197 replies to this topic

[packapoo]

Reading the article on the front page of the main site leads me to conclude there must be someone pulling the strings there with an Aboriginal background; indulging in a bit of 'dream-time', (for the uninitiated).

I mean 5th place with no drivers? Not even Paul Di Resta is confirmed last time I looked. So exactly how is this target achievable?
Doesn't even seem to be any 'watch this space' posted.

Can EJ help?

[Vickyy]

Reading the article on the front page of the main site leads me to conclude there must be someone pulling the strings there with an Aboriginal background; indulging in a bit of 'dream-time', (for the uninitiated).

I mean 5th place with no drivers? Not even Paul Di Resta is confirmed last time I looked. So exactly how is this target achievable?
Doesn't even seem to be any 'watch this space' posted.

Can EJ help?

This is typical PR stuff.
But on the other hand, rules hardly changed for next season, car was arguably 5th fastest in second half of the season, hence its a fair conclusion that they won't have slow start just like last two seasons.

[garoidb]

This is typical PR stuff.
But on the other hand, rules hardly changed for next season, car was arguably 5th fastest in second half of the season, hence its a fair conclusion that they won't have slow start just like last two seasons.

Yes, of course. Who would they beat, though? Mercedes? Or McLaren? Hardly Red Bull, Ferrari or Lotus/Renault/Enstone.

[Tombstone]

Yes, of course. Who would they beat, though? Mercedes? Or McLaren? Hardly Red Bull, Ferrari or Lotus/Renault/Enstone.

Why McLaren if not ferrari or Lotus.

[Phoenixx]

Yes, of course. Who would they beat, though? Mercedes? Or McLaren? Hardly Red Bull, Ferrari or Lotus/Renault/Enstone.

If you take a look on the performance of Mercedes in the last races they could be beaten very easily (when no wonder happens)

[Rikhart]

I dont think it will be a stretch of the imagination overtaking mercedes, who are the only ones rolling out a completely new car... That coupled with new tyres should be interesting for them, who tend to be clueless understanding change, so who knows.

[noikeee]

Reading the article on the front page of the main site leads me to conclude there must be someone pulling the strings there with an Aboriginal background; indulging in a bit of 'dream-time', (for the uninitiated).

I mean 5th place with no drivers? Not even Paul Di Resta is confirmed last time I looked. So exactly how is this target achievable?
Doesn't even seem to be any 'watch this space' posted.

Can EJ help?

Huh, what's with the negative tone? They were the 5th quickest team over the last few GPs this season and it's only natural they'd want to stay there - even if that's assuming Mercedes keep underperforming or another of the teams ahead drop back.

I don't understand the jibe about drivers, they have the 2 most wanted seats at the moment. Assuming di Resta stays they then have a choice between Sutil, Alguersuari, Buemi, Senna, Bianchi, and every paydriver around for the other seat. Don't worry they'll find someone.

I think they won't be 5th because Merc should bounce back, it's also entirely possible Sauber and/or Williams will get back ahead of them, and finally the Kingfisher/Mallya financial troubles lead me to think the "new investment" in the team is a load of bullshit... but I wouldn't be hugely surprised if they meet that target neither.

[amppatel]

Reading the article on the front page of the main site leads me to conclude there must be someone pulling the strings there with an Aboriginal background; indulging in a bit of 'dream-time', (for the uninitiated).

I mean 5th place with no drivers? Not even Paul Di Resta is confirmed last time I looked. So exactly how is this target achievable?
Doesn't even seem to be any 'watch this space' posted.

Can EJ help?

What is the point in aiming for something easily achievable - that's not an aim that would be a prediction.

[garoidb]

Why McLaren if not ferrari or Lotus.

I see my post did not read very clearly. Apologies. I don't think Force India can beat McLaren (their car will be too good, and they have decent drivers) or Mercedes (who will have Lewis even if their car is poorer than McLaren). I don't see Force India beating any of the 2012 top five.

[KavB]

Now that Lotus are a force to be reckoned with, I don't know if they will be able to get 5th. Who knows though. Mercedes imploded this year with Schumacher's reliability and their poor end to the season. But with Hamilton on board, they would have to create a real dud of a car to not get at least 5th.

I would be more confident if they had Nico on board still!

[Seanspeed]

Nothing wrong with a bit of ambition.

Lotus could drop off. Mercedes might continue their poor form. Sauber and Williams are beatable.

Seems like a reasonable target to aim for.

[Kingshark]

Nothing wrong with a bit of ambition.

Lotus could drop off. Mercedes might continue their poor form. Sauber and Williams are beatable.

Seems like a reasonable target to aim for.

This.

I like optimistic teams.

[Clatter]

Reading the article on the front page of the main site leads me to conclude there must be someone pulling the strings there with an Aboriginal background; indulging in a bit of 'dream-time', (for the uninitiated).

I mean 5th place with no drivers? Not even Paul Di Resta is confirmed last time I looked. So exactly how is this target achievable?
Doesn't even seem to be any 'watch this space' posted.

Can EJ help?

What's wrong with having a target? And what makes think they have no drivers? They have plenty of time make that announcement and they can afford to wait as they have the only remaining seats worth having.

[sopa]

This is a high goal, but not impossible. I don't think they will achieve it, but they could get close. Remember, in 2011 they were just a few points shy of Renault, who had a dud car that year. Or one that they couldn't develop. This year Mercedes had a car they couldn't develop and Sauber and Force India almost caught them.

[Fastcake]

What's wrong with having a target? And what makes think they have no drivers? They have plenty of time make that announcement and they can afford to wait as they have the only remaining seats worth having.

Agreed, I'd rather see Force India aiming for a higher position instead of settling for less. There's a good chance they could even make it too, so good on them. They've got until the 13th of March to make a decision on their drivers, so what's the rush?

[Sakae]

RBR, SF, McLaren, Mercedes, Lotus, and perhaps also TR and Sauber might be all standing in FI' path to their target P5 in ranking. Setting however a target by the boss which is ambitious enough, and perhaps even achievable is desirable and right thing to do, but now we can wait how they are going to make it happen. For now they haven’t even bothered to confirm their drivers. I hope that Kamui will be one of them.

[Sakae]

What's wrong with having a target? And what makes think they have no drivers? They have plenty of time make that announcement and they can afford to wait as they have the only remaining seats worth having.

What's the useful psychology behind stressing out unnecessarilly drivers, who could perhaps seek other jobs elsewhere, if they would be told in time what the score is? Waiting perhaps for Kamui's purse to get bigger (despite their rhetoric to the contrary)? Just plainly bad manners, and unfriendly environment. PdR's seat might be then in jeopardy as well, looks like, otherwise why not put his name up?

Edited by Sakae, 21 December 2012 - 22:54.

[Scorg]

F-I have their reasons for not confirming, and they are quite likely still talking to the drivers they wish before making their choice. We don't know what is going on behind closed doors but I would say it is safe to assume it is more detailed then a regular employment contract.
Also this is normal from F-I, they like to present both drivers to the press at the same time and it could be quite likely that DiResta has been told internally he is safe (im not saying he is here, just a guess on my part).

As for their aim for 5th in the Constructors. They nearly had it in 2011, This year it could have been technically possible point wise if both cars finished in the points and considering the car did appear to be the 5th best car by seasons end, if they can keep that momentum going forward then they should feel confident to aim for that spot.

The team has history way longer then just the age of F-I where it has finished higher then 5th in the constructors

[DutchQuicksilver]

RBR, SF, McLaren, Mercedes, Lotus, and perhaps also TR and Sauber might be all standing in FI' path to their target P5 in ranking. Setting however a target by the boss which is ambitious enough, and perhaps even achievable is desirable and right thing to do, but now we can wait how they are going to make it happen. For now they haven’t even bothered to confirm their drivers. I hope that Kamui will be one of them.

Toro Rosso based on their excellent form last season? And Sauber on their excellent end to the season? It's highly likely that Force India will be in front of those two in Melbourne. Don't forget, 2013 cars are an evolution of the 2012 challengers. And seeing that Force India ended the season on a high, whilst Sauber ended it on a low, the chances are high that Force India will start well.

[Jimisgod]

RBR - No chance in hell
Ferrari - Alonso can double their score alone. Massa seems in a good place.
McLaren - Has about the fastest car out there.
Lotus - Kimi can also double their score. Factor in the handicap of having Grosjean and they're still in front.

Mercedes - Lewis and Rosberg are probably the best driving pair, but the car will be a crapshoot. Could be a stinker. May beat them.
Sauber - Hulkenberg can beat di Resta, but that other Mexican will probably crash his way through the season. I think "Guitarez" will cancel out the advantage of having Hulkenberg.
Force India - di Resta is slower than Hulkenberg and Sutil. Unless they drag in Kobayashi or Jamie A. I can't see them beating Merc or Williams.
Williams - Pastor is fast and now he is cleaner. Bottas is a decent driver seeing his Friday tests. The car won a race. Could jump to 5th if fortune goes their way.

Toro Rosso - Need to make a big jump in 2013 to trouble those other 4 just ahead.

Caterham - No chance in hell they can finish ahead of a FI car.
Marussia - No chance in hell they can even pass a FI once.

[r4mses]

[...]
Mercedes - Lewis and Rosberg are probably the best driving pair, but the car will be a crapshoot. Could be a stinker. May beat them.
[...]

Funny, and somehow sad, I think that's in fact true. A team which - most likely - will fight for places 9-14, if the front-runners come out clean, has the strongest lineup :/

[Sakae]

Toro Rosso based on their excellent form last season? And Sauber on their excellent end to the season? It's highly likely that Force India will be in front of those two in Melbourne. Don't forget, 2013 cars are an evolution of the 2012 challengers. And seeing that Force India ended the season on a high, whilst Sauber ended it on a low, the chances are high that Force India will start well.

You might be right, but Nov 2013 will be more of interest when points are counted. Situation is too volatile to make some strong predictions based on results in Melbourne. Hulk gathered some points for FI, and he has left for Sauber. New guy might not do much, but one never knows. TR received a kick into their pants from the boss to wake up, the other teams had also some changes, and whether those will translate into competitive racing remains to be seen. FI for hard to explain reasons makes me uneasy.

[pacificquay]

I don't know where this idea that di Resta's seat is in any doubt has come from. He will be there.

[MustangSally]

FI for hard to explain reasons makes me uneasy.

The main question mark over FI is team finances. They appear to steadily improve and finished the season with momentum.

Sutil and Di Resta (if confirmed) are both capable of scoring good points . . . arguably a stronger pairing than at Sauber or Williams. That could make the difference between these three teams.

Mercedes I expect to implode in a mess of corporate politics - if that isn't what's happening already.

[Clatter]

What's the useful psychology behind stressing out unnecessarilly drivers, who could perhaps seek other jobs elsewhere, if they would be told in time what the score is? Waiting perhaps for Kamui's purse to get bigger (despite their rhetoric to the contrary)? Just plainly bad manners, and unfriendly environment. PdR's seat might be then in jeopardy as well, looks like, otherwise why not put his name up?

What's stopping them looking elsewhere anyway?

This isn't the first time a time has waited before either making their decision or announcing it, if the various drivers can't wait then they can look for another drive. Most of us have had to wait on a decision at one time or another and if the stress of that is too much for them then they would be unlikely to do well in the cockpit anyway.

[Baddoer]

Why not to use self-driving cars like Google created. I'm sure it can save some weight and also bring more race pace consistency.

Edited by Baddoer, 22 December 2012 - 15:53.

[Sakae]

The main question mark over FI is team finances. They appear to steadily improve and finished the season with momentum.

Hard to say; sometimes perceptions could be deceiving.

Sutil and Di Resta (if confirmed) are both capable of scoring good points . . . arguably a stronger pairing than at Sauber or Williams. That could make the difference between these three teams.

For sentimental reasons only I would like to see KK getting that seat.

[Mr Plug]

The engine is powerful....with rules stability, the car needs little development....they have one solid driver and a vacant seat attractive to a bunch of drivers gagging to make their name.... So they blooming well SHOULD make 5th.

The BIG question for me is 2014: will they have any money to develop a challenger under new rules? The well-known financial problems of all their current main sponsors (Sahara, Kingfisher/UBS/Mallya) will really impact the 2014 season, and writing personally, I think the team may well be under new ownership by then.

[MattPete]

Hard to say; sometimes perceptions could be deceiving.



For sentimental reasons only I would like to see KK getting that seat.

If I ran Force India, my choice for maximum points would be Sutil and KK (of the drivers that are currently on the market).

[DutchQuicksilver]

For sentimental reasons only I would like to see KK getting that seat.

But Kamui will always have races where he's nowhere to be seen. Sutil is a safer bet for consistent points finishes.

[Sakae]

I have to admit that I do not know who out of this group of three drivers would foot the bill best, but Resta hasn't impressed me much after that initial an Hamilton like build up by British media, then unfortunately I retained only hazy memory on Sutil, although in recollection he had some unnecessary run-ins on the track as well, thus Kamui somehow clicks best with me.

[Hans V]

Allthough the talk about 5th in the WCC is not totally unrealistic, given the quite good job they did in 2012, they surely are trying to talk the team - and cost of sponsorship, up. Fact is that both owners - and main sponsors, are in serious financial trouble. I'd even be surprised to see Di Resta retained (is he confirmed BTW?). Not because he's done a bad job, quite the contrary, but because they might need two pay-drivers to get through 2013. My guess for the 2013 line-up is Sutil and Alguersuari, two competent guys with money.

[Scorg]

Over the past 3 seasons they have always came out and said they are aiming for the 5th spot. This is nothing new from Force India.
Also why is everyone so speculative over DiResta? Because the team have not confirmed their 2013 drivers yet? This is also something normal from the team where both drivers are confirmed together.

[DutchQuicksilver]

Allthough the talk about 5th in the WCC is not totally unrealistic, given the quite good job they did in 2012, they surely are trying to talk the team - and cost of sponsorship, up. Fact is that both owners - and main sponsors, are in serious financial trouble. I'd even be surprised to see Di Resta retained (is he confirmed BTW?). Not because he's done a bad job, quite the contrary, but because they might need two pay-drivers to get through 2013. My guess for the 2013 line-up is Sutil and Alguersuari, two competent guys with money.

Your post is full of untruth's. They are not in financial trouble, quite tho opposite actually. Force India received a financial injection of 60 million for 2013. Paul di Resta is all but retained. He's just not officially announced because Force India always announces both it's drivers around Christmas. And Jaime Alguersuair has signed in DTM, so he can't be driving for Force India.

[gm914]

I think the PR statement was lost in translation.

Surely Mallya and Sahara are talking about Pleading the Fifth in 2013.

Nothing to do how they'll do on track.

[Jimisgod]

But Kamui will always have races where he's nowhere to be seen. Sutil is a safer bet for consistent points finishes.

Only if the car is as inconsistent as the Sauber was at the end of 2012. Funny how that is the excuse for all of Sauber's performances, the car and tyres are freakishly good when it gets a podium but the driver is awfully bad when it's outside the points.

And it wasn't like Button and Hamilton, where Lewis would be in 2nd and Button in 15th, both drivers would fall out of the points and be anonymous on a bad track for the car.

[Talisman]

Your post is full of untruth's. They are not in financial trouble, quite tho opposite actually. Force India received a financial injection of 60 million for 2013.

Were it any other team I would have taken those claims of investment at face value. However this is Mallya and Sahara we're talking about. When Mallya sold a share of the team to Sahara he claimed the 100 million they paid for the stake would be invested additional to the team running costs when the money went to service the debts of his airline. It would not surprise me if the latest cash injection is merely FIs normal running costs dressed up as additional investment.

The fact is that Mallya cannot afford to run the team. If he gives it the funding it needs the banks and other financing services that have lent him billions to keep his empire afloat will demand why he puts money into his toy when he has been defaulting on repayments to them for years. His hands are tied.

[ch103]

Reports about Vijay Mallya aside, does anyone really think that 5th is possible for FI in 2013? The fact that they haven't announced their drivers yet is alarming, imo. While its seems that DiResta is all but certain to be a driver, I cannot understand why they haven't announced the second driver.

[packapoo]

No.

And Di Resta must be feeling a little in the sights now.

[Shiroo]

5th? Raikkonen and Hamilton will solo, both of them, double score whole FI pts. So no way in hell

[PapaD]

The car didn't look too bad towards the end of the season. 5th is probably too high though. Hope Di Resta does well, he needs to beat whoever his team mate is after fading last season against Hulkenberg.

[BoschKurve]

Reports about Vijay Mallya aside, does anyone really think that 5th is possible for FI in 2013? The fact that they haven't announced their drivers yet is alarming, imo. While its seems that DiResta is all but certain to be a driver, I cannot understand why they haven't announced the second driver.

That's really the big consideration. I don't see how a team can possibly make an announcement they are targeting 5th when it doesn't even appear they've made a decision on the 2nd driver. I'd love to know when that announcement is coming. Maybe by February?

[Clatter]

That's really the big consideration. I don't see how a team can possibly make an announcement they are targeting 5th when it doesn't even appear they've made a decision on the 2nd driver. I'd love to know when that announcement is coming. Maybe by February?

I don't see how the name of the driver should change the targets.

[MustangSally]

That's really the big consideration. I don't see how a team can possibly make an announcement they are targeting 5th when it doesn't even appear they've made a decision on the 2nd driver. I'd love to know when that announcement is coming. Maybe by February?

They haven't made a decision about drivers because they haven't yet made a decision about engines. The two are obviously related, and that is why negotiations are protracted. Normal.

There are two sides as usual in any negotiations. And I guess Ferrari - even if their protege Bianchi is hired - would also like to know if they ever get paid. I'm not a VJ doomsayer like Saward, but I can imagine that running a normal credit check on VJ wouldn't come out all that positive.

Don't think he'd even get a Sainsbury's shopper card right now.

[ch103]

I don't see how the name of the driver should change the targets.

Its not just the name of the driver its the concept of having forethought and continuity going into the season to build on the success they had to end 2012.

They have too many variables that are up in the air right now to even begin thinking about finishing 5th in the WCC.

[ch103]

They haven't made a decision about drivers because they haven't yet made a decision about engines. The two are obviously related, and that is why negotiations are protracted. Normal.

There are two sides as usual in any negotiations. And I guess Ferrari - even if their protege Bianchi is hired - would also like to know if they ever get paid. I'm not a VJ doomsayer like Saward, but I can imagine that running a normal credit check on VJ wouldn't come out all that positive.

Don't think he'd even get a Sainsbury's shopper card right now.

I see your point about the second driver relationship to engine selection, however, as the thread is about the team finishing fifth in the championship - it's hard to believe a team this far into an off season hasn't sorted the driver as well as engine situation out.

[Sakae]

They haven't made a decision about drivers because they haven't yet made a decision about engines. The two are obviously related, and that is why negotiations are protracted. Normal.

There are two sides as usual in any negotiations. And I guess Ferrari - even if their protege Bianchi is hired - would also like to know if they ever get paid. I'm not a VJ doomsayer like Saward, but I can imagine that running a normal credit check on VJ wouldn't come out all that positive.

Don't think he'd even get a Sainsbury's shopper card right now.

Just a few weeks to testing, and you are in here suggesting whilst they haven't sorted out engines, or drivers, yet targetting fifth is all normal to you? What kind of a car do they building then?

[BoschKurve]

I don't see how the name of the driver should change the targets.

It can change it because if they settle for either an inexperienced driver, or a driver whose skill set isn't all that great, it makes getting the necessary points for P5 in the WCC much more difficult.

[packapoo]

Let's say they hired Narain for example.

[Kingshark]

This.

I like optimistic teams.

Perhaps I can restate that?

There's no way they'll get 5th with a Di Resta - Bianchi drivers line up.

Edited by Kingshark, 16 January 2013 - 04:52.