3907 replies to this topic

[eronrules]

even before the start of 2013 Mercedes GP AMG petronas stint, they knew each other and raced against each other in various categories. We'll need to see what they do against each other in a similar F1 cars, but here are the results of their previous encounters in single seaters (same season/same machinery).


1999

European Championship ICA Junior [lewis ahead]

Rosberg
Position: 4
Kart: CRG

Hamilton
Position: 2
Kart: Top Kart (Comer)

10° Trofeo Andrea Margutti - 100 Junior [Rosberg ahead]

Rosberg
Position: 13

Hamilton
Position: 18

2000

World Championship Formula A [Lewis ahead]

Rosberg
Position: 22
Team/entry: MBM.com
Kart: CRG (Parilla)

hamilton
Position: 20
Team/entry: MBM.com
Kart: CRG (Parilla)

European Championship Formula A [Lewis ahead]

Rosberg
Position: 2 (51 points)
Team/entry: MBM.com

hamilton
Position: 1 (75 points)
Team/entry: MBM.com

Andrea Margutti Trophy - Formula A [Lewis ahead]

Rosberg
Position: 18

Hamilton
Position: 7

2001

Italian Open Masters Formula A [Lewis ahead]

rosberg
Position: 5 (79.4 points)

Hamilton
Position: 4 (81.4 points)

World Championship Formula Super A [Lewis ahead]

rosberg
Position: 16 (27 points)

hamilton
Position: 15 (28 points)

2004

Formula 3 Euro Series [Rosberg ahead]

rosberg
races 19 wins 3 pole 2 fastest laps 2 podium 5 points 70 standing 4th
hamilton
races 20 wins 1 pole 1 fastest laps 2 podium 5 points 69 standing 5th

Masters of Formula 3 [Rosberg ahead]

rosberg
races 1 wins 0 pole 0 fastest laps 0 podium 0 points 0 standing 6th
hamilton
races 1 wins 0 pole 0 fastest laps 0 podium 0 points 0 standing 14th

Bahrain Super-prix [Lewis ahead]

rosberg
races 1 wins 0 pole 0 fastest laps 0 podium 1 points 0 standing 2nd
hamilton
races 1 wins 1 pole 0 fastest laps 0 podium 1 points 0 standing 1st

Sources(driverdb.com):
lewis hamiton
Nico rosberg

Edited by eronrules, 11 December 2012 - 12:42.

[Jejking]

Good stuff. Thanks.

[PretentiousBread]

even before the start of 2013 Mercedes GP AMG petronas stint, they knew each other and raced against each other in various categories. We'll need to see what they do against each other in a similar F1 cars, but here are the results of their previous encounters in single seaters (same season/same machinery).


2004

Formula 3 Euro Series

rosberg
races 19 wins 3 pole 2 fastest laps 2 podium 5 points 70 standing 4th
hamilton
races 20 wins 1 pole 1 fastest laps 2 podium 5 points 69 standing 5th

Masters of Formula 3.

rosberg
races 1 wins 0 pole 0 fastest laps 0 podium 0 points 0 standing 6th
hamilton
races 1 wins 0 pole 0 fastest laps 0 podium 0 points 0 standing 14th

Bahrain Super-prix

rosberg
races 1 wins 0 pole 0 fastest laps 0 podium 1 points 0 standing 2nd
hamilton
races 1 wins 1 pole 0 fastest laps 0 podium 1 points 0 standing 1st

From karting onwards Rosberg was effectively one year ahead of Hamilton, at that age and in those machines that shouldn't be underestimated, as LH struggled in 2004, he went on to dominate the same category in unprecedented fashion, winning around 75% of the races, reverse grids n' all. It's their karting record where LH shone directly vs Rosberg

Edited by PretentiousBread, 11 December 2012 - 11:18.

[skyform]

I like both drivers so I don't mind who comes on top because they are both great, I just hope that their friendship won't go down because of rivalry. I think that Nico will push Lewis a lot more than some are expecting.

Edited by skyform, 11 December 2012 - 11:17.

[Lazy]

even before the start of 2013 Mercedes GP AMG petronas stint, they knew each other and raced against each other in various categories. We'll need to see what they do against each other in a similar F1 cars, but here are the results of their previous encounters in single seaters (same season/same machinery).


2004

Formula 3 Euro Series

rosberg
races 19 wins 3 pole 2 fastest laps 2 podium 5 points 70 standing 4th
hamilton
races 20 wins 1 pole 1 fastest laps 2 podium 5 points 69 standing 5th

Masters of Formula 3

rosberg
races 1 wins 0 pole 0 fastest laps 0 podium 0 points 0 standing 6th
hamilton
races 1 wins 0 pole 0 fastest laps 0 podium 0 points 0 standing 14th

Bahrain Super-prix

rosberg
races 1 wins 0 pole 0 fastest laps 0 podium 1 points 0 standing 2nd
hamilton
races 1 wins 1 pole 0 fastest laps 0 podium 1 points 0 standing 1st

Looks like Nico's got the edge so far.

[eronrules]

From karting onwards Rosberg was effectively one year ahead of Hamilton, at that age and in those machines that shouldn't be underestimated, as LH struggled in 2004, he went on to dominate the same category in unprecedented fashion, winning around 75% of the races, reverse grids n' all. It's their karting record where LH shone directly vs Rosberg

no one is underestimating anything, but if you compare GP2 season 2005 and 2006, the machinery was different, so a head to head comparison is difficult. and i haven't found their carting track record so far in the internet. if i do, i'll edit the post.

[jrg19]

Could someone change the title to Lewis vs Nico or Hamilton vs Rosberg?

[skyform]

Could someone change the title to Lewis vs Nico or Hamilton vs Rosberg?

+1

[PretentiousBread]

no one is underestimating anything, but if you compare GP2 season 2005 and 2006, the machinery was different, so a head to head comparison is difficult. and i haven't found their carting track record so far in the internet. if i do, i'll edit the post.

No worries, wasn't aiming that at anyone, just a general point I was making. I appreciate you're just stating the facts.

[sailor]

So Lewis lost to Nico in junior formula. Big deal?
I remember Vettel losing to PDR was a big talking point. pre F1 doesnt count at this level

[sailor]

I am generally pro-Lewis but this time around I would be rooting for Rosberg to at least match him ....
... set a tough challenge for Lewis ...would be nice to see how Lewis copes with 2007 like season from the other end of the spectrum.

[MightyMoose]

Excuse me for butting in, we've had precisely 1 Button fan make any comment so far, the insistence on immediately labeling people as haters is ridiculous and should cease before this thread becomes a cess-pit.

If you have ANY issue with a post, you should report it... so far nobody bothered to report anything from this thread so it must be all ok.... unless you guys think it's perfectly acceptable to launch personal attacks and go off-topic.

Perhaps we need to stop here & start again?

[PretentiousBread]

I am generally pro-Lewis but this time around I would be rooting for Rosberg to at least match him ....
... set a tough challenge for Lewis ...would be nice to see how Lewis copes with 2007 like season from the other end of the spectrum.

My prediction is that Rosberg will be close to Hamilton as Button was, but it will come from his qualifying performances, and he won't generally trouble Hamilton as much in terms of race pace as what JB did, but he could find himself starting behind Nico much more often.

[eronrules]

from 2000




youtube - Nico says goodbye Schumi, hello Hamilton - NDTV interview (indian gp)

Edited by eronrules, 11 December 2012 - 13:27.

[PretentiousBread]

from 2000




youtube - Nico says goodbye Schumi, hello Hamilton - NDTV interview (indian gp)

Great job on the OP, makes for interesting reading. I'd highly recommend Lewis Hamilton - The Full Story by Mark Hughes for anyone interested in Hamilton's rise through the ranks alongside Rosberg.

Edited by PretentiousBread, 11 December 2012 - 15:12.

[Boxerevo]

So Lewis lost to Nico in junior formula. Big deal?
I remember Vettel losing to PDR was a big talking point. pre F1 doesnt count at this level

Wasn't same team on 2004.

Hamilton raced with Manor Motorsport and Rosberg with Team Rosberg.

The champion was Jamie Green.

Hamilton was 2005 champion.

Paul Di Resta won 2006,i don't know what really happened that season but he beat his team mate Vettel who was vice.

Edited by Boxerevo, 11 December 2012 - 16:32.

[PinkZepStones]

Ive always been a fan of rosberg and my favourite car make of all time is mercedes benz, add lewis my favourite driver of all time and the technical staff including Lauda and im over the moon!

I expect the same as Button only Rosberg will occasionally beat Hamilton in quali on pure equal pace and also not struggle with issues like Button did, Rosberg is consistent so Hamilton will have to perform at least to 2010 level to beat him.


Still i think its pretty clear cut that Hamilton will come out on top personally, its just a matter f how much.

[eronrules]

Wasn't same team on 2004.

Hamilton raced with Manor Motorsport and Rosberg with Team Rosberg.

The champion was Jamie Green.

Hamilton was 2005 champion.

Paul Di Resta won 2006,i don't know what really happened that season but he beat his team mate Vettel who was vice.

but the car was same, as it was spec series

[OO7]

I like both drivers so I don't mind who comes on top because they are both great, I just hope that their friendship won't go down because of rivalry. I think that Nico will push Lewis a lot more than some are expecting.

That's how I see it also skyform. I expect Rosberg to surprise a lot of people.

[UPRC]

I like both drivers so I don't mind who comes on top because they are both great, I just hope that their friendship won't go down because of rivalry. I think that Nico will push Lewis a lot more than some are expecting.

Agreed.

I feel awful for Nico, I really do. Whenever fans acknowledge he's not too shabby, his Mercedes (or Williams) quickly turns to **** and everyone then forgets that he's pretty decent. I'm a big Nico fan and, even though I don't think he'll ever be WDC, he's at least another high level journeyman ala Barrichello, Coulthard, or Ralfie. I do think that Lewis will come out on top, but it will be closer than some think.

Edited by UPRC, 11 December 2012 - 18:09.

[Buttoneer]

Before I get hounded out as a hater-Button-fan-not-allowed-to-have-a view, here's my bonafides.

So, I think this pairing will be broadly the same as it was against Button. Rosberg and Hamilton will have a great relationship off-track though perhaps if it starts to look a bit one-sided on the support side then it might not end up so well. I never once got a hint that there was anything except an occasional and isolated problem between Rosberg and Schumacher and this may be because both are professional in their outlook and approach to the team, and also because they were fighting the car far more than they fought each other. If Hamilton gets all the testing days, or keeps getting preferred strategies etc, I don't see Rosberg as someone who will take the crap.

Rosberg is fast, and he has been used to playing at the back, which means he's had a chance to hone his racecraft in the midfield battle where you are up against drivers of every ability in a car of variable ability. If Mercedes stay back there I predict that he'll finish more often than Hamilton, but that his best finishes won't be as good. If Mercedes make a good push to the front, I can see these guys being pretty equal in most circumstances, including qualifying, which as others have pointed out was Button's weak point.

Overall result; too close to call, but it's going to be exciting to see just how close.

[olliek88]

I tend to share Buttoneers opinion. I'll be very surprised if it is anything other than tight, i expect Lewis to have the edge over one lap but Nico is a good, intelligent racer so it could be very close.

Lewis has a lot more to lose though, he's expected to beat Nico and is, generally, regarded as one of the fastest guys in the sport so if Nico does match or even beat Lewis his stock will rise and Lewis's will take a big hit. Can't wait to see how they stack up though, roll on 2013!

[Kingshark]

For how long have they known each other?

[P123]

I don't see a huge difference to that of his battle with JB, although I expect Rosberg will get the better of him in qualifying more often than either JB or Heikki did. Should be a strong driver line-up for Merc.

[Rinehart]

My prediction is that Rosberg will be close to Hamilton as Button was, but it will come from his qualifying performances, and he won't generally trouble Hamilton as much in terms of race pace as what JB did, but he could find himself starting behind Nico much more often.

Close to my prediction. I think Rosberg will fare better than Button did against Hamilton in terms of qualifying pace but nowhere near as much of a challenge in terms of race earned points. Essentially I'm predicting this battle will reflect we'll on Hamilton and Button, less well on Rosberg and Schumacher.

[eronrules]

i have a feeling that the rivalry between Rosberg-vettel will be much higher and much publicized than that between michael and rosberg. in schumi-rosberg case, one was legend, no matter the result, rosberg will always play journeyman to a 7 times WDC. but rosberg will want to prove himself someone closer and equally if not more gifted driver like hamilton. If i'm not mistaken, he did once mentioned that lewis was fortunated enough to drive straight into a championship winning car (i don't remember where, but i read it ) while he had to endure williams stint when they weren't competitive. so we'll probably have a 'Tasty' inter-team rivalry, provided that the car is atleast decent.

i'm waiting to see if Merc play the preferential game with hamilton, Nico won't like that. those people who are discounting nico to play massa's role as a journey man should re-consider.

[Coral]

I don't think Nico will fare badly at all against Lewis, and it will be very close at times, but I really think that Lewis will hit the form of his life in the next couple of years. I can't see Nico beating Lewis in the WDC standings unless Lewis has another horrible year luck-wise (please no)! I think Lewis will relish the new challenge of driving for Mercedes, and he will enjoy competing against Nico, whom he gets on well with. This is one pairing that I am really looking forward to seeing.

[MinT]

For me its interesting how peoples opinion of Hamilton has become more realistic.

If the 3 years with Button hadnt happened this thread would now be full of the "Rosberg will be destroyed by Lewis" stuff we saw at the end of 09.

I actually think Hami has a better chance of dominating Rosberg than he did with Button. Rosberg is fast over one lap when the car is good - but has had a tendancy to be nowhere in races i.e the opposite of JB. He seems very similar to Heikki and people giving Rosberg a chance against Hami are reading to much into his performance against a past-it Schumi .At the end of the day it is the performance in the race that matters and here I think Hami will show his class- he will also more than likely be getting the full team support as the new star as well.

Having said all that....I would of course love to see hami smashed out of sight - if only to see the conspiracy theory mob go into meltdown ;)

[olliek88]

For me its interesting how peoples opinion of Hamilton has become more realistic.

I think it has more to do with Nico's performance against Michael over the last 3 seasons, this season it was close but beating MS has raised his stock even further. Nico is definitely a very good driver, i suspect we're about to find out wether he is more than that.

[eronrules]

For me its interesting how peoples opinion of Hamilton has become more realistic.

If the 3 years with Button hadnt happened this thread would now be full of the "Rosberg will be destroyed by Lewis" stuff we saw at the end of 09.

I actually think Hami has a better chance of dominating Rosberg than he did with Button. Rosberg is fast over one lap when the car is good - but has had a tendancy to be nowhere in races i.e the opposite of JB. He seems very similar to Heikki and people giving Rosberg a chance against Hami are reading to much into his performance against a past-it Schumi .At the end of the day it is the performance in the race that matters and here I think Hami will show his class- he will also more than likely be getting the full team support as the new star as well.

Having said all that....I would of course love to see hami smashed out of sight - if only to see the conspiracy theory mob go into meltdown ;)

i too share that view, i think it was brundle who said rosberg is a driver who can drive a car upto it's potential, i.e what it can do mechanically in almost every condition. but he lacks that extra tenths that a driver can bring (i.e lewis/vet/alonso ... kimi ). rosberg is an race engineers dream driver as drivers like him can pretty much match the expected performance of a car. but to win championship, a team needs a solid performer(rosberg) with a flary talent to push that extra bit (lewis). they were hoping it'd happen with schumi (it didn't), now they have a even fresher and hungry-er driver in lewis. so it remains to be seen what happens in 2014, although hamilton already said he's expected to take at least 6 months to start making any impact in Mercedes team. but who knows, it can turn out to be another kimi comeback 2012 performance too. so fingers crossed/

[LiJu914]

Compared to JB i think Rosberg is better in Qualifying and also faster with a not so good balanced car. In every other aspect i would give JB the benefit of the doubt so far.

So all in all i expect Lewis to have a slightly easier time beating Nico than beating Jenson.

[Rybo]

Rosberg is fast, and he has been used to playing at the back, which means he's had a chance to hone his racecraft in the midfield battle where you are up against drivers of every ability in a car of variable ability. If Mercedes stay back there I predict that he'll finish more often than Hamilton, but that his best finishes won't be as good.

Only part I don't agree with. I think Hamilton will be able to fight wheel to wheel with other drivers. Obviously against someone like Grosjean or Maldonado there is a certain element of bad luck, but I think he has learned to play the long game and concede when it's necessary.

[MP4XX]

For me its interesting how peoples opinion of Hamilton has become more realistic.

If the 3 years with Button hadnt happened this thread would now be full of the "Rosberg will be destroyed by Lewis" stuff we saw at the end of 09.

I actually think Hami has a better chance of dominating Rosberg than he did with Button. Rosberg is fast over one lap when the car is good - but has had a tendancy to be nowhere in races i.e the opposite of JB. He seems very similar to Heikki and people giving Rosberg a chance against Hami are reading to much into his performance against a past-it Schumi .At the end of the day it is the performance in the race that matters and here I think Hami will show his class- he will also more than likely be getting the full team support as the new star as well.

Having said all that....I would of course love to see hami smashed out of sight - if only to see the conspiracy theory mob go into meltdown ;)

I concur with this. Rosberg will have to up the ante during the races or he will become Hekki Mk II. I'm relishing the qualifying battles though as Nico has proven one lap pace. I'm just hoping Merc has a car that can challenge and will have the reliability that won't lose Lewis a championship and miserably skew the points gap to his teammate as has happened this year.
We could have done without the flame bait though.

Edited by MP4XX, 11 December 2012 - 19:47.

[Lord_Shaitan]

And yet another one, with Bobby this time ;

[CrashPad]

My money is on Rosberg giving Hamilton a very good run for his money, but I'd still expect Lewis to finish ahead in the standings.

[kpchelsea]

Looks like Nico's got the edge so far.

The only time they were teamates was in karting for 2 years when Hamilton came out on top

but the car was same, as it was spec series

The teams were different though, Hamilton's team was new to the series having previously competed in Brtiish FRenault

I don't see a huge difference to that of his battle with JB, although I expect Rosberg will get the better of him in qualifying more often than either JB or Heikki did. Should be a strong driver line-up for Merc.

I think similar as well

[eronrules]

My money is on Rosberg giving Hamilton a very good run for his money, but I'd still expect Lewis to finish ahead in the standings.

talk about money, doesn anyone knows how much Rosberg is paid in Mercedes??? Lewis is paid 20 mil, rosberg should worth atleast half of it.

[kpchelsea]

And yet another one, with Bobby this time ;

Shame Kubica is no longer on the grid

[ermo]

Both Nico and Lewis are extremely tough defenders. You don't get past either driver unless you've really earned it. I'm very excited about this pairing as both are hitting their prime and have enough races under their belts to understand that it is necessary to play the long game.

I'm guessing Lewis will go there expecting to be a bit faster than Nico overall, but I think Nico will challenge him from the word go. Lewis will not have it easy at Mercedes. On the other hand, that means that we'll get to see both him and Nico performing at their absolute best. Definitely has the potential to become one of the best and most exciting pairings on the grid IMHO.

I'm going to be watching them both very closely.

[OO7]

Both Nico and Lewis are extremely tough defenders.

Up until Bahrain this year, I believe Nico's was defensive driving was described as anything but tough.

[maverick69]

Meh.

I'm gonna get off the fence and say that Rosberg will get tonked performance wise.

Lewis was operating at another level last year........ His best year so far IMO. With some new found freedom he will potentially (and hopefully) step it up again.

[Kingshark]

Up until Bahrain this year, I believe Nico's was defensive driving was described as anything but tough.

You don't have to ram people off the road to be a good defender.

Watch Rosberg vs Hamilton - China 2010. I really wish I could find the video right now.

In the rain, Rosberg out of some 10 drivers was the only one to actually hold a 1-second faster Hamilton back on merit alone. Lewis breezed passed everyone else but couldn't pass Nico on circuit, and had to jump him in the pits instead.

I believe Nico's defense is a bit underrated. Sure, he usually does't defend his position harshly, but when he does he is very hard to overtake.

[jjcale]

Meh.

I'm gonna get off the fence and say that Rosberg will get tonked performance wise.

Lewis was operating at another level last year........ His best year so far IMO. With some new found freedom he will potentially (and hopefully) step it up again.

+ 1

[Sith]

This will be Nico's last contract... Such is the pasting Lewis will give him....

[eronrules]

can anyone have anything other that extreme expectation from the merc duo??? i mean so far what i've read is like

lewis will smoke nico
nico will be lewis's bitch
this will be nico's last breath ....

need i remind you that these two were pretty evenly matched during their early years with lewis having slight upper hand. now, lewis is basically going into Nico's team and he himself said he'll need atleast 6 months to come on top of the Mercedes Woeful-04.

but ... there is also the possibility that lewis may blitz nico from the get go as most probably the Woeful-04 is going to be a compleate redraw using input from the stable of TD's in merc.

all in all, don't count out nico, though i don't expect mercedes to put their support behind him seeing how they persuaded hamilton out of Macca with 20+m pounds, they'll put all their eggs in his basket, NTL we'll have to wait and see and frankly IMO, this pairing will be the most exciting to watch come 2013 ... unless webber starts beating vettel or perez starts beating J.nogrip.Button

[Buttoneer]

I believe Nico's defense is a bit underrated. Sure, he usually does't defend his position harshly, but when he does he is very hard to overtake.

I agree, and this is what I was referring to when I said that Nico has had lots of battles with drivers of verying performance in a car with variable performance. Nico has had to learn when to fight and when to roll over. There really is no point at all defending hard and losing 1s a lap to a car which, ultimately, you are not racing against, and Nico has a lot more experience on that front than Lewis. It's not weakness, but pragmatism.

[Buttoneer]

can anyone have anything other that extreme expectation from the merc duo??? i mean so far what i've read is like

lewis will smoke nico
nico will be lewis's bitch
this will be nico's last breath ....

It really would help A LOT if you actually read some the responses in the thread instead of guessing.

[Clatter]

This will be Nico's last contract... Such is the pasting Lewis will give him....

Where have we heard that sort of line before?

It's going to be an interesting pairing to watch next year.

[Rinehart]

To be honest I see a lot of parallels between the LH v JB years and whats to come with LH v RN, only this time Lewis is joining his teammates team, rather than the other way around. Rosberg is very smart, intelligent guy, good with the media, good with the team, very good with a good car, very good in mix conditions, not one to bin it often... He was very calm about the prospect of MS joining 3 years ago, never lost his cool or composure... seems up for the challenge with Lewis. Basically I think he's very slightly not quite as good as JB, but very similar in a lot of respects.

"Lewis will destroy him"... do people ever learn?!

[McLaren]

To be honest I see a lot of parallels between the LH v JB years and whats to come with LH v RN, only this time Lewis is joining his teammates team, rather than the other way around. Rosberg is very smart, intelligent guy, good with the media, good with the team, very good with a good car, very good in mix conditions, not one to bin it often... He was very calm about the prospect of MS joining 3 years ago, never lost his cool or composure... seems up for the challenge with Lewis. Basically I think he's very slightly not quite as good as JB, but very similar in a lot of respects.

"Lewis will destroy him"... do people ever learn?!