"This is the type of silly nonsensical question I was just writing about in another post. Some (most!) drivers are, I believe, hustling and getting the max out of their cars - even JB sometimes! When I say I think JB could squeeze more, why should I believe everyone could? That's an idiotic argument. I think JB can squeeze more. And when you say "what realistic basis do you think that Jenson should be out-qualifying Alonso and Kimi, who are both top notch drivers, in a car which every piece of evidence suggests is weaker than their cars? Because that is what I am having trouble with...", well, perhaps (and careful now, don't spit your coffee all over your PC), just perhaps, I don't think the Macca was that bad compared to the Ferrari/Lotus (today). Or maybe FA or KR had shit quallys? - I don't care why they were there today or if they could have gone faster, they were just ahead of JB today and he didn't seem up for a bit of hustling. Next!"
Dude, seriously, take a step back and maybe you'll see completely miss the point here fella. Completely and utterly fail to grasp the very simple purpose of the questions. I get that you think JB can get more out and the others can't. I'm asking you to justify why you 'think' JB can squeeze more but that the others can't? You believe the others are hustling and getting the best out of the car - WHY? Answer that, you consistently won't. Why should JB be seen as not hustling and getting the max?
I am asking WHY you think JB isn't hustling and yet you think the others are. And you don't answer the question! You side-step it? Are you incapable of answering a direct question?
You roll in today and say 'typical example, JB if he'd tried harder, could have hustled more, could have pulled out another 3 tenths and beaten FA & KR.' I'm saying, WHY? Why do you feel that? What fact points you to that conclusion? There is just as much evidence that JB absolutely maxed out the car. i.e. zero. You haven't said anything other than you think KR, FA, etc are hustling, and you think JB isn't. Maybe he was hustling to the max to get so close to them in the first place? Thought of that? Maybe today, at a track he loves and always goes well at, he was absolutely pushing to the maximum, super motivated to be racing in front of his girlfriend's parents and in a country that is a second home to him?
Based on your posts today, it is just as valid for me to say "I believe JB maxed out the car, and I believe Alonso could have done 3 tenths better". Utterly pointless waste of time because no one cares what you believe, they want to hear logical well laid out and not circular arguments. My logical argument would be "JB maxed out the potential of the car because we know he goes well round Suzuka, beat his team mate, put in three laps of almost identical times, says he maxed the car, and had one of his smallest gaps to pole (in absolute terms) of the season; whereas I think Alonso could have done better because his team mate actually did do better". That is the opposite of your argument and your haven't laid out any arguments why you think that other than you think that. Completely lame.
You can't give any reason why you think he should have hustled more other than you feel that or it is your opinion! You don't wheel out any persuasive argument or data. You don't point to a specific race. Your posts are lazy and you don't do your research.
Check this out - gap to P1 from JB at every race this season.
Australia GP 2.9 Malaysian GP 3.5 Chinese GP 3 Bahrain GP No Time Spanish GP 0.6 Out in Q2, Q2 deficit Monaco GP 1.5 Canadian GP 1.9 Out in Q2, Q2 deficit British GP No Time German GP No time Hungarian GP 1.9 Out in Q2, Q2 deficit Belgian GP 2 Italian GP 4.3 Singapore GP 1.4 Korean GP 0.8 Japanese GP 0.9
This is me doing research. Per this, JB was closer to P1 in terms of time that any race this season, except Korea, in a car that hasn't been developed in 5 races.
Your whole argument boils down to the fact that you feel that JB could be doing better. With utterly nothing to back it up. You still give absolutely nothing. I get what your opinion is, as previously stated, now I'm asking for a logical explanation. And you don't have one.
"5) Yes, JB had a chance to start P8 or maybe P7 (or maybe not, maybe the 0.3 wasn't in the car). But all the other drivers there had a chance to qualify 0.3 seconds better (or maybe they didn't, maybe the 0.3 wasn't in the car). So how can you conclude this? Why do you think he didn't go for it?
This is almost the same question as 2). Isn't it? We'd have to ask him why he didn't go for it. Maybe he did and he made a silly mistake. Next!"
Dude I do not understand that you don't get this. I am asking you to justify / back up your opinion that he didn't go for it. You are answering a different question. I'm not asking what his motivation is, I'm asking what your evidence / support / event that causes you to think this / anything to back up this 'he didn't go for it' as anything other than your imagination? As far as I can see there is absolutely no reason to think that he didn't go for it. He ran in Q3, on soft tyres. In what way is this 'not going for it?' Clearly he went for it and he didn't make it, that is completely a different thing.
Please enlightenment as to why you think it is so obvious he didn't go for it?
What evidence, m'lord? Evidence in a case like this? Is JB better than KR? was Pele better than Maradona? Is butter better than marg? I could ask, if you disagree, what evidence there is to the contrary, apart from your guesses and feelings? Next!
I refer you to my previous point. You are nobody, I am nobody, our own opinions, guesses and feeling are of NO interest to anyone on this board. However, the reasoning and thought process behind that is the interesting thing; I am asking you for justification, background, you know, something to support some bold and controversial (and may I say it, ridiculous and controversial) statements.
Like I told you, I know he's better (or, he could be better); he's driven better in previous seasons. Re the second part of your question, imagine FA or SV or LH in the same car, if you think they'd be unable to get more out of it than JB you are more than a normal 'fan' and I can't help you any further; if you agree that they could probably squeeze more out of it, then we just disagree about how capable JB is (and what that actually means is I think he's better than you do, cos I think he should/could be nearer to where they'd be; you don't, you think he's at his absolute max now...) Next!
This is such a weak and ludicrous point, that is what I am trying to say. You are making a guesstimate of how good they would be in the same car, based on your guesstimate of how good the car is aligned with your guesstimate of how well JB is performing.
Every argument and opinion on F1 could be shown to be circular to some extent
This is 100% true. To some extent. Your argument is 'JB isn't having a good year because he's barely better than Perez, who isn't very good. Perez isn't very good because he's not good relative to JB who isn't having a good year. JB isn't having a good year because he's barely better than Perez, who isn't very good. Perez isn't very good because he's not good relative to JB who isn't having a good year. JB isn't having a good year because he's barely better than Perez, who isn't very good. Perez isn't very good because he's not good relative to JB who isn't having a good year. JB isn't having a good year because he's barely better than Perez, who isn't very good. Perez isn't very good because he's not good relative to JB who isn't having a good year. JB isn't having a good year because he's barely better than Perez, who isn't very good. Perez isn't very good because he's not good relative to JB who isn't having a good year.' Ad infinitum. Entirely circular.
Are you not understanding where people get frustration from? You don't give specific arguments; you side-stepped questions; you will never be specific; you won't give any research.
Edited by Treads, 12 October 2013 - 22:28.