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Force India Targets 5th in 2013


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#51 Clatter

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:51

It can change it because if they settle for either an inexperienced driver, or a driver whose skill set isn't all that great, it makes getting the necessary points for P5 in the WCC much more difficult.


That could affect the result, but doesn't change the target. No matter who they sign their ambition can remain the same. It's far more important to get the car design right than name a driver.


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#52 BoschKurve

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 14:03

That could affect the result, but doesn't change the target. No matter who they sign their ambition can remain the same. It's far more important to get the car design right than name a driver.


Certainly. However such a target shouldn't be aimed for if the team fields an average car as well as two average drivers.

#53 MustangSally

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 15:02

Just a few weeks to testing, and you are in here suggesting whilst they haven't sorted out engines, or drivers, yet targetting fifth is all normal to you? What kind of a car do they building then?


I think the situation has changed since this thread started (though we still don't know anything officially).

At the outset, it was assumed FI would run Merc and Sutil and DiResta. And perhaps continue the momentum of the last half season.

Now I agree, it is all up in the air and very late in the day. There is no announcement of a Ferrari deal and, as far as I know, the technical consultancy deal with McLaren has not been renewed.




#54 EvanRainer

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 15:04

Target does not equal prediction.

I don't think a midfield team with aspirations setting 5th as a target is unreasonable. As I said setting a target doesn't mean that is what you expect to get, people want to aim higher than where they reasonably expect to fall.

If we say the bigger teams are RBR, McLaren, Ferrari, Lotus, Mercedes, then targeting 5th means you want to be best of the midfield and hope to pick off whomever of the bigger teams will struggle (and statistically speaking the chances are one of the big 5 will have an "off" season). I don't think that's an unrealistic thing to say.

#55 Sakae

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 15:44

Target does not equal prediction.

I don't think a midfield team with aspirations setting 5th as a target is unreasonable. As I said setting a target doesn't mean that is what you expect to get, people want to aim higher than where they reasonably expect to fall.

If we say the bigger teams are RBR, McLaren, Ferrari, Lotus, Mercedes, then targeting 5th means you want to be best of the midfield and hope to pick off whomever of the bigger teams will struggle (and statistically speaking the chances are one of the big 5 will have an "off" season). I don't think that's an unrealistic thing to say.

Target has to be achievable for the team to even engage in any serious effort, but if you do not support you objectives with resources, and choose a driver in whom team won't believe, you might lose the war even before first battle has taken place. Something is going on, and they will not tell us, of course.

#56 Clatter

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 16:38

Certainly. However such a target shouldn't be aimed for if the team fields an average car as well as two average drivers.


I can't see any reason why they should downgrade their target. Being ambitious won't hurt them and it's achievable based on the progress the team have made. If they don't do a good enough job and the target fails to be reached then the target itself won't be the cause of the problems.


#57 Scorg

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 18:26

I think the situation has changed since this thread started (though we still don't know anything officially).

At the outset, it was assumed FI would run Merc and Sutil and DiResta. And perhaps continue the momentum of the last half season.

Now I agree, it is all up in the air and very late in the day. There is no announcement of a Ferrari deal and, as far as I know, the technical consultancy deal with McLaren has not been renewed.


The Merc/Mac deal both runout at the end of this comming season so for this years car there wont be any issues about technical partners and so on. Will all be about 2014 and what package works out the best deal for the team.
The way I can imagine this going is, Sutil will be in if its Merc/Mac or Bianchi will be in if its Ferrari

#58 packapoo

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:21

That could affect the result, but doesn't change the target. No matter who they sign their ambition can remain the same. It's far more important to get the car design right than name a driver.


This isn't an attempt at going OT but couldn't the Williams 2012 experience apply?

Surely they started season targeting a better result?
Had the car - didn't have the driver.
Out the back door again.

#59 packapoo

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:27

Certainly. However such a target shouldn't be aimed for if the team fields an average car as well as two average drivers.


Sure. :up:

Wouldn't be unkind to sum up their last season's car as average IMHO; their target with their presently unconfirmed #1 driver and another is just wishful thinking.

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#60 Clatter

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:40

This isn't an attempt at going OT but couldn't the Williams 2012 experience apply?

Surely they started season targeting a better result?
Had the car - didn't have the driver.
Out the back door again.


Of course it could, but that doesn't mean an ambitious target should not be set. Setting a high target does not make the car slower.

#61 MustangSally

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:00

This isn't an attempt at going OT but couldn't the Williams 2012 experience apply?

Had the car - didn't have the driver.


Too right. Williams had first refusal on the Kimi comeback, too. Whata mistakea to makea. It must rival the guy at Decca Records who turned down the Beatles.




#62 sopa

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 15:45

Ok guys, I guess their target doesn't sound that funny now.

I remember in winter a lot of people were laughing as to why this team dares to set such a high target for themselves.

#63 dau

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 13:48

So i guess this is the official FI 2013 thread now? What a horrible Sunday for them. They had the pace to have both cars in the points and lost out because of what seems to be a design or QA issue with the wheel nuts. That was painful to watch.

#64 Tiakumosan

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 22:26

Today on SporTV broadcast Razia said that he was negotiating with Force India to drive for the team this year, but he did not tell if it was for a friday or races. Does anyone know something about it?

#65 Vermont

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:48

Provided they can secure the tires on the cars at pit stops.....

#66 packapoo

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 03:48

He has two hurdles to overcome.

1. Pay the cheque.
2. Wait for it to clear.

#67 vas04614

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:59

Today on SporTV broadcast Razia said that he was negotiating with Force India to drive for the team this year, but he did not tell if it was for a friday or races. Does anyone know something about it?

Could be, FI is yet to name their 3rd driver anyway.

#68 Viryfan

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 20:19

According to Thibault Larue from Sport Auto, head of Di resta is on the block for the rest of season in Force India.

He must raise his game.

#69 jrg19

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 20:23

According to Thibault Larue from Sport Auto, head of Di resta is on the block for the rest of season in Force India.

He must raise his game.


Lets hope so.

#70 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 20:28

He must raise his game.

In fairness, he did in Malaysia. He was comfortably ahead of Sutil and wheel nut issues spoiled his race. I'm confident he'll finish ahead of Sutil in the standings when the season ends :smoking:

#71 TFLB

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 21:04

In fairness, he did in Malaysia. He was comfortably ahead of Sutil and wheel nut issues spoiled his race. I'm confident he'll finish ahead of Sutil in the standings when the season ends :smoking:

But he was way slower than Sutil in qualifying (he was already 6 tenths down on his dry lap in Q2 so he wouldn't have made Q3 even if he had finished it) and was only near him in the race thanks to Sutil's long pit stop.

#72 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 21:20

In fairness, he did in Malaysia. He was comfortably ahead of Sutil and wheel nut issues spoiled his race. I'm confident he'll finish ahead of Sutil in the standings when the season ends :smoking:

Based on?

#73 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 21:21

But he was way slower than Sutil in qualifying (he was already 6 tenths down on his dry lap in Q2 so he wouldn't have made Q3 even if he had finished it) and was only near him in the race thanks to Sutil's long pit stop.

Qualifying is only half the battle. I've borrowed these lap times from another forum, but it shows after the first set of pit stops Di Resta was much faster than Sutil until the second round of problems.

di Resta Sutil
1 05:52.0 05:50.0
2 02:01.2 02:00.5
3 02:01.4 02:00.4
4 02:01.0 02:01.2
5 01:59.7 01:59.9
6 02:03.7 02:03.9
7 02:30.0 02:30.0
8 01:48.8 01:50.3
9 01:48.4 01:50.0
10 01:45.9 01:46.1
11 01:44.9 01:46.1
12 01:44.2 01:44.1
13 01:43.8 01:44.2
14 01:43.7 01:43.8
15 01:43.9 01:44.3
16 01:43.5 01:44.0
17 01:43.3 01:43.7
18 01:44.2 01:43.8
19 01:43.1 01:44.1

39:26.4 39:30.3


Based on?

Opinion.

#74 TFLB

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 21:28

Qualifying is only half the battle. I've borrowed these lap times from another forum, but it shows after the first set of pit stops Di Resta was much faster than Sutil until the second round of problems.

Qualifying is only half the battle, yes, but Di Resta would have been nowhere near Sutil if Sutil hadn't had the problem at his first stop, so comparing their race pace after that is a bit irrelevant.

#75 William Hunt

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 22:55

According to Thibault Larue from Sport Auto, head of Di resta is on the block for the rest of season in Force India.

He must raise his game.


I think both Force India drivers will be under pressure this year, big chance that the loser of the di Resta-Sutil battle may lose his seat to another driver in 2014, for example Jules Bianchi, James Calado or Kamui Kobayashi.

I don't agree with other people on this forum, who like to bash Paul, that di Resta is doing a bad job though. Both Sutil & di Resta are competitive this year with Sutil slightly the upper hand but not by much, they are closely matched.

Edited by William Hunt, 27 March 2013 - 22:56.


#76 packapoo

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 05:40

I was unaware of Bianchi's racing abilities; fast in the printed media I know but never actually seen him in action.
He does seem as if he has the much hyped abilities he's been attributed with. Pretty impressive so far.

I hope his season with Marussia will lift his profile sufficiently to gain him an offer that will prevail over a Force India fallback position.

Sutil was a very sound choice for them however after being passed over in the money-go-round it'd be unfortunate if Bianchi is picked up on the rebound.


#77 Anderis

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:11

Qualifying is only half the battle, yes, but Di Resta would have been nowhere near Sutil if Sutil hadn't had the problem at his first stop, so comparing their race pace after that is a bit irrelevant.

I don't know about what you're talking about. As I've already written in another thread, there were 4 seconds between them on lap 5, then they both pitted on lap 6 and there were still 4 seconds between them on lap 7. Like you completely don't put into consideration that di Resta was waiting behind Sutil in the pitlane until they change Adrian's tyres so he gained nothing with that problem and lost big amount of time compared to the rest of the field.

#78 benzine

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:14

5th looks very well on sight now , they have 2 fast and experienced drivers to finish in the points every race , the other teams they are fighting have less experienced drivers (sauber), or crazy ones (maldonado ) . mclaren would be very hard to beat obviously but again FI pace in aus and malaysia was no short of lotus and mclaren and maybe even ferrari

#79 dau

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:33

I don't know about what you're talking about. As I've already written in another thread, there were 4 seconds between them on lap 5, then they both pitted on lap 6 and there were still 4 seconds between them on lap 7. Like you completely don't put into consideration that di Resta was waiting behind Sutil in the pitlane until they change Adrian's tyres so he gained nothing with that problem and lost big amount of time compared to the rest of the field.

Sutil didn't lose time compared to Di Resta, but he did lose a bit of positional advantage. Before they pitted, Sutil was running 9th and Di Resta 13th, with both Lotus and Ricciardo in between them, who would probably have been more of a challenge than Bianchi and Bottas.

Basically, you're right, though - Di Resta was much quicker in the second stint than Sutil.

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#80 benzine

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:53

frankly , this season driver lineup for FI is the perfect lineup to take them to 5th

#81 Anderis

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 09:01

Sutil didn't lose time compared to Di Resta, but he did lose a bit of positional advantage. Before they pitted, Sutil was running 9th and Di Resta 13th, with both Lotus and Ricciardo in between them, who would probably have been more of a challenge than Bianchi and Bottas.

It's right, but I would rather expect both Lotus to overtake Sutil, than di Resta to overtake them both, so it still didn't change much in my opinion.

#82 Fastcake

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 13:05

5th looks very well on sight now , they have 2 fast and experienced drivers to finish in the points every race , the other teams they are fighting have less experienced drivers (sauber), or crazy ones (maldonado ) . mclaren would be very hard to beat obviously but again FI pace in aus and malaysia was no short of lotus and mclaren and maybe even ferrari


I think sixth place would be more realistic. Force India may be fast at the moment, but McLaren are going to catch up and I can't realistically see them keeping up with Lotus and Mercedes, let alone Ferrari and Red Bull. Weekends like Malaysia are going to cost FI, they can't afford double retirements while both cars are in a strong position.

#83 TFLB

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 13:25

I don't know about what you're talking about. As I've already written in another thread, there were 4 seconds between them on lap 5, then they both pitted on lap 6 and there were still 4 seconds between them on lap 7. Like you completely don't put into consideration that di Resta was waiting behind Sutil in the pitlane until they change Adrian's tyres so he gained nothing with that problem and lost big amount of time compared to the rest of the field.

But there would have been other cars between them wouldn't there?

Edit: dau has already said it.

Edited by TFLB, 28 March 2013 - 13:26.


#84 TFLB

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 13:36

It's right, but I would rather expect both Lotus to overtake Sutil, than di Resta to overtake them both, so it still didn't change much in my opinion.

FI seemed to be as fast as Lotus, and Raikkonen was driving badly, so I don't think that's a certainty at all.

#85 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 15:51

5th looks very well on sight now , they have 2 fast and experienced drivers to finish in the points every race , the other teams they are fighting have less experienced drivers (sauber), or crazy ones (maldonado ) . mclaren would be very hard to beat obviously but again FI pace in aus and malaysia was no short of lotus and mclaren and maybe even ferrari

I don't believe Force India is capable of finishing in front of Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus or Mercedes in the end really. McLaren will bounce back and the other four teams are still ahead. Finishing 6th looks to be the best achievable at the moment.

Edited by DutchQuicksilver, 28 March 2013 - 15:52.


#86 tkulla

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 17:08

Very strong performance today from both Force India cars. They are as easy on the tyres as anyone so I wouldn't be shocked to see one of them snag 3rd or 4th tomorrow.

#87 Seanspeed

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 18:08

Very strong performance today from both Force India cars. They are as easy on the tyres as anyone so I wouldn't be shocked to see one of them snag 3rd or 4th tomorrow.

3rd or 4th is a little ambitious maybe, but good points are up for grabs definitely. Their long run pace looked better than Mercedes in FP2.



#88 marcoferrari

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 19:00

Not the best track for Sutil, so quite satisfied with his todays performance...

#89 sopa

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 21:48

Obviously Force India won't take 5th in the WCC, because McLaren will most likely out-develop them over a full season, but these performances should be a lesson to people, who laugh at the goals of respectable and competitive teams.

#90 Starish

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 22:20

Pretty much a good goal, since Sauber have 1 driver Williams and Str dropped the ball they are pretty much best of the smaller teams right now.

#91 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 22:48

I'm a bit surprised how di Resta is taking on Sutil at the moment. Or is Sutil still getting into his rhytm after a year away from the sport?

#92 marcoferrari

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 05:51

I'm a bit surprised how di Resta is taking on Sutil at the moment. Or is Sutil still getting into his rhytm after a year away from the sport?


Nothing surprising really as Di Resta has his beloved tracks (where braking from high speeds is an important factor and highspeed corners are just few) and he is permanently better in the first half of the season and then slowly fading (2011/2012)...

#93 linttu

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 17:03

Good job DiResta, hope he can keep it going!

#94 SonJR

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 17:37

I'm a bit surprised how di Resta is taking on Sutil at the moment. Or is Sutil still getting into his rhytm after a year away from the sport?

Nothing surprising really as Di Resta has his beloved tracks (where braking from high speeds is an important factor and highspeed corners are just few) and he is permanently better in the first half of the season and then slowly fading (2011/2012)...

I wouldn't say Di Resta is walking away with it, but I agree with both of you. He has the upper hand now, as seems to regularly be the case for him during the first half of the season. Come Germany or Hungary there will probably be a turnaround, although I imagine they'll still be rather closely matched. As for Sutil, Australia notwithstanding, I think he does indeed need some more time to get into the groove. He's had a few qualifyings now where he admitted to not being able to really get it together.

Edit: seriously good drive from Di Resta today though. Can't take anything away from that. He's nearly always solid, so when the car is too, he gets good results.

Edited by SonJR, 21 April 2013 - 17:38.


#95 encircled

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 17:40

https://twitter.com/...008879727136768

At the end of lap 2 Sutil was 81s behind Vettel, and at the chequered flag, he was 76s behind him. Also set 2nd fastest lap

Shame about the incident with Massa but he could have taken the podium.

#96 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 17:46

Indeed, missed chance for Force India to score a lot of points. They have to take advantage of this early pace as much as possible, because McLaren will probably outdevelop them in the next races.

They already missed out in Malaysia with both cars and Sutil's bad luck in China and Bahrain isn't helping either.

#97 d246

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 19:58

Good drive from DIR. Quite a philosophical and mature post-race interview too.

#98 Vickyy

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 20:16

Indeed, missed chance for Force India to score a lot of points. They have to take advantage of this early pace as much as possible, because McLaren will probably outdevelop them in the next races.

They already missed out in Malaysia with both cars and Sutil's bad luck in China and Bahrain isn't helping either.


Totally agree, with the car at their disposal, I would say, these flyaway races have been a massive missed oppurtunity for the team. At Aus, Sutil struggled on super softs, Malaysia was terrible, China and Bahrain was bad luck. Hence 26 points are just a consolation.
With McLaren out developing Force India in next few races, and probably Sauber/Williams will also catch up with Barcelona upgrades, it will be a scrape for 9-10th places as usual for the remaining season.
May be it is karma, last season with average car FI grabbed points with other's miseries and this year its same story as Sauber/Williams of last season.

#99 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 20:20

I doubt Sauber and Williams will have catched up with Force India in Spain, they are too far behind for that. Don't forget Force India will have upgrades as well ;)

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#100 Henrik B

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 20:23

"At the end of lap 2 Sutil was 81s behind Vettel, and at the chequered flag, he was 76s behind him. Also set 2nd fastest lap"

Shame about the incident with Massa but he could have taken the podium.


This needs more attention. Sure he had free air for much of the race, but so did Vettel.