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Button v Perez - 2013


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#101 Kingshark

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 21:55

Some sense of humor is sometimes a good thing to bring with you.
Also,
knowing
a little
bit of
history.

Otherwise you end up looking like an idiot.

Thanks for the laughs. :lol:

Edited by Kingshark, 12 January 2013 - 21:56.


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#102 Kingshark

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 21:56

People would think better of Sato. Perez will get destroyed so badly that he will probably consider early retirement after 2013. Perez at Mclaren will be a disaster. Button will obliterate him nearly every race. Jenson is the real deal people.

Jenson Button and Lewis Hamilton Scorecard - 2010

People would think better of Kovy.

Career suicide on Jenson's part.

Although, at this point, it seems like all he cares about is money anyway.

Button would get destroyed so badly that he will probably consider early retirement after 2010

Button at Mclaren would be a disaster. Hamilton will obliterate him nearly every race.

Sounds familiar?

Be careful what you type.

#103 Force Ten

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 22:21

Jenson Button and Lewis Hamilton Scorecard - 2010
Sounds familiar?

Be careful what you type.

You still don't get it? There's a reason these quotes are verbatim.

#104 olliek88

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 22:22

[
Sounds familiar?

Be careful what you type.


One is a WDC and probably one of the top 5 drivers on the grid, the other is unproven. Its a slightly different comparison, its a little more naive to doubt a WDC then an unproven driver.

I like Sergio, i rooted for him in GP2 in 2010 and in F1 pretty much since but i haven't seen enough from him to suggest he'll beat JB, maybe 3-4 times over the course of the season he will but i would be surprised if its 50/50 or more in Checo's favour between the two.

I'll be more than happy to eat my words but i think its more likely he'll do a Heikki-esque job than a Jenson-esque job.

#105 Mc_Silver

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 22:48

I think it is a bit too much to expect Sergio to beat Button in his first year for sure. Button should easily have the edge in 2013 as he will be number 1 driver and car will be more suitable for him. Sergio will be much more competitive from 2014 and onwards

Edited by Mc_Silver, 12 January 2013 - 22:49.


#106 Bloggsworth

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 23:08

If Perez can come close to winning 2 races in a Ferrari powered Sauber (and read into that what you will), I see no reason why he couldn't win in a McLaren if the car is competetive.

#107 Mc_Silver

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 23:15

If Perez can come close to winning 2 races in a Ferrari powered Sauber (and read into that what you will), I see no reason why he couldn't win in a McLaren if the car is competetive.


I think his podium finishes were underrated. Especially in Malaysia, he was the fastest guy both in wet and dry condition whereas his team mate was nowhere near him. In Monza, he was definitely on it. He was able to go as fast as Soft tyres runners in the first stint and front runners were 1 stopper there. His overtaking on Raikkonen, Massa, Alonso were pure class. When his car was good he was there to take it for sure..

Edited by Mc_Silver, 12 January 2013 - 23:19.


#108 as65p

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 23:22

People would think better of Sato. Perez will get destroyed so badly that he will probably consider early retirement after 2013. Perez at Mclaren will be a disaster. Button will obliterate him nearly every race. Jenson is the real deal people.


:D

Yet you forgot the most important aspect. Ultimately, this battle (like the former) will be decided by who Whitmarsh loves more.

#109 Mauseri

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 23:38

:D

Yet you forgot the most important aspect. Ultimately, this battle (like the former) will be decided by who Whitmarsh loves more.

:up: :lol:

#110 MirNyet

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 00:56

I think his podium finishes were underrated. Especially in Malaysia, he was the fastest guy both in wet and dry condition whereas his team mate was nowhere near him. In Monza, he was definitely on it. He was able to go as fast as Soft tyres runners in the first stint and front runners were 1 stopper there. His overtaking on Raikkonen, Massa, Alonso were pure class. When his car was good he was there to take it for sure..


I do agree, Perez as I said has been hired as a second driver - McLaren currently is Team Button. I fully expect this to be visible this year.

#111 SerratedEdge

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 00:58

How many races will it take before Jenson and his engineers are studying Checo's telemetry to figure out why the team leader can't find speed or balance?



JB wont have to worry about the telemetry sheets being posted on twitter though..........

Edited by SerratedEdge, 13 January 2013 - 01:09.


#112 SCEPurple

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 02:33

This is going to be interesting. Perez is an unknown for me. He seems to have some potential but hasn't proved yet that he can deliver on a consistent basis. On the other hand, Button's speed is ranging from poor to excellent depending on how comfortable he feels with the car.


Yeah totally agree on all points.

There is a slight difference in situation on joining Mclaren also. JB was MW's preferred choice to replace an under performing driver. Sergio OTOH, is more of the plan B if their preferred driver didnt re-sign

#113 Mc_Silver

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:12

Q: How much are you looking forward to working with Jenson Button?
SP: I am so much looking forward to working with a champion and a great guy. The whole team has so much respect for him. I’m looking forward to building up my relationship with him and to helping the team build up the best car possible. I think Jenson and I are going to have a good relationship. I think I have a lot I can learn from him - all his experience and knowledge will be very useful.


Nice interview with Checo..
http://www.formula1....13/1/14183.html

#114 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:42

Jenson has never destroyed any team mate. I don't expect him to start now.

#115 olliek88

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:04

Jenson has never destroyed any team mate. I don't expect him to start now.


Sato? JV? Ruben's in 2009? (Before you say, JB beat Rubens 11-4 in races they both finished, i'd say that was a fair beating)

#116 SunnyENTP

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:22

Sato? JV? Ruben's in 2009? (Before you say, JB beat Rubens 11-4 in races they both finished, i'd say that was a fair beating)

Reubens was racing button and brawn. He was not treated equally. When he was he beat button in the previuos year

#117 olliek88

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:30

Reubens was racing button and brawn. He was not treated equally. When he was he beat button in the previuos year


No, just no. Keep pushing those conspiracy theories all you want but it won't make them fact. Also, why would Brawn favour JB over Rubens, he has a very good & long friendship with Rubinho. Jenson just did the better job.

2006? 2007? Jenson beat Rubens both years, 2008 was the exception to the rule, not the rule.

#118 garoidb

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:42

Agreed, though I don't really understand it. Some Lewis fans will be rooting for Sergio to "destroy" Jenson, even though that would reflect poorly on Lewis. They should really be rooting for the opposite if they're thinking about their man's reputation.


Lewis and Jenson are both British 1xWDCs. Which of them will be the most successful British driver of 2013 or any of the following years? If either of them were to gain another WDC, it would add to their prestige, somewhat at the expense of the other. Look at the reaction on here when Jenson was voted Autosport British Competition Driver of the Year for 2012.

http://forums.autosp...howtopic=178622

#119 garoidb

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:47

I reckon Perez is a mistake too.

JB will easily have the reckoning of him. I dont see any titles for either the team or drivers though but at least he will have a decent british driver in a competitive car.

Hamilton will be back for 2015.


I think so too, but I am not yet sure which driver he will replace. Even if Hamilton does not return, McLaren need to be thinking about getting the next superstar on board (Hulkenberg or whoever). I reckon Jenson and Sergio are duking it out to see who keeps his seat when McLaren make their next major signing.

Having said that, the length of Jenson's current contract is unclear and the number of years he plans to continue in F1 is also unclear. However, I imagine he will stay as long as he has a McLaren drive.

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#120 Clatter

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:26

I think so too, but I am not yet sure which driver he will replace. Even if Hamilton does not return, McLaren need to be thinking about getting the next superstar on board (Hulkenberg or whoever). I reckon Jenson and Sergio are duking it out to see who keeps his seat when McLaren make their next major signing.

Having said that, the length of Jenson's current contract is unclear and the number of years he plans to continue in F1 is also unclear. However, I imagine he will stay as long as he has a McLaren drive.


That's the way every partnership should be. Doesn't matter how big a star they might be, if they don't produce the goods then they will be out.


#121 techspeed

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:54

I reckon Jenson and Sergio are duking it out to see who keeps his seat when McLaren make their next major signing.

This implies that McLaren have got both drivers signed up for their contracts, and at the end of the contracts they are going to replace one of them even if there's no reason to. That's ridiculous and both drivers seats will be safe as long as they are fast enough, just like Hamiltons seat at McLaren was still there if he wanted it.

#122 olliek88

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 13:18

This implies that McLaren have got both drivers signed up for their contracts, and at the end of the contracts they are going to replace one of them even if there's no reason to. That's ridiculous and both drivers seats will be safe as long as they are fast enough, just like Hamiltons seat at McLaren was still there if he wanted it.


What IF (A massive if) in 2 years time when Jenson and Sergio are coming towards the end of their contract Vettel becomes available, (i think thats when his contract runs out) surely you'd try and sign him regardless of how equal those two have been.

#123 Clatter

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 13:22

What IF (A massive if) in 2 years time when Jenson and Sergio are coming towards the end of their contract Vettel becomes available, (i think thats when his contract runs out) surely you'd try and sign him regardless of how equal those two have been.


Not if the 2 existing drivers are performing. What if they are doing well and coming first and second in the championships? Why would you break that up?

#124 olliek88

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 13:26

Not if the 2 existing drivers are performing. What if they are doing well and coming first and second in the championships? Why would you break that up?


Very true! But i'll staple myself to a horse if that happens! :D

#125 garoidb

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 13:42

That's the way every partnership should be. Doesn't matter how big a star they might be, if they don't produce the goods then they will be out.


With Lewis and Jenson, they had one driver widely acknowledged to be in the top three and another who would be number five or six for a lot of people (not everyone). They did not need to replace either of those drivers. Now, they are in a position where they do not have any of the top four drivers, and probably cannot hope to recruit them (except possiblly Lewis if Mercedes does not work out IMO). They need to be on the look out for the next big talent. If that is Perez, then fine and good (I will be wrong if this happens). If not, they need to be scanning the young hopefuls for the new Lewis (or else attract back the original one). Then it becomes a question of who to drop. Ironically, I think Jenson would have been more secure at McLaren if Lewis stayed, although he has a better chance of winning another WDC because he has left.

Coming back to McLaren as Jenson's replacement in two or three years time might be attractive to Lewis on many levels.

#126 SunnyENTP

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 14:19

That's the way every partnership should be. Doesn't matter how big a star they might be, if they don't produce the goods then they will be out.



So you are saying if Button had a season like 2012 for the next 3 year he would be out?

#127 SunnyENTP

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 14:25

What IF (A massive if) in 2 years time when Jenson and Sergio are coming towards the end of their contract Vettel becomes available, (i think thats when his contract runs out) surely you'd try and sign him regardless of how equal those two have been.



You can take a horse to a river but cant force it to drink. Vettel only has his eyes for Ferrari so no amount of offers from McLaren would tempt him. For him and most people, it would be a downgrade going to McLaren when you have the chance to drive for Ferrari.

#128 onewingedangel

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 14:51

Unless Jenson wins the WDC for McLaren he will likely be replaced after 3 years - whether he chooses to retire, race for McLaren in other series, or go to another F1 team. Sergio may not last that long unless he matches or beats Button.

#129 SunnyENTP

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 15:03

Unless Jenson wins the WDC for McLaren he will likely be replaced after 3 years - whether he chooses to retire, race for McLaren in other series, or go to another F1 team. Sergio may not last that long unless he matches or beats Button.



He wont be replaced if he does not win a WDC because I believe even McLaren dont expect him to win the WDC. Also its the same McLaren that said they were not interested in the WDC just wins. So of Button can average 2 wins a year he would stay for a long time. Look at Webber in RB and he is 37 this year. Button can rest easy as he is Whitmarshs favourite and I cant see Whitmarsh as the sort of person who wuld tell Button he wont re renewing his contract. He could even admitted he could not tell Button to help Lewis for the 2012 championship.

So yes Button till atleast 2018 making him the longest serving McLaren driver.

#130 garoidb

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 15:18

So you are saying if Button had a season like 2012 for the next 3 year he would be out?


There are far more factors at play than just how Jenson performs. One is how Sergio performs. Another one is what driving talent might become available to McLaren at any time in the next few years. The only current superstar who has not yet driven for them is Vettel, but I cannot see that happening somehow. They need to get the cream of the crop of the next generation, and will need to pounce when the opportunity arises irrespective of the effect on Jenson or Sergio.




#131 race addicted

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 15:35

...I'm absolutely sure that Button will score more points, (unless he suddenly get's the luck Hamilton has had) but speed-wise between him and Perez, it is harder to call. I think that by the second half of the season, or the last third, Perez might look slightly quicker, but I'm not sure, as Button will perform better I think, when he's having the role of team-leader.

Edited by race addicted, 13 January 2013 - 15:38.


#132 MirNyet

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 00:17

I cannot see why McLaren would want to offload either Button or Perez in the short term - they are already used to Button and have seen at first hand (with far more detail that we can) what he can and has achieved - they have the measure of him. Perez is simply there because they need to race two cars - there were better people on the gird they could have chosen but they have gone with someone who isn't (in the short term at least) going to cause any sleepless nights for Button. As much as Perez is being 'bigged up' he is nothing to shout about - and you cannot help but get the feeling that McLaren will be happy if he simply keeps it out of the wall. I cannot see this situation changing until McLaren either start making their own engines, or get another deal with a works engine.



#133 study

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 00:47

It will be interesting to witness if the mclaren "equality" is kept this year and also how martins after race speeches are for gushing quality

Edited by study, 14 January 2013 - 00:47.


#134 Peter Perfect

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:36

It will be interesting to witness if the mclaren "equality" is kept this year and also how martins after race speeches are for gushing quality

Depends if McLaren carry on with the crazy policy of "promoting" engineers with huge skill and experience.

#135 peroa

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 14:42

Perez has apparently requested McLaren to hire PdlR as test driver again, but they are not keen on doing it.
Story runs in german f1 media today.

#136 Santosdf

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 15:44

Perez has apparently requested McLaren to hire PdlR as test driver again, but they are not keen on doing it.
Story runs in german f1 media today.

Hard to belive he requested a specific test driver , he is new to the team an unproven winner, if true i don't think it's appropriate for him to make such request

#137 Watkins74

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 15:46

So far I have it:

Button 0

Perez 0

#138 Clatter

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 16:05

With Lewis and Jenson, they had one driver widely acknowledged to be in the top three and another who would be number five or six for a lot of people (not everyone). They did not need to replace either of those drivers. Now, they are in a position where they do not have any of the top four drivers, and probably cannot hope to recruit them (except possiblly Lewis if Mercedes does not work out IMO). They need to be on the look out for the next big talent. If that is Perez, then fine and good (I will be wrong if this happens). If not, they need to be scanning the young hopefuls for the new Lewis (or else attract back the original one). Then it becomes a question of who to drop. Ironically, I think Jenson would have been more secure at McLaren if Lewis stayed, although he has a better chance of winning another WDC because he has left.

Coming back to McLaren as Jenson's replacement in two or three years time might be attractive to Lewis on many levels.


Yes they did, Lewis wanted out.




#139 SmokeScreen

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 16:32

Perez has apparently requested McLaren to hire PdlR as test driver again, but they are not keen on doing it.
Story runs in german f1 media today.


News picked up by this site: http://www.f1sa.com/...c...&Itemid=157







Inteeereeessting and raises the questions 1. why he thinks it necessary? 2. does he have the clout to pull this off?

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#140 P123

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 16:37

So far I have it:

Button 0

Perez 0


Quite even at this stage between them, but I have it as Perez 0, Button 0.

#141 PapaD

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 18:49

I'm looking forward to this battle.

If, and I thinks it's a big if, Perez shows up Button then perhaps Jenson will be getting a P45 sooner rather than later.

#142 techspeed

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 19:57

I'm looking forward to this battle.

If, and I thinks it's a big if, Perez shows up Button then perhaps Jenson will be getting a P45 sooner rather than later.

Based on their relative performances, if Perez shows Button up it would show that McLaren made the right decision by replacing Hamilton with Perez.

#143 P123

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 20:03

Based on their relative performances, if Perez shows Button up it would show that McLaren made the right decision by replacing Hamilton with Perez.


Yep. Would be a superb acquisition if he 'shows up' JB.

#144 BillBald

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 23:48

News picked up by this site: http://www.f1sa.com/...c...&Itemid=157

Inteeereeessting and raises the questions 1. why he thinks it necessary? 2. does he have the clout to pull this off?



"The Mexican has requested the presence of a Latin face to help in his adaptation to the team."

It certainly helped Alonso.



#145 Santosdf

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 00:00

"The Mexican has requested the presence of a Latin face to help in his adaptation to the team."

It certainly helped Alonso.

this" latin face to help his adaptation in BS", he has been racing in Europe since he was 15 yrs old

#146 nomi

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:42

Get over it Perez, you do not need a Latin face to hold your hand.

#147 peroa

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:53

Pedro knows everything and everybody in the team, smart thinking by Perez.
Anyway, Pedro just joined Ferrari to develop and work in their simulator.

#148 SunnyENTP

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:09

Get over it Perez, you do not need a Latin face to hold your hand.




No different from Button trying to get his mate DiResta into McLaren. Maybe Perez can see the righting on the wall that he is going to be a number 2 and needs every bit of support he can get. Don't forget Perdo and Alonso were the ones going over Ferrari's data together. I am sure Perez and Pedro would have bonded very well if they haven't alread.

Edited by SunnyENTP, 16 January 2013 - 10:13.


#149 Dalton007

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:56

So far I have it:

Button 0

Perez 0



Judging by the comments on this thread, I'd say:

Button 0
Perez -10

#150 Dunc

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:46

I think the situation will be similar to 1993 at Williams. Button will, like Prost, be best over the season but Perez, like Hill, will turn out some good performances and get some wins.

If Button is ever going to get a second WDC it will be this season. He is the team leader at McLaren, he has the measure of the team, seems to have more confidence than ever before and is unlikely to have an inter-team battle.