#248 PayasYouRace

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 12:06

The tickets for the 2014 Austrian GP have sold out in 48h. They don't have much capacity, but that's still pretty impressive. People missing out can only wait for ticket cancellations at the moment, but the organisers have requested to increase capacity to 80,000 per day for qualifying and race.

 

http://motorsportsta...ut-in-48-hours/

 

Wow. That's a good sign.



#249 tomisumi

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 12:27

I think more General Admission tickets will be available... (hope so, cause want to go there too!)



#250 DS27

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 13:35

Why would they? Red Bull has an Austrian owner and licence, but otherwise has little to do with the country. It doesn't even make some pretence of being Austrian, unlike Force India and their "home" country, and it's certainly not like Ferrari, which is as Italian as it gets. Do the Austrian's really want to support the latest incarnation of a British organisation founded by Jackie Stewart's son?


You've made me pause now, but I am almost certain Valencia is now gone for good.

 

 

We had our hols in Austria and our taxi took us past the Red Bull corporate offices. The cab driver and other Austrians we spoke to were very pro-Red Bull