Strasbourg
#1
Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:46
Two decades and more earlier, races had been run on an 8 mile circuit to the south-west of the town but I have just realised that this was not where the 1947 race was run. The circuit used for that event was 2.25 miles in length.
I have searched the internet, including French language sites, but have so far failed to learn anything about this track.
Does anyone have any info about it, please?
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#2
Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:49
#3
Posted 12 December 2012 - 10:54
Departure Route du Rhin than turn to Avenue Aristide Briand, Rue Jean Jaures,
Route du Polygone and back to Route du Rhin.
Only Route du Rhin has changed since and not much...
#4
Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:10
I will see if everything tallies on Google Earth.
#5
Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:44
The Route du Polygone actually does not exist between the Rue Jean Jaures and the Route du Rhin. In fact, if you check the historical imagery on Google Earth, in 2007 the area appears to be a lorry park or something similar, whereas now it is just an open area with grass and trees.
However, Google offers an aerial view from 1943! In that one, there does appear to be a road that is an extension of the Route du Polygone, running right across the space where there is no road now.
Using that road (only 4 years before the race in question) my circuit line turns out to be 3,811 meters - the distance shown on the race result is 3,626, so we are out by 185 meters. A sizeable amount but then again, there is little doubt that we ARE in the right place.
#6
Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:49
https://maps.google....012765,0.026071
That gives me 3.7 km or about 2.24 miles. Wouldn´t that fit? Certainly there are some meters to gain by widening roads or smoother corners.
#7
Posted 12 December 2012 - 12:43
Tried to translate the description into google maps:
https://maps.google....012765,0.026071
That gives me 3.7 km or about 2.24 miles. Wouldn´t that fit? Certainly there are some meters to gain by widening roads or smoother corners.
That's like I see it. The turn Route du Polygone / Route du Rhin was probably different in 1947.
#8
Posted 12 December 2012 - 13:04
If I modify my line to follow the imaginary road across that area, my circuit length comes down to 3,701, which is only 75 meters out, so as Rudi says, I reckon we are about there.
This is great news - it means I will be able to go ahead with my Grand Prix d'Alsace next year, confident that I have the circuit plan just about right.
#9
Posted 12 December 2012 - 13:16
#10
Posted 12 December 2012 - 13:22
Maybe all the rulers were destroyed during the war.
Edited by Barry Boor, 12 December 2012 - 13:23.
#11
Posted 12 December 2012 - 13:41
In all seriousness they may well have used a surveyor's wheel a calibrated wheel on a stick with a rotation counter, a precision version of the cyclometer which you coukld fix to the front fork and wheel of your bicycle to measure how far you'd gone (at least until you forgot it was there and broke it when you laid your bike down).Then again, Duncan, back in 1947, the circuit may well have been measured by someone walking around, counting his steps then 'doing the math'.
Maybe all the rulers were destroyed during the war.
#12
Posted 12 December 2012 - 13:56
#13
Posted 12 December 2012 - 14:22
Don't neglect the backdrop:This is great news - it means I will be able to go ahead with my Grand Prix d'Alsace next year, confident that I have the circuit plan just about right.
#14
Posted 12 December 2012 - 15:20
#15
Posted 12 December 2012 - 19:09
Google Earth has a 1943 aerial photo. There is a slight difference to the layout at the western end, but otherwise the roads seem identical.The satellite picture and the labels clearly don't match. You can see that the Route du Rhin leads into a tunnel. My guess would be that this is a relatively new construction and the Google map labels still show the old arrangement of the streets. The heavy construction work north of the Route de Rhine indicates that the whole area was remodeled. Perhaps, and that's another guess, to transform a former harbour into a new town quarter.
#16
Posted 12 December 2012 - 19:12
#17
Posted 12 December 2012 - 20:38
Google Earth has a 1943 aerial photo. There is a slight difference to the layout at the western end, but otherwise the roads seem identical.
Of course I was only talking about the western end, the "missing" part of Rue du Polygone. I cannot access that 1943 aerial picture, so I wonder what you mean by "slight difference". Hard to believe that the Route du Rhin tunnel would have existed in 1943.
Just to make my point clear: I do not doubt that this "missing part" of Rue du Polygone once was there and was used as part of the racetrack. I just think the area has been remodeled when the tunnel has been build. That could explain why the "missing part" has vanished in the current satellite foto but is still included in the Google maps labels.
#18
Posted 12 December 2012 - 20:49
#19
Posted 12 December 2012 - 21:10
I'm sure that is correct.
Yes, on place there is a big roundabout with tramway crossings.
here an old map, as it was in 1947. With Jean-Jaurès, Polygone and route du Rhin. (the cemetery is still there now).
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#20
Posted 12 December 2012 - 21:13
Thank you, Rudi.
#21
Posted 12 December 2012 - 21:28
Believe it or not, it's within 5 meters of the measurement given for the circuit.
Another TNF success!
#22
Posted 12 December 2012 - 22:07
#23
Posted 12 December 2012 - 22:11
In all seriousness they may well have used a surveyor's wheel a calibrated wheel on a stick with a rotation counter, a precision version of the cyclometer which you coukld fix to the front fork and wheel of your bicycle to measure how far you'd gone (at least until you forgot it was there and broke it when you laid your bike down).
Sorry Duncan..CYCLOMETER..strictly no wheelies please!!
Michael
#24
Posted 12 December 2012 - 22:33
Amazing. It took just some 12 hours to answer Barry's question. Great stuff here on TNF.
I wish we had had the same success with Vigevano!