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Kimi Vs Romain 2013


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Poll: Who will finish ahead in 2013, Kimi, or Romain ?. (428 member(s) have cast votes)

Who will finish ahead in 2013, Kimi, or Romain ?.

  1. Kimi (391 votes [91.36%])

    Percentage of vote: 91.36%

  2. Romain (37 votes [8.64%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.64%

Who will get the first win, Kimi, or Romain ?.

  1. Kimi (377 votes [88.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 88.08%

  2. Romain (51 votes [11.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.92%

Will Romain improve, or will he still have problems ?.

  1. Yes, he'll improve. (282 votes [65.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 65.89%

  2. No, he'll still have problems. (146 votes [34.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.11%

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#51 rijole1

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 22:52

I think Romain can improve
if we think about number of DNF - he hardly can crasch more next year than he did this
and J think he wont get any raceban next year.  ;)

He'll be more cautious, but that can affect on his racecraft and amount of points he'll gather

But of course, both Kimi and Romain are depending on how good car Lotus can produce for 2013

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#52 Spillage

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:57

I think Kimi is going to maintain his upper hand this year, but I don't think Grosjean should be condemned to the extent that he is being in this thread. RG strikes me as a classic 'confidence' driver, a bit like Massa - he needs to feel like he has the team squarely behind him, but when he does, he can be one of the best drivers on the grid. I urge everybody to watch the highlights from Valencia to see what I mean: RG pulls off a brilliant pass on Hamilton and goes wheel-to-wheel with Alonso, not looking at all like a driver with a 'fundamental spatial awareness problem' to me. I just think that he managed to allow himself to be convinced that he had a particular problem, and so tried so hard to avoid incidents that it kept happening again and again. The particularly bone-headed crash with Webber in Japan, where he seemed to be watching his mirrors instead of the road ahead of him, was a good example of this.

I honestly think RG could beat Kimi and could be a World Champion, with the right nurturing and the right level of confidence. Sadly, last year Boullier piled the pressure on him when an arm around the shoulders would have been a lot more helpful. As such, I don't think RG can improve on his incident ratio and I can easily see 2013 being his last season in F1, though I hope I'm wrong.

RG's best race to date, if anyone's interested: http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/18569752

#53 Kingshark

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:37

I can't believe people actually believe Kimi has more margin for improvement than Grosjean. Delusional.

Raikkonen has already peaked and passed his prime, Grosjean the opposite. In 2012, they were very close in terms of raw pace. From here onward, Raikkonen is just going to get slower where's Grosjean will become quicker.

Grosjean will destroy Raikkonen on pace in 2013.

You heard it here first. :wave:

#54 Boxerevo

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:51

I can't believe people actually believe Kimi has more margin for improvement than Grosjean. Delusional.

Raikkonen has already peaked and passed his prime, Grosjean the opposite. In 2012, they were very close in terms of raw pace. From here onward, Raikkonen is just going to get slower where's Grosjean will become quicker.

Grosjean will destroy Raikkonen on pace in 2013.

You heard it here first. :wave:

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#55 goldenboy

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:04

haha I think about 90% of the people in this thread have gone full retard! Doesn't seem to matter which driver you support.

Some overly defensive kimi fans, some anti kimi fans (note I did not say "pro grosjean fans") and then a few guys trying to figure out why everyone is so butthurt. ( :wave: )

For what it's worth I think Romain is capable of winning a WDC if he gets himself together, and I'm really just going off what I've seen in junior categories which I don't do for any other driver, but his stood out that much more I think. Put him against the STR boys and I think Dietrich would be looking for some new talent.

Don't think he will beat kimi though, who I don't think has lost any speed. F1 is very different these days and he adapted amazingly and will be even better next year.

Damn I would love to see the old big bad cars back... :cry:

Edited by goldenboy, 28 December 2012 - 06:11.


#56 swerved

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:48

I can't believe people actually believe Kimi has more margin for improvement than Grosjean. Delusional.

Raikkonen has already peaked and passed his prime, Grosjean the opposite. In 2012, they were very close in terms of raw pace. From here onward, Raikkonen is just going to get slower where's Grosjean will become quicker.

Grosjean will destroy Raikkonen on pace in 2013.

You heard it here first. :wave:



No, aside from the 2013 bit we heard plenty similar prior to the start of the 2012 season, see the OP in this thread, such statements sounded every bit as foolish back then as they do, and indeed, yours does, today.



#57 Kingshark

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 20:58

No, aside from the 2013 bit we heard plenty similar prior to the start of the 2012 season, see the OP in this thread, such statements sounded every bit as foolish back then as they do, and indeed, yours does, today.

Not to brag, but I was the first one to call Massa soundly beating Raikkonen ahead of the 2008 season. Everyone laughed at me in February of 2008, I laughed back harder in November. :clap:

Sure, if you want to quote me on my statement and talk about how stupid it sounds, go ahead. But I'll be the one laughing in 12 months from now. :wave:

#58 Vesuvius

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 21:02

Not to brag, but I was the first one to call Massa soundly beating Raikkonen ahead of the 2008 season. Everyone laughed at me in February of 2008, I laughed back harder in November. :clap:

Sure, if you want to quote me on my statement and talk about how stupid it sounds, go ahead. But I'll be the one laughing in 12 months from now. :wave:


Will see but we will laugh if Grosjeand doesn't destroy Kimi next year...remember Grosjean beating Kimi isn't enough, he has to destroy him as you wrote above. Destroying someone means in current pointsystem 60+ points gap between the two and in terms of pace over 0,5 second/lap.

Edited by Vesuvius, 28 December 2012 - 21:03.


#59 Zava

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 21:07

Not to brag, but I was the first one to call Massa soundly beating Raikkonen ahead of the 2008 season. Everyone laughed at me in February of 2008, I laughed back harder in November. :clap:

Sure, if you want to quote me on my statement and talk about how stupid it sounds, go ahead. But I'll be the one laughing in 12 months from now. :wave:

calling 2008 wasn't that hard after Montezemolo coming out and saying he wants Massa as wdc in 2008. :rolleyes:
but afaik Lopez hasn't said anything like that, so I'm not afraid about your prediction.

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#60 swerved

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 22:50

Not to brag, but I was the first one to call Massa soundly beating Raikkonen ahead of the 2008 season. Everyone laughed at me in February of 2008, I laughed back harder in November. :clap:

Sure, if you want to quote me on my statement and talk about how stupid it sounds, go ahead. But I'll be the one laughing in 12 months from now. :wave:


But not here, not with that username at least eh :lol:







#61 Dolph

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:29

calling 2008 wasn't that hard after Montezemolo coming out and saying he wants Massa as wdc in 2008. :rolleyes:
but afaik Lopez hasn't said anything like that, so I'm not afraid about your prediction.


So if Montezemolo says he want Massa as wdc in 2013 Alonso better watch out? :rotfl:

#62 Kingshark

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 04:32

Will see but we will laugh if Grosjeand doesn't destroy Kimi next year...remember Grosjean beating Kimi isn't enough, he has to destroy him as you wrote above. Destroying someone means in current pointsystem 60+ points gap between the two and in terms of pace over 0,5 second/lap.

Grosjean will destroy Raikkonen on pace in 2013.

You did read what I wrote, right?

#63 Kingshark

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 04:34

But not here, not with that username at least eh :lol:

Am I allowed to post links to other forums from here?

EDIT: Whatever Captain Obvious. I can't wait to see the responses in 11 months time. I'll look like either a genius or the biggest idiot on earth, but I have faith in Romain. :wave:

Edited by Kingshark, 29 December 2012 - 04:45.


#64 MonacoMaster

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 08:03

I can't believe people actually believe Kimi has more margin for improvement than Grosjean. Delusional.

Grosjean will destroy Raikkonen on pace in 2013.

You heard it here first. :wave:


I dont see any reason why he wouldn't do that as he already destroyed Alonso, Webber and Hamilton during 2012 season.

#65 Mauseri

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 09:51

Not to brag, but I was the first one to call Massa soundly beating Raikkonen ahead of the 2008 season. Everyone laughed at me in February of 2008, I laughed back harder in November. :clap:

After seeing 2007, it was not really surprise to see that Massa was faster than Kimi in some races and slower in others, or was it?

The same is possible with Romain, but he has more work to do in reducing his number of mistakes. Of course it is possible he will not do many.

But Grosjean 'destroying' Kimi is not going to happen, unless you think Kimi not destroying Grosjean is Kimi being destroyed. At least that was the message I got from these boards in the Ferrari times when Massa was not destroying Kimi if we stay factual. It was just a good fight and Massa happened to win it in 2008.

It is funny that many people are desperate to claim Kimi is being destroyed, when someone barely beats him.

Edited by Mauseri, 29 December 2012 - 09:54.


#66 swerved

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:17

Am I allowed to post links to other forums from here?

EDIT: Whatever Captain Obvious. I can't wait to see the responses in 11 months time. I'll look like either a genius or the biggest idiot on earth, but I have faith in Romain. :wave:



Feel free to PM me a link, Lieutenant Delusional :)


Oh, personally i think we dont have to wait 11 months to decide on one of your options.

#67 Wander

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:06

What does it even mean to destroy Kimi on pace? That he's going to be faster in qualifying and races in general without necessarily scoring more points, is it?

#68 LaoTze

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 13:02

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HAHA!

#69 Vesuvius

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 13:16

QUOTE (Vesuvius @ Dec 28 2012, 15:02) *
Will see but we will laugh if Grosjeand doesn't destroy Kimi next year...remember Grosjean beating Kimi isn't enough, he has to destroy him as you wrote above. Destroying someone means in current pointsystem 60+ points gap between the two and in terms of pace over 0,5 second/lap.

QUOTE
Grosjean will destroy Raikkonen on pace in 2013.


You did read what I wrote, right?


yes yes I did, did you read what I wrote?


There is nothing that suggest that either of the two will destroy other in terms of pace, they were even last season on terms of quali pace and Kimi slightly ahead on race pace. Kimi will be better in qualifying next season for sure and I think Romain will do better in races than he did last season but there will be no destroying from either side. New tyres can add some spice to this battle and they should be very good tyres for Kimi's driving style.

Edited by Vesuvius, 29 December 2012 - 13:19.


#70 santababy

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 13:16

What does it even mean to destroy Kimi on pace? That he's going to be faster in qualifying and races in general without necessarily scoring more points, is it?


Yeah so Kingshark thinks grogro will destroy Kimi again in 2013. :lol:

#71 2ms

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 13:26

F1 is a sport where the definition of winning and job of the driver is to score points. This last season, Kimi scored more than 100 more points than Grosjean. It was more than 200% as many points as Grosjean. If Grosjean would like to more than tie things up with Kimi, then he will have to score more than 200% as many points as Kimi. No doubt, his team and its main sponsors would like to see him do it. But that's a lot.

Edited by 2ms, 29 December 2012 - 13:27.


#72 bub

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 14:00

I still expect Kimi to finish ahead but I think Romain will be closer in 2013. The last question in the poll is quite difficult to answer because while I expect Romain to improve, I still expect him to have some problems.

#73 MustangSally

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 14:00

They are opposite extremes though, usually during races commentators where horrified over RG's behavior on track while they praised Kimi's spatial awareness in other incidents.


Yes, RG doesn't appear to know when to back out of situation. And race starts are a real problem.

Wasn't it Andretti at McLaren who could never come to terms with starts? He did have the excuse, though, of coming from the US and rolling starts. I think I remember that Sato had someone talk him through starts on the radio. . . which Brundle found mindbending . . .

It seemed to me that, after the race ban, Romain went over cautious and lost a lot of speed. I'm not convinced he can find a middle way.


#74 Mauseri

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 15:45

I still expect Kimi to finish ahead but I think Romain will be closer in 2013.

I don't know how Romain could be any closer (in terms of pace). It was very even. Grosjean just should start taking points from more than half of the races and also points are about even.

It is possible that Kimi improves from last year though, continuing the good qualif form he had in last part of the season in comparison with Grosjean

#75 rijole1

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 23:10

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:up: :lol: :lol: Couldn't have said it better myself

Edited by rijole1, 29 December 2012 - 23:10.


#76 Rikhart

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 23:34

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Your warning, sadly, came too late :rotfl:

#77 Craven Morehead

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 03:22

I think it's a misperception that RoGro is faster than Kimi in qualifying. I think that's more down to Raik being out of circuit racing for two years while Romain had been honing his craft in GP2. Once Kimi got in the groove, things turned around pretty convincingly. RG only managed to out-Q kimi three times in the last twelve races and it was 5 - 0 in Kimi's favour in the season's home stretch. RG will have his hands full with the Iceman next year.

#78 Kingshark

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 04:11

Well, that didn't take long. :lol:

Being the only Grow John defender against an army of Raikkonen supporters is going to be tougher than I initially predicted. :drunk:

Then again, it's easy to call someone else retarded for having a different prediction than you, but you can't expect anything more than a retarded debate when the opening response to your prediction on the thread is this;

http://image.spreads...-tee_design.png

And then there's the support...

Your warning, sadly, came too late

Couldn't have said it better myself

:down:

#79 Kingshark

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 04:25

Some people have a very short memory. Tune in ahead of the European season, Grosjean was on a role. People were speaking of him as a potential future champion.

Monaco
Romain qualified fourth in a Lotus that was never fast on Saturday all season long. Kimi was nowhere. Unfortunately, a first corner collision with Alonso ended his race on the first lap, and no, that crash was not solely his fault.

Canada
Raikkonen is again nowhere higher than 8th. Grosjean has a stellar race, makes the one-stop strategy work, which Alonso and Vettel couldn't do. After starting 7th, he finishes 2nd, only a few seconds shy of Hamilton.

Europe
Once again Romain totally outclassed Kimi. He was fighting for the win with Vettel and Alonso before his alternator failed, whistle Kimi never came close, and inherited an undeserved 2nd place. This misfortune also prevented Grosjean from leapfrogging his teammate in the WDC.

Great Britain
After a first-lap incident with Di Resta and a puncture, Grosjean was at the back of the field, and 40 seconds behind the leaders. He overtook his way through and finished only a few seconds behind Raikkonen. What does that tell you?

Germany:
Grosjean had a first-lap coming with Senna and drove the rest of the race with a broken car. There's no race pace to compare. Although I admit that Raikkonen was unquestionably the better Lotus driver this weekend.

Here's the clash;
http://4.bp.blogspot...omenica_026.jpg

Hungary
Grosjean qualifies the Lotus on its one and only front row. He chases Hamilton throughout the majority of the race. Later, on prime tyres, Romain fades away and Kimi comes back stronger.

All in all, in these six races Romain was on majority the quicker driver. What happened after Spa? One small mistake turns into a huge crash, he falls from the seventh heaven to hell, and suddenly he's the devil. Now everyone is slating him as if he was responsible for WWII. Ever since that one accident, Romain seems to have lost all his confidence and everything about his driving has become so cautious.

Likewise, the Singapore team orders when Grosjean was the quicker driver all weekend and Raikkonen's championship chances were already very dim, along with the Suzuka incident only made things probably twice as worse for the chap.

No, in my opinion it was Raikkonen, not Grosjean who peaked (comeback wise) in the mid-to-latter stages in 2012. Come on, it's only a matter of time before Romain finds his mojo back, and returns to the form he had from Monaco to Silverstone -- aka the Romain who humiliated Kimi time and time again on raw pace -- , and when he does, I can't wait to hear the Raikkonen fanbase excuses.

Edited by Kingshark, 30 December 2012 - 04:32.


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#80 bourbon

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 05:35

Some people have a very short memory. Tune in ahead of the European season, Grosjean was on a role. People were speaking of him as a potential future champion.

Monaco
Romain qualified fourth in a Lotus that was never fast on Saturday all season long. Kimi was nowhere. Unfortunately, a first corner collision with Alonso ended his race on the first lap, and no, that crash was not solely his fault.

Canada
Raikkonen is again nowhere higher than 8th. Grosjean has a stellar race, makes the one-stop strategy work, which Alonso and Vettel couldn't do. After starting 7th, he finishes 2nd, only a few seconds shy of Hamilton.

Europe
Once again Romain totally outclassed Kimi. He was fighting for the win with Vettel and Alonso before his alternator failed, whistle Kimi never came close, and inherited an undeserved 2nd place. This misfortune also prevented Grosjean from leapfrogging his teammate in the WDC.

Great Britain
After a first-lap incident with Di Resta and a puncture, Grosjean was at the back of the field, and 40 seconds behind the leaders. He overtook his way through and finished only a few seconds behind Raikkonen. What does that tell you?

Germany:
Grosjean had a first-lap coming with Senna and drove the rest of the race with a broken car. There's no race pace to compare. Although I admit that Raikkonen was unquestionably the better Lotus driver this weekend.

Here's the clash;
http://4.bp.blogspot...omenica_026.jpg

Hungary
Grosjean qualifies the Lotus on its one and only front row. He chases Hamilton throughout the majority of the race. Later, on prime tyres, Romain fades away and Kimi comes back stronger.

All in all, in these six races Romain was on majority the quicker driver. What happened after Spa? One small mistake turns into a huge crash, he falls from the seventh heaven to hell, and suddenly he's the devil. Now everyone is slating him as if he was responsible for WWII. Ever since that one accident, Romain seems to have lost all his confidence and everything about his driving has become so cautious.

Likewise, the Singapore team orders when Grosjean was the quicker driver all weekend and Raikkonen's championship chances were already very dim, along with the Suzuka incident only made things probably twice as worse for the chap.

No, in my opinion it was Raikkonen, not Grosjean who peaked (comeback wise) in the mid-to-latter stages in 2012. Come on, it's only a matter of time before Romain finds his mojo back, and returns to the form he had from Monaco to Silverstone -- aka the Romain who humiliated Kimi time and time again on raw pace -- , and when he does, I can't wait to hear the Raikkonen fanbase excuses.


I don't count Grosjean out, but he has a lot of work to do. His judgment when it comes to wheel to wheel racing is severely lacking.

The above 6 races were not error free - so if that is the best stint you have to show for Grosjean, I think it only proves that he still has a long way to go. His driving only humiliated himself last season, the only driver issued a race ban for repeated poor judgment in a very long time. And what does he do in the 20th race? Crash into Webber at the start.

The kid definitely has some skill, but he has to drastically improve if he wants to carry on in F1. I am not a fan of "versus" threads. But in this case, there is no contest unless Grosjean gets his act together.

Edited by bourbon, 30 December 2012 - 05:36.


#81 swerved

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 06:52

I don't count Grosjean out, but he has a lot of work to do. His judgment when it comes to wheel to wheel racing is severely lacking.

The above 6 races were not error free - so if that is the best stint you have to show for Grosjean, I think it only proves that he still has a long way to go. His driving only humiliated himself last season, the only driver issued a race ban for repeated poor judgment in a very long time. And what does he do in the 20th race? Crash into Webber at the start.

The kid definitely has some skill, but he has to drastically improve if he wants to carry on in F1. I am not a fan of "versus" threads. But in this case, there is no contest unless Grosjean gets his act together.



:up: The first driver to be banned in something like 18 years, I imagine if i were a driver thats something i would find extremely humiliating, I almost felt sorry for the guy.

Edited by swerved, 30 December 2012 - 07:00.


#82 swerved

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 06:57

Some people have a very short memory.

No, in my opinion it was Raikkonen, not Grosjean who peaked (comeback wise) in the mid-to-latter stages in 2012. Come on, it's only a matter of time before Romain finds his mojo back, and returns to the form he had from Monaco to Silverstone -- aka the Romain who humiliated Kimi time and time again on raw pace -- , and when he does, I can't wait to hear the Raikkonen fanbase excuses.





:rotfl: Some people do indeed have a very short memory, of the two drivers concerned in this thread, only one was humiliated, practically universally, and it wasn't Raikkonen.

#83 Kingshark

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 07:21

:rotfl: Some people do indeed have a very short memory, of the two drivers concerned in this thread, only one was humiliated, practically universally, and it wasn't Raikkonen.

Grosjean did humiliate himself on quite a few occasions, but that was what many expected anyway when he returned after his unsuccessful stint at Team Alonso Renault. However, he was never really embarrassed on pace, which throughout the majority of the season has easily been on par with his teammate. His reputation was tarnished because he was a car magnet.

How else exactly do you describe the pace difference between Raikkonen and Grosjean at weekends such as Monaco, Canada, Europe and Silverstone? I've said it time and time again, if Romain can clear his mind after the Spa incident, and find his May-June form back, then he has everything in him, and more, to beat Raikkonen in 2013.

Edited by Kingshark, 30 December 2012 - 07:25.


#84 beefree88

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 07:28

Well, that didn't take long. :lol:

Being the only Grow John defender against an army of Raikkonen supporters is going to be tougher than I initially predicted. :drunk:


Well, how about trying to defend Romain without constantly dragging another driver down? Picking facts that fit a certain preconception, while ignoring others serves only starting a fight.

#85 beefree88

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 07:34

Grosjean did humiliate himself on quite a few occasions, but that was what many expected anyway when he returned after his unsuccessful stint at Team Alonso Renault. However, he was never really embarrassed on pace, which throughout the majority of the season has easily been on par with his teammate. His reputation was tarnished because he was a car magnet.

How else exactly do you describe the pace difference between Raikkonen and Grosjean at weekends such as Monaco, Canada, Europe and Silverstone? I've said it time and time again, if Romain can clear his mind after the Spa incident, and find his May-June form back, then he has everything in him, and more, to beat Raikkonen in 2013.


During the year both Lotus drivers had their fair share of problems, but rarely the same time. It was a transitional year for all of them - the team included. Hopefully next year both Kimi and Romain comes out stronger, and delivers the best results they capable of. Personally I wouldn't bet of one or the other being ahead in the end.

#86 Kingshark

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 07:35

Well, how about trying to defend Romain without constantly dragging another driver down? Picking facts that fit a certain preconception, while ignoring others serves only starting a fight.

Dragging another driver down? You do read this forum, right? Have you ever compared the oil tankers of Grosjean bashing on this forum to the minor criticism that Raikkonen receives every now and then?

Of course, it's natural for people to become a lot more annoyed if their favorite driver is being judged unfairly than if it were to happen to someone else. Raikkonen has an enormous fanbase, Grosjean has maybe two or three fans on this forum.

It's quite simple. When people on this thread stop shitting on Grosjean as if he's the worst human being since Joseph Stalin, I will stop (what you consider to be) dragging Kimi down.

Hey. No thread can be entirely one-sided. There's got to be an opposing force. That's why these forums keep rolling!

#87 beefree88

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 07:46

Dragging another driver down? You do read this forum, right? Have you ever compared the oil tankers of Grosjean bashing on this forum to the minor criticism that Raikkonen receives every now and then?

Of course, it's natural for people to become a lot more annoyed if their favorite driver is being judged unfairly than if it were to happen to someone else. Raikkonen has an enormous fanbase, Grosjean has maybe two or three fans on this forum.

It's quite simple. When people on this thread stop shitting on Grosjean as if he's the worst human being since Joseph Stalin, I will stop (what you consider to be) dragging Kimi down.

Hey. No thread can be entirely one-sided. There's got to be an opposing force. That's why these forums keep rolling!

Well, you dragging down Kimi didn't stop others to do the same with the driver you intend to defend, and vice versa. Quite the contrary. How about trying to show some respect if you ask for the same?
Not just personally you of course. I think we could do fine without fighting and bickering.

#88 Zava

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 09:10

Monaco
Romain qualified fourth in a Lotus that was never fast on Saturday all season long. Kimi was nowhere. Unfortunately, a first corner collision with Alonso ended his race on the first lap, and no, that crash was not solely his fault.

nothing to argue about, I agree with this

Canada
Raikkonen is again nowhere higher than 8th. Grosjean has a stellar race, makes the one-stop strategy work, which Alonso and Vettel couldn't do. After starting 7th, he finishes 2nd, only a few seconds shy of Hamilton.

sadly, quali put its stamp on Kimi's weekend. he had a broken diff, which was especially bad on a circuit like canada, lots of low speed accelerations, the team said it made him like ~0.5 sec slower, even though I agree that this must be an exaggeration, he was only 0.05 shy of Grosjean in Q2 which implies he was the faster one without the problem. in the race he got stuck behind cars which are faster in the straight, not much he could do there.

Europe
Once again Romain totally outclassed Kimi. He was fighting for the win with Vettel and Alonso before his alternator failed, whistle Kimi never came close, and inherited an undeserved 2nd place. This misfortune also prevented Grosjean from leapfrogging his teammate in the WDC.

once again, you're wrong. there were only thousands between them in Q, for which Kimi made up with a great start, passing Grosjean in like 50 meters? then came Pastor, who pushed Kimi on the pit exit road, and nearly put himin the wall, Kimi had to slow down and as a result of that, Grosjean turned in as 3rd in the first corner, not Raikkonen. had Maldonado not done that, Kimi might have even won the race, thanks to the bad luck of Vettel. not saying that Grosjean had a worse race than Raikkonen or something, just that with a fair Maldonado at the start, roles would've been reversed.

Great Britain
After a first-lap incident with Di Resta and a puncture, Grosjean was at the back of the field, and 40 seconds behind the leaders. He overtook his way through and finished only a few seconds behind Raikkonen. What does that tell you?

what kind of 40 seconds are you talking about? it was ~25 compared to Kimi. and don't make it like Grosjean had to do an extra pit stop, he just made his first pit stop earlier (that's why he was at the back of the field, he was about 11st when he pitted?), and did the same amount of stops as Raikkonen. the difference was that he raced all minus two laps on the better race rubber, the hard one, and the lotus definitely had the tyre preservation skills to make it work. so no, he didn't work the 25 seconds gap down, he just kept Kimi's pace with a modified 2 stopper. was 3 seconds behind Kimi when he pitted, Kimi came back in front of him with a 5 second lead (MS held him up in the first stint) was 5 seconds behind when he pitted again, Kimi came back 5 seconds in front of him after his 2nd stop.

Germany:
Grosjean had a first-lap coming with Senna and drove the rest of the race with a broken car. There's no race pace to compare. Although I admit that Raikkonen was unquestionably the better Lotus driver this weekend.

Here's the clash;
http://4.bp.blogspot...omenica_026.jpg

I agree, again.

Hungary
Grosjean qualifies the Lotus on its one and only front row. He chases Hamilton throughout the majority of the race. Later, on prime tyres, Romain fades away and Kimi comes back stronger.

only thing I'd add that Kimi lost 5th spot to Alonso at the start thanks to his KERS not working on the first lap, lost 10 seconds in the first stint behind him. had that not happened, maybe he could've jumped further up after the pit stops, and win.


so all in all, I don't really see the Grosjean domination in this period. he was better in some races, they were equal in some, Kimi was better in some.

#89 Pulkit

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 16:41

Dragging another driver down? You do read this forum, right? Have you ever compared the oil tankers of Grosjean bashing on this forum to the minor criticism that Raikkonen receives every now and then?

Of course, it's natural for people to become a lot more annoyed if their favorite driver is being judged unfairly than if it were to happen to someone else. Raikkonen has an enormous fanbase, Grosjean has maybe two or three fans on this forum.

It's quite simple. When people on this thread stop shitting on Grosjean as if he's the worst human being since Joseph Stalin, I will stop (what you consider to be) dragging Kimi down.

Hey. No thread can be entirely one-sided. There's got to be an opposing force. That's why these forums keep rolling!




Wow another Kimi hater .... huuuh.......Ferrari fan???...ooops.......can not digest that kimi came back and is in 3rd in WDC...

#90 Pulkit

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 16:59

Grosjean did humiliate himself on quite a few occasions, but that was what many expected anyway when he returned after his unsuccessful stint at Team Alonso Renault. However, he was never really embarrassed on pace, which throughout the majority of the season has easily been on par with his teammate. His reputation was tarnished because he was a car magnet.

How else exactly do you describe the pace difference between Raikkonen and Grosjean at weekends such as Monaco, Canada, Europe and Silverstone? I've said it time and time again, if Romain can clear his mind after the Spa incident, and find his May-June form back, then he has everything in him, and more, to beat Raikkonen in 2013.



Monaco

Team brought new steering rack for Kimi, but it turns out to be awful.Fp1 gone, Fp2 rain. Fp3, 1 hour to do setup work turns out to be insufficient.

Canada

Hydraulic failure in Qualifying. Still qualify as high as he could, and only small margin off Romain to enter Q3. During the race, Kimi had good run on first stint, but the team pitted him behind traffic with a slow pit stop. Romain didn’t had any traffic issues, just blast through the struggling Alonso and Vettel whom opted for 1 stopper.

Europe

From this gp onwards, Romain received new updates, while Kimi had to wait until Hungary. Ted Kravit had reported this on his ted walks. The differences were 1 tenth btw two of them in Q3. Kimi had great starts, pastor pushed kimi off-track forcing him to lift or else he would crash almost definitely.

Great Britain

Fastest tyre was hard. Romain pitted earlier for it and had clear air to run all the way. Kimi stuck with options, and the team didn’t pit him earlier to undercut Michael, made him run longer first stint and losing time behind traffic, Romain close the gap rapidly. When kimi pitted for hard, the gap to romain increased. Is a case of strategy favoring circumstance.
Germany
Kimi sacrifised FP1 to tests the newly introduced passive DRS. Worst quail circumstance for Lotus. Both car couldn’t get the tyre into working range under wet track. Kimi managed P10. On Sunday finished 4th and promoted to 3rd. Romain changed his damaged wing with fresh tyre, and run in clear air, however, when look at the live timing, their pace was sky and earth.

Hungary

Kimi sacrificed fp1 to test the highly rated passive DRS. Qualification went well until they changed setup in Q3. When the race starts, kimi lost kers, and lose position to Alonso. By no means Kimi was favored by strategy as the team requested him to run more laps in. What kimi did was preserved the tyre as fresh as it was and start lapping fastest lap times when others pitted. His lap time was faster than those pitted for fresh tyre, which allow him to close the gap to leader. Romain was nowhere near kimi pace, he couldn’t even close up to Kimi on the last stint, increasing the gap to 10++ sec.
Listen to team radio, kimi had problem recharging his KERS, and only had half of the full capacity (60kw) while chasing Lewis. Romain was nowhere near Kimi pace despite having fully functional kers in term of pace.

Power steering has been an issue for Kimi, and the team managed to bring an ‘ok’ version for Kimi to use, while not perfect, but not an issue for Kimi to adapt. This won’t be an issue for Kimi in 2013 provided the team managed to came out with the compatible PS for Kimi. His mclaren engineers told Lee Mckenzie kimi used to drive them crazy on this department. Different drivers have different sensitive area on the car, for Romain in eg would be brake setup, which post an issues when the car was lacking grip. Kubica was very precise with brake pedal setup, used to drive his team crazy too.

By no means kimi had reached his peak, LOL. Unlike Romain, Kimi actually improved throughout the season. The car was not built with kimi in minds, unlike those top team stables due to new driver situation. This will changed in 2013 though. And the team had zero references of setup, which hindered their preparations for weekends.

Romain stated in AS magazine, he had issues with the brake. As the team losing out in development battle, the car seriously lacking traction and grip which compromise a late braker like Romain. Something he had to work on for 2013 with the team. Nothing to do with his losing confidence blab la bla,, that’s just pure excuses. However, if he learnt not to crash, he can help himself and the team to collect more points.

And hopefully with the fame brought by Kimi to the team to attract new sponsors, the money would enough for the team to bring equal amount of updates for both drivers.

#91 swerved

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 17:52

Grosjean did humiliate himself on quite a few occasions, but that was what many expected anyway when he returned after his unsuccessful stint at Team Alonso Renault. However, he was never really embarrassed on pace, which throughout the majority of the season has easily been on par with his teammate. His reputation was tarnished because he was a car magnet.

How else exactly do you describe the pace difference between Raikkonen and Grosjean at weekends such as Monaco, Canada, Europe and Silverstone? I've said it time and time again, if Romain can clear his mind after the Spa incident, and find his May-June form back, then he has everything in him, and more, to beat Raikkonen in 2013.


First of all, thanks for the reply to my PM, and the obvious effort you put into it, I'll reply to it later/tomorrow when i have time to do it justice.

Romain certainly did embarrass himself, so at least we're agreed on that point, and he does have some pace, quite a bit of pace, so again, we can agree, Pace however is one small part of an F1 drivers toolkit, and if good pace is about the only tool a driver has, then he's lacking, and if that pace is unsustainable due to creating/being involved in incidents in almost half of the races then that pace will count for very little, as we' saw, one of the most common phrases used by many when discussing Kimi's season is Consistency, and whilst good pace might grab the attention, and hint at things to come, by itself it will do little to sustain a campaign over 19/20 races, you may find it harsh, but i'm of the opinion that Romain is a bit of a one trick pony, and i'm not at all sure that "clearing his mind" is all thats required.

Other have put forward suggestions to explain some of the difference in pace for the races you've mentioned, so i wont bother, there were occasions when he was the faster of the two drivers, but again, being fast is worth very little if a driver can't capitalise on that speed and make the end of the race.

As you've said, Romain has few supporters on this board, and many detractors, but people can only judge on what they see, and what the results are, indeed, as one of his fans pointed out, the results will speak for themselves,they did, and they do.




#92 darkkis

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 11:33

I don't think that it would be fair to only pick random occasions where Romain was faster than Kimi, you also have to remember that Kimi lost his setup time testing new parts or due to problems (steering, kers problems etc). It's just a case of "selective truth" to pick up the facts that support Romain and completely ignore what happened to Kimi.

Edited by darkkis, 31 December 2012 - 11:34.


#93 Ze Bum

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 00:11

Romain Grosjean expects to get equal treatment with Kimi Raikkonen at Lotus this season, but admits "the team is surfing on his name".

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/101406.html


#94 Seanspeed

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 02:49

Romain Grosjean expects to get equal treatment with Kimi Raikkonen at Lotus this season, but admits "the team is surfing on his name".

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/101406.html

There were no signs any driver got favored last year. I see no reason why we should expect it in 2013.

#95 tormave

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:58

The new tyres this year should help Kimi the most - especially in qualifying, but also in races. I think he'll be a tough nut to crack for Romain. At the same time everyone mow recognizes Kimi to still be blindingly fast and consistent over a season, so the pressure is off Grosjean to be faster the faster of the two all the time. A lot depends on how Romain starts the season - if he keeps binning it every other race like in 2012, there will be constant talk about dropping him mid-season. We saw last year he gets very slow with this kund of pressure.

#96 boldhakka

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:40

Qualifying will be fun to watch, I expect to see some good battles between the two.

#97 300KPh

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:05

grosjean will have qualy in the bag as ever

#98 Rikhart

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:11

Romain Grosjean expects to get equal treatment with Kimi Raikkonen at Lotus this season, but admits "the team is surfing on his name".

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/101406.html


I cant stand this guy. Just read this, and you get the feeling he lives in a parallel universe, where he´s perfect, and 2012 was a great season by him. "I made some mistakes, sometimes I was a bit unlucky and it turned out that it was a big story" Wtf? Understatement of the year? I actually re-watched the whole season recently, and I was blown away by the constant errors this guy kept doing in the races. There was hardly any race where he didnt go off the track, completely by himself. So it was not just the maniac crash moments at all, it was much worse than that. Also "the team is surfing on his name"? Is this guy mad? The team is actually SURFING ON HIS PERFORMANCE, you dunce! Where is the modesty and contrition following a horrendous season? Where is the appreciation to the team that gave him an (unbelievable) third chance?

#99 eronrules

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:47

grosjean will have qualy in the bag as ever



why do people have this false notion that Romain is better qualifier than kimi??? kimi was rusty due to absence, but towards the end of the season, he matched and out-qualified Romain several times


japan

romain 1:31.898 Q3
kimi 1:32.208 Q3

Korea

kimi 1:37.625 Q3
romain 1:37.934 Q3

India

kimi 1:26.236 Q3
romain 1:26.136 Q2 eliminated

abu dhabi

kimi 1:41.26 Q3
romain 1:41.778 Q2 eliminated

Us

romain 1:36.587 Q3
kimi 1:36.708 Q3

brazil

kimi 1:13.298 Q3
romain 1:16.967 Q1 eliminated


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#100 Gag Bueno

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:50

grosjean will have qualy in the bag as ever


Good to know! :drunk:

Will he also have (ethernal?) rookie status as ever?