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Kimi Vs Romain 2013


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Poll: Who will finish ahead in 2013, Kimi, or Romain ?. (428 member(s) have cast votes)

Who will finish ahead in 2013, Kimi, or Romain ?.

  1. Kimi (391 votes [91.36%])

    Percentage of vote: 91.36%

  2. Romain (37 votes [8.64%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.64%

Who will get the first win, Kimi, or Romain ?.

  1. Kimi (377 votes [88.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 88.08%

  2. Romain (51 votes [11.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.92%

Will Romain improve, or will he still have problems ?.

  1. Yes, he'll improve. (282 votes [65.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 65.89%

  2. No, he'll still have problems. (146 votes [34.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.11%

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#1 swerved

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 20:13

So, now we know that this pairing is retained, which of these two will give the best account of themselves, I'll start with my own appraisal of this last seasons comparisons.


"I've had a chuckle at some of the quotes as well, When the results are in, and the fat lady has done the thing with her vocal chords i like looking back on threads like these, just to get a feel for how the reality of things might differ from the expectations, this thread reminded me of the first "Button to McLaren" thread. Here are a few that made me chuckle. I'll start with a quote of my own, since that one also proved to be incorrect.


"I've already said that Grosjean wont be a pushover"


"Imo a lot of people thinks Kimi will beat Grosjean, and I have the feeling Grosjean is not only going to beat Kimi but destroy him."

"Imo Grosjean will be the "rookie of the year" (well, despite being Alonso team mate for me he´s still a rookie), and he will clearly overpace Kimi. He has the talent to be the new "Alain Prost"."

"Great thing is, qualifying has never been his specialty. He's a better racer than qualifier, much like Lewis" <--Grosjean, btw, just in case anyones wondering.

"and Kimi is about 7 years past his use by date, so I think Romain will surprise a lot of people."

"Im going to stick my neck out and say that Grosjean will finish above Kimi in the wdc. There i said it"

"My opinion is that Grosjean has been, is and will be better, and I feel the case for this is pretty strong."

"Lotus should focus to Romain, he is the future for them. Younger, faster, cheaper contract. Once he gets consistent, he is money."

"No matter what happened today, at the end of the year, Grosjean will most likely be ahead of Raikkonen in the standings. Now he is clearly the faster driver of the two."

"Actually my bet is Romain taking the first win if it ever happens. There is just so much bad luck that this guy can take on 1st lap incidents.. Kimi even if he qualifies 5 he goes back after lap 1, and that is not how you win a race with this highly competitive grid."


"Luckaly Grosjean is such a massive talent and will have more bright races ahead of him. The results will speak for themselves."*

*Not bolded in original quote.


So, there's a little look back at peoples instincts, feelings, expectations and predictions, and as pointed out, the results certainly do speak for themselves.

Points KR 207
RG 96

Wins KR 1
RG 0


Races Completed KR All 20
RG 12/20 (12/19 If you dont count his self inflicted Ban)


Points scoring positions KR 19/20
RG 10/20

Podiums KR 7
RG 3



There we have it, now, as i said somewhere around the beginning of this thread, I quite like Romain, or rather, i did, I liked his enthusiasm, his openness and approachability, and of course, the flashes of real racer that he occasionally showed, a couple of times this season though, he's shown a tendency to either blame others for his own mistake, or try and downplay/rationalise his own errors, this, like some of the quotes above, is something of a "feeling", but i sense a subtle change in his character.

When Kimi overdid it and spun in qualifying his answer to the question "What happened", was simply "I spun", not "I spun because of the tyres" or "I spun because of a distraction", just a straightforward admittance that he spun, similarly, when Romain was outqualifying him he simply said "Qualifying isn't going/didn't go as i wanted, Romain is faster" and i just get the sense that Romain is more reluctant to accept responsibility for his own shortcomings.

I feel he has let the team down, they had a great chance for 3rd in WCC, and the extra money that that would bring which would obviously help in the development race, imo if the team aren't looking closely at replacing him, then they should be.

Kimi has scored more than double Romains points, the only other 2 drivers to have done so are a 2 and 3 times WDC, Kimi has finished ahead of both McLarens, one Red Bull and one Ferrari, Romain has finished behind both McLarens, both Red Bulls, and both Ferrari's.

I think now we've seen the season completed, and the points tallied we can only deduce that Kimi has won this particular team battle, and he's done it quite convincingly."




Can Romain step up to the mark ? Can Kimi begin where he left off last season ?

My gut instinct is that once again Kimi's class will show through, as for Romain, who knows ?.

Edited by swerved, 18 December 2012 - 18:21.


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#2 sopa

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 20:19

Grosjean is a weird driver. I wouldn't be surprised if he rose to the occasion Massa 2008 style, improved consistency a lot and actually beat Kimi, because he is really that fast. Especially in qualifying. Like Massa was in his prime.

On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if he collapsed completely Sato 2005 style and destroyed his career.

We will see, what is gonna happen.

#3 Szoelloe

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 20:23

If the car will be competitive, he will be blitzed by KR again. He is fast, but IMHO not made for this sport mentally. I admit I was prejudiced pre season last year, and in a way I was wrong. I He is a nice chap. So I hope he proves me wrong.

#4 Rikhart

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 20:23

For 2013, I expect more of this:



I also expect the tremendous pressure of such a calamitous season to weigh too much for him to bear, thus being too conservative, and erasing his only redeeming quality, the flashes of speed he showed when he didnt crash into anything. On the other hand, like others here have said, he appears to not let anything fall on his shoulders, its always something else, never him that did any wrong.

Edited by Rikhart, 17 December 2012 - 20:27.


#5 Zava

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 20:30

I believe Romain is going to iron out his mistakes and do much less of them, and will be closer to Kimi, say, 80% of his points. quali to shift slightly in advance of Raikkönen though, if the second half of '12 is anything to go by.
edit: okay, 80% is a bit much, let's just go by 65-75%, depending on the amount of crashes. :p if he stays at his '12 level though, except another <50%, more like <40%.

Edited by Zava, 17 December 2012 - 21:02.


#6 Diderlo

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 20:35

Those quotes made me smirk. Some of those were from KR haters though, so those were expected.

I hope that Romain gets his head straight for the 2013 season and is more consistent. He has speed, obviously.

Edited by Diderlo, 17 December 2012 - 20:38.


#7 Vesuvius

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 20:39

Hopefully Romain will learn from his mistakes but Kimi will be even tougher to beat next year than he was this year so Kimi will come out top again.

#8 swerved

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 20:47

I think it will be an interesting season for both of them as it unfolds, I expect Kimi to gain some ground in terms of Qualifying, and thats really the only area where Romain did better from time to time, If Kimi can Qualify well i think Romain will have his work cut out even more so than last season, as he will have to bear the extra weight that must surely come from all the questions being raised, I really do think he's in the last chance saloon.

Conversely, Kimi finished on a relative high, and there's no reason for that not to continue, Thankfully he answered all of the questions asked last season, and Lotus seems to be a happy place for him, with good relationships developing, it seems as though they were pleasantly surprised with Kimi's achievements, to the extent that his bonus payments may have caused an unforseen problem, and in all probability unpleasantly surprised with Romains.

I must say i'm a little surprised that they've retained Romain, perhaps there was no-one they considered better available, and they have more info than us, On the subject of favouritism i can of course see why the question arises, though as stated elsewhere, I haven't really seen any evidence of it, I'm not convinced that his being retained is such evidence, and we shouldn't forget that whilst Boullier is part of his management team, Lopez calls the shots and pays the bills.

#9 ZZei

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 21:06

As Slade said, raikkonen only had problems against grosjean when he couldnt get the front tires up to temperature in these new tires that grosjean had tons of experince. That was his weakness, if one can say so even in ferrari. That plus a few mistakes in qualies and people thought grosjean was faster. Not that grosjean isnt fast, but he didnt exactly set the world on fire either.

#10 Trust

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 21:15

Have a feeling this battle will be tougher next year with both drivers on higher level than this year. Just hope E21 uses his tyres much better next year. Too conservative will hurt both drivers.

#11 Dolph

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 21:19

Where the hell is my "RG will be future double WDC" quote? :mad:

#12 Dolph

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 21:23

I'm glad Lotus found enough money to retain the services of the Champion of Champions :clap:

#13 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 21:31

I'm predicting a similar scenario to last season. Grosjean will be much quicker on one lap pace, but lacks the racing instinct which Kimi possesses very well. Though, Grosjean will mature more and not make that many mistakes. He can't afford to, because I can see Lotus dropping him instantly if he has first lap incidents again. All will depend on the competitiveness of the Lotus as well. Raikkonen tends to lack speed if the car isn't good enough.

#14 swerved

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 21:35

Where the hell is my "RG will be future double WDC" quote? :mad:



I purposely left that one out, no-one would have believed that someone could really have had that opinion. :)


#15 Dolph

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 22:43

I purposely left that one out, no-one would have believed that someone could really have had that opinion. :)


True,

F3 Euroseries title,
Gp2 Asia series title,
another GP2 Asia series title,
Auto GP title,


They all reak of mediocrity.

#16 swerved

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 22:49

True,

F3 Euroseries title,
Gp2 Asia series title,
another GP2 Asia series title,
Auto GP title,


They all reak of mediocrity.



Mediocritys a good word, perhaps Romain might aspire to that next season :)


But in all seriousness, what he did in the lower series bears very little relation to what he hasn't, or might in future, achieve in F1.



#17 Wolfie

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 23:38

Based upon last season Lotus could have raced with only Kimi and still got 4th in the WCC-standings.

I'm still not assured that he has 'learned' from 2009 and last season, it's the lack of spatial awareness that I'm worried about.

This is The Year for Romain, if he continues the same way he raced last season... then I don't see any reason to let him hang along. From the team's POV.

If he again steps up, then it's definitely a good decision ;)

#18 Jimisgod

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 01:23

Kimi by a trillion points.

Romain gone mid year.

#19 Seanspeed

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:02

This wont end well, but I'll at least say:

I think it'll be close. Good luck to em both. Unless they're in front of a Ferrari. In which case - they're terrible and its just luck. :p

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#20 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:07

Kimi by a trillion points.

Romain gone mid year.



Who would be likely to replace Grosjean. I would really like to see Kobayashi.

#21 Wander

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:52

I really, really, really hope for Grosjean's sake that he can put it together and cut down on the incidents significantly while maintaining pace, but I don't think he will finish ahead of Räikkönen, no. Romain can still come good, but it kind of feels like a roll of dice for me right now. I don't feel confident at all about him, but you just never know. He has the speed.

#22 Jimisgod

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:25

What is this about Romain having speed?

He scored less than half the points of Kimi. Kimi, who was out for 2 years. If he "had speed" it would be close, not the team relying on Kimi to score 70% of their points.

If we use that same mesurement, Rosberg was faster than Schumacher ho was out for 3 years. So Rosberg is about the fastest driver in F1.

Lotus made a mistake, but got Total money in return.

Kimi is on form and will brain him even harder next year.



#23 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:32

What is this about Romain having speed?

He scored less than half the points of Kimi. Kimi, who was out for 2 years. If he "had speed" it would be close, not the team relying on Kimi to score 70% of their points.

If we use that same mesurement, Rosberg was faster than Schumacher ho was out for 3 years. So Rosberg is about the fastest driver in F1.

Lotus made a mistake, but got Total money in return.

Kimi is on form and will brain him even harder next year.



Does Kimi have the same points/bonus based contract as he had this season?

If he does he will be looking for the lions share of the team points again.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 18 December 2012 - 03:34.


#24 Wolfie

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:41

Does Kimi have the same points/bonus based contract as he had this season?

If he does he will be looking for the lions share of the team points again.


I assume that they made some alterations to the contract, unless it was set in stone for two years?

#25 Wolfie

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:43

What is this about Romain having speed?

He scored less than half the points of Kimi. Kimi, who was out for 2 years. If he "had speed" it would be close, not the team relying on Kimi to score 70% of their points.

If we use that same mesurement, Rosberg was faster than Schumacher ho was out for 3 years. So Rosberg is about the fastest driver in F1.

Lotus made a mistake, but got Total money in return.

Kimi is on form and will brain him even harder next year.


I've been wondering the same all year :lol:

He was fast on qualification laps but in race pace he wasn't anything spectacular. IMO. Unless of course he took out some cars in the start :lol:


#26 Jacobss

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:58

Grosjean is a weird driver. I wouldn't be surprised if he rose to the occasion Massa 2008 style, improved consistency a lot and actually beat Kimi, because he is really that fast. Especially in qualifying. Like Massa was in his prime.

On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if he collapsed completely Sato 2005 style and destroyed his career.

We will see, what is gonna happen.

Why people like you always forget about qualifying with different fuel loads and that quali with exact amount of fuel are again in F1 first from 2010?

It's hard to talk about "out-qualifiyng", when fuel loads made a difference.

#27 Wander

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 15:05

Grosjean had good speed in quite a few races. Bahrain, Spain, Canada, Hungary, Britain, Austin, Singapore - he was almost as fast as Kimi in all of those (and better at least in one of those races) so I think it is fair to say that he has speed as I consider Kimi a very fast driver. If he had not made all those mistakes, he could have been good enough to make Lotus 3rd in the WCC. But the amount of mistakes...

#28 PretentiousBread

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 15:13

Grosjean had good speed in quite a few races. Bahrain, Spain, Canada, Hungary, Britain, Austin, Singapore - he was almost as fast as Kimi in all of those (and better at least in one of those races) so I think it is fair to say that he has speed as I consider Kimi a very fast driver. If he had not made all those mistakes, he could have been good enough to make Lotus 3rd in the WCC. But the amount of mistakes...


This. Kind of goes without saying, RG was one of the fastest drivers in 2012. But his mistakes look like a fundamental spatial awareness problem. He has form for this from the lower categories as well, so I don't think he'll ever be able to rid himself of it. Kimi blew him away with consistency rather than pace.

#29 hijinx

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 15:26

about the speed question, I wonder if it was initially that Kimi was rusty and Grosjean had the pirelli testing role to benefit from... then later on, Kimi had to do most of the on-track development work and sometimes they held him back so his qualify was more often than not, affected by these. I guess we can only know more next year.

#30 tarmac

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 15:44

I think Kimi will struggle again in qualifying to a degree unless Lotus can solve some issues and Kimi managed to steer the car to his way. Grosjean is fast on lap as you can see from ROC espcecially and Kimi maybe not so strong in places that are mickey mouse

Front tires were the problem at Ferrari and they still were but maybe that and power steering will be better

#31 2ms

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 16:05

To me, the bottom line issue with Romain is he showed no improvement last year. No team other than one where the team principal is his manager, would ever rehire a driver who barely got through 50% of races and showed no evidence of having an ability to improve. That's unheard of in today's safety-focued, high equipment reliability, F1.

In my book, it's basically corruption. I'm a bit surprised there hasn't been protest among his victims and inevitable future victims (ie the other drivers and teams).

Why is this related to Kimi vs Romain, you might ask? The answer is that this makes is clear Romain's management/the team will go to great lengths to make him as successful as possible. Possibly the primary measure of a driver these days (to many) is how he looks relative to his teammate.

It's a tremendously obvious danger and conflict of interest wrt Kimi.

Edited by 2ms, 18 December 2012 - 16:10.


#32 beefree88

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 16:12

about the speed question, I wonder if it was initially that Kimi was rusty and Grosjean had the pirelli testing role to benefit from... then later on, Kimi had to do most of the on-track development work and sometimes they held him back so his qualify was more often than not, affected by these. I guess we can only know more next year.


http://www.mtv3.fi/u...auden-haasteett
Unfortunately I don't have a full english translation. It seems Slade says that Kimi had to change his natural driving style and find the right setup to help him to warm up the front tyres. That took time. Development work also took away a lot of his time. All that made him more cautious than he was before.

Actually I find this promising, because he seemed to handle well the problems which were pretty similar to what he had in his Ferrari years. Of course he had less misfortune than he had back in 2008-2009.

Next year Pirelli promises tyres with less warm up problem, similar or more degradation and wider operating window than this year. On paper that should be better for Kimi.

#33 race addicted

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 16:23

While this was Grosjean's first full season, I actually believe that in qualifying, Räikkönen has bigger potential to improve. Grosjean will dø fine so long as he gets off to a good start, 'cause that is an absolute necessity for his self-belief and confidence.

#34 2ms

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 16:31

While this was Grosjean's first full season, I actually believe that in qualifying, Räikkönen has bigger potential to improve. Grosjean will dø fine so long as he gets off to a good start, 'cause that is an absolute necessity for his self-belief and confidence.


He's in his late 20s, will be in his 3rd year of F1, and you feel that the trick will be improving his self-belief and confidence? Do you have any evidence to support this hope?

He crashed out of 2 of his last 3 races. Enough's enough. How many years of excuses does he get? Meanwhile, drivers like Kobayashi, Senna, Kovalainen, are dropping out of F1 like flies.


#35 turssi

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 16:50

Can you add a poll and also a link to the poll from last year?

#36 intelligentsia

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 16:55

http://www.mtv3.fi/u...auden-haasteett
Unfortunately I don't have a full english translation. It seems Slade says that Kimi had to change his natural driving style and find the right setup to help him to warm up the front tyres. That took time. Development work also took away a lot of his time. All that made him more cautious than he was before.

Actually I find this promising, because he seemed to handle well the problems which were pretty similar to what he had in his Ferrari years. Of course he had less misfortune than he had back in 2008-2009.

Next year Pirelli promises tyres with less warm up problem, similar or more degradation and wider operating window than this year. On paper that should be better for Kimi.



Kimi's qualifying actually did improve in the second part of the season. I have a suspicion that a big part of Kimi's qualifying issues could be traced back to free practice. Apart from drivers like Bruno Senna who had to sit out in many free practice sessions, Kimi was one of the drivers who had missed the most free practice sessions. He was constantly had problems during free practice sessions (practically every 3rd race), which means he was always playing catch up and chasing a set up. In many of these cases Kimi rather ended up concentrating on his set up for the race then on qualifying. Kimi was lucky that he didn't suffer from reliability during the races, but he really have a lot of issues during free practice. For someone in a new team and who has been out of the sport for two years, it must have some of side effects. Lotus needs to improve their preparation for the races next year.

#37 eREr

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 17:21

He's in his late 20s, will be in his 3rd year of F1, and you feel that the trick will be improving his self-belief and confidence? Do you have any evidence to support this hope?

He crashed out of 2 of his last 3 races. Enough's enough. How many years of excuses does he get? Meanwhile, drivers like Kobayashi, Senna, Kovalainen, are dropping out of F1 like flies.

Please accept the decision and stop repeat yourself again and again. Everyone knows well your opinion about Gro, but "Enough's enough". Discuss the future of the pair in this thread, not the past.

You are also not fair to Gro: in Abu Dhabi he was smashed by Perez and he was unlucky in Brazil: someone spins to the barrier, while the other goes to the service route after a similar mistake.

Example: please check the first 2 years of Vettel in F1. He had also a nightmare period in his second year (in his first full year). The other example is Petrov. Let's see how Grosjean will perform in 2013 and then judge him. But not before.

If he won't improve and won't finish the races, the team will replace him in the mid of the year, it is clear. Pure speed is not enough in F1, no question about this, but let's see how his racecraft improves (or not). Maybe the brand new simulator of the team might help him in this area.

#38 2ms

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 19:59

I was genuinely interested in why anyone thinks there are signs he will improve. Did you feel like he showed great improvement last season? Do you not agree that he is easily the most dangerous driver in F1 and that it would require a large amount of improvement for him to stop being The Crash Kid?

I just don't see any evidence of significant improvement. Let me know if this evidence actually exists.

#39 DrF

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:02

It's OK. Romain brings TOTAL, who help pay Kimi 50K for every point he scores.

As long as he doesn't take out his team mate, he'll be fine.

Who is Lotus' reserve driver this year? If I was involved in drawing up RG's contract I'd have a clause in there that states that he gets demoted to reserve driver the first incident he has.

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#40 Wolfie

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:26

My hunch is Davide Valsecchi. He talked so mysteriously the other day that he might well be the one taking over if Romain can't meet up to the team's expectations.

And they have demanded RG to finish every race, so it's not going to be a walk in the park for RG if that is really the case.

#41 2ms

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:34

I wish they were paying RG 50k for every point scored. Last thing Enstone and their first driver need is yet another avenue by which the biggest sponsor (Total) and the most powerful person in the team (Boulier) are motivated to promote RG's interests over their other driver's. It's enough already that Boulier essentially makes money when RG does well and loses money when their other driver does well.

#42 Wolfie

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:38

I was genuinely interested in why anyone thinks there are signs he will improve. Did you feel like he showed great improvement last season? Do you not agree that he is easily the most dangerous driver in F1 and that it would require a large amount of improvement for him to stop being The Crash Kid?

I just don't see any evidence of significant improvement. Let me know if this evidence actually exists.


Same here :up:

I wasn't really familiar with RG when the season started and was first thinking that poor Romain, hope next race goes better. During the season it became clear that it's more of a rule than exception that he will take himself out.

One front wing costs about 10.000 euros. It's not cheap to wreck cars so often. Besides I had hoped for him to be on a similar race pace with Kimi, it would had been awesome to follow their battles on the track. But then instead I was praying that those two would not get close on track :lol:

It's quite a big thing to feel safe on the track one would assume? Was it in Valencia when Maldonado was in front of Kimi and RG was somewhere behind, when RG blazed from the outside and sandwiched Kimi between himself and Maldonado?

That was close, fortunately Kimi had time to react in time and back off. Otherwise it would had been yet another mass-collision in the start.

They are opposite extremes though, usually during races commentators where horrified over RG's behavior on track while they praised Kimi's spatial awareness in other incidents. Imagine the outcome had Kimi not reacted in a flash when Seb was spinning around in the start? Kimi went wide just to avoid hitting him.

Maybe when one has followed Kimi for so long Romain's tactics on track look more worse than they are in reality. But either way I hope Lotus gets a better year this year :up:

Edited by Wolfie, 19 December 2012 - 11:40.


#43 Wolfie

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:47

I wish they were paying RG 50k for every point scored. Last thing Enstone and their first driver need is yet another avenue by which the biggest sponsor (Total) and the most powerful person in the team (Boulier) are motivated to promote RG's interests over their other driver's. It's enough already that Boulier essentially makes money when RG does well and loses money when their other driver does well.


LOL - or making him pay for the damage he causes. Then again his salary would not had covered the damages last year.

As for qualification-speed, if both are given the luxury of focusing on their setups starting from the 1st Friday practice, then it would be interesting to see how the qualifications go :up:

#44 hijinx

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 14:34

LOL - or making him pay for the damage he causes. Then again his salary would not had covered the damages last year.

As for qualification-speed, if both are given the luxury of focusing on their setups starting from the 1st Friday practice, then it would be interesting to see how the qualifications go :up:

wasn't Grosjean's salary rumored to be $1 million last year? Well, I can't be sure what the total damage from Grosjean was but to pay him $50k per point sounds like a reasonable thing if he has to also pay for all damage that was caused by him, not by someone else crashing into him though... :lol:

#45 Topsu

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 14:52

Romain won't race the full season.

#46 race addicted

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 15:12

He's in his late 20s, will be in his 3rd year of F1, and you feel that the trick will be improving his self-belief and confidence? Do you have any evidence to support this hope?

He crashed out of 2 of his last 3 races. Enough's enough. How many years of excuses does he get? Meanwhile, drivers like Kobayashi, Senna, Kovalainen, are dropping out of F1 like flies.


(...) "evidence to suppport this hope"

:confused: How do I provide that, evidence for my hopes??

I said I think he'll be just fine as long as he get's off to a good start, 'cause there are bound to be some question-marks at the back of his mind. If he's involved in a crash early on, the vicious circle will start to spin again.

I've critised Grosjean this year, plenty of times (and it's been deserved, constructive critisism), but when you show such promise, it's perfectly understandable how his team feels his worthy of a new contract.
His team-mate has the perfect racing instinct, and maybe Grosjean will never quite get to that level, but his speed is there, so any team would be afraid to let him go. If he can only sort himself out, he'll be a formidable driver.

#47 Pothead4Philosopher

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 21:59

(...) "evidence to suppport this hope"

:confused: How do I provide that, evidence for my hopes??

I said I think he'll be just fine as long as he get's off to a good start, 'cause there are bound to be some question-marks at the back of his mind. If he's involved in a crash early on, the vicious circle will start to spin again.

I've critised Grosjean this year, plenty of times (and it's been deserved, constructive critisism), but when you show such promise, it's perfectly understandable how his team feels his worthy of a new contract.
His team-mate has the perfect racing instinct, and maybe Grosjean will never quite get to that level, but his speed is there, so any team would be afraid to let him go. If he can only sort himself out, he'll be a formidable driver.


What would that promise be and what speed seriously? Some good qualies does not make one fast. -- His F1 career does not hold any promise whatsoever, who can find a driver that has had the same amount of crashes in a single year -- even when measured in percentages?

Romain is a nice chap who does not belong to the big league -- and 'formidable' is not a word that ought to be used in a same sentence with RG, unless combined with the wording 'formidable risk for all'.

#48 Mauseri

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:03

I don't see a reason why Romain could not be a threat for Kimi. But I don't see a reason why Kimi would not perform strongly. It will be close again, unless Romain gets regularly in trouble. Last year Kimi avoided all collisions, but propably he will some time get his accident as well.

Pessimist does not need to get dissapointed when something happens.

#49 BackOnTop

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:50

I think only about 1% out here genuinely want Romain to do well as a Fan of his.

The others simly want Romain to do well to use it as "another" opportunity to bash a genuine, brilliant and extraordinary World Champion.

Sad that many can't appreciate good perfomances by Romain without taking potshots at Kimi Raikkonen. Saw it happen in 2012 topic in the beginning of the year. One good "qualifying" for Romain automatically translated to Kimi being shit driver.

Expect more of the same here for the coming season.

PS- Massa 'gained' a few fans in 2008, who have now simply abandoned him since then. Hope Grosjean is not being "used" by similar miscreants, and that pro-grosjeans are actual well wishers without ulterior motives. Discussions are better amongst genuine fans of each drivers, instead of Kimi-Haters hijacking this topic.

About Grosjean:- he has the speed to do well, and Hope the Kimi-Grosjean partnership give Ferrari & Mclaren a very bad time in 2013 together as a team.

Edited by BackOnTop, 26 December 2012 - 13:05.


#50 SilentKiller

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 14:03

The success of the team next year depends on what Boulliers intentions are for next season; To get the max no of points OR to project his pet driver Grosjean as a future WDC.
If it is the former, Kimi has the edge, if it is the latter it will be very close.