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'Racing Legends' - BBC2 - starting 27th December


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#1 Alan Cox

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:52

BBC2 are presenting three programmes entitled 'Racing Legends' beginning on the 27th December. The first programme features Sir Stirling Moss while the Radio Times lists the subject of Friday 28th's programme being Colin McRae. The third programme on Sir Jackie Stewart has yet to be scheduled, so ignore the date shown on the second of these links:
http://www.bbc.co.uk...nglegends1.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/b01pw9c4

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#2 Tim Murray

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:01

Thanks for the news, Alan - something rather more interesting than the usual Christmas fare. But ...

But how will Sir Patrick [Stewart] cope when he drives a 1957 Formula 1 car at the scene of Stirling’s historic British Grand Prix victory?

Aintree? Really??

#3 Simon Arron

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:04

Aintree? Really??

It's still largely intact, Tim. I think a bit of Tatts Corner has been shaved to accommodate an equestrian grandstand, but the original circuit profile is otherwise unaltered.

#4 David Lawson

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:06

James Martin and Jackie Stewart were both interviewed this morning on the Chris Evans Radio 2 show about the programme they made together, they did give a transmission date but I didn't catch it. James Martin gets to drive the Tyrrell at Monza.

David

Edited by David Lawson, 20 December 2012 - 16:39.


#5 Phil Rainford

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:23

Saw some pictures a while back ...both Ken Block and Sir Chris Hoy involved in the McRae tribute


PAR

#6 Tim Murray

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:30

It's still largely intact, Tim. I think a bit of Tatts Corner has been shaved to accommodate an equestrian grandstand, but the original circuit profile is otherwise unaltered.

Thanks Simon. I'd somehow got it into my head that the new grandstand had been built on top of the old track.

#7 Vitesse2

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:31

It's still largely intact, Tim. I think a bit of Tatts Corner has been shaved to accommodate an equestrian grandstand, but the original circuit profile is otherwise unaltered.

Indeed. Damon Hill (and a couple of other old blokes! :lol: ) did a lovely piece for Sky's British GP coverage about Aintree and Damon drove a Lotus 25 on the old circuit.



The head-on shot at 4'45" is somewhat eerie.

#8 Tim Murray

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:45

Thanks Richard, great stuff - and as a bonus I now know what the great Ian Titchmarsh looks like!

#9 nicanary

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:09

Indeed. Damon Hill (and a couple of other old blokes! :lol: ) did a lovely piece for Sky's British GP coverage about Aintree and Damon drove a Lotus 25 on the old circuit.



The head-on shot at 4'45" is somewhat eerie.


Eerie, and then some. Well spotted. He has a facial grimace so much like his late dad.


#10 Auroraf1

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:13

Saw some pictures a while back ...both Ken Block and Sir Chris Hoy involved in the McRae tribute


PAR

Indeed some of the Chris Hoy bits shot at Oulton.

#11 Stephen W

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 13:15

Aintree? Really??


It's still largely intact, Tim. I think a bit of Tatts Corner has been shaved to accommodate an equestrian grandstand, but the original circuit profile is otherwise unaltered.


Thanks Simon. I'd somehow got it into my head that the new grandstand had been built on top of the old track.


The 'new' grandstand on Tatts does extend onto the old circuit but it doesn't take up the whole of the track. However there would be no way to run an event on the track other than a controlled demonstartion. There are other problems - at the first crossing of the Melling Road (Anchor Crossing) the variations in track levels between the old track, the public road and Sefton Straight are very severe. At the second crossing of the Melling Road (Melling Crossing) there is no direct access onto the old track after the old crossing point - cars have to turn left onto Melling Road and then enter a car park on the right before gaining access back onto the old race track.

#12 Doug Nye

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:50

Latest from the Beeb - I have been involved on the touchlines of both progs and from what I have seen and understood they show great promise. A bit different in approach and actually both throw up new perspectives on these outstanding old heroes' stories....

What follows is in Beebspeak:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/p012ywt6


RACING LEGENDS is an epic BBC Two series that follows high profile car enthusiasts, as they re-trace the steps of Great British racing legends. Through a combination of revealing interviews and fascinating archive footage, each celebrity fan will pay tribute to the racing legend by spending time with them and the people who knew them best. They’ll learn about the vehicles they drove, the engineering they employed and try to understand what put them in pole position. Their ultimate mission: to emulate the legend by re-enacting one of their greatest ever races, in a rare classic car. With the original team of mechanics re-assembled, and the racetracks re-opened, this is the enthusiasts’ opportunity to remind the world just how special the racing legend really was.

Sir Patrick Stewart and Sir Stirling Moss

Former Captain of the USS Enterprise and renowned Shakespearian actor, Sir Patrick Stewart tells the enthralling story of Sir Stirling Moss’ glittering race career. The pair travel to Florence in a classic Mercedes to re-trace the route of Italy’s most famous road race – the Mille Miglia - and discuss how Stirling’s near fatal crash may have been the best thing that ever happened to him. But how will Sir Patrick cope when he drives a 1957 Formula 1 car at the scene of Stirling’s historic British Grand Prix victory?


James Martin and Sir Jackie Stewart

Chef and host of BBC One’s Saturday Kitchen, James Martin tells the story of one of Britain’s greatest ever motor racing drivers, Sir Jackie Stewart. The pair take a road-trip through the Alps in a classic supercar to re-trace the life of ‘70s icon, before self-confessed motor racing fanatic James discovers how Sir Jackie’s relentless safety crusade lives on in the Formula 1 cars of today. But will James prove himself capable of driving one of Sir Jackie’s grand-prix winning cars around the Formula 1 circuit in Monza?


Sir Patrick comes across as a really good bloke - the crew really warmed to him, as did SCM - and I think that warmth permeates the programme. James Martin was diabolically ill-served by that stupid Mille Miglia documentary into which he was inveigled, and although he seems very much still a somewhat naive babe in arms in the Historic car world sense, he makes a great fan/foil for JYS's consummately relaxed showmanship. Helen also comes across very well. A hole in the Moss documentary is the total absence of Suzie - without whom I doubt he'd still even be with us.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 27 December 2012 - 12:55.


#13 Sharman

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 13:29

Thank God they didn't choose Richard Wilson, he did a programme driving classic cars on great road trips. I could not believe how incompetent he was, and the misbegotten morons at the BBC picked him to let a TR3 judder and labour in high gear and then prove himself incapable of changing gear.

Your comments in MS Doug show what these fairies at the Beeb think of anything that doesn't include soccer or tutus. Only some full GPs and no Twickenham Rugby.

#14 ensign14

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 14:23

Sir Patrick comes across as a really good bloke - the crew really warmed to him, as did SCM - and I think that warmth permeates the programme.

The Sunday Times preview suggested Sir Patrick (I never knew he had been knighted) came across as "superfluous" - which in turn shows he's not the archetypal egotistical thesp who would have demanded equal screen time or something. Always comes across well on gridwalks, as well, makes a change to see a celebrity there who actually knows and cares about motor racing.

#15 Giraffe

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 16:30

Sir Patrick comes across as a really good bloke -

DCN


Sir Patrick was born & grew up in Mirfield in the "Heavy Woolen district" of West Yorkshire, the home of "Central Garages, Mirfield" that used to run John Lepp's Chevrons. It is also only half a mile down the road from Team JLR from where Jim Lee ran the late Dan Wheldon in Formula Vauxhall Junior. I lived down the road in Dewsbury, and met Sir Partick on several occasions as he was a willing and regular visitor to the area to open school fetes etc.
He was always most pleasant and approachable, but I never realised he had any interest in motor sport until I saw him racing a Morgan in the Shellsport celeb race at this year's Silverstone Classic.

#16 paulhooft

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 16:44

I really enjoyed the Graham Hill docu: Driven and the one about Jackie Stewart.
That moving docu about The Quiet Champion: Jimmy Clark was a very, very good one...
One of the best!
So I am looking forward to the programs.

Paul

Edited by paulhooft, 27 December 2012 - 16:47.


#17 Kingsleyrob

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 19:43

Aintree it most certainly is! Just checked out the trailer

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/p012zckt

Not long to go now, a decent Christmas present at last, apart from the bundle of tea towels....

Rob

#18 cpbell

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 21:13

I'm probably easily-pleased, but I really enjoyed that. Yes, there were a couple of inaccuracies for the sake of the narrative (Le Mans coming before Aintree in '55 and the loss of the '58 title to Hawthorn were the ones I spotted), but Sir Patrick's obvious enjoyment and Sir Stirling being in mischievous form, allied to ACS Brooks and our own DCN making appearances far outweighed the inaccuracies for me.

#19 paulhooft

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 21:20

I have seen only the second part of the Moss Docu but think this is a good one...
Nice to see Katie.. and yes, his Lady Susie was not in the Docu..., next time, more of Sir Stirling, 2 hour docu??

Edited by paulhooft, 27 December 2012 - 21:55.


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#20 D-Type

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 21:22

I also missed the first half. Is it on 'catch-up TV'anywhere?

#21 Glengavel

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 21:25

I enjoyed that. But imagine chauffeuring SCM in a gull-wing Mercedes, I'd have been bricking it!


#22 brakedisc

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 21:28

I thought it was reasonable................................................................wife ( non motor racing type ) thought it should have been called "the egos have landed".

Dare I let her watch the JYS programme?

#23 cpbell

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 21:28

I also missed the first half. Is it on 'catch-up TV'anywhere?


For those in the UK only...BBC iPlayer

#24 Paul Hurdsfield

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 21:46

I really enjoyed it, probably the best Christmas special so far for me :)
I was sat there telling the swmbo that at the tnf Herts film show a couple of years ago Doug sat at 'our' table :wave:
And I got to fondle Jenk's pace note scrolling machine :blush:

#25 ghinzani

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 22:11

I'm not sure it was a program about Moss, more a chance to stroke the other fella's ego. The Sky F1 documentary was way better.

#26 RTH

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 22:15

Great archive footage very well put together, enormous amounts of work would have gone in to producing that programme.

#27 Mal9444

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 22:24

Really enjoyed it, although my lady, also watching, did remark as Saint Patrick was being let in the door of 46 Shepherd Street: 'that's got to be the first time Stirling's answered the door in person in years - what's happened to "Susie - there's someone at the door"?" (Or simply the buzzer going and the Great Voice saying "Yes? Who is it?")

That black-and-white footage of the 1950 Dundrod TT and SCM in the Wisdom XK120 was a first for me and I thought I had seen every bit of Dundrod footage ever shot.

And did you notice that not once did anyone say "the greatest driver never to have won etc etc...". For that alone it has to be given a very high mark.

PS - and I hope not a sour note, but re SCM's oft-quoted statement, repeated here towards the end of the programme, about no one ever dying in a Ferrari because of a mechanical problem. Have not I read that the cause of Ascari's fatal accident while testing was because the wrong size tyres were being used before the proper tyres arrived?

#28 scheivlak

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 22:38

re SCM's oft-quoted statement, repeated here towards the end of the programme, about no one ever dying in a Ferrari because of a mechanical problem. Have not I read that the cause of Ascari's fatal accident while testing was because the wrong size tyres were being used before the proper tyres arrived?

Should we define that as a mechanical problem or rather as an organisational problem or something like that?

Anyway, I really liked it! Even though I'm pretty sceptical about the suggestion that Stirling would wrap up the 1962 WDC with a Ferrari V6.
But it showed the atmosphere of the time pretty well (I guess - only following motor sports since 1963!).

Edited by scheivlak, 27 December 2012 - 23:08.


#29 D-Type

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 22:38

~
PS - and I hope not a sour note, but re SCM's oft-quoted statement, repeated here towards the end of the programme, about no one ever dying in a Ferrari because of a mechanical problem. Have not I read that the cause of Ascari's fatal accident while testing was because the wrong size tyres were being used before the proper tyres arrived?

To be pedantic, does that count as a mechanical problem?

#30 Alan Cox

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 23:04

I enjoyed it; an hour well-spent. And produced in-house by the Beeb, too - something of a rarity these days.

#31 Mal9444

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 23:10

To be pedantic, does that count as a mechanical problem?
and the earlier

Should we define that as a mechanical problem or rather as an organisational problem or something like that?


Put it this way: the works prepped the car and got it ready for Ascari (to be pedantic, Castelloti) to drive. Ascari got into it in good faith and drove it. One of the tyres, which it would appear should never have been fitted, came off the rim, the car somersaulted, Ascari was thrown out and killed. It certainlydoesn't appear to have been driver error (which was the point Stirling was making) and I doubt that Ascari, had he had a moment to consider the question, would have worried too much about the distinction. The tyre coming off the rim sounds pretty like a mechanical problem to me.

:wave:

Edited by Mal9444, 27 December 2012 - 23:12.


#32 kayemod

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 23:14

The BBC repeat everything, so we'll get another chance before long, but any ideas when a repeat is scheduled? A minor domestic incident involving two Cairn terriers meant that I missed some of the first half, and knowing I'd be watching, I hadn't set the recorder, but the parts I saw were very good,I thought Patrick Stewart played his part well, an ideal foil for SCM.

Also, The Times has the Colin McRae programme tomorrow. I don't 'do' rallying, but I'm sure I heard a promise of Jackie Stewart tomorrow, which is right?

McRae mistake corrected. As it was a rallying error rather than a proper racing one, it doesn't really count though, does it?

Edited by kayemod, 28 December 2012 - 10:19.


#33 ghinzani

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 23:42

Also, The Times has the Graham McRae programme tomorrow. I don't 'do' rallying, but I'm sure I heard a promise of Jackie Stewart tomorrow, which is right?


now a Graham McRae programme Id be well up for watching! Although Im sure the Colin one will be better than tonights drivel as the bloke from X-men isnt in it.


#34 jonpollak

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 23:53

Now THAT'S the BBC I remember.
Where ya been Auntie?
Jp

#35 Sebastian Tombs

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 00:47

Thoroughly enjoyed it, well done Beeb (and Sir Patrick). That plus 'Restless Pt1' were the best 2.5 hours of telly this Christmas. Like a few others here I was AT the '55 BGP and grew up in the latter half of SCM's career. Picking the inevitable flies is just churlish.

ST :wave:

#36 dwh43scale

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:17

Watched and appreciated by three generations in this household - even youngest son who's claim to fame is that Sir Stirling nearly ran him over one day in the Paddock at Silverstone !

Must say, I did find Sir Patrick seem a little starstruck at times, though.

Bravo to the Beeb !

Edited by dwh43scale, 28 December 2012 - 08:45.


#37 Stephen W

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:44

The BBC repeat everything, so we'll get another chance before long, but any ideas when a repeat is scheduled? A minor domestic incident involving two Cairn terriers meant that I missed some of the first half, and knowing I'd be watching, I hadn't set the recorder, but the parts I saw were very good,I thought Patrick Stewart played his part well, an ideal foil for SCM.

Also, The Times has the Graham McRae programme tomorrow. I don't 'do' rallying, but I'm sure I heard a promise of Jackie Stewart tomorrow, which is right?


It is JYS tonight as I believe there is some contractual problem over the McRae programme which it is hoped will air later.

Back to the programme last night; nice to see Aintree in use and with some clever editing they managed to gloss over the missing bits of the track. I did notice the Vanwall blasting down the Finishing Straight in the original direction on a couple of occasions.

All in all nine out of ten for the effort.



#38 Mistron

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:33

I watched it with my wife last night - she is not in the slightest interested in motorsport, (but tolerates me)

We bothh enjoyed it, and it was nice to have a mix of the new footage for those who would make a point of watching, and remaining a watchable story for those who have no previous real knowledge of the subject - not an easy mix in 1hr, I should think.

Jennifer did mention that SM is certainly 'not lacking in self confidence', and wondered if he'd ever been wrong :lol: - I don't think he is the only racing driver with this trait. It will be interesting to see what she says after she's watched the one on (modest and humble) JYS :rotfl:

Hope the McRae one is aired soon, as of the 3 it's the one I'm most looking forward to as it should be a bit more subjective as the subject (sadly) won't be present. Not sure Sir Chris Hoys thighs will fit in a racing seat though!

#39 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:45

Yes it was very enjoyable and again, yes, Sir Patrick was extremely star struck although I'm sure I also would have been. And the infamous lift was used by both, wasn't it?

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#40 Alan Cox

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:13

Not sure Sir Chris Hoy's thighs will fit in a racing seat though!

Might be a tight fit in a single-seater, but watch out for his sports car exploits next year..
http://www.radicalsp...e...p;r=9&t=188

#41 Mallory Dan

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 12:24

I enjoyed it too, though I thought a little too much emphasis was placed on the, fairly tenuous, SCM/Ferrari connection. Does every racing-related prog on TV have to give attention to Ferrari??

#42 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 13:12

I thought it was really great. Why is it some many folk on forums these days are so nit picky!

#43 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 13:29

Umm, it's a ? not a ! :clap:

#44 ensign14

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 13:47

And it's "fora". Second declension neuter. ;)

#45 D-Type

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 14:08

And it's "fora". Second declension neuter.;)

I agree regarding the Latin word 'forum' - in Latin the plural is 'fora'. But the word 'forum' has been absorbed into English and in its Anglicised form the plural is therefore 'forums'. We talk of 'Messerchmitts' not 'Messerchmitten' and we say 'Opels' - the same logic should apply to 'forum'. (Incidentally 'Lotus' is also an English word so its plural is 'Lotuses' not the pseudo-Latin 'Loti').

As to the programme, I thought it was excellently presented and thoroughly enjoyed it. But the anorak in me asks why they can't iron out unnecessary factual errorsin the script. For example in Portugal Mike Hawthorn secured 6 points which enabled him to beat Moss by a single point, he did not secure a single point as the script stated.

#46 kayemod

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 14:27

We talk of 'Messerchmitts' not 'Messerchmitten'


Possibly not the best example there. Germans of my acqaintance have always referred auf Deutsch to "Messerschmitts" just as we Britischers do. The only difference is that in that period of European unpleasantness some years ago, they didn't usually need to add the word "Achtung!" in front of it.


#47 alansart

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 14:31

Just watched it on iPlayer and I'm encouraged that a BBC "In house" effort produced a well balanced programme that is of interest to us so called experts and Joe Public alike (my 24 year old daughter enjoyed it). Not perfect by any means but a damn good try which bodes well for the future. I didn't mind Patrick Stewart. Obviously an enthusiast who was enjoying every minute of it.

#48 ensign14

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 14:41

We talk of 'Messerchmitts' not 'Messerchmitten' and we say 'Opels' - the same logic should apply to 'forum'.

I call them Fokkers.

#49 Hse289

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 14:51

Thoroughly enjoyed it and it was nice to see Tony Brooks too. Looking forward to the other shows.

#50 kayemod

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 14:53

Thoroughly enjoyed it, well done Beeb (and Sir Patrick). That plus 'Restless Pt1' were the best 2.5 hours of telly this Christmas.


I'll apologise immediately for veering off-topic, but I have to agree with Sebastian on Restless, very well done and remarkably faithful to the original book, though necessarily massively shortened. An hour of the Greatest Living Englishman followed by an hour and a half of William Boyd at his best, wonderful. At the risk of becoming one of Derwent's nitpickers though, surely the truck that transported the heroine into the wilds of the Highlands some time in the 1930s, was a post WW2 example?