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'Racing Legends' - BBC2 - starting 27th December


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#101 David McKinney

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 17:20

I'm sure you're right Chris

I thought he was saying "formally one" but your explanation makes much more sense :)

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#102 condor

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 18:28

His pronunciation of Formula or Formulia seemed to totally pass by me - I thought both programs were good and enjoyed immensely :)

#103 Paul Hurdsfield

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 18:52

Dyslexia rules, OK? I must say I think some posts are a bit hard on Mr Martin, and I really find those about Helen Stewart bad mannered.

DCN


:up: Yes Doug, and he mentioned it early on in the show, maybe the critics should have paid more attention, I picked up on it and straight away put it down to his 'condition'.
As for the comment on Helen, luckily we're all getting older (unlike some of the drivers mentioned) and some are wearing better than others, maybe the knockers should take a long hard look in a mirror :rolleyes:

#104 kayemod

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 18:54

As a Lancastrian it is obvious to me that James Martin has pronunciation problem. He's from Yorkshire.


As a Yorkshireman with a Wigan-born wife, I'll let that one pass me by, but I think some of you are being a little unfair to TV cook James Martin, his own achievements must surely rank at a level comparable to Sir Jackie's, though I don't think he managed to win his own title three times. Many of you won't know that Mr Martin is the reigning World Carrot-Chopping Champion no less, check that ultimate source Wikipedia if you don't believe me. There, I bet that's silenced a few of his detractors, especially those who've said that his presenting skills aren't worth a carrot.


#105 VWV

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 19:38

As a Yorkshireman with a Wigan-born wife, I'll let that one pass me by, but I think some of you are being a little unfair to TV cook James Martin, his own achievements must surely rank at a level comparable to Sir Jackie's, though I don't think he managed to win his own title three times. Many of you won't know that Mr Martin is the reigning World Carrot-Chopping Champion no less, check that ultimate source Wikipedia if you don't believe me. There, I bet that's silenced a few of his detractors, especially those who've said that his presenting skills aren't worth a carrot.


The way this thread has gone off on a tangent reminds me of the Top Gear scene where a bunch of young punks are racing a modern hatch against a bunch of old farts racing a old bugeye sprite up a hill climb course. Guess which group I am reminded of by the whiney TNF'ers in this thread.

I have not watched the 2 episodes yet but I am grateful of any new shows I can watch that interest me in this modern 21st century media that caters to the lowest common denominator.

I guess my reply to this thread shows my diversity training that I had to take at work this year :cat:

Happy New Year to one and all :drunk:


#106 Sebastian Tombs

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 20:13

The way this thread has gone off on a tangent reminds me of the Top Gear scene where a bunch of young punks are racing a modern hatch against a bunch of old farts racing a old bugeye sprite up a hill climb course. Guess which group I am reminded of by the whiney TNF'ers in this thread.


VWV would do well to remember that vintage and thoroughbred racing machinery is frequently capable of out-performing run of the mill modern dross while maintaining elegance and precision. :smoking:

ST :wave:

#107 VWV

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 20:18

VWV would do well to remember that vintage and thoroughbred racing machinery is frequently capable of out-performing run of the mill modern dross while maintaining elegance and precision. :smoking:

ST :wave:


Who won the race was not the point I was making, it was the behavior and manerisms of the two groups.

For the record I was cheering for the old farts when watching the episode.

Edited by VWV, 30 December 2012 - 20:20.


#108 nicanary

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 20:21

VWV would do well to remember that vintage and thoroughbred racing machinery is frequently capable of out-performing run of the mill modern dross while maintaining elegance and precision. :smoking:

ST :wave:


That's exactly what Catherine Deneuve said to me last night as I said "adieu".......


#109 Sebastian Tombs

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 21:02

That's exactly what Catherine Deneuve said to me last night as I said "adieu".......


In her Morgan of course :love:

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ST :wave:


#110 arttidesco

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 21:15

I gather a 3 time world champion carrot chopper has been on telly with Sir JYS, if that brings motorsport to a bigger audience I am all for it, but I'm afraid it will not increase my interest in carrot chopping one iota  ;)

#111 scheivlak

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 22:52

but do you really think that 'your lot' are any better? From what I've heard of news broadcasts in French/German/Dutch/Danish/Italian etc, they are every bit as bad as ours.

Did I postulate that? :confused: :drunk:

Apart from that, I find it quite funny to see myself included in a 'your lot' category that includes "French/German/Dutch/Danish/Italian" - you most certainly must have a high opinion about European integration :p

Edited by scheivlak, 30 December 2012 - 22:52.


#112 nicanary

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 11:38

In her Morgan of course :love:

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ST :wave:


Hand-built for the pleasure of connoisseurs. And the Morgan's nice. Apols for being briefly sexist, but Ms. Deneuve is the sort of lady who makes me roll my eyes heavenward and mutter "Thank You"......


#113 Mal9444

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 11:39

I enjoyed both programmes enormously - and so did Mrs M, who is not at all interested in motor sport. She is personally acquainted with SCM, however, is a big fan of Saint Patrick Stewart and is both a very keen cook and an avid watcher of any programme that involves chopping carrots (though she does not particularly rate James Martin). My point being that, and has been mentioned earlier by others, by virtue of the format adopted those of us who are enthusiasts enjoyed some good prime-viewing-time Nostalgia footage that otherwise simply would not have been aired. Sadly, it seems that no subject now, from history to arithmetic by way of the industrial revolution and modern technology, is deemed by our programme makers to be capable of standing on its own two feet but instead requires a Celebrity to make it interesting. At least we were spared Dara O'Brein, Rory McGrath and Gryff Rees-Bloody-Jones!

As to the programme content, I of course enjoyed the Moss programme because I know him (and even built one of the models that appeared so briefly behind his right ear!) but was perhaps even better served by the JYS programme, having by his time ceased following grand prix racing after Moss's retirement and then Jim Clark's death. My contemporary knowledge of JYS was more of the 'How do you find Jackie Stewart's house? Fly to Geneva and then just follow the Armco.'

It was especially interesting to see that two of the most pungent critics of his efforts to stop drivers being killed on a regular basis were two of this forum's dieties: the aforementioned Moss and the sainted Jenks. Interesting, too, that when those criticisms were being alluded to, and in contrast to every other authority and/or celebrity contributing, Jenks, though quoted, was not named. Up came a picture - but did you notice there was no identifying caption?

Like others I found the memorial benches a bit spooky but otherwise was glad of the insight.

I, like DCN, have actually been quite shocked to see in this normally polite and flame-free forum the downright rude comments made about Jackie Stewart's wife and feel strongly that they simply have no place here. Thank Heaven that Susie became such a central part of Moss's life only after his reitrement and had thus no relevance to the subject matter of the programme and so has been spared such boorishness.

AND FINALLY... I wonder how many of those here who have been sneering at James Martin could make such a decent fist of driving a Grand Prix car at their first attempt, even one from the 'Seventies.

I look forward to the Colin McRae programme, if it makes it, and gaining a similar insight into the achievements of someone of whom, as yet, I know very little.


#114 Sebastian Tombs

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:55

I, like DCN, have actually been quite shocked to see in this normally polite and flame-free forum the downright rude comments made about Jackie Stewart's wife and feel strongly that they simply have no place here. Thank Heaven that Susie became such a central part of Moss's life only after his reitrement and had thus no relevance to the subject matter of the programme and so has been spared such boorishness.

AND FINALLY... I wonder how many of those here who have been sneering at James Martin could make such a decent fist of driving a Grand Prix car at their first attempt, even one from the 'Seventies.


This is an internet forum not the inner sanctum of the Royal Thames YC. As such it will reflect a wide cross-section of what is considered acceptable social comment from around the globe, some of which, I am afraid, may not comply with your, or indeed my, own standards. I recall similar vituperative outpourings about the organisation and commentary regarding the 'Jubilee Pageant' in the sailing and boating community!

As for your remarks after the shouting...I would hazard a guess quite a few.

ST :wave:


#115 IanG

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 13:26

As a Lancastrian I had no problem with either of the two programmes, even though both "celebs" were Yarskshire folk. The whole point surely is to bring an insight of these great drivers to the attention of the masses and not to pander to the nit picking views of us die hards.
Of the two, I particularly enjoyed the JYS one, and at least James Martin put up a reasonable attempt of driving an F1 car. Just think of some of the people regularly seen on BBC motoring programmes, who they could have had, no doubt with shots of the car careering off the end of a runway!
Although I follow F1 with interest, I am far more of a Rally aficionado, and in that respect I am looking forward to the Colin McRae episode. Thanks to Mr. Robson for putting the record straight so succinctly in a previous post.
Having said that, there is a worry that there may be some unsavoury comments appearing on this thread after the programme is aired, judging by the ones that have already appeared relating to speech impediments and the like.
If Colin’s dad, Jim, makes an appearance during the programme, there will be no need to make any reference to “how old he looks since I last saw him”.
We competed on an historic rally last year after quite a long period of time , looked at each other and remarked as to what two old farts such as us could still beat all but one of the opposition. It must be experience because it certainly isn’t vitality or good looks. Not on my part anyway.

May I take this opportunity to wish our Worldwide members a very Happy, and more importantly, healthy New Year


#116 f1steveuk

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 15:54

Just in case I have been included in the list of those "whining" about James Martin, let me just lay out my stall!

I worked with him briefly as part of a production, that was finally reduced to a written article from a TV programme. He has dyslexia, not a speech impediment. Dyslexia does not affect how you pronounce words (my son has it as well as dyspraxia). My son did have trouble pronouncing words like "nuclear" and "anglia", but has taught himself to pronounce them correctly, but it was not a problem caused by either condition. Sadly, in James Martin's case, it appears it is simply a case of how 'he' pronounces it, like an Irishman insisting on saying "filum" for the word film.

While working at Mr Martin's, I noted he had no problem saying any word, including "formula" !!!

I would hope he did make a good job of driving a formula one car, it wasn't his first time! He did, for some time own a Jordan, an F3000 and several other single seat cars, and drove them all. That said, as a racing driver, he is a very good chef ! (I liked him, honest, we got on well, he can drive, but he isn't a "racer"). Hope that clarifies my postion.

I was immensely grateful to see my favourite racing car on the telly, so I am certainly not complaining, I'm just still keen to know what particular chassis' were used.

#117 James Page

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 16:03

Haven't seen the Moss one yet, but I enjoyed the Stewart one very much.

My only thought was that it could have done with more JYS and less of James Martin driving around Thruxton. And at Monza, Martin must have got the Tyrrell's DFV on the cam at some point, but the cameras seemed to have missed it. I'm only jealous, though...

As somebody has already said, I think it's the first time I'd heard Cevert's voice. Some of the archive stuff was excellent.

Full marks to the Beeb for giving us something decent to watch over Christmas.

#118 Gabrci

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 18:34

I have downloaded and watched them both and liked them both, although of course for us anoraks we have heard all these stories many times. The only aspect I disliked was the actor who hosted the Moss one, although Sir Stirling, ever the gentleman, was of course his usual very likeable self.

#119 Phil Rainford

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 19:26

Two quality motor racing programmes for the Christmas period........what more could we wish for?

Better that watching the " Sound of Music and the " Great Escape " for the 147th time :)


PAR

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#120 kayemod

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 19:37

Two quality motor racing programmes for the Christmas period........what more could we wish for?


Absolutely right, and I enjoyed them both as well, but I really don't think this is anorak style carping, the whole point of this thread is that with no added expenditure, both could have been significantly better with very little effort from those responsible. I suppose we shoulds be grateful that they didn't pick someone like Graham Norton to present them, just think of the innuendo possibilities. I wonder what Jackie Stewart is like at slicing carrots?

#121 f1steveuk

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 21:11

Two quality motor racing programmes for the Christmas period........what more could we wish for?

Better that watching the " Great Escape " for the 147th time :)


PAR



Really? Was it on again? Did Steve get over the fence this year?

#122 Sharman

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 21:34

That's exactly what Catherine Deneuve said to me last night as I said "adieu".......

You haven't had her as well have you? I thought I was unique, at 75 I'm not sure about the spelling.

#123 nicanary

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 10:19

You haven't had her as well have you? I thought I was unique, at 75 I'm not sure about the spelling.


You're old enough (just) to be my father.

I finally got round to watching the Moss episode last night whilst waiting for midnight, and enjoyed it insomuch as it was a documentary for nostalgists, and we don't get many of them. On the whole, it wasn't a bad effort - the usual minor errors in clip selection etc.. I really don't understand why they bothered with the driving tuition from Tiff Needell when it must have been evident to all that Stewart wouldn't be driving fast enough for understeer to take place. And why let him drive the car at all?

I know that several members of this forum are acquainted with the Great Man, unlike myself, and I can only go by what I have gleaned from books and film, but my impression is that he "likes to please", in the sense that he is a gentleman with manners. He is also "savvy" with the needs of the media. So I have made allowances in my mind, but I am still baffled by the assertation that he may have been "in with a chance" for the World Championship in 1962. Much was made of the fact that Ferraris had strength from the safety aspect, but cars were still notoriously unreliable back then, even when prepared by Alf Francis.

My own belief, which I suspect is shared by many, is that SM would have won races where driver-ability was at a premium (just as in 1961) but up against the Climax and BRM V8s at faster circuits he would have had to work hard to get decent places. I reckon ,at best, 3rd in the table behind Hill and Clark. I don't understand why that chat in Maranello was necessary for programming purposes - all pointless supposition.

Nice travelogue for Italy, though.


#124 Stephen W

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:48

Better that watching the " Sound of Music and the " Great Escape " for the 147th time :)


You are a lot older than I thought Rainford - 147 times - I'm only up to 12!

:wave:

#125 Phil Rainford

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 12:03

Really? Was it on again? Did Steve get over the fence this year?


He went through it this time......... he managed to get hold of his Mustang from "Bullitt"


PAR

#126 Charlieman

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 19:51

My only thought was that it could have done with more JYS and less of James Martin driving around Thruxton.


The teaching sessions in both programmes provided context about driving the F1 car for a non-expert audience. In the case of the Vanwall, it was about using enough welly to counteract understeer without a spin -- it was a summary of one chapter in DSJ's The Racing Driver.

For what it's worth, my opinion of both programmes is that they were excellent entertainment. The fact that they have not been shot to pieces by rivet counters suggests that the producers achieved a happy compromise for viewers.

#127 Glengavel

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:36

The teaching sessions in both programmes provided context about driving the F1 car for a non-expert audience. In the case of the Vanwall, it was about using enough welly to counteract understeer without a spin -- it was a summary of one chapter in DSJ's The Racing Driver.

For what it's worth, my opinion of both programmes is that they were excellent entertainment. The fact that they have not been shot to pieces by rivet counters suggests that the producers achieved a happy compromise for viewers.


My only quibble is that you don't see Martin getting to grips with the Tyrrell. He surely just didn't turn up and knock off 15 laps without some sort of learning curve?


#128 Peter Morley

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:42

My only quibble is that you don't see Martin getting to grips with the Tyrrell. He surely just didn't turn up and knock off 15 laps without some sort of learning curve?


Given he used to have a Jordan F1 (which he might not have driven) and drove one of Paul Osborn's V10 F1 cars in a previous tv programme he already had some experience of driving fast single seaters.
But watching the programme I kept wondering if there weren't two people driving the car - rearward facing in car shots showed the trees passing fairly slowly while in some of the outside shots that didn't show his face the Tyrrell was clearly going a lot faster.
Was Stig Hall possibly driving the car in some sequences?

I thought both programmes were amongst the best shown over the holiday period (not that there was much competition) and at least as good as most programmes about old cars.

#129 Glengavel

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:51

Given he used to have a Jordan F1 (which he might not have driven) and drove one of Paul Osborn's V10 F1 cars in a previous tv programme he already had some experience of driving fast single seaters.
But watching the programme I kept wondering if there weren't two people driving the car - rearward facing in car shots showed the trees passing fairly slowly while in some of the outside shots that didn't show his face the Tyrrell was clearly going a lot faster.
Was Stig Hall possibly driving the car in some sequences?

I thought both programmes were amongst the best shown over the holiday period (not that there was much competition) and at least as good as most programmes about old cars.


Or even some ex-racing driver type who just happened to be hanging around...

Edited by Glengavel, 09 January 2013 - 12:52.


#130 kayemod

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 13:09

Or even some ex-racing driver type who just happened to be hanging around...


Highly likely I'd have thought, these aren't cars for amateurs, even reasonably competent ones. I suppose it would have devalued the presenter's 'celeb' status if the BBC had admitted to anything like that, I suspected as much when Patrick Stewart was driving the Vanwall. At the time I was impressed how well he coped with a car that must have been difficult even by 1950s standards, but maybe..?


#131 Mistron

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 21:19

Did anyone else catch the BBCs latest Motoring offering on Sunday night?
http://www.bbc.co.uk...arth_Episode_1/

of course it had seemingly obligatory tension of impending deadlines stressed every so often, but otherwise quite enjoyable, with some decent archive footage from Bonneville in years gone by.

#132 D-Type

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 21:54

Since I know next to nothing about the Bonneville scene I was able to sit back and enjoy it and not get infuriated by the sloppy bits and trivial inaccuracies (I'm sure they were there as I still noticed a shot of Bluebird with crossed Union Jack and Australian flag on the nose, presumably from Lake Eyre.) I will definitely be watching next week's episode.

#133 Vitesse2

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 22:04

Since I know next to nothing about the Bonneville scene I was able to sit back and enjoy it and not get infuriated by the sloppy bits and trivial inaccuracies (I'm sure they were there as I still noticed a shot of Bluebird with crossed Union Jack and Australian flag on the nose, presumably from Lake Eyre.) I will definitely be watching next week's episode.

There were plenty, Duncan. Film of Goldie Gardner but no mention of him, nothing about Ab Jenkins (who deserves a programme of his own), precious little about the epic battles between Cobb and Eyston (so does that!). The impression given that nothing happened there between 1914 and 1948 ...

But still enjoyable, thanks to an engaging bunch of "blokes in sheds". :up:

#134 LotusElise

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 13:37

Highly likely I'd have thought, these aren't cars for amateurs, even reasonably competent ones. I suppose it would have devalued the presenter's 'celeb' status if the BBC had admitted to anything like that, I suspected as much when Patrick Stewart was driving the Vanwall. At the time I was impressed how well he coped with a car that must have been difficult even by 1950s standards, but maybe..?


I can understand this a bit. No-one really wants to watch someone trundling round, flubbing the gear changes and making the engine make strange noises. It's boring for casual viewers, and gives enthusiasts the rage. Likewise, if JM had crashed the Tyrell, as well as the obvious safety concerns, the historic community would come after him with pitchforks.

#135 D.M.N.

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 21:55

According to a few tweets, McRae's episode is being shown on Sunday 27th January - haven't seen it official though

#136 Vitesse2

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 22:39

According to a few tweets, McRae's episode is being shown on Sunday 27th January - haven't seen it official though

10 pm according to Radio Times. Only appeared on their schedule today. Although it doesn't say who it is.

#137 mfd

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 00:38

10 pm according to Radio Times. Only appeared on their schedule today. Although it doesn't say who it is.

I still don't get this - Moss & Stewart, can be considered legends & more importantly survivors so it makes sense. They can be included in the programme to show their personal point of view.
McRae - doesn't fit this pattern. All they can do in the programme is discuss his career retrospectively. It would fit if it was part of a series that included, such as Villeneuve, Senna ie a dead hero.

#138 Stephen W

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:38

I still don't get this - Moss & Stewart, can be considered legends & more importantly survivors so it makes sense. They can be included in the programme to show their personal point of view.
McRae - doesn't fit this pattern. All they can do in the programme is discuss his career retrospectively. It would fit if it was part of a series that included, such as Villeneuve, Senna ie a dead hero.


I suspect with it being the BBC it would concentrate on British Legends, in which case maybe you should be asking why not Clark, Graham Hill, Hunt & Hawthorn?



#139 kayemod

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:50

I suspect with it being the BBC it would concentrate on British Legends, in which case maybe you should be asking why not Clark, Graham Hill, Hunt & Hawthorn?


If the BBC thought that they needed a British Legends programme featuring a rally driver, who could they pick? Jackie and Stirling are very well recognised, even to non-racing enthusiasts, but stop people in the street at random and ask them to name a British rally driver, I think you'd have to waste a good few hours doing that before you received a single suggestion. I suspect that even if you did strike gold, Paddy Hopkirk's name would be more likely to come up than any of the McRaes. Rallying generally has such a low profile with the general UK public that it's all but invisible.


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#140 nmansellfan

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:44

Rallying generally has such a low profile with the general UK public that it's all but invisible.


Hence hopefully the McRae programme will raise some public awareness about how he is rightly called a legend in enthusiast circles.

Agree with you on the profile of rallying these days kayemod - the UK doesn't even have a TV deal to show the Monte this year!



#141 chdphd

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:54

If the BBC thought that they needed a British Legends programme featuring a rally driver, who could they pick? Jackie and Stirling are very well recognised, even to non-racing enthusiasts, but stop people in the street at random and ask them to name a British rally driver, I think you'd have to waste a good few hours doing that before you received a single suggestion. I suspect that even if you did strike gold, Paddy Hopkirk's name would be more likely to come up than any of the McRaes. Rallying generally has such a low profile with the general UK public that it's all but invisible.

I reckon a few hours is stretching it a bit. A lot of young people will have played the Colin McRae Rally console games.

#142 mfd

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 15:50

I suspect with it being the BBC it would concentrate on British Legends, in which case maybe you should be asking why not Clark, Graham Hill, Hunt & Hawthorn?

Take your point Stephen, I'd not thought of it like that, however two F1 drivers (alive) & one rally driver (not) seem to me an odd mix. Perhaps it should have been John Surtees for the third programme?

#143 sterling49

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 17:10

If the BBC thought that they needed a British Legends programme featuring a rally driver, who could they pick? Jackie and Stirling are very well recognised, even to non-racing enthusiasts, but stop people in the street at random and ask them to name a British rally driver, I think you'd have to waste a good few hours doing that before you received a single suggestion. I suspect that even if you did strike gold, Paddy Hopkirk's name would be more likely to come up than any of the McRaes. Rallying generally has such a low profile with the general UK public that it's all but invisible.



But it was not always so invisible, in the giddy days of the Works Minis and Escorts, it had a huge following and most people knew the likes of Paddy and Roger Clark, especially after the '72 and '76 R.A.C. Rallies. The lack of TV coverage now probably accounts for the lack of manufacturer interest and hence Ford taking away support from Malcom Wilson's M Sport, a sad state of affairs for the sport, very sad.

#144 D-Type

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 17:44

But in those days "Paddy Hopkirk's Mini" or "Roger Clark's Escort" were far closer to the showroom model than "Sebastien Loeb's Citroen". The customer could identify with the rally cars while now the perception is that only the name, the general shape and maybe the engine block are the same and the rest are special parts. "Win on Sunday - sell on Monday" no longer applies.

Edited by D-Type, 17 January 2013 - 20:09.


#145 kayemod

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 19:51

But in those days "Paddy Hopkirk's Mini" or "Roger Clark's Escort" were far closer to the showroom model than "Sebastien Loeb's Citroen". The customer could identify with the rally cars while now the perception is that the only the name, the general shape and maybe the engine block are the same and the rest are special parts. "Win on Sunday - sell on Monday" no longer applies.


All perfectly true, and I'd say it's the main reason why rallying attracts so little attention these days outside the specialist motoring press, the sport has lost its way as far as many are concerned. In recent years, the only mention of Colin McRae I've seen in the national media has been in connection with his helicoptering, and that's not intended as a bad taste dig.

Edit, a minor malapropism corrected...

Edited by kayemod, 18 January 2013 - 09:51.


#146 IanG

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 22:06

All perfectly true, and I'd say it's the main reason why rallying attracts so little attention these days outside the specialist motoring press, the sport has lost its way as far as many are concerned. In recent years, the only mention of Graham McRae I've seen in the national media has been in connection with his helicoptering, and that's not intended as a bad taste dig.


Well as mainly a rally fan I have to say I am looking forward to it.
Also as a rally fan I still enjoyed the previous episodes with James Stewart and Kate Moss.

#147 Glengavel

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 22:15

All perfectly true, and I'd say it's the main reason why rallying attracts so little attention these days outside the specialist motoring press, the sport has lost its way as far as many are concerned. In recent years, the only mention of Graham McRae I've seen in the national media has been in connection with his helicoptering, and that's not intended as a bad taste dig.


coughColincough

Edited by Glengavel, 17 January 2013 - 22:15.


#148 sterling49

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 22:18

Well as mainly a rally fan I have to say I am looking forward to it.
Also as a rally fan I still enjoyed the previous episodes with James Stewart and Kate Moss.



:lol: :lol: :rotfl:

#149 RS2000

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 22:55

"Racing Legends" - and one of three chosen was a rally driver??
This is Britain and we speak English, not one of most other languages that verbally combine racing and rallying (and we still have very important legal/regulatory reasons for splitting the two).

Fortunately we now know the first two programmes were good (or as good as we can expect from the general media) - because otherwise the actual selection against the series title would not bode well.

Hopkirk's fame- inducing Cooper S from the 64 Monte, "much closer to showroom"? Certainly (but compare it with Hopkirk's 68 Monte Cooper S and the comparison is not so valid) but Clark's Escort? Not all that much closer than the cars of today (the devil is in the detailed work rather than the outwardly visible spec.).

McRae C. later displayed traits that converted him from hero to zero in many eyes. Some would even argue his relationships with co-drivers, compared to such contemporaries as Sainz/Moya, meant he was a few years too late and his individualism was more suited temperamentally to the era of "blind" British rallies.
However, writing this not a million miles from where the sainted S.C.Moss was banned for causing a head on collision, and having recently seen contemporary local reports, also taints the legend there too.

Are there many true personal "heros" at the top in motorsport? (or any other sport for that matter). Is not success dependent on a hard streak that makes most such individuals tainted/unattractive persons? Stands back for the list of exceptions, starting with Clark J....


#150 kayemod

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 23:16

coughColincough


Sorry, an unfortunate slip of the keyboard, though it might also reveal my au faitness or lack thereof with modern rallying.