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Who *deserved* to be a World Champion?


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#51 Nemo1965

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 23:29


I think Didier Pironi is the best candidate, however good Moss and Ickx were. Pironi was leading the championship in 1982, had the best car, had a turbo (whereas the later champ Rosberg had not and was rather dependent on technical failures of his opponents). Ofcourse his accident could have been avoided, why try to set the fastest times in heavy downpour when you are leading the championship.

Moss is a difficult one. I gather from books that he often spoilt his chances by either a. wanting to win with a british car b. swapping parts of cars around which seriously hindered the reliability of his machinery.

Reuteman was, ofcourse, leading the championship in 1981, was on pole for the last race and then, during the race, disappeared (I believe he finished 10th?). I read quite a few Argentinian sources who claim Reuteman was sabotaged by Frank Williams, but I can't still believe that.





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#52 as65p

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 23:37

More than one driver can be deserving of the championship in the same year. Only one can win it though.


:up:

I would add that whoever wins it, deserves it.

#53 Mila

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 23:57

Peter Collins.



#54 tifosi

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 00:45

Chris Amon


+1 :up:

#55 InfectedPumpkin

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 07:44

:up:

I would add that whoever wins it, deserves it.


So let's there is driver who is terrible. Literally TERRIBLE. He is driving for team XXX in 2013. Always last in quali and race. His teammate is always faster than him in quali for 2 sec per lap. Than that terrible driver changed his team for team YYY for 2014 and won championship because of SUPERB car (his teammate in YYY didnt won because was rookie and has bad luck, although he was always faster than TERRIBLE driver, but had bad luck [puncture, engine etc.]).

So you think that TERRIBLE driver deserved it?

I think not.

Edited by InfectedPumpkin, 22 December 2012 - 07:44.


#56 Dolph

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:41

So let's there is driver who is terrible. Literally TERRIBLE. He is driving for team XXX in 2013. Always last in quali and race. His teammate is always faster than him in quali for 2 sec per lap. Than that terrible driver changed his team for team YYY for 2014 and won championship because of SUPERB car (his teammate in YYY didnt won because was rookie and has bad luck, although he was always faster than TERRIBLE driver, but had bad luck [puncture, engine etc.]).

So you think that TERRIBLE driver deserved it?

I think not.


What?

#57 britishtrident

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 14:20

Chris Amon zero wins --- he was unlucky enough to drive for Ferrari when they were in thier in the wilderness decade.

Edited by britishtrident, 22 December 2012 - 14:20.


#58 Group B

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 16:50

So let's there is driver who is terrible. Literally TERRIBLE. He is driving for team XXX in 2013. Always last in quali and race. His teammate is always faster than him in quali for 2 sec per lap. Than that terrible driver changed his team for team YYY for 2014 and won championship because of SUPERB car (his teammate in YYY didnt won because was rookie and has bad luck, although he was always faster than TERRIBLE driver, but had bad luck [puncture, engine etc.]).

So you think that TERRIBLE driver deserved it?

I think not.

If he was that terrible he wouldn't win it, great car or not. At the time I thought Damon was terrible, but with the wisdom of passing years I've realised he was a very decent driver, even if not as good as Michael.

#59 Bloggsworth

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 17:11

Jenson Button...

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#60 MP422

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 21:22

If they deserved to be world champions, they would be world champions.


I agree.

#61 Longtimefan

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 14:24

If they deserved to be world champions, they would be world champions.

Really?

If it wasnt for badly installed Armco at Watkins Glen, Francois Cevert would probably be champion.



#62 manmower

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 17:36


More than one driver can be deserving of the championship in the same year. Only one can win it though.

:up:

I would add that whoever wins it, deserves it.

I suppose I'm okay with this combination. Saying Moss ought to have won 1958 over Hawthorn just rubbed me the wrong way I guess. Maybe it's just me but I think Hawthorn is maligned enough as it is and it's not like he would have had another chance after the 1958 season if you know what I mean. I mean, people are apparently prepared to play down the importance of the WDC because Moss never won it. There's certainly no need to take away Hawthorn's then.

Anyway, if I could make one tweak to F1 history I would have liked to see Senna win 1989 and Prost 1990. Seems fair, even though it would of course have made Prost the first Ferrari champion since Scheckter, it would go a long way towards erasing the uglier side of their rivalry.

#63 Claudius

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 20:20

:up:

I would add that whoever wins it, deserves it.

I suppose I'm okay with this combination. Saying Moss ought to have won 1958 over Hawthorn just rubbed me the wrong way I guess. Maybe it's just me but I think Hawthorn is maligned enough as it is and it's not like he would have had another chance after the 1958 season if you know what I mean. I mean, people are apparently prepared to play down the importance of the WDC because Moss never won it. There's certainly no need to take away Hawthorn's then.

Anyway, if I could make one tweak to F1 history I would have liked to see Senna win 1989 and Prost 1990. Seems fair, even though it would of course have made Prost the first Ferrari champion since Scheckter, it would go a long way towards erasing the uglier side of their rivalry.


I agree. That would have been fair.


#64 Mauseri

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 00:46

So let's there is driver who is terrible. Literally TERRIBLE. He is driving for team XXX in 2013. Always last in quali and race. His teammate is always faster than him in quali for 2 sec per lap. Than that terrible driver changed his team for team YYY for 2014 and won championship because of SUPERB car (his teammate in YYY didnt won because was rookie and has bad luck, although he was always faster than TERRIBLE driver, but had bad luck [puncture, engine etc.]).

So you think that TERRIBLE driver deserved it?

I think not.

There are other drivers and teams. Terrible driver would not win it. Certain amount of speed and consistency is needed. Championships are not won merely on luck.

#65 goldenboy

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 00:58

If they deserved to be world champions, they would be world champions.

definately do not agree with this, in particular with the previous generations.

Moss
Peterson

Edited by goldenboy, 25 December 2012 - 01:00.


#66 teejay

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 04:43

Poor Massa had done more than enough though in 2008 to be wdc. Six wins (more than anyone else that year) and only lost the title due to a corrupted race in Singapore. If the proper thing was done and the Singapore results are thrown out Massa is champ. I suppose he was 'champ' for 15 seconds but that just rubs salt into the wound if it were me.


All Singapore did was right the wrongs of Spa.

#67 Kingshark

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 00:32

Chris Amon did not even manage to win a single race, let alone a championship. Overrated driver IMO. Surely it could not all have been bad luck?

#68 Winter98

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:49

Gilles.

#69 ensign14

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 09:29

Chris Amon did not even manage to win a single race, let alone a championship. Overrated driver IMO. Surely it could not all have been bad luck?

Remember they only had half the races then, and half the reliability. I think four times he was a handful of miles away from winning. Plus he had a couple of close seconds behind unexpected winners.

His main problem was leaving Ferrari at their nadir. Had he stayed on for 1970 he would have had a handful of wins and maybe the title that year. And even leaving March in 1970 was probably a mistake; the 1971 kit was better than the Matra, and he might have stopped the team going down the 721X blind alley.

#70 Taxi

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 13:05

Ronnie Peterson, Moss, and maybe even David Coutlhard [I'm sure he would be a serious contender in 1996 had he stayed at Williams].

#71 PayasYouRace

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 13:50

Now there's a what if that isn't brought up much. DC vs. Damon at Williams in 1996. That would have been a good fight.

#72 jj2728

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 14:01

Chris Amon did not even manage to win a single race, let alone a championship. Overrated driver IMO. Surely it could not all have been bad luck?


Where would you like for me to start?

#73 Taxi

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 14:03

I'm sure David would have been quite hard to beat in 1996. And in 1997/2001 he bested the very good Mika Hakkinen. And beated marginaly Kimi in 2002. And he managed to win twice at Monaco. Had he been a bit luckier with his team mates [3 world champions] he could have been world champion.

#74 Anderis

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 14:25

Chris Amon did not even manage to win a single race, let alone a championship. Overrated driver IMO. Surely it could not all have been bad luck?

5 pole positions, 3 fastest laps, 11 podiums and 183 laps led. Doesn't seem to be justice that he didn't manage to win a single race.

#75 jj2728

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 18:11

5 pole positions, 3 fastest laps, 11 podiums and 183 laps led. Doesn't seem to be justice that he didn't manage to win a single race.


In 1967, '68 and '69 he had 4 certain victories snatched away because his Ferrari broke.

#76 H2H

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 18:18

I'm sure David would have been quite hard to beat in 1996. And in 1997/2001 he bested the very good Mika Hakkinen. And beated marginaly Kimi in 2002. And he managed to win twice at Monaco. Had he been a bit luckier with his team mates [3 world champions] he could have been world champion.


I agree with you, David is arguably a bit overlooked in this regard.

#77 smoothcrim

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 10:22

You have to be very strong mentally to win a WDC,most wilt under the pressure.

I think Reuterman and Webber are very similar characters,blisteringly quick most days,but when the chips are down and the pressure is on for the biggest prize they didnt have the mental strength to finish the job.

Some have been lucky to win a WDC,others unlucky,but most simply werent good enough.



#78 ali_M

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:11

You have to be very strong mentally to win a WDC,most wilt under the pressure.

I think Reuterman and Webber are very similar characters,blisteringly quick most days,but when the chips are down and the pressure is on for the biggest prize they didnt have the mental strength to finish the job.

Some have been lucky to win a WDC,others unlucky,but most simply werent good enough.


:up: :up: :up: :up:

The overwhelming majority were not good enough, I agree. There are so many who had hype surrounding them and once put in a championship winning position, someone else comes along and takes it from them or they're just not in the fight at all, much to the disappointment of those who expected better. Many would be in denial and find all sorts of excuses for it though, just as there'll be many with reasons for why driver X didn't deserve a championship. Major sour grapes chatter if you ask me.