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Hamilton Vs Rosberg - 2013 [merged]


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#2001 undersquare

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:01

Way to much PC BS from F1 personnel these days. Time with Lewis is journo's dream as he opens up. Nico is more quiet and contained but I don't see too much sign of BS from him. He is quite diplomatic as seen in last week's contretemps.


There's no BS from Hamilton though, just you asserting it's insincere, manufacturing a bash with in fact your dishonesty.

Edited by undersquare, 01 April 2013 - 10:01.


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#2002 BernieEc

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:55

anyway, back on to the Mercedes drivers prospects of China. Not sure how cold it will be but I expect the true pecking order to start being revealed and it will be quite hard and a bit more bunched up.

I expect the Redbulls to be still be out front
Ferrari might have a thing or 2 to say especially with Alonso
The lotus will be back in full force
McLaren might have a performance upswing
Force India can't be discounted

apart from the Bulls standing out I expect the others to give our boys a hard run for their money especially if Romain Grosjean and Felipe Massa turn up.

the mere fact that Mercedes is mixing it with the Ferraris and lotus is so much more than a lot predicted for the beginning of the season.

hope the drivers (Lewis and Rosberg) can make some sort of difference if the cars are quite close together

#2003 Muz Bee

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 20:35

There's no BS from Hamilton though, just you asserting it's insincere, manufacturing a bash with in fact your dishonesty.

undersquare, here we go again! :rolleyes: You are arguing over something I have supposedly said which is your perception only. NOWHERE have I implied that Lewis is insincere or talking BS. In fact, just the opposite - I was commending the transparency of the guy. :confused: :confused: :confused:

Maybe I'm reading something into YOUR recent posts, but I suspect you may have some kind of dislike for Nico clouding your posts. I have made no secret of my interest in Nico's career since he started with such a great drive. At Williams he thrashed every teammate driving cars that were simply rubbish (Webber excluded - rookie season). Then with the aged one it was still not possible to see whether he was one of the quicks. Now we know, and Nico needs to press on and race harder and more consistently so against a proven class peddler.

For the record I am really salivating over 2013 at Mercedes because this is the dream team. Lewis has become more and more likable as he has jettisoned the ever present, glowering stare of his father and become his own man. He has grown up in something of a rarified atmosphere at Dennisland and striking out without, first his father, then Ron, has brought some errors but with it he is growing up. No BASH in me. :wave:

Edited by Muz Bee, 01 April 2013 - 20:38.


#2004 jjcale

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 22:37

Have you guys seen this already?

Nico's post-race blog from Malaysia

Cant help but be impressed by this lad....

Edited by jjcale, 04 April 2013 - 22:37.


#2005 undersquare

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 23:06

undersquare, here we go again! :rolleyes: You are arguing over something I have supposedly said which is your perception only. NOWHERE have I implied that Lewis is insincere or talking BS. In fact, just the opposite - I was commending the transparency of the guy. :confused: :confused: :confused:

Maybe I'm reading something into YOUR recent posts, but I suspect you may have some kind of dislike for Nico clouding your posts. I have made no secret of my interest in Nico's career since he started with such a great drive. At Williams he thrashed every teammate driving cars that were simply rubbish (Webber excluded - rookie season). Then with the aged one it was still not possible to see whether he was one of the quicks. Now we know, and Nico needs to press on and race harder and more consistently so against a proven class peddler.

For the record I am really salivating over 2013 at Mercedes because this is the dream team. Lewis has become more and more likable as he has jettisoned the ever present, glowering stare of his father and become his own man. He has grown up in something of a rarified atmosphere at Dennisland and striking out without, first his father, then Ron, has brought some errors but with it he is growing up. No BASH in me. :wave:


OK fair enough I accept your assurance that your 2 and 2 made some other number lol. Really my interpretation was quite inevitable, if you read what you wrote. Glad to be corrected tho.

I like Nico. I did say at one point his past was littered with mistakes, that was a bit of an exaggeration, but I've also said I like him - a number of times, I'm sure. I've also said Oz was a non-score and gave him Malaysia, tho I may have wavered, so I don't know where your impression is coming from.

#2006 robefc

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 23:16

OK fair enough I accept your assurance that your 2 and 2 made some other number lol. Really my interpretation was quite inevitable, if you read what you wrote. Glad to be corrected tho.

I like Nico. I did say at one point his past was littered with mistakes, that was a bit of an exaggeration, but I've also said I like him - a number of times, I'm sure. I've also said Oz was a non-score and gave him Malaysia, tho I may have wavered, so I don't know where your impression is coming from.


Your scorecard is amusing me given my general impression of the neutrality of your posting! :)

#2007 CHIUNDA

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 05:12

Seriously, that's just wild speculations and wishful thinking.


No, it's not even remotely possible. They have an aerodynamic design flaw in the car and Lewis isn't an aerodynamicist.


http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/22031593

McLaren are struggling this season because they failed to adequately replace Lewis Hamilton, according to the team's former driver John Watson.

Hamilton quit McLaren for Mercedes, with Sergio Perez, who has just two seasons of F1 experience, moving from Sauber to team up with Jenson Button.

Watson told BBC Sport: "Red Bull have two drivers of a high level of experience, as do Ferrari and Mercedes.

"McLaren look like they've got one and a half drivers."



“The jury is still out as to the level of potential that Perez has”

John Watson


Give Perez a really good car and he might shine but to me the ultimate driver is one who can drag performance out of an underperforming car.



#2008 undersquare

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:33

Your scorecard is amusing me given my general impression of the neutrality of your posting! :)


Ha, there's a subtle difference between neutrality and objectivity :) .

I'd claim to be reasonably good at going with evidence, but I enjoy the emotional engagement of positively supporting a driver. I must admit it is a bit weird how much I care about Hamilton, considering I have almost nothing in common with him, can't stand religiousness, don't like hip-hop, tattoos, the earrings, X-Factor or even bulldogs :lol: .

Anyway he is a nice guy, and so is Nico.

#2009 Wingnut

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 09:32

Have you guys seen this already?

Nico's post-race blog from Malaysia

Cant help but be impressed by this lad....


Thanks for sharing. Pretty level headed approach by him. I follow Lewis but I hope these two can duke it out on track over the course of the season. I never really took to Jenson as a team mate, there always seemed to be some underlying political motivation as far as I could tell.

#2010 skid solo

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 09:59

And now Jackie Stewart thinks Hanilton can win the championship..

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/22034083

#2011 Lazy

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 10:15

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/22031593



And now Jackie Stewart thinks Hanilton can win the championship..

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/22034083

According to Lewis these ex drivers don't what they are talking about.

#2012 P123

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 10:30

According to Lewis these ex drivers don't what they are talking about.


As he said, some are either one extreme (disastrous move) or the other (potential WDC). Looks like he is correct so far.

#2013 Lazy

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 10:41

As he said, some are either one extreme (disastrous move) or the other (potential WDC). Looks like he is correct so far.

Fair comment, they are either not too sharp or the media are very selective about what they report, I'm guessing the latter.

#2014 undersquare

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 10:55

Fair comment, they are either not too sharp or the media are very selective about what they report, I'm guessing the latter.


Well ... Jackie also says Paddy is going to Merc because of Lewis, whereas it looks more likely that Lewis has in fact blocked him from coming.

There's no reason to think Nico chose to "leave it until the last minute to try and take the initiative" either is there?

So I gotta say Lewis' comment on the old drivers is looking sound :D .


#2015 yoyogetfunky

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 15:47

As he said, some are either one extreme (disastrous move) or the other (potential WDC). Looks like he is correct so far.


:up:





Both Watson and JYS are a bunch of Posted Image looking out for their own interests. As usual.

Edited by yoyogetfunky, 05 April 2013 - 15:48.


#2016 DutchCruijff

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 16:18

I'd just like to take the opportunity now to say that if Rosberg matches, or v.closely follows, Hamilton that will shed Schumacher's return in a much better light. A Schumacher of '12 bettering Rosberg, who matches Hamilton of '13, clearly means Schumacher was still up there amongst the very best, as expected of the GOAT.

#2017 Grundle

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 16:28

I'd just like to take the opportunity now to say that if Rosberg matches, or v.closely follows, Hamilton that will shed Schumacher's return in a much better light. A Schumacher of '12 bettering Rosberg, who matches Hamilton of '13, clearly means Schumacher was still up there amongst the very best, as expected of the GOAT.

Schumi was spanked. Get over it.

#2018 SamH123

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 16:51

Just a thought about Rosberg
I would probably put Rosberg down as the unluckiest driver on the grid of the season so far.

Was super quick (fastest in Q2) in wet Aus qualifying then it dried up for Q3, was super quick in Malaysia qualifying (fastest in Q2) then it rained in Q3, got a mech. failure in the race Australia and then was denied a podium in Malaysia because of team orders.

#2019 schumimercamg

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 16:54

Schumi was spanked. Get over it.


He wasn't. YOU get over it.

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#2020 molpid

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 17:05

Schumi was spanked. Get over it.


IMHO we have a very similar situation compared to last year so far, with Rosberg leveling his teammate but having awful luck / shity circumstances which results in less points than the teammate. So yeah I think Schumacher in his 2nd comeback matched even the current most talented drivers. On the other hand Hamilton might beat Rosberg over the long haul.

#2021 Jejking

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 18:15

Let's wait and see. I'm really starting to warm up to the pair, they are young and energetic and have a lot of fun too (or at least so it seems) :)

#2022 ZooL

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 18:16

I'd just like to take the opportunity now to say that if Rosberg matches, or v.closely follows, Hamilton that will shed Schumacher's return in a much better light. A Schumacher of '12 bettering Rosberg, who matches Hamilton of '13, clearly means Schumacher was still up there amongst the very best, as expected of the GOAT.

The Schumacher of 12 was crashing his car left right and centre.
Like his engineer said "what was that", the guy became a liability and was why he didn't get a new contract.
I'm still impressed with what he did at Monaco though. Some flashes of brilliance.

Come back in 3 years when Hamilton will also have been at Merc for 3 years and settled right in with the car dev tailored to his requirements.

#2023 race addicted

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 18:30

(.....) whereas it looks more likely that Lewis has in fact blocked him from coming.


Have I missed something?? Or are you basing this only on things having become quiet around the Brawn-Lowe saga?


#2024 P123

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 18:35

Have I missed something?? Or are you basing this only on things having become quiet around the Brawn-Lowe saga?


You've not missed anything.

#2025 senna da silva

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 18:37

Just a thought about Rosberg
I would probably put Rosberg down as the unluckiest driver on the grid of the season so far.

Was super quick (fastest in Q2) in wet Aus qualifying then it dried up for Q3, was super quick in Malaysia qualifying (fastest in Q2) then it rained in Q3, got a mech. failure in the race Australia and then was denied a podium in Malaysia because of team orders.


I'm not sure you can call not performing in Q3 unlucky. When the chips are down regardless of weather you have to perform.

#2026 undersquare

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 18:53

Have I missed something?? Or are you basing this only on things having become quiet around the Brawn-Lowe saga?


There were some posts a few days ago.

Somebody claimed Lewis had Brawn in his contract. There's no evidence of that (of course) but it does fit in with the curious way it went down with Lowe on gardening leave then Wolf throwing it all into doubt. Something caused Lowe to effectively resign from Mac then not have a definite place to go.

Lewis was not exactly positive about Paddy joining, he reinforced how he wanted to work with Brawn. And that does make sense.

So it does look more like Lewis NOT wanting Lowe than as JYS said bringing him with him.

#2027 ZooL

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 18:59

There were some posts a few days ago.

Somebody claimed Lewis had Brawn in his contract. There's no evidence of that (of course) but it does fit in with the curious way it went down with Lowe on gardening leave then Wolf throwing it all into doubt. Something caused Lowe to effectively resign from Mac then not have a definite place to go.

Lewis was not exactly positive about Paddy joining, he reinforced how he wanted to work with Brawn. And that does make sense.

So it does look more like Lewis NOT wanting Lowe than as JYS said bringing him with him.

I think its a case of Lowe wanting to follow Hamilton to Merc but Hamilton realising that Brawn would be a better TP. Had Lowe been touted as something as a technical director rather than Team Principal then Hamilton I think would be much happier for Lowe to come on board and help design his car as an engineer and not a leader to inspire others.

Merc can't afford to have a rookie Team Principal like Lowe in charge. He doesn't have the authority and could not man handle all the other big guys at the team, I think. He doesn't have a CV that's even a patch on Brawn either.

Why would Merc spend millions on building a technical team only to place a younger rookie in charge whose never done the job before?

Edited by ZooL, 05 April 2013 - 19:01.


#2028 undersquare

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 19:06

I think its a case of Lowe wanting to follow Hamilton to Merc but Hamilton realising that Brawn would be a better TP. Had Lowe been touted as something as a technical director rather than Team Principal then Hamilton I think would be much happier for Lowe to come on board and help design his car as an engineer and not a leader to inspire others.


Yeah I could imagine Lewis not seeing Paddy as TP, insofar as I don't lol.

Somebody threw a spanner in the works anyway, and I always thought Lewis wanted to work with Brawn. I could also see how Lewis thought he'd left Paddy behind along with the rest of McLaren. And the timing fits with someone not being consulted and then in fact having a lot of influence.

Hard to be sure, but more likely than JYS' version IMO.

#2029 Clatter

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 21:09

I think its a case of Lowe wanting to follow Hamilton to Merc but Hamilton realising that Brawn would be a better TP. Had Lowe been touted as something as a technical director rather than Team Principal then Hamilton I think would be much happier for Lowe to come on board and help design his car as an engineer and not a leader to inspire others.

Merc can't afford to have a rookie Team Principal like Lowe in charge. He doesn't have the authority and could not man handle all the other big guys at the team, I think. He doesn't have a CV that's even a patch on Brawn either.

Why would Merc spend millions on building a technical team only to place a younger rookie in charge whose never done the job before?


You do realise that RB hasn't got many seasons as team principle under his belt.

#2030 BernieEc

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 02:31

You do realise that RB hasn't got many seasons as team principle under his belt.


He has 5 more years (if you count this season then 6) than Paddy does

#2031 Siperoth

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 07:46

According to Lewis these ex drivers don't know what they are talking about.


And looking at their new opinions every other month his quite right.



#2032 Fatgadget

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 07:59

And looking at their new opinions every other month his quite right.

Yeah! We all know the analogy between opinions and a*ssholes! :p



#2033 F1Fan90

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 08:56

The Schumacher of 12 was crashing his car left right and centre.
Like his engineer said "what was that", the guy became a liability and was why he didn't get a new contract.
I'm still impressed with what he did at Monaco though. Some flashes of brilliance.

Come back in 3 years when Hamilton will also have been at Merc for 3 years and settled right in with the car dev tailored to his requirements.


Yes, Schumacher, aged 43, past his prime, indeed crashed left,right and center.
Unlike Lewis, driver who is in his prime, who is quite possibly the best out there. Or maybe it is not like that.
Just take a look at 2011, or 2010, or 2008.

#2034 alframsey

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 10:23

Yes, Schumacher, aged 43, past his prime, indeed crashed left,right and center.
Unlike Lewis, driver who is in his prime, who is quite possibly the best out there. Or maybe it is not like that.
Just take a look at 2011, or 2010, or 2008.

I'm really not sure what this part is referring to? 2011 was a pretty awful year for Lewis, still won three races, and 2010 I don't recall being bad at all. 2008 was his second year in the sport and he was under a ridiculous amount of pressure to take the title (something he delivered on) and inevitably mistake appeared.

As for the Chinese GP I expect Merc will be there at the front along with Lotus, Ferrari and RBR. Don't expect them to win though.

#2035 ZooL

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 13:38

You do realise that RB hasn't got many seasons as team principle under his belt.



He has 5 more years (if you count this season then 6) than Paddy does

and Brawn already has a championship under his belt, despite his minimal number of years as TP.

It's questionable what Lowe has delivered at McLaren too...because Brawn achieved more at Bennetton and then did it again at Ferrari.

#2036 Clatter

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 14:26

He has 5 more years (if you count this season then 6) than Paddy does


And he was a rookie in the job once as well.

Seems some have got their claws out for Paddy.

#2037 undersquare

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 14:54

And he was a rookie in the job once as well.

Seems some have got their claws out for Paddy.


I just think Paddy's unsuitable, there's no malice in it. I remember him being at the WMSC in 2007 sounding pretty unconvincing and generally out of his depth in that hostile political arena, where Brawn sounded his usual confident self.

As Zool pointed out Mercedes is a team full of seniors, strong characters, who all have to be managed. TP there is no place for an inoffensive technical guy like Paddy. Just last race the TP had to lay down the law to his drivers and then fight off Lauda and Wolf, all without falling out with anybody and keeping everyone together.

Mercedes would be insane to move Brawn for anyone, never mind a rookie and someone like Paddy who looks simply the wrong personality.

#2038 JaredS

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 15:07

Nobody talks themselves into a hole quite like Hamilton.
.


I fully agree but the example you quote wasn't one of those times.

#2039 F1Fan90

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 16:07

I'm really not sure what this part is referring to? 2011 was a pretty awful year for Lewis, still won three races, and 2010 I don't recall being bad at all. 2008 was his second year in the sport and he was under a ridiculous amount of pressure to take the title (something he delivered on) and inevitably mistake appeared.

As for the Chinese GP I expect Merc will be there at the front along with Lotus, Ferrari and RBR. Don't expect them to win though.


It is referring to his crashes, like his demolition derby with Massa during 2011, or hitting Kimi in Canada 2008. Things like that.

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#2040 exmayol

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 18:11

It is referring to his crashes, like his demolition derby with Massa during 2011, or hitting Kimi in Canada 2008. Things like that.


But no LH fan needs to remember those, right?

MSC shuts off overheated engine @ Hungary start => brain fade, old, time to retire
LH pits MGP car in McLaren box => hilarious

As to LH vs NR, so far the later has been matching the former. Not sure if talks of new to the team are of any value to LH. Drivers of his caliber are fast right away. No need to settle down, unless you were out of sport for few years.

Edited by exmayol, 06 April 2013 - 18:12.


#2041 ZooL

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 18:30

I just think Paddy's unsuitable, there's no malice in it. I remember him being at the WMSC in 2007 sounding pretty unconvincing and generally out of his depth in that hostile political arena, where Brawn sounded his usual confident self.

As Zool pointed out Mercedes is a team full of seniors, strong characters, who all have to be managed. TP there is no place for an inoffensive technical guy like Paddy. Just last race the TP had to lay down the law to his drivers and then fight off Lauda and Wolf, all without falling out with anybody and keeping everyone together.

Mercedes would be insane to move Brawn for anyone, never mind a rookie and someone like Paddy who looks simply the wrong personality.

Indeed that is my point well made.

What Lowe would benefit from is learning the Team Principle trade at a smaller team, if he wants that promotion.

For Mercedes, its a risk for the shareholders to take in hiring Lowe as an unproven TP. If he can't manage the big ego's then the team will fall apart very quickly. WHat might work is they hire Lowe and train him up to take over Brawn one day, sort of like promoting from within once they are condifent he is the right man for the job.

#2042 yoyogetfunky

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 21:05

I just think Paddy's unsuitable, there's no malice in it. I remember him being at the WMSC in 2007 sounding pretty unconvincing and generally out of his depth in that hostile political arena, where Brawn sounded his usual confident self.

As Zool pointed out Mercedes is a team full of seniors, strong characters, who all have to be managed. TP there is no place for an inoffensive technical guy like Paddy. Just last race the TP had to lay down the law to his drivers and then fight off Lauda and Wolf, all without falling out with anybody and keeping everyone together.

Mercedes would be insane to move Brawn for anyone, never mind a rookie and someone like Paddy who looks simply the wrong personality.


Brawn as a tech boss was impressive, even if he didnt design the great Schumacher Ferraris, but as a Team Principal I dont think he is all that, or let me rephrase that: he still has some things to prove. The post Brawn 2009 years were a huge slump in results for Merc(the pre 2009 years werent that great either), and in the race tactics department he has made several mistakes - unlike his Ferrari days - as well, the last one having one of his cars (or both, whatever story you believe) on fuel in the last race. And apparently the Merc board thinks similar or they wouldnt have poached Paddy Lowe. Its gonna be interesting how Brawn will handle this coming season, especialy with 2 drivers seemingly very similar in performance.

Edited by yoyogetfunky, 06 April 2013 - 21:08.


#2043 BernieEc

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 21:25

Quick question; Is there such a post as Technical Director currently in Mercedes ?
if there is, who holds that post.

reason am asking is I have not really heard of there being a TD post in the current Mercedes structure and maybe that's what Paddy is coming in to fill....just saying


#2044 yoyogetfunky

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 21:29

Quick question; Is there such a post as Technical Director currently in Mercedes ?
if there is, who holds that post.

reason am asking is I have not really heard of there being a TD post in the current Mercedes structure and maybe that's what Paddy is coming in to fill....just saying


I actualy thought the same, until the BBC came with stories Lowe was gonna replace Brawn...

Currently technical director is Bob Bell

#2045 BernieEc

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 21:34

I actualy thought the same, until the BBC came with stories Lowe was gonna replace Brawn...

Currently technical director is Bob Bell

Thanks

#2046 CHIUNDA

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:37

“The difficulty was that we hadn’t really discussed them beforehand and so that was a mistake that we did,” said Rosberg in the press conference prior to the Chinese Grand Prix


I imagine Roseberg is calling for a Team Orders Policy in Mercedes laying out under what circumstances, all relevant scenarios, championship considerations, contractual provisions etc.

#2047 Schumacher7

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:03

Brawn as a tech boss was impressive, even if he didn't design the great Schumacher Ferraris, but as a Team Principal I don't think he is all that, or let me rephrase that: he still has some things to prove. The post Brawn 2009 years were a huge slump in results for Merc(the pre 2009 years weren't that great either), and in the race tactics department he has made several mistakes - unlike his Ferrari days - as well, the last one having one of his cars (or both, whatever story you believe) on fuel in the last race. And apparently the Merc board thinks similar or they wouldn't have poached Paddy Lowe. Its gonna be interesting how Brawn will handle this coming season, especially with 2 drivers seemingly very similar in performance.

In an interview last year Ross said he doesn't have anything to do with race strategy anymore.

#2048 aliasj

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 03:28

Hmm.. I told you so? I keep telling you. Rosberg was +0.5 faster than Schumacher in China all three years. And so far he's also +0.5 than Hamilton on the same track. Lets wait and see all sessions now, if it was a fluke, or if its real.

Edited by aliasj, 12 April 2013 - 03:36.


#2049 Xeriks

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 03:43

Hmm.. I told you so? I keep telling you. Rosberg was +0.5 faster than Schumacher in China all three years. And so far he's also +0.5 than Hamilton on the same track. Lets wait and see all sessions now, if it was a fluke, or if its real.

:stoned:


#2050 SmokeScreen

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:52

lewis' BBC column this week looks


"interesting" ;)

for want of a better word