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Norbert Haug to leave Mercedes


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#201 BoschKurve

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 15:45

Nothing with or against your posts buddy, but it seems Ross stole that March machinist job from you. You are so f**king bitter! :rotfl:


Nah...I just prefer to look at things from a different perspective instead of happily accepting whatever garbage the F1 media is shoveling at any given moment. It's not exactly a secret that the F1 media prefers to not rock the boat most of the time due to the fear they might lose those ever important credentials.

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#202 BoschKurve

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 15:50

The next one to fall isn’t Brawn, it’s Zetsche:

[url="http://jalopnik.com/5968926/mercedes-is-in-a-rage-volkswagen-goes-on-a-raid-and-aston-martin-throws-a-rave#13557532658212&{"type":"iframeUpdated","height":292}"]http://jalopnik.com/...in...ight":292}[/url]

Add that to the fact Chrysler is doing miracles under Sergio Marchionne (i.e. is actually a profit center for FIAT) and that McLaren is producing a car (the MP4-12C) that is competing directly against the SLS, using tooling and facilities largely financed by Daimler-Benz.

The Board cannot be pleased.

I agree, the Daimler Board is quite pissed at the moment.

One has to consider how annoyed they are at the F1 operation that was supposed to be this great marketing tool, and has done nothing other than to make Mercedes look incompetent.

Certainly Zetsche is in trouble because he has two high profile losing operations underneath him. But his contract is done at the end of 2013. The F1 season is up a little over a month prior. Perhaps we should take wagers on who lasts longer; Zetsche or Brawn.

#203 r4mses

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 17:36

I seriously doubt they waste a lot of time thinking about the SLS versus MP4-12C sales since the real money comes in through A, B, C, E, S, R, M etc. Classes. SLS is (imho) more or less just there for prestige, not to make big money.

#204 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 17:49

They also forget the 5 years they took to get the first Ferrari titles. Ok, anyone can argue that in those five years they have shown more competitiveness in any one of the years than Mercedes has shown in three years altogether. But again, nearly everybody forgot - or does not even know - by now, how very much different F1 was back then. Neither two of those teams were so very much crippled as Mercedes was in 2010.

How do you explain them being beaten by Sauber and Force India on track regulalry (if not in WCC)? At one point Jordans were only ahead of Minardis and had no budget either, Midland did not exactly shoehorn money into the team either! Similarly Sauber coped with loss of all manufacturer funding and their major sponsor to Mercedes !

Why did Haug not sign Maldonado or Perez to bring more money in to Mercedes team, instead of bringing an expensive driver out of retirement, for instance? Those extra millions may have been helpful, with the trust in Rosberg as the lead paid star.

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 17 December 2012 - 17:51.


#205 r4mses

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 18:00

[...]
Why did Haug not sign Maldonado or Perez to bring more money in to Mercedes team, instead of bringing an expensive driver out of retirement, for instance? Those extra millions may have been helpful, with the trust in Rosberg as the lead paid star.


Not sure if... Ó_ò

You're a German car manufacturer, well not just one, you're Mercedes Benz, and you got to choose between Michael Schumacher - who is not just seventime F1 world champion but also by far the most famous person in German motorsports and well known all over the world - and some nonames from Mexico and Venezuela respectively. You don't even spend the fracture of a second thinking. Not. Even. A. Fracture. Otherwise you're plain stupid or related to either of MAL/PER. :x



#206 TC3000

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 18:39

Not sure if... Ó_ò

You're a German car manufacturer, well not just one, you're Mercedes Benz, and you got to choose between Michael Schumacher - who is not just seventime F1 world champion but also by far the most famous person in German motorsports and well known all over the world - and some nonames from Mexico and Venezuela respectively. You don't even spend the fracture of a second thinking. Not. Even. A. Fracture. Otherwise you're plain stupid or related to either of MAL/PER. :x


Yes, it's a great plan & asset when it all goes to plan, and you win (at least regular races) otherwise,
as we have seen, it can turn into a curse for all involved.
I think V8Fireworks has a point in the way he looks at it.
At the time nobody had M.S. on the agenda, nobody was expecting him to come out of retirement, so signing someone else alongside Rosberg, would not have caused much uproar.
If you think, that Mercedes should employ two German drivers and are not convinced with Perez &/or Maldonado, it's a fair point, so they could have signed Hulkenberg for example.

By signing up Schumacher, they put a lot of pressure and spotlight onto themself, again great marketing move, but only if you can deliver on the promise.
With this skyhigh expectations, they have perhaps set themself up to fail, their was no place to hide, or take a more long term approach.
It was all - now.
Most people may have given them some credit, in the first year, P4 was not the end of the world, but it didn't got any better ( see WCC points score over the years), and the pressure internal and external mounting all the time.
Then AARAB pulling out as co-owner/shareholder, leaving Daimler with a far greater cost and risk exposure then initially planned.
etc. etc.

I'm not saying that the plan was bad in theory, but they failed to execute it in accordance to their own objectives/expectations.
They totally underestimated the possible down side, and don't really have a contegency plan or exit strategy.
Now, they keep rasing the stakes again with Hamilton, which most would see as one of the fastest drivers out there, and having Lauda saying publicy only the best will do. Sure for a company like Mercedes, this has to be the aim, but it exposes you to a far greater downside potential. Nothing but a WCD/WCC will do. While other can hang around and be content with solid results another year with less then P3 in the WCC and giving RBR,Ferrari and McLaren a solid run for their money, would be seen as failure again.

If you look at RBR, when they started out, they took it a bit more easy, giving them some more time and breathing space.
They took over Jaguar (P7 in WCC at the time) a midfield team, without any great expectations. They had two solid hands as drivers,
but again, nobody would expect any great things. If they won a race, it would have been a bonus, not a obligation.
THen they keep skipping away at it, making some changes, getting Newey on board, then when this was settled in, making some changes on the driver side etc. etc.

Compare this with Mercedes: Buying the current WDC/WCC team, sure some of the more informed fans would see, that things are
not as easy as the look, but for the "man on the street" it was the champion team, then get the most winniest driver of all time in the
car, and you know what the average punter would expect.
Fail to deliver on the promisse, and you are in for a hard time, people have little patience these days, fans, shareholders, boards & the press.

Edited by TC3000, 17 December 2012 - 18:47.


#207 Number62

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 19:06

He must be the luckiest man in the world.

Has any other machinist managed to go from that to running a F1 team?

Life must be lonely these days for Ross without Maximilian's protection.


The harder he works the luckier he gets hey?

#208 BoschKurve

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 19:48

The harder he works the luckier he gets hey?


More like the inverse.

Don't you marvel at his good fortune of buying out the remnants of Honda for pennies on the dollar. Then getting a favorable ruling that allowed "his" car to run roughshod for a few months, which was all that was needed to put a big enough points gap between Brawn and everyone else. Then deciding to close up shop and nailing the two largest catches of his life in Haug and Zetsche, thus allowing him to have a 9 figure bank account was another stroke of good fortune.

I think Ross should title his "tell-all" autobiography something like, Hooked: How I Caught the Biggest Fish in F1 (With a little help from my friends) with a foreword by Max Mosley.

Max's foreword could start something like this...

I first met Ross in 1978 at the milling machine in March's Bicester facilities. What struck me most about Ross was his intent focus on the task at hand. He was hard at work at putting some holes in a piece of sheet metal for one of our cars. But, unbeknownst to me at the time, that intent focus hid a different side of him that few have ever known. Ross never missed a chance to be friendly to me and to offer to assist me with any work that I needed help with. It was then that I knew he would be asset for me down the road. His singular focus was what led me to appoint him as my personal eyes and ears at my preferred winning team at Benetton, and then Ferrari...

Or is that too much...?

#209 Number62

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 20:35

More like the inverse.

Don't you marvel at his good fortune of buying out the remnants of Honda for pennies on the dollar. Then getting a favorable ruling that allowed "his" car to run roughshod for a few months, which was all that was needed to put a big enough points gap between Brawn and everyone else. Then deciding to close up shop and nailing the two largest catches of his life in Haug and Zetsche, thus allowing him to have a 9 figure bank account was another stroke of good fortune.

I think Ross should title his "tell-all" autobiography something like, Hooked: How I Caught the Biggest Fish in F1 (With a little help from my friends) with a foreword by Max Mosley.

Max's foreword could start something like this...

I first met Ross in 1978 at the milling machine in March's Bicester facilities. What struck me most about Ross was his intent focus on the task at hand. He was hard at work at putting some holes in a piece of sheet metal for one of our cars. But, unbeknownst to me at the time, that intent focus hid a different side of him that few have ever known. Ross never missed a chance to be friendly to me and to offer to assist me with any work that I needed help with. It was then that I knew he would be asset for me down the road. His singular focus was what led me to appoint him as my personal eyes and ears at my preferred winning team at Benetton, and then Ferrari...

Or is that too much...?


No. I assume that the 34 years between the milling machine and the Merc deal were filled with hard work, commitment and desire.


#210 BoschKurve

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 20:44

No. I assume that the 34 years between the milling machine and the Merc deal were filled with hard work, commitment and desire.


I'm not really sure what he was technically directing at Benetton. It's always been clear Flav and Tom were calling the shots there anyway.

#211 Clatter

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 20:48

I'm not really sure what he was technically directing at Benetton. It's always been clear Flav and Tom were calling the shots there anyway.


I'm really not sure why you would be questioning his role. If it were really others that were calling all the shots then I'm sure MS would be fully aware of that and would not have pushed to get him to Ferrari.

#212 growers

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 21:04

This is just Tyrrell/BAR/Honda/Brawn GP with a silver paint job.

You should be grateful, Merc would still be fighting with Caterham and Marussia if they'd tried to do it in house.

#213 Szoelloe

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 21:24

How do you explain them being beaten by Sauber and Force India on track regulalry (if not in WCC)? At one point Jordans were only ahead of Minardis and had no budget either, Midland did not exactly shoehorn money into the team either! Similarly Sauber coped with loss of all manufacturer funding and their major sponsor to Mercedes !

Why did Haug not sign Maldonado or Perez to bring more money in to Mercedes team, instead of bringing an expensive driver out of retirement, for instance? Those extra millions may have been helpful, with the trust in Rosberg as the lead paid star.


Maldonado or Perez in 2010? Seriously? How do the drivers come into this anyway?? They obviously don't give a flying fxxx about money. They invested hugely after 2011. It is entirely possible that it was Haug who was naively thinking that the rest of the top teams will live up to the RRA agreement, and downsize to the obligatory levels. We all know that did not happen, to the extent that Red Bull has spent a mind-blowing 630 million in 2012. I hardly think Ross Brawn has not warned them that this is not going to work, his history just indicates the opposite. So what happened? They had to start restructure and resource re-grouping, recruiting, investing, more than one year late. We are speaking of ONLY three seasons, out of which the first is a relative miracle, considering a crippled and downsized team, one year early to the other top teams. Considering this year, if you remember, Brawn has ditched the 2008 Honda without a blink of the eye, to make a push for the 2009 car, and half the world was working on the 2009 Honda, AKA BGP01, we know how that payed off. I suspect he ditched the W03 quite early this year, for similar, although obligatory reasons, and by now, half the world is working at Brackley too. They have a new engineering staff, who had NOTHING to do with this car, basically. The last dinosaur who had anything meaningful to do with the W03, Bigois, has been shown the door mid-season. That, you must agree, is not something that helps in-season development process, especially if the car has aero-problems, and 'the' Bigois was aero chief. All MS and NR has done from mid-season was use the races to test for 2013 and 2014. By the end of the season, they even said so. It was pretty frustrating, yes. It pissed me off too. Was it a mess? Yessssss sirrrr, it was. As i said several times before, communication was not the strongest point of Merc so far. Hindsight is always wise though. If you add to all this some teething problems between the new staff and the old, and spice it all with the corporate universe, you get Haug going down, possibly not the last one either.

anyway, sorry for the rant, really, nothing personal, just came out in a breath. :)


#214 Sakae

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 21:56

Good one too.

#215 BoschKurve

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 22:30

You should be grateful, Merc would still be fighting with Caterham and Marussia if they'd tried to do it in house.


I fear they might have been better off starting at the bottom since it might have instilled a greater sense of urgency in those working in Brackley.

#216 BoschKurve

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 22:35

Szoelloe-

I can't imagine Haug would have been naive about teams living up to the RRA because he's been around F1 long enough. Given all the time he spent with Ron Dennis, he had to know the general deceit half the teams are capable of.

#217 Tombstone

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 23:19

Szoelloe-

I can't imagine Haug would have been naive about teams living up to the RRA because he's been around F1 long enough. Given all the time he spent with Ron Dennis, he had to know the general deceit half the teams are capable of.


Surprised it took so long for a pathetic dig at Ron Dennis to appear.

#218 BoschKurve

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 00:03

Surprised it took so long for a pathetic dig at Ron Dennis to appear.


At the Frankfurt Auto Show in 1993 (September I believe) Ron had a handshake deal with Bob Lutz for McLaren to use Lambo V12's for the 1994 season.

So, while you may want to pretend deceit doesn't exist in F1, I'm most certainly going to remind you it does.

#219 loki

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 00:58

And do you really think Flav was the only one to ever do underhanded things in F1?



Yeah, it's not like there's a history of kickbacks, shady business dealings, special rules for one team with regards to purse disbursement or any lurid S&M tales...

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#220 Sakae

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:56

A few days old, but relevant to topic, as it touches on relationship between two men:

DW | 13.12.2012 | Dr. Zetsche

"For more than 20 years, Norbert Haug was the face of the Mercedes-Benz presence in motor sport," Zetsche said. "For me, he put his stamp on an entire era, and, as a highlight, he was responsible for the successful comeback of the Silver Arrows to Formula One."


DW on Haug's departure

#221 Tombstone

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:12

At the Frankfurt Auto Show in 1993 (September I believe) Ron had a handshake deal with Bob Lutz for McLaren to use Lambo V12's for the 1994 season.

So, while you may want to pretend deceit doesn't exist in F1, I'm most certainly going to remind you it does.



Straw man attack. Classy.

#222 David1976

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:43

Haug leaving may be a good thing despite him being a great man and hugely influential in Mercedes past successes.

The fact is Mercedes have not done as well as they should have and in all top companies that responsibility falls on the top man.

Haug may well have been excellent in years gone by but may not be the right man in today's F1?

Good luck to his replacement.

#223 Sakae

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 12:15

Haug leaving may be a good thing despite him being a great man and hugely influential in Mercedes past successes.

The fact is Mercedes have not done as well as they should have and in all top companies that responsibility falls on the top man.

Obviously they haven't heard of it at some other famous front teams... :D

#224 BoschKurve

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 14:49

Straw man attack. Classy.


Well, you did completely miss what I said in the original post...so....

#225 BoschKurve

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 14:51

Yeah, it's not like there's a history of kickbacks, shady business dealings, special rules for one team with regards to purse disbursement or any lurid S&M tales...


Good heavens!

Perish the thought that things are not innocent! :eek:

#226 SpaMaster

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 16:44

Haug leaving may be a good thing despite him being a great man and hugely influential in Mercedes past successes.

The fact is Mercedes have not done as well as they should have and in all top companies that responsibility falls on the top man.

Ross Brawn is the main person in-charge of the Mercedes F1 team. If someone has to take the responsibility first, it must be him. That's what I don't understand. Why does Haug go first in the name of responsibility? May be he is more dispensable, and someone needs to be made a scapegoat, rather than the real purpose of responsibility? Well, that's how corporate world operate both in success and failure.

#227 TC3000

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 17:47

Ross Brawn is the main person in-charge of the Mercedes F1 team. If someone has to take the responsibility first, it must be him. That's what I don't understand. Why does Haug go first in the name of responsibility? May be he is more dispensable, and someone needs to be made a scapegoat, rather than the real purpose of responsibility? Well, that's how corporate world operate both in success and failure.


That may very well be the case, but does not matter from the Daimler board perspective.
Haug, was "Vice President Mercedes-Benz Motorsport", a director on the Daimler board, and his resort was Motorsport.
Whatever happens in his resort, will be his responsibility. He appointed Brawn to get the job done, if Brawn does not get the job done, then it falls back to Haug, because Brawn was "his man".
As things don't go the way they were intended to go, Haug's position was under pressure.
He may took the fall, to buy his men (Brawn, Fry etc.) and his idea (MGP) a bit more time to come good, or he maybe just got out before the whole thing blows up - that is open to speculation.

It's worth to remember, that Zetschke's contract as CEO of Daimler runs out next year, and in the moment things don't look too good.
So his head is on the block too, so to speak. F1 may not be his biggest hassle, but it's very much in the public face, so any bad news PR does not help.

Haug got Daimler committed to that adventurer, he laid out the plan, set the goals defined the roadmap and milestones (time frame, results, costs, risk, exit strategy etc.). Based on his proposal, he got the o.k. from the board to go ahead.
After this he is on his own. If he fails to hit his targets, whatever they may be, he is in hot water.
Who down the line is to blame, Brawn, the drivers, the windtunnel, the head aerodynamist, the engineers, the tea lady etc. , does not matter for the Daimler board.
It's Haug's job to get the job done, and best on time and within budget.
If he set himself unrealistic targets, that's bad, but who is to blame for it?

Edited by TC3000, 18 December 2012 - 17:49.


#228 Sakae

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 17:53

Ross Brawn is the main person in-charge of the Mercedes F1 team. If someone has to take the responsibility first, it must be him. That's what I don't understand. Why does Haug go first in the name of responsibility? May be he is more dispensable, and someone needs to be made a scapegoat, rather than the real purpose of responsibility? Well, that's how corporate world operate both in success and failure.

Maybe Haug feels guilty that he has not provided F1 team with conditions ensuring stable and progressive development. He touches on couple of factors, but then he says - I do not want to make excuses, which, in certain way, is an honorable thing, mostly forgotten these days where buck really stops. Still, I feel, that we do not know full story.

Edited by Sakae, 18 December 2012 - 17:55.


#229 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 18:17

Ross Brawn is the main person in-charge of the Mercedes F1 team. If someone has to take the responsibility first, it must be him. That's what I don't understand. Why does Haug go first in the name of responsibility? May be he is more dispensable, and someone needs to be made a scapegoat, rather than the real purpose of responsibility? Well, that's how corporate world operate both in success and failure.


Welcome to the corporate world. Somebody had to go. Haug's own words, if I am correct. By moving Brawn, they will do more harm than good now. That should be kind of obvious to anybody atm. So he went down. That's all. I know no team that would have moved Brawn in this situation. I know several that would have not moved Haug, though.

#230 Tombstone

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 19:22

Well, you did completely miss what I said in the original post...so....


No, I didn't. You accused me of something I did not state. Apologise.

#231 BoschKurve

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 19:33

No, I didn't. You accused me of something I did not state. Apologise.


Please re-read what was said.

I never accused you of saying anything. I merely pointed out to you that my "dig" at Ron Dennis was hardly a dig, as he has been involved in plenty of deceit over the years. I gave a specific example regarding Ron's deceit. Not to mention that Haug would have been well aware of all sorts of things that went on with top teams over the years, hence my insistence that Haug couldn't really be that naive regarding the workings of F1 given how much time he spent involved with it. So, there won't be an apology, because there isn't actually anything to apologize for.

#232 Craven Morehead

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 20:06

I am sad to see Haug go. I'm sure he will enjoy his retirement from the pirranha club.

#233 jjcale

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 20:10

Thanks guys for pointing out that Dr Z's current contract expires next year... and for pointing out that BMW cleaned their clock in DTM - now it finally makes sense.... cause from a purely F1 point of view, I couldnt see it.

I'll now leave this thread to those who think that it is a thread about Ross...

Edited by jjcale, 18 December 2012 - 20:12.


#234 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 20:28

Thanks guys for pointing out that Dr Z's current contract expires next year... and for pointing out that BMW cleaned their clock in DTM - now it finally makes sense.... cause from a purely F1 point of view, I couldnt see it.

I'll now leave this thread to those who think that it is a thread about Ross...


Did you think it is?


#235 jjcale

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 20:39

Did you think it is?


:confused:

No ....

#236 BoschKurve

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 20:42

Did you think it is?


Best as I can figure Ross and the Hutt go together.

Brawn's perpetual underachievers in Brackley pretty much helped to seal Norbert's fate. The good news is that if old Norbert is worth his weight in anything besides bratwurst, other teams --whether they be F1 teams or involved in other series-- will be looking to sign him.

#237 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 20:42

:confused:

No ....


Oh. Maybe I was too abrupt. Meant no harm. I get it now. :)


#238 packapoo

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:03

That may very well be the case, but does not matter from the Daimler board perspective.
Haug, was "Vice President Mercedes-Benz Motorsport", a director on the Daimler board, and his resort was Motorsport.
Whatever happens in his resort, will be his responsibility. He appointed Brawn to get the job done, if Brawn does not get the job done, then it falls back to Haug, because Brawn was "his man".
As things don't go the way they were intended to go, Haug's position was under pressure.
He may took the fall, to buy his men (Brawn, Fry etc.) and his idea (MGP) a bit more time to come good, or he maybe just got out before the whole thing blows up - that is open to speculation.

It's worth to remember, that Zetschke's contract as CEO of Daimler runs out next year, and in the moment things don't look too good.
So his head is on the block too, so to speak. F1 may not be his biggest hassle, but it's very much in the public face, so any bad news PR does not help.

Haug got Daimler committed to that adventurer, he laid out the plan, set the goals defined the roadmap and milestones (time frame, results, costs, risk, exit strategy etc.). Based on his proposal, he got the o.k. from the board to go ahead.
After this he is on his own. If he fails to hit his targets, whatever they may be, he is in hot water.
Who down the line is to blame, Brawn, the drivers, the windtunnel, the head aerodynamist, the engineers, the tea lady etc. , does not matter for the Daimler board.
It's Haug's job to get the job done, and best on time and within budget.
If he set himself unrealistic targets, that's bad, but who is to blame for it?


Thank you TC3000. Thank you.
So clear and simple.
Why it's been so difficult for the esteemed posters here to grasp is beyond my, and obviously their, comprehension.
You've sussed it and I'm grateful.


#239 Andy35

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:43

He must be the luckiest man in the world.

Has any other machinist managed to go from that to running a F1 team?

Life must be lonely these days for Ross without Maximilian's protection.


Sir Frank Williams used to sell tins of baked beans , so presumably he was even luckier.



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#240 Timstr11

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 14:49

German press are saying Haug's F1 role will not be replaced.
Makes sense as the Brawn/Lauda combination will now liaise with the Mercedes board (used to be Brawn/Haug).

There will only be a new DTM boss.

#241 BoschKurve

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 16:41

German press are saying Haug's F1 role will not be replaced.
Makes sense as the Brawn/Lauda combination will now liaise with the Mercedes board (used to be Brawn/Haug).

There will only be a new DTM boss.


This should be quite interesting once 2013 is under way. I wonder if Lauda will be throwing people under the bus on RTL.

#242 ayali

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 17:14

German press are saying Haug's F1 role will not be replaced.
Makes sense as the Brawn/Lauda combination will now liaise with the Mercedes board (used to be Brawn/Haug).

There will only be a new DTM boss.

I've read that too but OTOH various papers have Gerhard Berger and even Christian Horner as successors that Mercedes looked at.

Hardly criticism anywhere on Haug though and none for Ross either except from Haug's pal HJ Stuck.


#243 BoschKurve

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 17:24

I've read that too but OTOH various papers have Gerhard Berger and even Christian Horner as successors that Mercedes looked at.

Hardly criticism anywhere on Haug though and none for Ross either except from Haug's pal HJ Stuck.


That's what I find curious about the entire situation at Mercedes, and it's also why I happen to so vocal regarding Haug and Brawn.

People seem to be unwilling to seriously assess the situation with these team from the media down to the fans. Why this is, I am not sure as this incarnation of the Silver Arrows F1 team has not done anything within the last three seasons that should even absolve them of criticism. This team has been a colossal disaster given what the expectations were going into the 2010 season. There's just promises that "next year" will be the year everything comes together. It's what people will start saying if 2013 is as dismal as 2012 was.

With Haug gone now this could be a potential big step forward. I still feel Brawn needs to go as well, since all of this has transpired under his watch too.

#244 Clatter

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 17:30

That's what I find curious about the entire situation at Mercedes, and it's also why I happen to so vocal regarding Haug and Brawn.

People seem to be unwilling to seriously assess the situation with these team from the media down to the fans. Why this is, I am not sure as this incarnation of the Silver Arrows F1 team has not done anything within the last three seasons that should even absolve them of criticism. This team has been a colossal disaster given what the expectations were going into the 2010 season. There's just promises that "next year" will be the year everything comes together. It's what people will start saying if 2013 is as dismal as 2012 was.

With Haug gone now this could be a potential big step forward. I still feel Brawn needs to go as well, since all of this has transpired under his watch too.


I honestly see no reason to think this. He might be the one that the board hangs the blame on, but he is not the one designing and building the cars, and I don't see people flocking to Merc just because Lauda is there.


#245 BoschKurve

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 17:54

I honestly see no reason to think this. He might be the one that the board hangs the blame on, but he is not the one designing and building the cars, and I don't see people flocking to Merc just because Lauda is there.


With Haug gone, it takes away perhaps the only obstacle to removing Brawn if need be.

What Mercedes problem is based on a few things I've heard is an organizational problem. There are too many chefs in the kitchen so to speak. Given how ego-driven engineers can be, there needs to be someone laying the law down in one form, or another. There must be specific direction this team has to go, and needs to be led to. I believe leadership is quite non-existent here.

As far as Lauda goes, if I worked for MGP, with Lauda's arrival, I'd be looking for a new job right now. I don't trust Lauda, and feel he will do more harm than good.

#246 Sakae

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 17:55

Haug's job being divided is really not a such big surprise and it was anticipated that more than one brain is needed to handle workload Haug carried. Anyone who tried to work 110+ hrs/week for extended period of time knows for how long it is possible before everything turns south on you.

#247 Rasputin

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 18:12

This is just a dress rehearsal for the purge that will come, all this good for nothing pre-owned and way past their best before date individuals, like Brawn, Fry, Costa, Willis etc.

Edited by Rasputin, 19 December 2012 - 18:14.


#248 BoschKurve

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 19:11

This is just a dress rehearsal for the purge that will come, all this good for nothing pre-owned and way past their best before date individuals, like Brawn, Fry, Costa, Willis etc.


I do imagine Zetsche stays up at night sharpening his proverbial axe.

In my estimates, should he find out at any point during the F1 season that he is not wanted back by the Daimler board in 2014, I suppose he will be taking down a few of the F1 team's members with him.

#249 Rasputin

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 19:14

I do imagine Zetsche stays up at night sharpening his proverbial axe.

...

More like looking for the dullest spoon in MrsZ's kitchen.


#250 BoschKurve

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 19:21

Brawn's message to Michael over the radio in Singapore would be his dying words as Zetsche takes him down.

"What are you doing! What are you doing!"