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Force India Targets 5th in 2013


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#151 Disgrace

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 16:40

Force India have dropped the ball hugely. Continual team failures (with some bad luck, particularly for Sutil) have meant Force India are nowhere near as far ahead of McLaren as they should be. Since Germany, they have no pace now either.

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#152 vas04614

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 17:08

OK they are in a mess after tyres change for sure. But the point is can they recover?

#153 dau

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 17:10

[...]All just random accidents?

No, it's obviously a conspiracy.

#154 Fastcake

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 17:20

OK they are in a mess after tyres change for sure. But the point is can they recover?


As many of us said earlier this year, McLaren will eventually get better. Every race Force India has squandered potential points, like they again did today, will make it less likely they will finish fifth.

#155 vas04614

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 18:22

When told to retire the car, PdiR,"That is absolutely appalling. F*** it"
PdiR was told, "there was nothing to gain by keeping the car out"



#156 race addicted

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:45

Wow, he really said that on the radio?
Well, seems like Force India needs to hear it.

I really hope they can pull something off development-wise, and that their car just hasn't been a good fit for Hungaroring rather than them struggling on the new tires.
Spa and Monza have been good FI-tracks before, and so often do we see re-occuring traits in a teams cars DNA. (what a sentence! Does that work??)

#157 F1ultimate

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 20:14

The race for 5th is officially on. Just a two point difference between the teams. Force India were looking very strong early this season but to beat Mclaren they will need to keep DNFs to a minimum. Button and Perez are improving, especially their pace during the second half of races. I'm rooting for Force India and hope they can bag some valuable money to help them keep up with development in 2014.

#158 BRG

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:26

He was quicker than Di Resta all weekend. Looks like 2011 and 2012 all over again, with Di Resta falling back in the second half of the season.

He started 11th, di Resta started 18th. Yet at the end of just one lap, di Resta was in front. So who is slower?

#159 Jon83

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 19:18

He started 11th, di Resta started 18th. Yet at the end of just one lap, di Resta was in front. So who is slower?


Are we judging it over one opening lap now?



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#160 Jon83

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 19:19

The race for 5th is officially on. Just a two point difference between the teams. Force India were looking very strong early this season but to beat Mclaren they will need to keep DNFs to a minimum. Button and Perez are improving, especially their pace during the second half of races. I'm rooting for Force India and hope they can bag some valuable money to help them keep up with development in 2014.


I don't think there will be a race. McLaren will stroll it.

#161 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 20:24

He started 11th, di Resta started 18th. Yet at the end of just one lap, di Resta was in front. So who is slower?

Seen the start? Sutil was locked behind other cars at the first corner, Di Resta had free space.

#162 race addicted

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 20:52

He started 11th, di Resta started 18th. Yet at the end of just one lap, di Resta was in front. So who is slower?


A very horrible example. It's tempting to say you answered your own question too; afterall Sutil started 11th, di Resta 18th.......... So who is slower?
Having said that, I think di Resta has been really, really good this year, and better than for instance the points table shows, as he's lost a lot of points that was in the bag.
I think he's on the verge of establishing himself as a little better than Sutil, but I need some more confirmations in the second half.

Edited by race addicted, 29 July 2013 - 20:53.


#163 BRG

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 11:46

Are we judging it over one opening lap now?

DutchQuicksilver said "He was quicker than Di Resta all weekend." I produced an example to show that he very clearly wasn't. Picking up a lot of places at the start is a valuable characteristic for a racing driver, especially one driving for a less than competent team that keeps inadvertently screwing up your qualifying efforts.

And di Resta is STLL 13 points ahead of his overhyped team-mate.

#164 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 14:35

DutchQuicksilver said "He was quicker than Di Resta all weekend." I produced an example to show that he very clearly wasn't. Picking up a lot of places at the start is a valuable characteristic for a racing driver, especially one driving for a less than competent team that keeps inadvertently screwing up your qualifying efforts.

Reed my post on the top of this page to get your answer.

And di Resta is STLL 13 points ahead of his overhyped team-mate.

Wouldn't have been if you take away Sutil's bad luck.

#165 Jon83

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 18:05

DutchQuicksilver said "He was quicker than Di Resta all weekend." I produced an example to show that he very clearly wasn't. Picking up a lot of places at the start is a valuable characteristic for a racing driver, especially one driving for a less than competent team that keeps inadvertently screwing up your qualifying efforts.

And di Resta is STLL 13 points ahead of his overhyped team-mate.


Sorry, but your example was rubbish and I have never seen any overhype anywhere with regard to Sutil.

#166 BRG

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 18:31

Reed my post on the top of this page to get your answer.


So now you are admitting that Sutil was NOT in fact QUICKER ALL WEEKEND, as you originally claimed. Glad we've got that settled.

Wouldn't have been if you take away Sutil's bad luck.

But would be if you took away di Resta's bad luck. It works both ways.

#167 Fastcake

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 19:44

Think I should report this...

You know it's quite funny, because in the past when I've pointed out di Resta has had woeful luck compared to his teammate, suddenly the points were the only thing that mattered.



#168 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 20:26

So now you are admitting that Sutil was NOT in fact QUICKER ALL WEEKEND, as you originally claimed. Glad we've got that settled.

Where did I say that?

#169 BRG

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 21:41

Where did I say that?

:rolleyes: In your post 147 as follows:

Too bad Sutil had to cope with the bad luck yet again. With his strategy he probably would have finished 9th or 10th. He was quicker than Di Resta all weekend. Looks like 2011 and 2012 all over again, with Di Resta falling back in the second half of the season.


Some advice - when you are in a hole, stop digging.

#170 vas04614

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:00

Actually Sutil was quicker than Di Resta all weekend...

#171 DanardiF1

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:00

Yeah Di Resta was all over the place in Hungary...

#172 seahawk

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:05

Was in front of Sutil after lap 1 anmd finushed the race. Looks better to me than what Sutil did. diResta is dominating Sutil this season.

Edited by seahawk, 31 July 2013 - 06:10.


#173 DanardiF1

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:43

This season yes. Di Resta had a mare last weekend though... Force India in general did. Seems like they've regressed to their mean after lucking out with the previous tyres...

#174 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 11:56

:rolleyes: In your post 147 as follows:

Some advice - when you are in a hole, stop digging.

You should read better. You're accusing me of saying Sutil wasn't faster after all, all weekend. I never said that.

Edited by DutchQuicksilver, 31 July 2013 - 11:56.


#175 BRG

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 12:08

You should read better. You're accusing me of saying Sutil wasn't faster after all, all weekend. I never said that.

:confused: No indeed you didn't. You said "He was quicker than Di Resta all weekend." Which was wrong as he demonstrably wasn't on lap 1.

#176 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 12:14

:confused: No indeed you didn't. You said "He was quicker than Di Resta all weekend." Which was wrong as he demonstrably wasn't on lap 1.

Come on now, don't be foolish. As if +/- 200m from the start to first corner counts for anything. As I already explained, Sutil was stuck on the inside, whilst Di Resta had free space. As if coming off the line means you're quicker or not.

Edited by DutchQuicksilver, 31 July 2013 - 12:14.


#177 marcoferrari

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 15:01

Was in front of Sutil after lap 1 anmd finushed the race. Looks better to me than what Sutil did. diResta is dominating Sutil this season.


Sutil retired from 8th place, DiResta retired from 14th place... So, please don t fools us with statements that DiResta was better... My prediction is with this generation of tyres DiRestas performance nightmare is back... And domination looks different to me as DiResta already didn t pass even Q1 3times this year...

Edited by marcoferrari, 31 July 2013 - 15:02.


#178 Currahee

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 17:38


I'm a di Resta fan and he was awful in Hungary.

He just couldn't get any rhythm all weekend.

But all the talk that he is destroying Sutil or Sutil is destroying di Resta is nonsense.

Both and fairly evenly matched and a few hundredths between them in qualifying can be a big difference when the points are dished out on the Sunday.

One thing though Force India need to sort out their slump.

#179 Scorg

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 20:33

They will need to work on getting the car to work with the new spec tyres since this years car was very much a product of design to match what Pirelli had designed themselves.


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#180 packapoo

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 03:17

Seems to be a factor, shame really.

#181 marcoferrari

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 14:56

Great race from Adrian again. Finally back to scoring after the misfortune in Hungary, where he was on the way for points. I really enjoyed the passes on Guttierez and DiResta, another 3 (Bottas, Pérez, Hulkenberg) were even not shown...


Edited by marcoferrari, 25 August 2013 - 14:57.


#182 encircled

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:00

Did FI took a gamble and set their cars up for a wet race? They're at the bottom of the speed trap @ 327 km/h.



#183 Currahee

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:40

Did FI took a gamble and set their cars up for a wet race? They're at the bottom of the speed trap @ 327 km/h.

 

They must have. 

 

big gamble. Will it pay off?



#184 encircled

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:48

I guess we'll just have to wait then, if it will rain in the race.



#185 race addicted

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 10:56

Dissapointing how they've lost their competitiveness so badly after the summer break. Those mistakes and mishaps earlier are even more annoying now, when it seems they have no chance of matching McLaren's pace. (...when before they were quicker.)



#186 sopa

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 19:28

Some people have been claiming that di Resta typically drops off in performance in the second half. It looks more and more like there is some truth in it as di Resta is not able to keep up his performance for the whole year. I remember more such drivers, who had trouble performing in the second half after a very impressive first half of the season, notably Trulli.

 

But now let's see if Sutil can capitalize on it like Hulkenberg very much managed last year. But FI performance has dropped off, so di Resta has a decent chance of remaining ahead on points.



#187 Anderis

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 19:38

Yeah, di Resta is really interesting case. He is really getting worse compared to his team-mate as season progresses for 3rd year in row. It's hard to downplay it as a coincidence or something. Might it be that he is good at finding performance from the car just from the start but he fails to push the car's development and set-up work towards his liking as much as other drivers? Or is he very average in raw pace but great in adaptability so he adapts so much quicker than others so has a drop off when others adapt as well? I'm curious what the explanation is.



#188 midgrid

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 11:35

That double points-finish should be a good boost for the team, and, with Hülkenberg's late retirement, the WCC picture looks slightly more rosy.

#189 marcoferrari

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 13:23

I think they waited too long with Adrian... At least two points, but it could have been better...



#190 Currahee

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 13:24

Good race for Force India.

 

Sutil had a great 1st stint. How many laps did he run before coming in?



#191 marcoferrari

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 13:26

Good race for Force India.

 

Sutil had a great 1st stint. How many laps did he run before coming in?

I guess 42... So, then "loong" 18 on the softer tyre...


Edited by marcoferrari, 27 October 2013 - 13:26.


#192 marcoferrari

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 16:34

I guess 42... So, then "loong" 18 on the softer tyre...

 

Now I see he was the only one outside the top 10, who used old option tyres and no new ones??? What kind of strategy is that???



#193 Scorg

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 18:17

One that appeared to work, he did 18 laps on the softs and they survived, he only lost a place to DiResta and in the grand scheme of things for the team, the result turned out the same.

I doubt the result could have been any different even if he pitted earlier, its possible it could have been worse if he had to do more laps on the softs or even worse, have to do a two stopper



#194 marcoferrari

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 20:07

One that appeared to work, he did 18 laps on the softs and they survived, he only lost a place to DiResta and in the grand scheme of things for the team, the result turned out the same.

I doubt the result could have been any different even if he pitted earlier, its possible it could have been worse if he had to do more laps on the softs or even worse, have to do a two stopper

 

And that was the plan! Why he didn t use a new set of option tyres like everyone else? DiResta was running always with fresh tyres and made only one single lap with those "crappy" softs... This strategy clearly prefered DiResta (not for the first time) as it is neccessary for him to stay ahead of Sutil in standings!


Edited by marcoferrari, 27 October 2013 - 20:09.


#195 BRG

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 20:22

This strategy clearly prefered DiResta (not for the first time)

 

Which makes up for the several times that Farce India's qualifying 'strategies' have disadvantaged di Resta.  



#196 marcoferrari

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 20:37

Which makes up for the several times that Farce India's qualifying 'strategies' have disadvantaged di Resta.  

Or Di Resta was just painfully slow, But as usual, for his incompetence he blamed the team ... It happened most of the time in mixed conditions, when he just overdrove the tyres or made mistakes (Canada, Monaco, Malaysia, etc.)... The staff (Fernley, Stevenson and co) probably thinks he is another Jackie Stewart or Jim Clark, someone should give them a wake up call...  



#197 BRG

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 16:59

And yet he is still 12 points ahead of his team-mate.  Not bad for a complete w-anchor.  Or maybe you are the one that needs a wake-up call.



#198 sopa

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 17:26

Marcoferrari, I admire that you are a dedicated and a passionate fan of drivers, who do not have a big following. But you get carried away with it in the process.