Italian GP 2013
#1
Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:58
We will be flying from Leeds to Bergamo and have pretty much decided where we intend to purchase tickets for and from.
However, we have yet to decide on where to stay as we are not sure about travel arrangements.
Plenty of information exists about travelling from Milan to the circuit but we have been wondering about the possibility of staying in Bergamo....
Does anybody have any experience or comments about this suggestion?
We normally take an apartment or a couple of modest hotel rooms.......4 lads so two rooms or similar arrangements for an apartment..... Any recomendations?
Is travelling by public transport an option from Bergamo? Any ideas of costs and convenience? Regularity of buses and trains, etc?
What is the transport like from Bergamo airport to the town itself and to Milan?
Any previous experiences gained by others would be welcomed.
Kind regards.
Andrew
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#2
Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:13
Some friends and I are planning a trip to Monza in September and this will be our first time to this GP.
We will be flying from Leeds to Bergamo and have pretty much decided where we intend to purchase tickets for and from.
However, we have yet to decide on where to stay as we are not sure about travel arrangements.
Plenty of information exists about travelling from Milan to the circuit but we have been wondering about the possibility of staying in Bergamo....
Does anybody have any experience or comments about this suggestion?
We normally take an apartment or a couple of modest hotel rooms.......4 lads so two rooms or similar arrangements for an apartment..... Any recomendations?
Is travelling by public transport an option from Bergamo? Any ideas of costs and convenience? Regularity of buses and trains, etc?
What is the transport like from Bergamo airport to the town itself and to Milan?
Any previous experiences gained by others would be welcomed.
Kind regards.
Andrew
There are plenty of fast & stopper trains from Bergamo to Milan.
www.monzanet.it - Will give you a good start if you take a look. But it seems to be showing info from 2011.
There are many regional trains on the Milan-Monza. For information: www.trenitalia.it
I didn't notice any extra trains or shuttle buses from Monza station on the qualifying day though - seemed a bit chaotic.
Transport prices are very reasonable though.
#3
Posted 21 December 2012 - 14:14
Yes staying in Bergamo definitely is an option for the Monza GP. Getting from the airport to Bergamo couldn't be simpler, just catch the bus directly outside of the airport, costs about 2 euros and takes ~10 minutes (it's about 3 miles). The bus will drop off at the train station, before carrying on through the town itself, so just pick a stop close to your hotel.
There are plently of hotels/apartments in Bergamo, you'll probably want one reasonably close to the train station for travelling to the GP. I stayed at the foot of the Citta Alta last time, was a 20 minute walk to the train station but not too bad. It's a pleasant walk and gives opportunity for stocking up on beer for the circuit :-) You could stay in the Citta Alta itself but then you'll have to muck about with either the Funicular or a bus.
Travelling to the circuit is easy, a return ticket from Bergamo train station to Monza station is ~7 euros. Just use one of the automated ticket machines at the station, they have English language on them. Trains run every hour and take ~50 minutes. You can check the timetable online at Tren Italia, or there's a nice third party Android App available for Italian Train timeables, I used that.
Once you're at Monza station free shuttle buses take you to the circuit. The return journey is the same, just jump on the free shuttle back to Monza train station. You need to allow about 2 hours really, so for example if you want to catch the first F1 practice at 10am, you want to be getting on a train leaving Bergamo at around 8am.
Bergamo itself is a really nice town, very pretty, especially the Citta Alta which is beautiful at night. Plenty of places to eat up there too. It's obviously not going to be as lively as Milan though, so although restaurants do stay open until late, if it's night life you're after go to Milan.
But if you're not bothered about clubbing the night away, I can heartily recommend Bergamo as a base. If there's anything else you want to know give me a shout.
Cheers, Tim.
Edited by nugat, 21 December 2012 - 14:19.
#4
Posted 05 March 2013 - 17:44
#5
Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:49
Do you have to have a grandstand ticket to attend the thursday pitwalk/signing session, or will I be able to go a 3 day general admission ticket. Thanks
Doesn't mention the pitwalk specifically but....
"Free Walk about on Thursday 05 Sept '13 from 15.00 to 18.00 for three days and Friday ticket owners.(activity to be confirmed)"
http://www.monzanet....1...no eshop en
#6
Posted 13 March 2013 - 15:04
Doesn't mention the pitwalk specifically but....
"Free Walk about on Thursday 05 Sept '13 from 15.00 to 18.00 for three days and Friday ticket owners.(activity to be confirmed)"
http://www.monzanet....1...no eshop en
Thanks, I think we are upgrading to grandstand seats now ,as our flights only cost £95 return
#7
Posted 17 March 2013 - 03:54
Thanks, I think we are upgrading to grandstand seats now ,as our flights only cost £95 return
We sat at the first corner last year...
Absolutely amazing experience, you will not regret it
#8
Posted 05 June 2013 - 15:23
I'm torn between driving to Spa again, or flying to Italy.
I think the Belgium GP cost me about £800 all in
#9
Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:17
Can anyone give me a ball park figure to attend the GP for the 3 days?
I'm torn between driving to Spa again, or flying to Italy.
I think the Belgium GP cost me about £800 all in
Depends on too many factors that will be unique to your location of personal choices.
I would not go general admission, GA space is very limited and taken early by the locals.
The main costs obviously flights, accommodation and grandstand ticket. Travel to/from the circuit is cheap by train ~7 euro return. Most people stay in Milan but there are other towns nearby such as Bergamo (which is 3 miles from an airport).
I always take my own food and beer with me to the circuit, saves a fortune on buying it there. Eating out in Italy is no more expensive than in the UK, we get an apartment so we can cook some of our own meals. Like I said, the price mostly depends on where you're staying, where you're flying from/to and which race ticket you buy. Compared to that the rest is peanuts
#10
Posted 06 June 2013 - 14:20
Depends on too many factors that will be unique to your location of personal choices.
I would not go general admission, GA space is very limited and taken early by the locals.
The main costs obviously flights, accommodation and grandstand ticket. Travel to/from the circuit is cheap by train ~7 euro return. Most people stay in Milan but there are other towns nearby such as Bergamo (which is 3 miles from an airport).
I always take my own food and beer with me to the circuit, saves a fortune on buying it there. Eating out in Italy is no more expensive than in the UK, we get an apartment so we can cook some of our own meals. Like I said, the price mostly depends on where you're staying, where you're flying from/to and which race ticket you buy. Compared to that the rest is peanuts
Well, I'll be flying from one of the London airports to Bergamo (£200?), I'm after simple accommodation (something with a roof and breakfast provided in the morning).
Your suggestion regarding drinks/food sounds like sound advice.
Grandstand ticket is £180, so thats flights and tickets £380.
Now gotta work out accommodation, transfers and spending (beer) money.
#11
Posted 06 June 2013 - 19:15
Well, I'll be flying from one of the London airports to Bergamo (£200?), I'm after simple accommodation (something with a roof and breakfast provided in the morning).
Your suggestion regarding drinks/food sounds like sound advice.
Grandstand ticket is £180, so thats flights and tickets £380.
Now gotta work out accommodation, transfers and spending (beer) money.
We're staying in Bergamo, as we did last year. Beautiful town with enough pubs/restaurants to keep you going. There's a couple of decent shops to stock up on supplies/beer etc
The bus from Bergamo airport to Bergamo town center costs ~2 euros. The train from Bergamo to Monza takes ~50 minutes and runs every hour.
If you want to stay in Milan there are coaches to take you from Bergamo airport to Milan. Buy your tickets from the driver when you get there, think it's something like 14 euros return. They drop outside the central train station in Milan and pickup from the same place, journey time is ~1 hour. The train from Milan to Monza takes ~40 minutes and runs from one of two stations, Central or Garibaldi. Check which one as one year we turned up at Central only to find that all the trains to Monza were going from Garibaldi. On race day (Sunday) trains from Milan to Monza are free.
IMO staying in Bergamo makes for a more relaxing time, espeically if you're flying into there to start with. But then I've done Milan four times so to be honest it's nice to have a change :-)
#12
Posted 16 June 2013 - 19:01
Edit: Just checked the official site (should have done that first!) and they say they'll start posting them from the middle of this month.
Edited by Crazy Ninja, 16 June 2013 - 19:04.
#13
Posted 08 July 2013 - 22:17
Anyone order their tickets from the official Monza site? When should they arrive? I ordered mine in December and was just wondering if i should be concerned that they are yet to arrive.
Edit: Just checked the official site (should have done that first!) and they say they'll start posting them from the middle of this month.
FYI, got my tickets today via DHL.
Can't wait.
#14
Posted 16 July 2013 - 16:52
Mine have now arrived too!FYI, got my tickets today via DHL.
Can't wait.
#15
Posted 23 July 2013 - 20:36
John
#16
Posted 01 August 2013 - 20:36
#17
Posted 24 August 2013 - 19:35
Got it all sorted now, staying at Hotel Colombia which is only a few minutes walk from Stazione Centrale.
Now I just gotta wait. Still doesn't feel real that I'M GOING TO MONZAAAAA!!
Also, is the drivers parade normally on the back of the truck or do the drivers all sit in their own open top car?
Edited by SpartanChas, 25 August 2013 - 10:49.
#18
Posted 27 August 2013 - 14:50
Pretty excited for my first trip Italian GP, just over a week away.
Since Fanvision isn't an option this year (thanks alot Bernard) does anybody have any suggestions about keeping up with the race other than the video screens?
Are there any english language radio options, i.e. like radio le mans?
Is it possible to stream the BBC or any other broadcasters (I have a portable MiFi device) ?
Any assistance would be appreciated.
Ciao!!
#19
Posted 27 August 2013 - 16:08
Also, is the drivers parade normally on the back of the truck or do the drivers all sit in their own open top car?
Back of a truck!
Pretty excited for my first trip Italian GP, just over a week away.
Since Fanvision isn't an option this year (thanks alot Bernard) does anybody have any suggestions about keeping up with the race other than the video screens?
Are there any english language radio options, i.e. like radio le mans?
Is it possible to stream the BBC or any other broadcasters (I have a portable MiFi device) ?
Any assistance would be appreciated.
Ciao!!
Not really unfortunately. The circuit does not have a radio transmission of the commentary so your only free option is to listen to the English/Italian commentary through the circuit PA, which is pretty much inaudible when the cars are running.
I also have a 3 MiFi, but the cost per MB of data outside of the UK would make it *very* expensive to stream BBC commentary. You'd be better off getting an Italian sim-card, but having looked into if briefly before I understand it's not trivial to do so. Also you'd have the problem that BBC coverage is only available in the UK, you'd need to use an internet proxy to get around that one.
In short I think it's easier to just to enjoy the race for what it is, drink in the sound of the V8's one last time and watch the race again on telly when you get home
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#20
Posted 27 August 2013 - 20:28
Back of a truck!
Not really unfortunately. The circuit does not have a radio transmission of the commentary so your only free option is to listen to the English/Italian commentary through the circuit PA, which is pretty much inaudible when the cars are running.
I also have a 3 MiFi, but the cost per MB of data outside of the UK would make it *very* expensive to stream BBC commentary. You'd be better off getting an Italian sim-card, but having looked into if briefly before I understand it's not trivial to do so. Also you'd have the problem that BBC coverage is only available in the UK, you'd need to use an internet proxy to get around that one.
In short I think it's easier to just to enjoy the race for what it is, drink in the sound of the V8's one last time and watch the race again on telly when you get home
Thanks for the insights nugat. I guess it is easy to get spoiled by all our new technology/toys and the expectation of having instant info 24/7.
Great advice to sit back and enjoy the race, just like the 'old' days.
As an aside, I will never forget the visceral feeling the first time I heard the old V10's fire up at my first race (at USGP in 2000). An amazing thing.
#21
Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:25
I'm doubting if I should go or not.
I'm a Kimi fan and went in 2008 where I almost drowned. Not the most positive of memories for me and I don't like huge crowds. But then again, what if it's Kimi's last race in Europe before he retires? What would you do in my place?
#22
Posted 29 August 2013 - 13:52
I'm doubting if I should go or not.
I'm a Kimi fan and went in 2008 where I almost drowned. Not the most positive of memories for me and I don't like huge crowds. But then again, what if it's Kimi's last race in Europe before he retires? What would you do in my place?
Regarding the weather, I'm not saying it wont rain but the odds are it wont. I know what you mean regarding 2008, it was one year I didn't go and it looked miserable. But then we haven't had rain at the Italian GP since 2008 and I think you have to go back a long time before that to the previous wet Italian race?
Only you can decide whether or not you want to go, I'm going because I love the Monza circuit and the atmosphere
#23
Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:24
Anybody got any info regarding tickets? Can I buy them at the circuit directly? A few years back somebody told me that it's cheaper to buy them on sunday rather than over the internet.
#24
Posted 26 October 2013 - 06:40
This is absolutely great choices, Milan is very beautiful cities.
There are plenty of fast & stopper trains from Bergamo to Milan.
www.monzanet.it - Will give you a good start if you take a look. But it seems to be showing info from 2011.
There are many regional trains on the Milan-Monza. For information: www.trenitalia.it
I didn't notice any extra trains or shuttle buses from Monza station on the qualifying day though - seemed a bit chaotic.
Transport prices are very reasonable though.
#25
Posted 25 November 2013 - 19:16
Didnt want to start new topic for this question, i hope it is ok.
I'm looking at buying tickets for 2014 Italian gp, wondering where to buy from and which tickets would you recommend?
At the moment im thinking between roggia : (i really like the view from around this videos position, maybe one more row to left so you can see the drive to the corner and all the way trough. Although i dont really feel like sitting next to the at the lower parts of the stands in the most left part of that stand.), 23b parabolica (this seems nice but it propably isnt the most exciting part?) and just general admission but i guess there is LOADS of hardcore f1-fans taking the best seats at extremely early hours?
Thanks in advance for any help
#26
Posted 26 November 2013 - 15:04
If I go again though I will get a grandstand ticket for Ascari.
Got my tix from F1.com, slightly more expensive but straightforward. Finding the collection point at the circuit was a nightmare though.
This has got me excited for next year now.
#27
Posted 04 December 2013 - 15:57
Masa90-
We went for the first time this year and had a fabulous time. When buying tickets for any event I generally try to buy from the venue so if there are any issues it is easier to resolve, i.e. Monzanet. F1.com is probably also reliable but I have heard too many stories about problems with brokers/third parties.
We sat in one of the stands on the main straight, 26C. They great for all the pre and post race stuff and some of the pit action, not so much passing maneuvers. Added bonus is they are real seats with back and the stand is covered with was nice as there was a little rain this year.
Regardless, have a great time and soak up atmosphere of the place. A little rough around the edges compared to some of the new venues but so cool when you think of all the things that have transpired there. Definitely go down on the track and walk around as much as you can after the race. The old banking just past the Parabolica is amazing.
#28
Posted 19 December 2013 - 16:08
Ok, thank you very much.
Looking forward to start of the season so much now with Kimi back on the red squad...
Even more now that finally i have a chance to go watch him on person.
#29
Posted 12 April 2014 - 13:42
I consider going to Monza this year, about the ticket categories:
- can you see anything (i.e. braking zone and corner entry) from 21c - 21e?
- otherwise (as they are the same price): 21a/b, Vedano (N° 24) or 6a?
Thanks
Edited by Jovanotti, 12 April 2014 - 13:43.
#30
Posted 14 April 2014 - 15:08
I consider going to Monza this year, about the ticket categories:
- can you see anything (i.e. braking zone and corner entry) from 21c - 21e?
- otherwise (as they are the same price): 21a/b, Vedano (N° 24) or 6a?
Thanks
Hi , I sat in 21b last season . You see them come down the straight and into the parabolica . The best thing about that area is there is a gate next to section 22 , which opens straight after the race. We were right underneath the podium celebrations
#31
Posted 16 April 2014 - 20:03
I consider going to Monza this year, about the ticket categories:
- can you see anything (i.e. braking zone and corner entry) from 21c - 21e?
- otherwise (as they are the same price): 21a/b, Vedano (N° 24) or 6a?
Thanks
I went in 2012, during qualy and the race I had the Piscina grandstand tickets (I believe that's No. 5 on that map), it's right at the pit exit and you can see cars flying past, but not much else.
However, I have spent most of Friday practices exploring all the other grandstands and I must say the best ones are 6c or 8b. There are so many mistakes going on there since it's a heavy braking zone and you can really experience the cars going off track and close to the spectators even.
So if you have the money, definitely pick grandstands 6 or 8. Otherwise, incredible atmosphere all around so I doubt you'll be disappointed no matter where you sit.
#32
Posted 18 June 2014 - 07:26
Have any of you gotten your tickets yet?
Im getting really excited, only few months now for my first f1 race !
Is there any use to buy the traintickets in advance to and from the circuit to milan ?
Or are the trains so packed that it is better to buy just before you board so you make sure you get on?
#33
Posted 18 June 2014 - 18:26
I have a similar question regarding the train journey.
Haven't been to the italian GP and while my father sorted the tickets and rented a car my deal is to sort the accommodation.
After reading this thread I might decide to stay in Bergamo.
Are the trains exceptionally crowded as in elbow your way in or wait for the next train? My father is not young anymore, so an extremely crowded train journey might not be the best way to go.
Which is smoothes, car or train?
#34
Posted 21 June 2014 - 12:30
Don't really have much to say about driving in, I got a taxi to the track on Friday morning and it was jammed, but I've heard others say it's usually not too bad.
Edited by SpartanChas, 21 June 2014 - 12:55.
#35
Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:16
I bought the ticket from the machines in stazione central every day, worked out alright and the only thing is to get to the station with plenty of time to spare to make sure you get on. Yes, the train could get quite busy and there's a good chance you'll have to stand most of the time. Also masa90, there's a special train on Sunday which goes straight to the track.
Don't really have much to say about driving in, I got a taxi to the track on Friday morning and it was jammed, but I've heard others say it's usually not too bad.
Ok, thank you very much. Just asked since seemed like metros and trains were really crowded when i visited in milan at start of summer.
#36
Posted 23 June 2014 - 12:16
After reading this thread I might decide to stay in Bergamo.
Are the trains exceptionally crowded as in elbow your way in or wait for the next train? My father is not young anymore, so an extremely crowded train journey might not be the best way to go.
If you're going from Milan then yes the trains will be pretty crowded, if you're going from Bergamo then not a problem, you'll get a seat without any trouble.
However that doesn't mean you will escape the shuttle bus that takes you from Monza station to the circuit, this is always extremely busy and the staff will pack you on like sardines. Thankfully it's only a small part of the journey but it can be very uncomfortable for the 20 minutes or so it takes (depending on traffic). If you're going from Milan you can avoid the shuttle bus on the Sunday by going straight to Lesmo, but on the Friday & Saturday you'll need to use it.
I've always bought a return ticket to Monza on the day, the ticket machines work in English and there are plenty of them, so as long as you leave yourself time it should be no problem. In previous years the shuttle bus from Monza station to the circuit was free, but last year (2013) they started charging for it, I can only assume it will be the same this year. From Bergamo train station you were able to buy a return train ticket and a shuttle bus ticket all in one for 8 euro. This saved the bother of having to buy shuttle bus tickets later on.
#37
Posted 11 July 2014 - 18:53
Have any of you gotten your tickets yet?
Yes, got mine this week . It will be my first full race weekend - I've managed bits at Silverstone (practice this year and qualifying last year, and testing at Jerez and Barcelona) but I'm really excited to finally get the chance to experience the whole event. After reading the advice on here (thanks for that, very useful ) I'm staying in Bergamo, about 5-10 mins walk from the station, I have a seat on the pit straight (not the expensive ones mind ) but plan to explore the rest of the circuit on Friday (with the roving grandstands) and Saturday (general admission areas) and just use it for the race as it will be great to see the pre and post race stuff that happens in the pits/podium and it means I won't have to fight for a decent view in general admission areas for the race and stay there the entire day so I don't lose it.
My flight gets in early Thursday so hopefully I will be able to make it to the circuit if they open the pit-lane, I'm guessing there are no shuttles on Thursday so does anyone know if it is possible to walk from the station to the circuit or if there are local buses that I can use or would I need to get a taxi?
#38
Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:21
I got my tickets also now !
So excited to see them running for the first time live!
And even if Kimi and Ferrari both are having horrid time im really, really hyped about it all!
#39
Posted 03 August 2014 - 18:56
My flight gets in early Thursday so hopefully I will be able to make it to the circuit if they open the pit-lane, I'm guessing there are no shuttles on Thursday so does anyone know if it is possible to walk from the station to the circuit or if there are local buses that I can use or would I need to get a taxi?
I've never walked from the train station to the circuit myself but I've overheard other people saying they have. According to Google maps it will take you around 1 hour, although how accurate that is I don't know. You'd certainly want a map or sat nav as it's not obvious which way you need to go.
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#40
Posted 05 August 2014 - 01:39
I've never walked from the train station to the circuit myself but I've overheard other people saying they have. According to Google maps it will take you around 1 hour, although how accurate that is I don't know. You'd certainly want a map or sat nav as it's not obvious which way you need to go.
Will probably end up walking even though that's a recipe for disaster - have just looked it up on google maps and it looks like a nightmare route, I'm bound to get lost, I have a terrible sense of direction (in Barcelona I managed to get lost on the walk from the train station and ended up on the far side of the circuit rather than the closer main entrance two days in a row and that was a straightforward route).
#41
Posted 05 August 2014 - 11:01
Will probably end up walking even though that's a recipe for disaster - have just looked it up on google maps and it looks like a nightmare route, I'm bound to get lost, I have a terrible sense of direction (in Barcelona I managed to get lost on the walk from the train station and ended up on the far side of the circuit rather than the closer main entrance two days in a row and that was a straightforward route).
Perhaps this is not the absolute quickest route, but I allways walk it, and it is easy to follow: https://www.google.c...1m0!1m0!1m0!3e2 . By the way, the shuttle bus stops at "Viale Cavriga"
#42
Posted 05 August 2014 - 21:29
Perhaps this is not the absolute quickest route, but I allways walk it, and it is easy to follow: https://www.google.c...1m0!1m0!1m0!3e2 . By the way, the shuttle bus stops at "Viale Cavriga"
Thanks - that's very helpful . Looks a bit simpler than the route I had plotted out.
#43
Posted 08 August 2014 - 08:36
And I always go to www.trenitalia.com to check and print train times before I leave home.
Edited by KjetilS, 08 August 2014 - 08:38.
#44
Posted 11 August 2014 - 17:38
So is there any "sure" way to get from Monza station to track apart from walking?
Just asking to be sure to get enough time to do the trip and be in time, whatever it is thursday, friday, saturday or sunday.
#46
Posted 12 August 2014 - 20:09
So is there any "sure" way to get from Monza station to track apart from walking?
Just asking to be sure to get enough time to do the trip and be in time, whatever it is thursday, friday, saturday or sunday.
It looks like for Thursday there are normal buses that run from the station to somewhere near the circuit
MONZA - VEDANO (near Autodromo entrance)Bus 204 from Monza Corso Milano (near Monza Railway Station) to Vedano al Lambro (Vedano gate to Monza circuit)
MONZA - BIASSONO
Bus 221 (Sesto - Carate bus line) from Corso Milano (near Monza railway Station) to Biassono (S. Maria delle Selve gate to Monza circuit)
Fri/Sat/Sun there are shuttle buses from the train station to Viale Cavriga/RAI (Autodrome Gate Vedano). which run from 7.30(fri), 7.00(sat) and 6.00(sun) until 20.00 and then a walk to the circuit which is shown on the map KjetilS posted above. Cost is €8,00 for train+bus ticket or €4,00 bus only return
#47
Posted 22 August 2014 - 08:46
Do you mean that i can get all the way from milano to monza (train and bus) for 8euro?
And is the price same for other way around also?
I decided to make it easier and just go there starting from friday morning, i think there is enough people around so i get there (hopefully XD)
My italian is not good enough yet to start asking where to go and when so will be bit of an adventure for me
#48
Posted 25 August 2014 - 10:25
Or is possible to just buy this 7day pass : http://www.trenord.i...day-passes.aspx
Since Monza is on Lombardy it should work?
The extra price for it is ok since ill be there for the whole week, aslong as the pass just works to and from the track.
#49
Posted 25 August 2014 - 13:24
Do you mean that i can get all the way from milano to monza (train and bus) for 8euro?
8 euro is for the return ticket. I went from Bergamo last year (about the same distance as from Milan) and you could buy a 'special' ticket from the machines at the station which included return train and bus travel for 8 euro.
On Sunday you can catch a train from Milan directly to the circuit (Lesmo station) for 4 euro, see link below.
http://www.monzanet....e gpf1 treno en
If you're used to UK public transport prices then it is refreshing to go somewhere like Italy where you don't have to sell a kidney to get a train ticket
#50
Posted 25 August 2014 - 15:10
I live in Finland and it isnt that much better...