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'Racing Legends' - BBC2 - starting 27th December


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#351 Gary C

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:37

in the aftermath of my recent Lotus 72 documentary...............I contacted a TV station in Australia to see if they would be interested in taking it. The reply finally came back after 2 months of waiting (at my prompting, I hasten to add) that they they liked it but couldn't take one half hour programme and would prefer a series, of which could I produce? I, of course, said I could produce a series, I put together a 6-7 car 'wishlist' (easily gettable within the the UK), but DID mention I would need a budget to produce the series.
I haven't heard from them since..............

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#352 D.M.N.

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 10:03

Bump - second series starts tonight with Barry Sheene. Episodes 2 and 3 (dates TBC) features Graham Hill and John Surtees.



#353 LotusElise

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 15:26

I never knew that Vic Reeves/Jim Moir was interested in motorbikes. This one could be interesting...



#354 kayemod

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 16:54

I never knew that Vic Reeves/Jim Moir was interested in motorbikes. This one could be interesting...

 

Agreed, it's good when someone we don't expect does something like this. In the past some have turned out to be really good at it, and almost anything is better than an over-enthusiastic arm waving product of the 'TV Presenters School' like Dan Snow is let loose on the subject, or even worse, the ubiquitous Clare Balding.



#355 Vitesse2

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 16:08

Bump - second series starts tonight with Barry Sheene. Episodes 2 and 3 (dates TBC) features Graham Hill and John Surtees.

Well, the Graham Hill one - with Jeremy Irons - has switly gone from  'TBC' to 'tonight' - 9pm, BBC2.



#356 Allan Lupton

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 19:00

Well, the Graham Hill one - with Jeremy Irons - has switly gone from  'TBC' to 'tonight' - 9pm, BBC2.

I see it features a "re-enactment" of one of NGH's races. What good does that do anyone, even the members of the non-specialist public?



#357 h4887

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 20:25

I see it features a "re-enactment" of one of NGH's races. What good does that do anyone, even the members of the non-specialist public?

I just hope they don't refer to him as NGH :mad:



#358 Vitesse2

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 22:07

What a splendid tribute! Hardly a foot wrong - I noticed just two minor errors - and absolutely wonderful to see Bette, Brigitte and Samantha taking part.

 

Funnily enough,the last three words uttered by Jeremy Irons - "You lucky bugger!" - were the exact ones I uttered when I realised at the beginning that he had been able to drive both the P61 and the 49!



#359 Coral

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 22:11

Just watched this and thought it was really good! I have always liked Jeremy Irons...I never knew he was a fan of motorsport. And yes, it was great to see Bette, Brigitte and Samantha taking part, as well as Damon of course...and Murray Walker! :)



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#360 dwh43scale

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 22:17

Where did he drive the 49 ?



#361 Macca

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 22:40

Looked a bit like Croft?

 

 

Paul M



#362 kayemod

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 23:09

I didn't record it, so can't go back to check, but who did the voice-over? A very minor point but my teeth were grinding each time he mispronounced Denny's surname.

 

Very odd that there was no mention at all of Graham's early years working on the shop floor at Lotus.



#363 Roger Clark

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 23:21

What a splendid tribute! Hardly a foot wrong - I noticed just two minor errors - and absolutely wonderful to see Bette, Brigitte and Samantha taking part.

Funnily enough,the last three words uttered by Jeremy Irons - "You lucky bugger!" - were the exact ones I uttered when I realised at the beginning that he had been able to drive both the P61 and the 49!

I haven't seen it but did he really drive the P61?

#364 Sheepmachine

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 23:40

Any idea when the repeat might be? I had no idea this was on and I missed it entirely and my tv won't go past tonight for BBC2.

#365 Allan Lupton

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 23:50

I see it features a "re-enactment" of one of NGH's races. What good does that do anyone, even the members of the non-specialist public?

Mercifully they just cut from the real race to and from Irons driving the same car.

That apart it was a lot better than most of these jobs, using a lot of archive film and, as has been said, some good contributions by the family members.



#366 SanDiegoGo

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 00:53

does anyone know why none of these shows are allowed on iplayer? they have never been available.



#367 dwh43scale

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 07:55

Looked a bit like Croft?

 

 

Paul M

I did wonder about Hethel given the likely Classic Team Lotus connections - but I may well be wrong !



#368 kayemod

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 08:27

I did wonder about Hethel given the likely Classic Team Lotus connections - but I may well be wrong !

 

No, definitely not Hethel, but not the Croft I remember either, though my last visit was many years ago. On a repeat, last week's Barry Sheene prog was repeated last night an hour or so after the Graham one finished, so probably next Sunday around 10.30pm.



#369 Glengavel

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 08:40

No, definitely not Hethel, but not the Croft I remember either, though my last visit was many years ago. On a repeat, last week's Barry Sheene prog was repeated last night an hour or so after the Graham one finished, so probably next Sunday around 10.30pm.

 

I think I saw a sign for 'Cadwell Park' at one point but I don't know if that was the BRM segment or not.

 

I thought it was a good programme, but I was surprised that Jackie Stewart didn't take part.



#370 Allan Lupton

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 08:49

I think I saw a sign for 'Cadwell Park' at one point but I don't know if that was the BRM segment or not.

 

It was the BRM bit that was Cadwell - quite an interesting venue for a first-timer in that BRM, I'd say.



#371 Rob29

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 08:52

Any idea when the repeat might be? I had no idea this was on and I missed it entirely and my tv won't go past tonight for BBC2.

I nearly missed this-according to the Radio Times a programme about the royal family was scheduled! My Sky EPG has also been out of action since xmas came back on last night just in time to see 'Graham Hill' listed.



#372 Stephen W

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 09:06

does anyone know why none of these shows are allowed on iplayer? they have never been available.

 

It does say on BBC i-Player that the series is "coming soon" whilst on the programme website it just says "Currently not available on i-Player". Maybe because according to my listings magazine the Racing Legends series is being dropped in at short notice they will wait until they have all been shown to put them on i-Player?

 

Where did he drive the 49 ?

 

I thought it was Castle Combe.



#373 Vitesse2

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 10:02

Somebody had put some thought into the background music too. It wasn't obtrusive, but there seemed a certain poignancy to have Fleetwood Mac's 'Albatross' backing film of Graham's recovery - with a segue into some Hendrix afterwards during the South Africa scenes.

 

But was it entirely fair to play the theme from 'Chitty Chitty Bang Bang' while showing film of the BRM P15? Better than 'Get Out and Get Under', I suppose!

 

Rob: I'm pretty sure Irons did the whole thing, but - to be fair - a lot of people have mispronounced Denny's name over the years. I've known a couple of Hulmes and they did actually pronounce it Hume. The other (sort of) error I spotted was that when they started talking about Indy they began with a brief shot of the 1968 start - although all the rest did seem to come from 1966.



#374 Cirrus

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 10:52

The BRM scenes were filmed at Cadwell on the Friday evening before the HSCC meeting last year (June 20th). The sound of the V8 reverberating through the trees was very impressive.

 

The venue for the Lotus 49 shoot certainly looked more like Combe than Croft. The amount of debris fencing tends to indicate that it was a currently active circuit rather than a test venue.


Edited by Cirrus, 05 January 2015 - 10:55.


#375 LotusElise

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 11:55

There is sometimes a delay in getting things onto iPlayer. Sometimes a series drops on all at the same time, or the first part is only available once the second is being shown.

 

The Royal Family thing will have been hastily bumped due to recent revelations.



#376 nicanary

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 12:12

Much better than many of these types of documentaries - no real howlers with archive footage, which showed that someone had put some thought and effort in.

 

I can't recall ever seeing that film of Hill looking through Clark's wrecked 48 - it was extremely moving. As was his face and demeanour when being interviewed about that fateful day.



#377 stewie

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 12:23

I can't recall ever seeing that film of Hill looking through Clark's wrecked 48 - it was extremely moving. 

Very poignant. I said to Miss Stewie, "you wouldn't see a driver do that today". I thought it was a tip top documentary, Graham Hill was indeed a legend, even if it was more of the brut strength and determination kind.



#378 Vitesse2

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 12:31


The Royal Family thing will have been hastily bumped due to recent revelations.

It was actually pulled a week ago - nothing to do with that.

 

http://www.radiotime...-princess-diana



#379 Vitesse2

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 12:38

does anyone know why none of these shows are allowed on iplayer? they have never been available.

All four previous ones - including the Sheene one from last week - can easily be found on a well-known video site ...



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#380 charles r

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 13:48

Damon's reaction watching Irons in the 49B, was very poignant.

An excellent programme with Irons doing a great job.

John Surtees next week.



#381 kayemod

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 14:27

Damon's reaction watching Irons in the 49B, was very poignant.

An excellent programme with Irons doing a great job.

John Surtees next week.

 

I agree, and I really enjoyed the programme, notwithstanding some strange omissions. In typical TNF mode, I watched it subconsciously looking for errors, and spotted hardly anything significant, a rare achievement for the BBC, and TV in general. Anyone who can jump into a Lotus 49 DFV and drive it as well as he appeared to is a top bloke. On John Surtees though, while I hope you're right, can we be sure about that? As Vitesse says, a prog on the Royal Family was pulled at the last minute, disrupting schedules. This wasn't about most people's least-fayourite 'Royal', the freeloading Andy's possible indiscretions with underage girls, but my own LFR, Charles the pompous overpriced biscuit purveyor, who objected to the BBC telling the truth about some of his underhand PR work, following the death of the saintly Diana.

 

What? A closet republican?? Me???



#382 jonpollak

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 14:40

All four previous ones - including the Sheene one from last week - can easily be found on a well-known video site ...

I am sure this guy will have it eventually

It's a brilliant use of the platform I might add.

Jp



#383 BRG

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 16:50

 

I can't recall ever seeing that film of Hill looking through Clark's wrecked 48 - it was extremely moving. As was his face and demeanour when being interviewed about that fateful day.

Me neither.  And not just looking at it, but helping the team carry the wreckage away and picking up other debris.  You can't imagine a modern day driver doing that, but then, they wouldn't be allowed the opportunity even if they were willing.  

 

A pretty good programme which left me a little tearful.

 

The 49 sequence was definitely at Hethel - you can compare with onboard lap videos on Youtube.


Edited by BRG, 05 January 2015 - 16:54.


#384 Cargo

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 16:59

Was away for hols, only just got back and turned on the Tivo and watched the Hill episode.

 

And blimey!  :eek:  :eek:  :eek: 

 

TNF-ers will be well aware that over the last 5-10 years the F1 business has not been kindly served by the various TV docs shown on Brit TV. I  myself have used TNF to merrily put the boot into a number of them. So this one was a wonderful surprise. Actually, more than just a surprise  - it was pretty close to being as "perfect" an F1 bio-doc that you can make. Well done everyone involved! The direction, the guests, the race clips, the script, Mr Irons. Brilliant, just brilliant stuff! I was particularly impressed with the seamless editing dovetailing Mr Irons words/driving with historic footage. Real skill and judgement there.

 

Annoyingly, my Tivo stopped the recording just before the credits started so I don't know who was responsible.

 

Anyway, from this jaded, cynical, sceptical old F1 fan, and for the third time in this post - well done everybody, and thanks! :clap:

 

It was a very nice and belated crimmy present.



#385 Charlieman

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 17:48

This wasn't about most people's least-fayourite 'Royal', the freeloading Andy...

Andy made a fabulous cameo appearance in the BBC's Ambassadors comedy-drama series as Prince Mark. Or was that an actor?

 

---

Last time around with Racing Legends, broadcast preceded iPlayer availability by weeks. Perhaps the producers have a deal with somebody else that makes us wait. 



#386 mfd

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 17:53

We don't just have Charles to thank, there's two others who detest the media even more & are quite partial to a bit of wheels related stuff :clap:



#387 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 18:01

No mention on last night's Graham Hill documentary is that he won an F1 race after recovering from his accident in the 69 US GP. Granted it wasn't a GP....1971 International Trophy at Silverstone, in the Brabham BT34....18 months after his accident....how many other drivers could have done that?



#388 Alan Cox

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 18:18

 

Annoyingly, my Tivo stopped the recording just before the credits started so I don't know who was responsible.

 

Executive producer and director listed here

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/b04zr33t

 

I see that the John Surtees tribute is to be hosted by Paul Hollywood.


Edited by Alan Cox, 05 January 2015 - 18:19.


#389 BRG

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 18:28

That was an admirable contribution by Henri Pescarolo.   Not many would be so honest as to admit that they opposed Hill's place at Matra for Le Mans and that they were proved so totally wrong.  Good man, Pesca!  :up:



#390 Cargo

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 18:43

Executive producer and director listed here

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/b04zr33t

 

I see that the John Surtees tribute is to be hosted by Paul Hollywood.

#

 

Thanks Alan for the link.

 

Looks like the main man to thank is "Piero Sfredda". :up: :up: :up: Good job mate.



#391 kayemod

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 19:13

That was an admirable contribution by Henri Pescarolo.   Not many would be so honest as to admit that they opposed Hill's place at Matra for Le Mans and that they were proved so totally wrong.  Good man, Pesca!  :up:

 

You're right, though Pepsi Cola has admitted to the same thing before now in print, all credit to him. All credit to him also for agreeing to appear at all, the poor guy has clearly suffered a stroke, if he'd been on the radio, many would have assumed that he was drunk. A friend used to work on Radio 4's Today programme, and they sometimes interviewed the original Troubleshooter, Sir John Harvey Jones on business matters. Sir John had also suffered a severe stroke, and was quite adamant that this wasn't to be mentioned when he was introduced. He did sound as if he'd enjoyed more than a few jars beforehand, but a proud man with quite a record in his field, his attitude was that if anyone leaped to the wrong conclusion that he was somewhat pissed, then that was their problem, certainly not his.



#392 ensign14

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 19:56

Andy made a fabulous cameo appearance in the BBC's Ambassadors comedy-drama series as Prince Mark. Or was that an actor?

 

Played by Tom Hollander, but I met a former British ambassador shortly afterwards, and he said the series was extremely true to life...
 



#393 E.B.

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 21:23

The other (sort of) error I spotted was that when they started talking about Indy they began with a brief shot of the 1968 start - although all the rest did seem to come from 1966.


There was some 1967 too in that segment. I'm a bit surprised they chose the most graphic footage of the Pat O'Connor fatality to show the dangers of Indy, but it certainly got the message across.

I didn't recognise the track that the 49 segment came from, but it didn't look like Castle Combe to me.

Great programme overall, looking forward to the next one.

#394 SanDiegoGo

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 21:58

All four previous ones - including the Sheene one from last week - can easily be found on a well-known video site ...

 

 

i meant from a licencing point of view. it seems odd that a bbc program doesn't have the rights to broadcast the program over the internet. i just wondered if anyone knew the specifics.



#395 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 23:02

I didn't recognise the track that the 49 segment came from, but it didn't look like Castle Combe to me.
 

I assumed rightly or wrongly that Classic Team Lotus supplied the 49, so guessed that it would either be Hethel or Snetterton....



#396 DogEarred

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 08:02

I would go along with the Hethel theory.

 

The clue for me was in a brief panning shot which showed the green & yellow clad design office which overlooks the track.

(Hethel is much used & kept to a near race standard.)

 

The 'parked' shots did not seem to be filmed in the short pitlane/pitwall area though. It was visible in another shot though, which made me think it was actually filmed out on the track for some reason.

 

Something else I noticed during the piece on the Mexican GP where he overtook & beat Stewart. In the early part of the race it showed him cornering (& drifting off the circuit) in an rear aerofoil-less car whereas it showed him taking the flag with a full aero kit.

 

Can anyone remember the real facts? - I've forgotten.

 

Happy New Year to all.



#397 Macca

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 09:23

I think the 'wingless' shots were from the Spanish GP at Jarama, of which they showed bits earlier on. 

 

If some of the 49 circuit was Hethel, the pit lane did indeed look too big and long, and more like the Combe. Also there was a building glimpsed in the background that looked like the newer ones there. I wonder which c/n the 49 was...

 

It's a pity they used an 'interim' P57 V8 at Cadwell, rather than a 1962 P578 - did NGH ever drive one, except to test Marsh's and Lewis's cars?

 

Paul M



#398 Peter Morley

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 10:45

I assumed the 49B test was at Hethel.

Wasn't the test track recently upgraded under the previous regime, that would explain why it looked different.



#399 DogEarred

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 12:01

Yes it was. Almost to FIA standards. That's only for the track itself barring a couple of run-off adjustments.

 

It is not a viable facility to have proper races, in that there is no infrastructure - access roads, marshalls' posts or communications.

 

There is a pit lane & pit wall good for 2 or 3 cars but was not designed for racing in mind.

 

It is used to test Lotus cars, obviously, as well as being used occasionally for Club Lotus sprints. There are regular cycling events held there too. Norfolk police & ambulance service use it for training. Must be fun. There's a helipad in the middle, too.

 

The Lotus training school use it of course & there is a clubhouse/tower that overlooks the track.

 

A nice facility & occasionally used by Classic Team Lotus & others. A great opportunity to look at & watch fantastic old cars if you happen to be there.

 

To bring it up to race standards though, would break Lotus, given the business's current perilous financial state.



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#400 Roger Clark

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 12:18

 

 

It's a pity they used an 'interim' P57 V8 at Cadwell, rather than a 1962 P578 - did NGH ever drive one, except to test Marsh's and Lewis's cars?

 

Paul M

I'm sure that Graham Hill didn't race a P57 V8 and I don't think there is a mention of him testing one in BRM Vol 2.  Ginther did race such a car at Zandvoort, following his crash at Silverstone which destroyed his P578 and (briefly) at Monaco when the Collotti gearbox of his replacement P578 proved to be unsatisfactory.