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'Racing Legends' - BBC2 - starting 27th December


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#51 David McKinney

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 16:31

That struck me too - a Morris-Commercial?

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#52 kayemod

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 16:47

That struck me too - a Morris-Commercial?


I think so, an LC5 one tonner, early 50s at the oldest, definitely not 1930s.


#53 bill p

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 17:24

I note that some 56 minutes into the feature the Vanwall appears as a "mirror image" and, no, I have not been Photoshopping!

Nevertheless, a most enjoyable hour

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#54 CoulthardD

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 20:48

What the hell is Form-le-a One?

DC

#55 dank

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 20:49

Less fawning in tonight's documentary (thankfully), but goodness me, could someone have told James Martin how to pronounce "formula" correctly?

#56 Coral

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 21:06

Well, according to my "TV Choice" magazine tonight's programme should have been about Colin McRae, but it was actually about Jackie Stewart. But never mind, it was still excellent, I really enjoyed it! I liked James Martin a lot, even if he can't pronounce "formula". As usual Sir Jackie came across as a real sweetie...I must admit I :cry: at the memorial benches in his garden.

#57 cpbell

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 21:08

Less fawning in tonight's documentary (thankfully), but goodness me, could someone have told James Martin how to pronounce "formula" correctly?


Well, he is from Yorkshire! :smoking: :p

We 'ad it 'ard, tha' knows

Edited by cpbell, 28 December 2012 - 21:09.


#58 Doug Nye

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 21:21

I note that some 56 minutes into the feature the Vanwall appears as a "mirror image" and, no, I have not been Photoshopping!

Nevertheless, a most enjoyable hour

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Take a prize for observation. I noticed this on the rough cut and listed it as an error. Despite bringing it to their notice the silly buggers still let it get right the way through to transmission. In the '60s I shared a house with four Beeb boffins. In those days BBC chaps were rigorously trained. The best was expected and if it wasn't delivered, heads could roll. This unit generally did very well. But this is by BBC standards, 2012... A pity.

DCN



#59 ensign14

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 21:28

I thought they did the reverse thing with the Vanwall because they needed to parallel shots from then and now. So if they had one of Stirling driving from right to left they needed one of Patrick doing likewise. There seemed to be an artistic reason for it.

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#60 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 21:32

Was anyone else a bit shocked by Helen Stewart's appearance? I hate to mention it but it shook me.

#61 ensign14

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 21:45

Was anyone else a bit shocked by Helen Stewart's appearance? I hate to mention it but it shook me.

She did look a bit, well, Pete Burns. :|

#62 hogstar

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 21:53

You can never have enough of JYS on T.V, even if the stories have been told a thousand times before. Love seeing the old Tyrrell, especially around Monza. You can't help but feel sentimental with the old footage and with so many 'what if's' with many racers no longer with us. Would love to see The Lost Generation made as a documentary, bringing it to a wider audience, but maybe too 'specialist' for the BBC?



#63 ghinzani

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 22:09

That was so much better than the Moss one, I guess because it was more about Stewart rather than the Moss one which was mostly about the pretentious actor hosting it. Id never seen this lad Martin tonight but he was really funny, self effacing and the bit with Jack Harvey was hilarious. Just a shame as others say he cant pronounce Formula.

I still think the respective Sky F1 documentaries with Steve Ryder were better though, and that original multi part series 10 or 15 years ago about Jackie trounded all of them.

Be interesting to see what they do about Colin Mcrae though, given his obvious and very sad absence.

And yes my Mrs noticed Helen Stewart had had some work done. Why do they do it? It never works.

#64 RS2000

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 22:20

It's rumoured that the McRae programme has been permanently pulled, not just postponed, for "legal reasons". Objections from the non-McRae crash victims' family?

James Martin seems to have learnt from his much-vilified (by enthusiasts) Mille Miglia programme image. (He even put in an appearance on the MCR forum when his ownership of 8EMO, which appeared briefly in this JYS film, was discussed).

Edited by RS2000, 28 December 2012 - 22:25.


#65 Phil Rainford

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 22:50

For me the scenes taken in Switzerland, the Italian Lakes and Monza were the highlights.........

PAR

#66 David McKinney

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 22:56

And getting back to Restless, tonight's episode had several postwar American cars, plus a postwar Triumph Roadster. Nor could I quite quite figure out the frequent appearance of an Austin, admittedly pre-war, in several wartime New York scenes. I though it was going to be a clue, but if so I missed it

#67 Allan Lupton

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 23:02

That was so much better than the Moss one, I guess because it was more about Stewart rather than the Moss one which was mostly about the pretentious actor hosting it.

I must have watched a different programme as I saw many tens of minutes of Mr Martin being taught by Jody Scheckter how to drive a BMW at Thruxton and driving a Tyrrell at Monza which I would therefore say was about him and not JYS.


#68 scheivlak

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 23:16

I must have watched a different programme as I saw many tens of minutes of Mr Martin being taught by Jody Scheckter how to drive a BMW at Thruxton and driving a Tyrrell at Monza which I would therefore say was about him and not JYS.

Many tens of minutes?
That must have been a different programme indeed.

#69 D-Type

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 23:25

Well, I would rate the Stewart programme as better than the Moss one.

Not sure what to make of the travelling through Georgia programme that followed it. Passable but I wouldn't recommend going out of your way to watch it.

#70 Sebastian Tombs

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 23:35

And getting back to Restless, tonight's episode had several postwar American cars, plus a postwar Triumph Roadster. Nor could I quite quite figure out the frequent appearance of an Austin, admittedly pre-war, in several wartime New York scenes. I though it was going to be a clue, but if so I missed it


For me the JYS programme was OK, but not in the Moss league, maybe because of Martin's irritating speech 'impediment'. That pronunciation of 'Formula' is as bad as saying Chris Hoy is good at suckling. B+ overall. Restless seemed to run out of budget. That Triumph roadster was just moronic props management. The mystery Austin 12 popped up twice again...very strange. Great story buggered up by totally unnecessary detail errors. When you see glaring errors in things one knows about one begins to wonder about things in which one is blissfully ignorant!

ST :wave:


#71 scheivlak

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 23:52

For me the JYS programme was OK, but not in the Moss league, maybe because of Martin's irritating speech 'impediment'.

I didn't notice that at all, if only because almost every native English speaker is just pretty bad when it comes to pronouncing vaguely foreign sounding words.

If you all just had the vaguest notion how bad almost every British commentator is when it comes to, say, Dutch or French words or names....

And what struck me far more than Helen's current look was how beautiful she was in her younger days. An unfair advantage if there ever was one.

Edited by scheivlak, 28 December 2012 - 23:52.


#72 LittleChris

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 00:48

If you all just had the vaguest notion how bad almost every British commentator is when it comes to, say, Dutch or French words or names....


A shame they no longer get the opportunity to try to correctly pronounce Scheivlak, Hondenvlak, Six Freres or Gravenoire ..... :(


#73 Vitesse2

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 08:23

Restless seemed to run out of budget. That Triumph roadster was just moronic props management. The mystery Austin 12 popped up twice again...very strange. Great story buggered up by totally unnecessary detail errors. When you see glaring errors in things one knows about one begins to wonder about things in which one is blissfully ignorant!

ST :wave:

Some of it was filmed in South Africa, which would presumably limit the number of "correct" vehicles available. ;)

#74 Rob29

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 09:09

Some of it was filmed in South Africa, which would presumably limit the number of "correct" vehicles available.;)

Yes,noticed this on the end titles-I thought the number of beutifly restored pre-war american cars was well done-though the switching between 1940s & 1970s scenes did have me confused.
Back to thread subject-were it not for this forum I guess I would have missed the Jackie Stewart prog-as I might not have bothered with the McRae one :wave:

#75 AAGR

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 09:49

It's rumoured that the McRae programme has been permanently pulled, not just postponed, for "legal reasons". Objections from the non-McRae crash victims' family?


RS2000 : If you always knew what you were commenting about, this would be a more compact Forum, I guess. The McRae profile has not been permanently pulled, and will appear in the New Year.

How do I know ? Well, does it help that I was involved in the making of the programme while you, I know, were not ?

GRAHAM R



#76 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 09:52

Gentleman, With respect some of you miss the point entirely. 'Restless' was a two-part drama not an excuse for rivet counters to get their knickers in a twist. When the producer is finally at the gates of St.Peter, will he be asked if that 2CV should have had square headlights or round ones? As it happened, my interest wained towards the end of the first episode. As the heroine jumped out of the window, she dropped her handbag, surely full of identification papers? I began to lose interest when so many things didn't add up, and then I realised not only didn't I care any more but was another example why I never read novels. 'Beutifly?', phew.

As for Helen Stewart, she was indeed an absolute stunner in the 60s and 70s but is now barely able to manage a smile. What a mistake.

Edited by Paul Rochdale, 29 December 2012 - 09:54.


#77 Giraffe

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 09:54

For me, the most enjoyable part of both the Moss & the Stewart programmes is following this, the resulting thread, as is the case when any motor sport related programme is broadcast. A most remarkable array of observation & comment........ :smoking:

Edited by Giraffe, 29 December 2012 - 09:54.


#78 brakedisc

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 10:42

RS2000 : If you always knew what you were commenting about, this would be a more compact Forum, I guess. The McRae profile has not been permanently pulled, and will appear in the New Year.

How do I know ? Well, does it help that I was involved in the making of the programme while you, I know, were not ?

GRAHAM R




So why was it pulled?

#79 Sharman

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:02

Well, I would rate the Stewart programme as better than the Moss one.

Not sure what to make of the travelling through Georgia programme that followed it. Passable but I wouldn't recommend going out of your way to watch it.


I think "contrived" sums it up. Marching Through Georgia I mean.

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#80 Mal9444

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:47

I thought they did the reverse thing with the Vanwall because they needed to parallel shots from then and now. So if they had one of Stirling driving from right to left they needed one of Patrick doing likewise. There seemed to be an artistic reason for it.


That would be right. Years ago I did a programme series with BBC 2 on the (British, obviously) East Coast Mainline, as it was then called. We were in Edinburgh for the Sunday afternnon ( a cruel joke on the part of the series planners) and waited for 4 hours for a shot of a train arriving. None did though in the period one train did leave. As it was by now getting too dark to shoot, we packed it in and when I asked if we would come back in the morning to get the shot the director simply said 'don't worry about it'. The programme aired - and no one noticed that on 'the train now arriving at Platform 2' the headlights were shining a bright red.


#81 retriever

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 14:02

I deliberately missed both presentations thinking it has all been done before. With both being the subject of a goodly number of programmes over time, I took the view as to what is the point of seeing more of the same.

However, given the comments here, may watch when they come around again.

Edited by retriever, 31 December 2012 - 16:19.


#82 Suzy

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 14:10

Well I really enjoyed both programmes. I watched the one on Sir Stirling Moss with some neighbours who were enthralled by it. They were totally appalled (as non motorsport followers) at the severity of some of the accidents and couldn't believe that he was still alive. They were also intrigued by the various cars and, when the Vanwall appeared, they were stunned. I've told them to come to Silverstone with me next year and see some Vanwalls for themselves.

The one on Sir Jackie Stewart was great too. And there was a nice plug for up-and-coming youngster Jack Harvey (current British F3 champion). For your information, Jack assures me that he DOES like playing with lego;)

#83 f1steveuk

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 15:30

Thank heavens I can get SKY in France!

The Moss programme was very good. I was always concerned that Stirling's address was such an open "secret", mind you the big "7" on the balcony is a bit of a give away, but it brought back some nice memories of my few visits there.

The Stewart programme was as good, apart from the very odd "form elee one" thing, but highlighted for me an oddity.

I understood the production company selecting a Vanwall and Aintree, as Monaco and a Lotus 18 would have be hard to arrange, but why a Tyrrell and Monza for James Martin (not that I would have complained if it were me of course!)? I know JYS' drive at Monza in 73 was staggering, and ensured the title, but no reference was made to it in the narrative, so it didn't make a lot of sense. An MS80 and the Nurburgring would as difficult as the 18 at Monaco, but maybe that's just the TV side of me coming out. As for my motor racing side, what were the chassis used? The Vanwall didn't look like VW10 and the Tyrrell didn't look like 006/2. Does anyone know which chassis were used?

#84 Longtimefan

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 17:31

Missed these when they were shown but I just watched them on iplayer.

Very good indeed, you could see the total joy and passion in Patrick Stewart, I rather dislike the other guy so I watched it up until he got near the Tyrrell, I find it personally disgusting he was allowed to drive such an iconic car, but that's besides the point.

Sir JYS has gone up even more on my respect, those benches he has on his land, in tribute to his lost friends, I found that very moving and its such a nice touch.

As for the silly cook guy, please for heavens sake learn how to pronounce 'formula'.



#85 Doug Nye

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 18:00

Dyslexia rules, OK? I must say I think some posts are a bit hard on Mr Martin, and I really find those about Helen Stewart bad mannered.

DCN

#86 Vitesse2

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 18:02

Dyslexia rules, OK? I must say I think some posts are a bit hard on Mr Martin, and I really find those about Helen Stewart bad mannered.

DCN

:up:

#87 john aston

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 18:28

I did smile at the predictable anorak stuff re Restless. I too noticed some errrors but honestly- it wasn't a bloody motoring documentary but a cracking good story. The book is far better however and I recommend it highly. Re Patrick Stewart-anything but pretentious I thought- more like star struck...

#88 cdrewett

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 18:38

I didn't notice that at all, if only because almost every native English speaker is just pretty bad when it comes to pronouncing vaguely foreign sounding words.

If you all just had the vaguest notion how bad almost every British commentator is when it comes to, say, Dutch or French words or names....


Because if you pronounce them properly you get accused of being pretentious like Pamela Stephenson on "Not the nine o'clock News"
Chris

#89 kayemod

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 18:54

I didn't notice that at all, if only because almost every native English speaker is just pretty bad when it comes to pronouncing vaguely foreign sounding words.

If you all just had the vaguest notion how bad almost every British commentator is when it comes to, say, Dutch or French words or names....


You're absolutely right, especially if you're talking about the public at large, and at times the mess that professionals like BBC newsreaders who should know better make of pronouncing non-UK place names etc is an absolute disgrace, but do you really think that 'your lot' are any better? From what I've heard of news broadcasts in French/German/Dutch/Danish/Italian etc, they are every bit as bad as ours.

#90 Pink Snail

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 19:01

Thanks Doug Nye for pointing out that the mis-pronounciation of Formula 1 may be due to the fact that JYS and JM both suffer from Dyslexia. This was a great programme about one of the greats of our sport being lauded by a true petrol head who also races in Historic circles and is a real enthusiast. I enjoyed the programme very much and and sure that we have not seen the last of such television material. Well done James and thanks to JYS for allowing us to reach into your life (yet again)! BTW people, does it matter about the lovely Helen, it is very clear that JYS and his lovely wife are still so much in love and have a wonderful life together. Happy New Year one and all!! :wave:

#91 hogstar

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 19:18

I saw the Moss one today on i-player and is the better of the two aired so far. Patrick Stewart seems totally in awe of Moss and his love of cars is there for all to see. The only surprise from the programme is Moss' opinion that he would of raced until his 50's had he had not had the accident in '62. That would of meant he would of raced until the early 1980's! At the absolute limit, I couldn't see him racing beyond the early/mid '70's, so I fear he was being beyond optimistic!

One can imagine that even in his 80's, Moss doesn't have too much trouble finding 'female companionship'... :)

#92 E.B.

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 19:44

The only surprise from the programme is Moss' opinion that he would of raced until his 50's had he had not had the accident in '62. That would of meant he would of raced until the early 1980's! At the absolute limit, I couldn't see him racing beyond the early/mid '70's, so I fear he was being beyond optimistic!


He gets asked that a lot, and usually says he'd have liked to have kept going until his late 40s - maybe not all that unfeasible when you consider that the older Graham Hill kept going until 1975, despite that terrible Watkins Glen crash.

It's a mouth watering "what if" though, to have seen Moss versus Clark, Stewart, Rindt, Peterson, even Lauda :drunk:





#93 Allan Lupton

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 19:46

I must have watched a different programme as I saw many tens of minutes of Mr Martin being taught by Jody Scheckter how to drive a BMW at Thruxton and driving a Tyrrell at Monza which I would therefore say was about him and not JYS.

Many tens of minutes?
That must have been a different programme indeed.

OK perhaps it just seemed like many. Went back to the recording and found
BMW/Scheckter 5 m 10s
Two-seater "F1" car 3m 50s
Tyrrell/Monza 4m 50s
so just under 14 minutes, or 23% of a one hour programme.

#94 LotusElise

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 23:42

I wish the BBC would stop persevering with James Martin as a motorsport presenter. He is overbearing and annoying. Also, dyslexia does not cause speech impediments or poor diction; JYS for example is always well-spoken, despite having quite severe dyslexia.

Having said that, JYS himself was engaging as ever, and it was good to see all that old footage, the cars, and the really quite heartbreaking drama that accompanied the end of his career.

I hope that some sort of settlement or edit is possible for the Hoy/McRae programme, as I was really looking forward to it.

#95 monoposto

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 00:18

Take a prize for observation. I noticed this on the rough cut and listed it as an error. Despite bringing it to their notice the silly buggers still let it get right the way through to transmission. In the '60s I shared a house with four Beeb boffins. In those days BBC chaps were rigorously trained. The best was expected and if it wasn't delivered, heads could roll. This unit generally did very well. But this is by BBC standards, 2012... A pity.

DCN



Sloppy too, to have shown a 'reversed' photo of a young Moss.

#96 ryan86

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 00:40

I found them both a very enjoyable way of spending an hour and whilst they weren't flawless, they were much worse ways I could have spent the evening. I might be wrong, but yesterdays episode may have contained the first time I'd ever heard Francois Cevert speak.

#97 Sebastian Tombs

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:02

I wish the BBC would stop persevering with James Martin as a motorsport presenter. He is overbearing and annoying. Also, dyslexia does not cause speech impediments or poor diction; JYS for example is always well-spoken, despite having quite severe dyslexia.

Having said that, JYS himself was engaging as ever, and it was good to see all that old footage, the cars, and the really quite heartbreaking drama that accompanied the end of his career.

I hope that some sort of settlement or edit is possible for the Hoy/McRae programme, as I was really looking forward to it.


+1 :up:

ST :wave:


#98 Sharman

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 08:35

I wish the BBC would stop persevering with James Martin as a motorsport presenter. He is overbearing and annoying. Also, dyslexia does not cause speech impediments or poor diction; JYS for example is always well-spoken, despite having quite severe dyslexia.

Having said that, JYS himself was engaging as ever, and it was good to see all that old footage, the cars, and the really quite heartbreaking drama that accompanied the end of his career.

I hope that some sort of settlement or edit is possible for the Hoy/McRae programme, as I was really looking forward to it.


As a Lancastrian it is obvious to me that James Martin has pronunciation problem. He's from Yorkshire.

#99 Pink Snail

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:07

Ouch!!! Yorkshire - Lancashire....who knows what thats all about. Most Lancashire folk av err on therr edds. Ovver `ere in Gods own county we have our slight variations on speech etc. James Martin on the whole is a very well spoken Yorkshireman without losing his home tongue. JYS is well spoken and never lost the Sottish tinge in his voice. :rolleyes:
All the same, the BBC have done us Nostalgia fans proud - giving us some TV space over the break - a nice stepping stone during the off season. :love:

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#100 cdrewett

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 15:23

Ouch!!! Yorkshire - Lancashire....who knows what thats all about. Most Lancashire folk av err on therr edds. Ovver `ere in Gods own county we have our slight variations on speech etc. James Martin on the whole is a very well spoken Yorkshireman without losing his home tongue. JYS is well spoken and never lost the Sottish tinge in his voice. :rolleyes:
All the same, the BBC have done us Nostalgia fans proud - giving us some TV space over the break - a nice stepping stone during the off season. :love:


I think he was saying "Formerly One" meaning formerly one of the great sports and full of sportsmanship, as opposed to being a snakepit of commercial interests. Well done James.