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Did Alonso "Choke" In The 2012 World Championship?


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#1 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 18:21

There was some discussion on pages 5 and 6 in the 'Top 10 of 2012' thread that Alonso 'choked' in the Championship "run-in", mainly from Japan onwards.

I'm hoping to have a non-inflamitory, well-balanced discussion. No opinion is either "right" or "wrong" and i'll go first:

Alonso was odds-on favourite to win the WDC at the Summer break. Looking at all the bookies odds at the Summer break, one could see him as clear favourite with Vettel as low as 4th (possibly because McLarens were in the ascendency?)

Nando had a 40+ point lead.

The Ferrari had bullet-proof reliability (unlike Vettel's RBR-Renault with it's alternator failures at Valencia and Monza) and the Scuderia did their best to make sure Nando didn't get any grid penalties (unlike,say, Vettel's 22-spot penalty at Abu Dhabi....and Hamilton's 23-spot grid penalty earlier in Spain).

In fact, Ferrari actually penalized Massa 5 spots deliberately when they manipulated grid positions at Austin to give Nando the clean side and move him up an extra spot closer to Vettel.

The Ferrari pitstops were the best over-all whereas McLarens and Red Bulls floundered from time to time, even as late as Interlagos for Vettel.

But it started to really unravel in Belgium (not Alonso's fault) and then in Japan - where Massa took 2nd for Ferrari. At Suzuka, Alonso was his own downfall. His tangle with Kimi when he moved over on the Finn was his own doing. His DNF in Japan can't be blamed on anyone else but himself.

Further, in the Championship "run in" Nando quite clearly under-qualified the Ferrari. In 3 of the last 5 races, Alonso was slower than Massa..and, so, Ferrari had to subjugate Massa and asked Massa to drive to less than their car's capacity so Nando's points haul could be maximized. These 3 races were Korea, Austin and Interlagos.

Ferrari and Massa did everything to boost a waning Alonso.

In comparison, Vettel had to over-come a 22-spot grid penalty and Webber, basically, "squeezing' him unnessessarily ... this after Webber said he'd drive "flat out" for himself as late as round 18.

Alonso choked inspite of everything being handed to him on a silver plate by Ferrari and Massa.

I don't think Alonso gave it everything whereas Vettel gave it everything inspite of the odds, Renault and Webber stacked against him.


Thoughts?

Edited by RayInTorontoCanada, 10 December 2012 - 18:27.


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#2 Rikhart

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 18:31

Well imo massa getting the upper hand on last two races, both qualy and race wise, was quite telling.

#3 Disgrace

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 18:33

Nein.

#4 garoidb

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 18:34

There was some discussion on pages 5 and 6 in the 'Top 10 of 2012' thread that Alonso 'choked' in the Championship "run-in", mainly from Japan onwards.

I'm hoping to have a non-inflamitory, well-balanced discussion. No opinion is either "right" or "wrong" and i'll go first:

Alonso was odds-on favourite to win the WDC at the Summer break. Looking at all the bookies odds at the Summer break, one could see him as clear favourite with Vettel as low as 4th (possibly because McLarens were in the ascendency?)

Nando had a 40+ point lead.

The Ferrari had bullet-proof reliability (unlike Vettel's RBR-Renault with it's alternator failures at Valencia and Monza) and the Scuderia did their best to make sure Nando didn't get any grid penalties (unlike,say, Vettel's 22-spot penalty at Abu Dhabi....and Hamilton's 23-spot grid penalty earlier in Spain).

In fact, Ferrari actually penalized Massa 5 spots deliberately when they manipulated grid positions at Austin to give Nando the clean side and move him up an extra spot closer to Vettel.

The Ferrari pitstops were the best over-all whereas McLarens and Red Bulls floundered from time to time, even as late as Interlagos for Vettel.

But it started to really unravel in Belgium (not Alonso's fault) and then in Japan - where Massa took 2nd for Ferrari. At Suzuka, Alonso was his own downfall. His tangle with Kimi when he moved over on the Finn was his own doing. His DNF in Japan can't be blamed on anyone else but himself.

Further, in the Championship "run in" Nando quite clearly under-qualified the Ferrari. In 3 of the last 5 races, Alonso was slower than Massa..and, so, Ferrari had to subjugate Massa and asked Massa to drive to less than their car's capacity so Nando's points haul could be maximized. These 3 races were Korea, Austin and Interlagos.

Ferrari and Massa did everything to boost a waning Alonso.

In comparison, Vettel had to over-come a 22-spot grid penalty and Webber, basically, "squeezing' him unnessessarily ... this after Webber said he'd drive "flat out" for himself as late as round 18.

Alonso choked inspite of everything being handed to him on a silver plate by Ferrari and Massa.

I don't think Alonso gave it everything whereas Vettel gave it everything inspite of the odds, Renault and Webber stacked against him.


Thoughts?


Without Alonso (note that I do not say Ferrari), this would be considered another season of Vettel dominance. Kimi in third place is 74 points (nearly three race wins) behind Vettel.

Edited by garoidb, 10 December 2012 - 18:35.


#5 fullthrottle

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 18:35

Nein.


That was annoying... you should've put some warning signs :p

#6 antifozy

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 18:36

Did Alonso choke? Define choke? If you consider Ferrari the best car, he did choke. If not then, I think he drove the best he could, he did outperform Vettel in all the last three races. If I were an Alonso fan, I would have been proud of him. In my opinion, everyone is allowed to be human. He did make a mistake in Japan, and he also was conservative in his approach to racing after that, lest he crash out again and ruin his chances all together, an approach I support. Driving all out does sound glamorous, but doesn't always work (example of Kimi Germany 2005). Yes Massa was racing for him later on, but early on Massa did nothing to take any points off his rivals, kind of like Webber did with Vettel, so that argument goes both ways.



#7 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 18:45

Did Alonso choke? Define choke? If you consider Ferrari the best car, he did choke. If not then, I think he drove the best he could...


Define best car and define best team.

The McLaren was 'The Fastest' car in 2012. Button, who was useless mid-season, even won 3 Grands Prix in it.

The Ferrari team was united in the last fly-aways, it had a solid, fast race car at that time...and Massa was in line for podium after podium, proving it was a solid, fast racing car.

Where was Webber in the final fly-aways? Webber's not useless. He was close in qually to Vettel in 2012 and won Monaco for the 2nd time on merit. You don't win Monaco twice on merit if you're useless. So, given that Webber wasn't scoring well with the RBR later, to me suggests that Vettel was driving the revisions like a Demon in full attack mode. It also means that the RBR was no more superior - or not as superior as the McLaren - to the Ferrari in race trim by then.

Alonso was not performing to Massa's level when the car was a solidly a podium car. That's where I think the choking comes from.

Edited by RayInTorontoCanada, 10 December 2012 - 18:46.


#8 P123

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 18:47

Doubt it. His quali wasn't great, but his races were strong. Massa was getting faster as the season progressed, and he is a bit of an Interlagos specialist. If he was going to be faster than Alonso anywhere this season then it was going to be at Interlagos.

#9 jk

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 18:48

For me a choke implies that the championship would have been won with only decent performances. And that was not the case with this point system.

But on the other hand i do not subscribe to the notion that Alonso was perfect every lap and to finish where he did was the maximum outcome. He certainly had great drives like Valencia but also had weekends where he could have done more. For example he should not have lost to Maldonado at Spain.

Alonso had the chance but did not have great performances at the end of the season. Vettel did at Abu Dhabi and Brazil. But not delivering those mega drives is not the same as choking. Alonso did decent when decent was not enough. That is not a choke.

#10 eronrules

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 18:49

i'm gonna stick my head out and say this, he did choke a bit in 2007 and again in 2010, but that was a minor 'loss of focus' or say 'overdriving' on his part due to various reasons. but this year, he's been perfect, maintaining his focus and determination while providing us with classic samurai quotes. TBH, i'm yet to see a more steadfast driver like the kind he showed this year . i'm a biased kimi fan, but even he was overshadowed by alonso.


P.S assuming by choking you mean pressure getting to him and making mistakes, which i don't recall him making this year.

#11 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 18:52

The F2012 was born dead, Alonso dragged it by its neck in the 4 opening rounds. After Mugello the pace of F2012 improved dramatically and was for some time the best car (in wet conditions) and that continued till the summer break.

Then after the summer break RBR outdevelopped the whole field but with alternator issues, Alonso DNFs twice and the F2012 still lacked the Quali pace. In the last 6 GPs Alonso started to loose the edge over Massa or maybe the latter just found his former pace.

So I don't think Alonso did something wrong. But It's impossible not to **** up even once in a season.

#12 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 18:52

Sounds like a load of rubbish to me. I mean, come on, going on about Massa outqualifying Alonso in 3 late season races, saying that means he underqualified and using that as 1 of the ways to say he choked is beyond ridiculous. To say you don't think Alonso gave it everything is 1 of the biggest piles of trash I've ever read, and that's being extremely polite, purely to avoid a ban if I said what I really thought of that comment.

#13 MrFondue

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 18:54

Nein.

Really?

Edited by MrFondue, 10 December 2012 - 18:55.


#14 sailor

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 18:59

Possibly

#15 DutchCruijff

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 19:03

Yup, he choked. He choked in Japan, he choked in Korea and he had a mare in Brazil. He's weak mentally, just as he was in '07 and '10.

#16 tkulla

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 19:04

No, he didn't choke. That said, he certainly didn't step up in Brazil either. The conditions there should have given him a chance to win and he was a non threat.

#17 Craven Morehead

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 19:07

Alonso's results in the final five races of the year were 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd. This in a car that was not nearly up to the speed of either the Redbulls or the McLarens. Vettel was fortunate to get away with his over-cautious start and subsequent accident in Brazil. Had he been eliminated at that moment, I could see an argument that HE choked. Instead he treated us to a drive back up through the field. Neither title protagonist 'choked'.

#18 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 19:15

Yup, he choked. He choked in Japan, he choked in Korea and he had a mare in Brazil. He's weak mentally, just as he was in '07 and '10.


Eh? He didn't choke in Japan, he made a slight error of judgement that I certainly wouldn't class as choking. Korea? What exactly did he do in Korea to have you say he choked? I can't remember anything off the top of my head. A mare in Brazil? Really? He may not have been particularly quick, but why are you putting that purely down to Alonso? Is it because the car was good in the wet earlier in the season? If so, you're talking about 3-6 months previous, in conditions specific to that day, with cars and tyres specific to that day, and so not related to conditions, tyres etc in Brazil, plus the issue of cars being outdeveloped by other cars. Mentally weak? Based on what? I didn't see anything to suggest he was mentally weak, certainly nothing that specifically springs to my mind at this moment.

Edited by HuddersfieldTerrier1986, 10 December 2012 - 19:17.


#19 Headspin

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 19:17

Saying he choked is as justifiable as claiming that it was all Alonso magic that brougth Ferrari to championship fight in the first place. I dont believe in either of the claims.

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#20 PretentiousBread

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 19:18

Utterly no.

The only thing giving the 'choking' theory any credence is that his qualifying was poor in the final two rounds - however at Austin he was consistently slower than Massa as opposed to choking on his Q3 lap or anything like that, he had upgrades that Massa didn't have and they didn't appear to work. Same story goes for Brazil. Thing is he did a phenomenal job in both races, superb, brave, fully committed starts, and did all that could reasonably be expected of him from thereon after.

Have to say, anyone with eyes can surely tell Alonso was doing this all season long, putting everything on the line, and getting away with it more often than is logical. It was one of the best driver campaigns i've ever witnessed, if not the best. I'm a Hamilton fan and I believe 2012 was his best season to date, and yet Alonso's was still better for me, just because his task was so much harder, in terms of what he had to do to put himself into high point scoring positions and the level of risk involved. This whole 'Alonso just cruises and collects' theory is utter bollocks, and those who actually believe that don't have a clue what they're watching. How can anyone possibly accuse him of 'cruise and collect' after watching his opening laps at Melbourne, Valencia, Monza, India, Abu Dhabi, Austin & Brazil? His only two speakable on track errors - running wide at turn 8 at China, and not giving Raikkonen enough space at Suzuka - were more evidence that he was in no way being cautious.



#21 PretentiousBread

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 19:20

Nein.


:lol: :up:

So appropriate given the thread title.

#22 antifozy

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 19:29

Define best car and define best team.

The McLaren was 'The Fastest' car in 2012. Button, who was useless mid-season, even won 3 Grands Prix in it.

The Ferrari team was united in the last fly-aways, it had a solid, fast race car at that time...and Massa was in line for podium after podium, proving it was a solid, fast racing car.

Where was Webber in the final fly-aways? Webber's not useless. He was close in qually to Vettel in 2012 and won Monaco for the 2nd time on merit. You don't win Monaco twice on merit if you're useless. So, given that Webber wasn't scoring well with the RBR later, to me suggests that Vettel was driving the revisions like a Demon in full attack mode. It also means that the RBR was no more superior - or not as superior as the McLaren - to the Ferrari in race trim by then.

Alonso was not performing to Massa's level when the car was a solidly a podium car. That's where I think the choking comes from.


As others pointed out. Choking means making a mistake. What mistake did he make aside from Japan, which was also marginal. Alonso was very consistent. Massa had nothing to loose in the last few races - he already had the contract and there wasn't much expected of him, while for Alonso, a DNF would have been end of the game. You can also say that Vettel chocked in Brazil turn 4, and good only luck and awesomeness of RB8 got him the championship. Vettel won and he deserved it. Alonso would have deserved it if he had won.

#23 DutchCruijff

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 19:34

Eh? He didn't choke in Japan, he made a slight error of judgement that I certainly wouldn't class as choking. Korea? What exactly did he do in Korea to have you say he choked? I can't remember anything off the top of my head. A mare in Brazil? Really? He may not have been particularly quick, but why are you putting that purely down to Alonso? Is it because the car was good in the wet earlier in the season? If so, you're talking about 3-6 months previous, in conditions specific to that day, with cars and tyres specific to that day, and so not related to conditions, tyres etc in Brazil, plus the issue of cars being outdeveloped by other cars. Mentally weak? Based on what? I didn't see anything to suggest he was mentally weak, certainly nothing that specifically springs to my mind at this moment.

You're questioning Brazil? Poor Quali + lost it 3 times in the race. Lucky he finished at all.

#24 Gagá Bueno

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 19:37

Saying he choked is as justifiable as claiming that it was all Alonso magic that brougth Ferrari to championship fight in the first place. I dont believe in either of the claims.


:up: +1

#25 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 19:41

You're questioning Brazil? Poor Quali + lost it 3 times in the race. Lucky he finished at all.


The car wasn't exactly sensationally quick in any of the last few quali sessions though, so how can you say he choked because he didn't qualify too well in Brazil or any other races late in the season? It's not like he was qualifying 4th-8th in the last few races in a car that was capable of pole and kept making mistakes on his Q3 laps. That's a really really weak argument. Lost it 3 times in the race? Alot of drivers made mistakes in the race, he didn't make any that nearly resulted in retirement, certainly not that I remember off the top of my head, he just ran wide a couple of times, and he wasn't quick enough in the conditions to challenge for the win, but then nor were many cars particularly.

Edited by HuddersfieldTerrier1986, 10 December 2012 - 19:43.


#26 2ms

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 19:46

I think Alonso had a lot of good fortune that placed him artificially high in the first half of the season. No one has that kind of good luck across a whole season. Another way of putting it, is that I think if the order of the season had been reversed, then we would be talking about how amazing he is, rather than about choking -- that it's basically just chance, the timing of things. Alonso is better under pressure than Hamilton. He definitely does not thrive off it the way Vettel and Raikkonen appear to. The latter especially (e.g. 2007).

#27 rasul

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 19:52

Yes, he choked. He had a strong season overall, but choked when it really mattered--when the title was at stake. In Brazil he looked like a helpless child babysitted by Massa. Being talented isn't enough; you have to have champion's mentality. He lacked it, simple as that. I wish Hamilton would have become the champion, but even Vettel deserved the title much more than Alonso, proving that he had the balls and determination when it mattered.

There's mentality of a winner, and then there's mentality of a sore loser. Alonso has the latter. I hope he will be gone from Ferrari. I was really excited when he joined Ferrari, but with every year, I'm more and more convinced that Alonso was a bad choice for Ferrari. I'm afraid we won't win anything while he's our driver.

#28 PretentiousBread

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 19:55

I think Alonso had a lot of good fortune that placed him artificially high in the first half of the season. No one has that kind of good luck across a whole season. Another way of putting it, is that I think if the order of the season had been reversed, then we would be talking about how amazing he is, rather than about choking -- that it's basically just chance, the timing of things. Alonso is better under pressure than Hamilton. He definitely does not thrive off it the way Vettel and Raikkonen appear to. The latter especially (e.g. 2007).


What pressure in 2007 are you referring to? Raikkonen went into the last 2 rounds with a 17 point gap to bridge, (that's about 43 points in today's currency), there was no pressure as no one in their right minds expected him to win the title.

I don't get the idea that Vettel thrives on pressure. If we're talking about real pressure, his opening lap at Brazil was a shocker - tentative into the Senna S, getting swamped by all those around him, then braking massively early into turn 4 and sweeping into the apex with complete disregard for the extremely high likelihood that someone would be there. Montreal 2011 another example of him not thriving under pressure, as is Nurburgring 2011.

Don't get me wrong, all the top drivers have plenty of instances of them bottling it under pressure, i'm not picking on Vettel. But that's the reason I don't get the statement that he 'thrives' off it any more than Alonso/Hamilton do.

#29 wj_gibson

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 20:02

Oh yes, the choking, Spygating, crash-gating, Raikkonen career-assassinating, pay-driving, Briatore-rimming piece of Spanish sh*t choked by finishing on the podium in five of the final six races.

Well, that's what the OP and a lot of other contributors to this thread basically mean, protests to "balanced discussion" or not. The very question is so value-loaded that it cannot really do anything other than motivate trolls.

Edited by wj_gibson, 10 December 2012 - 20:03.


#30 Tombstone

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 20:04

Thoughts?


This will not end well.

#31 garoidb

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 20:17

Alonso's results in the final five races of the year were 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd. This in a car that was not nearly up to the speed of either the Redbulls or the McLarens. Vettel was fortunate to get away with his over-cautious start and subsequent accident in Brazil. Had he been eliminated at that moment, I could see an argument that HE choked. Instead he treated us to a drive back up through the field. Neither title protagonist 'choked'.


This. Alonso got all the results that were possible. He had help from Massa, yes, but he still got his part of the job done. Vettel got his job done too, and Vette/Red Bull had race winning pace in several of the late season races. Even when things did go wrong, they had the pace to recover most of the damage. There was nothing Alonso could do about this. He just got the results that were possible with the Ferrari, ably assisted by Felipe towards the end.

#32 SUPRAF1

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 20:17

I think his large lead in the beginning was due to an unexpected win in Malaysia and Valencia and rivals eating points off each other. It's not so much that he was incredible at the start and then went downhill near the end, but that Red Bull got their act together near the end and McLaren fell really quickly. I think he pushed equally hard and drove fantastic throughout the season.

Just as circumstances beyond his control got him the large lead, it also took it away.

Edited by SUPRAF1, 10 December 2012 - 20:20.


#33 TifosiUSA

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 20:26

Choking...LMAO yeah right. 5 podiums in the last 5 races in a Ferrari, sure choked it up... :lol: :rotfl:

#34 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 20:33

Alonso's results in the final five races of the year were 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd. This in a car that was not nearly up to the speed of either the Redbulls or the McLarens. Vettel was fortunate to get away with his over-cautious start and subsequent accident in Brazil. Had he been eliminated at that moment, I could see an argument that HE choked. Instead he treated us to a drive back up through the field. Neither title protagonist 'choked'.


I feel that Massa was quicker and, had he been allowed to show the Ferrari's true potential, would have gotten something similar or even better than 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd.

There's a chance that Massa might have even won in Brazil had he been given the green light to go flat out.

My view is that from Japan onwards, Massa's finishing positions and his potential finishing positions had he not been subjugated would have illustrated that the F2012 - by then - was very capable of providing Alonso with the tools to hold that 40+ point edge that he'd built up thanks to his own driving, Ferrari's impecable trackside operations and other's mechaincal misfortunes.

I'd like to see a level-headed retort of my 3 paragraphs in this post.

PS

On the other hand, one could say that Vettel drove like a Demon and got WAY WAY more out of his Red Bull than Webber managed to...or could conceivably manage to.

Edited by RayInTorontoCanada, 10 December 2012 - 20:35.


#35 Nathan

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 20:36

If anything Ferrari choked.

I didn't see Alonso slip up under the pressure. Evey race he finished better than he started. If he choked we would have seen the dust..or the debris...but we didn't.

Edited by Nathan, 10 December 2012 - 20:37.


#36 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 20:37

Choking...LMAO yeah right. 5 podiums in the last 5 races in a Ferrari, sure choked it up... :lol: :rotfl:


Those 5 straight podiums came about because, in some of those races, Ferrari told Massa to back off...and, if you recall, he was grid dropped in your home country.

Laugh all you want but Alonso is 0 for 2 in title showdowns for the Scuderia.

Enjoy being second!

:down:

#37 ForeverF1

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 20:42

I feel that Massa was quicker and, had he been allowed to show the Ferrari's true potential, would have gotten something similar or even better than 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd.

There's a chance that Massa might have even won in Brazil had he been given the green light to go flat out.

My view is that from Japan onwards, Massa's finishing positions and his potential finishing positions had he not been subjugated would have illustrated that the F2012 - by then - was very capable of providing Alonso with the tools to hold that 40+ point edge that he'd built up thanks to his own driving, Ferrari's impecable trackside operations and other's mechaincal misfortunes.

I'd like to see a level-headed retort of my 3 paragraphs in this post.

PS

On the other hand, one could say that Vettel drove like a Demon and got WAY WAY more out of his Red Bull than Webber managed to...or could conceivably manage to.



Those 5 straight podiums came about because, in some of those races, Ferrari told Massa to back off...and, if you recall, he was grid dropped in your home country.

Laugh all you want but Alonso is 0 for 2 in title showdowns for the Scuderia.

Enjoy being second!

:down:

Both of these posts have nothing to do with the question you posed in the thread title, either you want the thread to be as you stated, or, you wish to have another discussion on matters not to relating to your thread title.
Which is it?

#38 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 20:44

Both of these posts have nothing to do with the question you posed in the thread title, either you want the thread to be as you stated, or, you wish to have another discussion on matters not to relating to your thread title.
Which is it?


I'm replying to other posters.

What do you want me to do?

#39 Sakae

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 20:46

Choking...LMAO yeah right. 5 podiums in the last 5 races in a Ferrari, sure choked it up... :lol: :rotfl:

It is really difficult to know whether he could win a race, and didn't because he failed to inject that something extra of personal what we expect from upper classmen, or perhaps he alone really dragged that car on podium where it did not belong. A lot of people like to believe the later case. IMO it's not a clear cut case at all, however based on support he is receiving for years, I am not ready or willing to give him free benefit of doubt anymore. I think that he gave all what he could, and there is nothing more to see. Whether another man would do better in his place is subject of speculation without really nothing substantive to lean on.

Edited by Sakae, 10 December 2012 - 20:48.


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#40 ForeverF1

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 20:47

I'm replying to other posters.

What do you want me to do?

Keep your thread on track would be a good start.

#41 Fastcake

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 20:49

Now, I love a good Alonso bash as much as the next guy, but I cannot see how he possibly choked at the end of the year. He had a large points lead after the summer that is true, but much of that was a result of the poor luck of his competitors together with his ability to gain very good results as the car let him. The Ferrari at the end of this year was simply not good enough to give him the championship - the only reason Alonso was still in contention was because he arguably stepped up his performances.

#42 ASFA2011

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 20:55

Keep your thread on track would be a good start.


Why don't you just close this thread ? We all know where this is going

#43 ForeverF1

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 20:59

Why don't you just close this thread ? We all know where this is going

There is no reason to close this thread yet. It is a perfectly viable question to ask.

Threads only turn into "bashing threads" due to the quality, or lack of, the members taking part.

#44 ASFA2011

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 21:03

There is no reason to close this thread yet. It is a perfectly viable question to ask.

Threads only turn into "bashing threads" due to the quality, or lack of, the members taking part.


Well , by their own admission some members posting on this thread said that are posting just to bash FA , it is incredible the amount of abuse he takes on these boards

#45 ForeverF1

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 21:11

Well , by their own admission some members posting on this thread said that are posting just to bash FA , it is incredible the amount of abuse he takes on these boards

If you think any posts are breaking the House Rules, then report those posts. Simple, take some responsibility for keeping the thread void of "bashing"

#46 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 21:17

I'm yet to be shown 1 way in which Alonso choked towards the end of the championship (or any any point really). He didn't choke. The nearest he got to choking was the slight misjudgement at Suzuka, which wasn't choking, it was a slight misjudgement, nothing more.

#47 emburmak

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 21:31

An unequvical NO unlike the 2010 finale. FA did the best he could with the equipment he was given & the team he has. Overall, it would have been a travesty if Ferrari, the 3rd best car won the WDC. Yes he did not get the best out of the car in the last races vis a vis FM but the results he got were absolutely top-draw. The problem was that SV with a better car but less unified team kept apace. :cool:

#48 JSDSKI

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 22:00

Mr. Alonso did not choke or fail to deliver all that was available to Ferrari. Maybe even a bit more than the F2012 and its technical team deserved.

OTOH, Mr. Newey has certainly had a pretty good run since 1992. As have most of the drivers pushing his cars around.

#49 Seanspeed

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 22:03

Laugh all you want but Alonso is 0 for 2 in title showdowns for the Scuderia.

Enjoy being second!

:down:

So much for non-inflammatory. :wave:

#50 rijole1

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 22:05

He drove well and got podiums in the last races but didn't manage to win when it was crucial.
He had a car which could deliver racewins.

I got the impression that he lost a bit of his selfconfidence when Vettel got his act together and the hunt began.
It's interesting that this year reminds so much about 2010 season.

Or maybe he just got a bit tired.