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Ferrari F138: the race car


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#601 gramsy1977

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 17:39

Woahhh...

Posted Image

I'm sure it's there for a reason but imagine it without the sharkfin. Wicked!

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#602 Arry2k

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 17:42

Having read Massa's comments, things seem positive - so much better than last year - and having covered 64 laps without any major dramas on day one is not too bad. Let's hope that they continue to make progress.

Edited by Arry2k, 05 February 2013 - 17:43.


#603 fabr68

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 17:48

After the first day of testing one thing is certain. The car is absolutely beautiful.

#604 sheepgobba

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 17:52

I'm sure it's there for a reason but imagine it without the sharkfin. Wicked!


Are those gold materials on the exhaust and rear suspension sensors?

#605 gramsy1977

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 17:54

Are those gold materials on the exhaust and rear suspension sensors?

Heat sensors I think.

#606 V3TT3L

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 18:04

Posted Image

#607 Markn93

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 18:06



#608 Spa

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 18:06

It was difficult to be worse than last year but anyway, so far so good... I will go to Jerez on Thursday to get a closeup view of that red beauty.

Cheers! ;-)


#609 gramsy1977

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 18:12

It was difficult to be worse than last year but anyway, so far so good... I will go to Jerez on Thursday to get a closeup view of that red beauty.

Cheers! ;-)

It's not a matter of being better or worse if last year's main problem (correlation) is still there. If this is solved then things would be much more straightforward and better of course. Have fun at Jerez and send feedback...please

Edited by gramsy1977, 05 February 2013 - 18:13.


#610 F.M.

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 18:17

Having read Massa's comments, things seem positive - so much better than last year - and having covered 64 laps without any major dramas on day one is not too bad. Let's hope that they continue to make progress.

Having overheating problems at 10degC ambient temperature is not that good though

#611 Spa

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 18:17

It's not a matter of being better or worse if last year's main problem (correlation) is still there. If this is solved then things would be much more straightforward and better of course. Have fun at Jerez and send feedback...please

Agreed, but last year problems in winter testing were much more than correlation issues...

Cheers!

#612 SCUDmissile

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 18:23

Having overheating problems at 10degC ambient temperature is not that good though

Small overheating problems are nothing compared to a fuel pump failure and fire.

First day with the new car, and a rear that tightly packaged, I am not surprised there is some overheating.

GA and Felipe's comments are a MASSIVE positive. The no. of laps done was good so off to a good start. Still apprehensive, but since GA was happy, i'm happy as he was observing what the cars handled like.

The McLaren goes like hell though, however I believe they didn't have that much more time in it today. RedBull look reliable and haven't shown their cards yet. But Ferrari don't seem to give a **** about the times either. Lotus as well, looking solid and It might just be a very interesting fight at the front this year.

I think the diffuser used on the car was from the F2012.

I am just happy there isn't the reaction there was last year.

Can't wait till Pedro gets in the car. If he is positive, then correlation is good in my book.

I have been, and will stay apprehensive, however this was a good good day for Ferrari fans.

Edited by SCUDmissile, 05 February 2013 - 18:24.


#613 Cacarella

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 18:23

Having overheating problems at 10degC ambient temperature is not that good though



Where did you find the information about overheating?

I only read that they were having issues with the cooling in the cockpit (driver cooling).

Massa said early issues with the F138 have cropped up - like the need to improve cooling in the cockpit - but there were no alarm bells ringing about significant performance problems. "I don't think it is a difficult thing to fix," he said. "I am not disappointed definitely.



#614 kosmos

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 18:24

I come from work, barely had time to check anything today but I'm glad to read so many positive comments and not the usual doom.

#615 gramsy1977

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 18:25

Agreed, but last year problems in winter testing were much more than correlation issues...

Cheers!

Indeed. And that's why most of us praised the efforts of the technical staff as they catched up with the frontrunners but eventually correlation problems hurt them as midway in the championship they reached a deadend in development and windtunnel to track data didn't match most of the times. Anyway, let's just hope this is solved and I think we're gonna be just fine. After all, it was just three points and a second place at WCC despite all these problems.

#616 gramsy1977

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 18:27

Where did you find the information about overheating?

I only read that they were having issues with the cooling in the cockpit (driver cooling).

Yes I read this too. I think he was referring to the cockpit.

#617 F.M.

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 18:42

Where did you find the information about overheating?

I only read that they were having issues with the cooling in the cockpit (driver cooling).

I read this quote We didn't drive a lot; we had a few issues in the car in terms of temperature inside so you open the car to understand. like them opening the car up in garage (taking body panels off) to check things. So not the cockpit, but underneed the engine cover.

#618 Ferrari2183

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 18:47

I think the mechanical parts are burning his butt inside the cockpit.

#619 monacogp

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 18:48


Well its pretty obvious McLaren have done a superb job, and are some way ahead of us but it is encouraging that we are starting from a decent base, lets hope we don't have last year's correlation issues and we look like we'll be in the game.

I know its just testing but McLaren look amazing. My only worry would be that they have built a championship winning car, I would hate to have a rocket-ship this year and lose to a one-of-a-kind feat of engineering.

Reading Massa's comments on Autosprint, he said that maybe he could have approached Grosjean and Webber's times, but that Button's time was very very fast....

We'll have to wait and see, but so far, best package out of the box has to be McLaren. On hard tyres and using DRS only on the straights as well..... I really hope they ran on fumes.

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#620 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 18:49

Well its pretty obvious McLaren have done a superb job, and are some way ahead of us but it is encouraging that we are starting from a decent base, lets hope we don't have last year's correlation issues and we look like we'll be in the game.

I know its just testing but McLaren look amazing. My only worry would be that they have built a championship winning car, I would hate to have a rocket-ship this year and lose to a one-of-a-kind feat of engineering.

Reading Massa's comments on Autosprint, he said that maybe he could have approached Grosjean and Webber's times, but that Button's time was very very fast....

We'll have to wait and see, but so far, best package out of the box has to be McLaren. On hard tyres and using DRS only on the straights as well..... I really hope they ran on fumes.


Let's pack up and focus on 2014 then. Jesus christ....

#621 monacogp

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 18:59

Let's pack up and focus on 2014 then. Jesus christ....


Stop being ridiculous. Having said that Massa's words not mine, and Button's time and his opponents appreciation of it - not mine. I see no gloom and doom in my post, but I don't see the need to sugar-coat the fact that the McLaren is running amazingly fast out of the box.

#622 gramsy1977

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 19:03

Stop being ridiculous. Having said that Massa's words not mine, and Button's time and his opponents appreciation of it - not mine. I see no gloom and doom in my post, but I don't see the need to sugar-coat the fact that the McLaren is running amazingly fast out of the box.

Fair enough but you should check Button's words too. He mentions fuel loads, so yes his time was very good but that doesn't mean McLaren is the faster. It just means it's fast.

#623 Shiroo

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 19:04

Well its pretty obvious McLaren have done a superb job, and are some way ahead of us but it is encouraging that we are starting from a decent base, lets hope we don't have last year's correlation issues and we look like we'll be in the game.

I know its just testing but McLaren look amazing. My only worry would be that they have built a championship winning car, I would hate to have a rocket-ship this year and lose to a one-of-a-kind feat of engineering.

Reading Massa's comments on Autosprint, he said that maybe he could have approached Grosjean and Webber's times, but that Button's time was very very fast....

We'll have to wait and see, but so far, best package out of the box has to be McLaren. On hard tyres and using DRS only on the straights as well..... I really hope they ran on fumes.

I will quote myself from McLaren thread

if you are reading from that time anything lul. I believe all cars except Marusssia and Caterham could go into 1:18 easly on these tyres. Last year they had 1:18, and these old cars did improve by about 1sec over the season (at LEAST!). I believe all top teams could go low 1:17 in jerez


And Grosjean said also that they could easly respond to other people fast times. It doesn't mean a crap atm. Believe me that Massa would do 1:18 easly as well. Unless the car is total shit and even worse than last year. and it is clear that it isnt

Edited by Shiroo, 05 February 2013 - 19:05.


#624 Cacarella

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 19:06

I read this quote We didn't drive a lot; we had a few issues in the car in terms of temperature inside so you open the car to understand. like them opening the car up in garage (taking body panels off) to check things. So not the cockpit, but underneed the engine cover.


Thanks - Didn't see that

#625 Ferrari2183

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 19:09

Stop being ridiculous. Having said that Massa's words not mine, and Button's time and his opponents appreciation of it - not mine. I see no gloom and doom in my post, but I don't see the need to sugar-coat the fact that the McLaren is running amazingly fast out of the box.

Stop making things up. Massa never said that he couldn't match Button's time. How can that be when Alonso set an 18:8 in the dog of a F2012 last year at the same test and Massa just today confirmed that the F138 is on another planet compared to the F2012 handling wise.

Unless, unless... Massa was drunk and Ferrari have actually gone backwards.

This of course doesn't mean that the McLaren is not fast because it seems it is but cut the embellishing of what Massa said.

#626 SCUDmissile

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 19:16

Stop making things up. Massa never said that he couldn't match Button's time. How can that be when Alonso set an 18:8 in the dog of a F2012 last year at the same test and Massa just today confirmed that the F138 is on another planet compared to the F2012 handling wise.

Unless, unless... Massa was drunk and Ferrari have actually gone backwards.

This of course doesn't mean that the McLaren is not fast because it seems it is but cut the embellishing of what Massa said.

:up: :lol:

Button said the F150 was 2 seconds a lap faster than everybody else after testing....

Massa just said the time was incredible. First day of testing, and the F2012 in Alonso's hands managed something similar in a MUCH slower car on slower tyres.
Facts is, times are nothing today.

#627 TIFOlonSO

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 19:17

Our friend PayasYouRace was on Jerez circuit today http://forums.autosp...p;#entry6117510

on Ferrari:
"
The car looked pretty fast at times but I felt Massa wasn't giving the full beans. He seemed a bit cautious on the throttle and when he pushed harder the car seemed a bit twitchy. The car also looked a but snaky under braking. Felipe seemed to struggle getting into the final hairpin. Looks superb though, and has a lovely sound. Interesting off-throttle whine. Also sounds great on the pit limiter, with a melodious "wa-wa-wa-wa". Ferrari were obviously on a program of aero tests with Massa doing a number of constant speed runs on the straights. There were also a number of burnouts and practice starts plus a lot of driving through the pits and stop-and-gos.
"

#628 showtime

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 19:21

Stop being ridiculous. Having said that Massa's words not mine, and Button's time and his opponents appreciation of it - not mine. I see no gloom and doom in my post, but I don't see the need to sugar-coat the fact that the McLaren is running amazingly fast out of the box.


What fact? Do you know if that time was really that fast? Did you say the same last year when Raikkonen and Di Resta were 2 secs in front of the McLaren (fastest car in the first GP)?

#629 Ferrari2183

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 19:25

Our friend PayasYouRace was on Jerez circuit today http://forums.autosp...p;#entry6117510

on Ferrari:
"
The car looked pretty fast at times but I felt Massa wasn't giving the full beans. He seemed a bit cautious on the throttle and when he pushed harder the car seemed a bit twitchy. The car also looked a but snaky under braking. Felipe seemed to struggle getting into the final hairpin. Looks superb though, and has a lovely sound. Interesting off-throttle whine. Also sounds great on the pit limiter, with a melodious "wa-wa-wa-wa". Ferrari were obviously on a program of aero tests with Massa doing a number of constant speed runs on the straights. There were also a number of burnouts and practice starts plus a lot of driving through the pits and stop-and-gos.
"

This right here is what matters most during testing. I wonder if we will get to here from Heidfeld this year???

#630 SCUDmissile

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 19:28

Our friend PayasYouRace was on Jerez circuit today http://forums.autosp...p;#entry6117510

on Ferrari:
"
The car looked pretty fast at times but I felt Massa wasn't giving the full beans. He seemed a bit cautious on the throttle and when he pushed harder the car seemed a bit twitchy. The car also looked a but snaky under braking. Felipe seemed to struggle getting into the final hairpin. Looks superb though, and has a lovely sound. Interesting off-throttle whine. Also sounds great on the pit limiter, with a melodious "wa-wa-wa-wa". Ferrari were obviously on a program of aero tests with Massa doing a number of constant speed runs on the straights. There were also a number of burnouts and practice starts plus a lot of driving through the pits and stop-and-gos.
"


Comments like that do show that despite a fantastic debut for the F138, feet need to be kept on the ground. They do have their own program though.

#631 jstrains

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 19:41

3 new pix from AMS.de

http://img4.auto-mot...2688-659069.jpg
Posted Image

http://img3.auto-mot...4aa4-659071.jpg
Posted Image

http://img3.auto-mot...67e8-659072.jpg
Posted Image

#632 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 19:43

2012 diffuser? Looks identical. Hopefully they have something new in the pipeline.

#633 jstrains

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 19:52

Ferrari vs Red Bull comparison. It appears very similar to me...

http://img1.auto-mot...2af6-659057.jpg
Posted Image

http://img3.auto-mot...67e8-659072.jpg
Posted Image

Edited by jstrains, 05 February 2013 - 19:57.


#634 One

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 19:55

3 new pix from AMS.de

http://img4.auto-mot...2688-659069.jpg
Posted Image

http://img3.auto-mot...4aa4-659071.jpg
Posted Image

http://img3.auto-mot...67e8-659072.jpg
Posted Image


The rear end looks really tight.
But curious about the comments made by PayasYouRace. Sounds like a bumpy nervous a$$ ...

#635 SCUDmissile

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 20:10

Massa: “First impressions are positive”

Experience counts and Felipe Massa is well aware of that, especially when it comes to the debut of a new Formula 1 car, when it’s that initial feeling that matters. Today, in the hands of the Brazilian, the Ferrari F138 got its first kilometres under its belt – 284 to be precise – during the opening day of a month of testing spent on Spanish soil. Felipe seemed calm and relaxed at the end of the day and that’s the impression he gave the journalists here in Jerez, as he told them he was pleased with the work the team had done. “The first impression is definitely a positive one,” maintained the Ferrari man. “We did not run as much as I had expected, but that’s normal when you are testing a new car. On a track like this where traction counts for a lot and the tyres feel it, I got a positive feeling as far as the balance of the car is concerned and I think that, especially at the rear, we are going in the right direction and it feels more solid. It’s definitely a different situation to last year, because the basis for this year is in much better shape. There is still a way to go before we understand the true behaviour of the car, but we are on the right road. There is still a great deal to do, as far as testing and development are concerned, but I am confident that this year, we will not lose time in understanding, as happened in 2012, what was the problem and how to solve it. Now we have a little more than a month to concentrate on the job, to be as well prepared as possible for the first race.”

Scuderia Ferrari was sixth on the time sheet, but it’s always difficult to evaluate what that means during testing, because of the usual unknowns linked to fuel load and in this case, the fact it’s the very first day, when the work schedule can vary a lot from team to team. Tomorrow, Felipe will be back at the wheel for another busy session.


http://www.ferrari.c...0205-massa.aspx

#636 LateApex

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 20:11

Ferrari vs Red Bull comparison. It appears very similar to me...

http://img1.auto-mot...2af6-659057.jpg
Posted Image

http://img3.auto-mot...67e8-659072.jpg
Posted Image


Are those passive DRS outlets just forward of the rear light (flowviz on the RB)?

#637 rsaca

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 21:06

Fair enough but you should check Button's words too. He mentions fuel loads, so yes his time was very good but that doesn't mean McLaren is the faster. It just means it's fast.


Not only that, the Mclaren can be faster than Ferrari but that doesn't matter if it doesn't finish races... And we know who the king of reliability is in Formula 1.

#638 Jamiednm

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 21:16

The McLaren goes like hell though, however I believe they didn't have that much more time in it today.


What do you base that opinion on?

#639 chumma

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 21:37

What do you base that opinion on?

+1 I'd like to know what you base the 'had not much more time in it today' on?

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#640 Gintonious

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 21:41

Good days work, usualy system checks and all that jazz.

Hopefully this test will give a good base for the upgrades and other things that will come.

#641 SCUDmissile

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 22:08

+1 I'd like to know what you base the 'had not much more time in it today' on?

I guess I worded that badly. I meant that with the conditions the way they were and being the first day on the new cars, I don't believe it was possible to go much faster than that today. This is shown when Webber and Massa talked about Button's time.

I know teams were probably holding back, however that time was still very quick for the first day on a green track which is why I said it.

I also meant 'they' to be the teams and not just McLaren.

Sorry for the misunderstanding but back OT. Do you guys think we will see newer parts on the F138? Or more measuring devices?
The diffuser, and exhaust outlets still seem like they are from 2012. The rear has been rightly praised, but I think some of it is from the F2012. I guess those parts are coming for later.

Btw, I don't see Ferrari going for a RedBull style ramp anymore. It might mess up that clean rear they got, however I do think we will possibly see a new outlet for the exhausts as part of an upgrade package.
It seems that Ferrari will bring 2 big packs. One for the second, and another for the third test.

#642 ed24f1

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 22:20

Means very little, but Andrew Benson has done the laptime averages, and Ferrari were 2nd.

"McLaren fastest by far, Ferrari slightly faster than Red Bull, Lotus and Toro Rosso both decent too"

https://twitter.com/...917358624468992

By the way, this is my first pre-season testing season living in Europe, still feels very weird to have the tests on during the day!

Edited by ed24f1, 05 February 2013 - 22:21.


#643 rsaca

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 22:38

Means very little, but Andrew Benson has done the laptime averages, and Ferrari were 2nd.

"McLaren fastest by far, Ferrari slightly faster than Red Bull, Lotus and Toro Rosso both decent too"

https://twitter.com/...917358624468992

By the way, this is my first pre-season testing season living in Europe, still feels very weird to have the tests on during the day!


Is he computing only "flyer" laps?

I ask because most teams would do a hot lap (1:21-ish), then a cool down lap (1:30-ish) and then another hot one. This could screw up averages and may not tell the complete picture.

#644 ed24f1

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 23:05

Who knows how he thinks, his written analysis is regularly wrong so I wouldn't be surprised if his mathematical analysis was. Haha

I agree that there is very little merit to it, but still mildly interesting.

#645 monacogp

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 00:12

Stop making things up. Massa never said that he couldn't match Button's time. How can that be when Alonso set an 18:8 in the dog of a F2012 last year at the same test and Massa just today confirmed that the F138 is on another planet compared to the F2012 handling wise.

Unless, unless... Massa was drunk and Ferrari have actually gone backwards.

This of course doesn't mean that the McLaren is not fast because it seems it is but cut the embellishing of what Massa said.


Lets get something straight. I don't make things up, and it is quite rude of you to say so without asking for a source as confirmation. Which is here:

Felipe Massa è stato il primo a inchinarsi: «Il 19”7 (tempo di Webber e Grosjean, ndr) forse è alla nostra portata, ma un 1’18”8 è molto, molto veloce... Però bisogna vedere quanta benzina c’era, e come è stato usato il Drs...»
http://www.auto.it/a.....po di Button?

Blame Massa for not knowing what he is talking about if you like, but don't arbitrarily decide I am making things up, because when I can show I'm not, you are revealed as the one with opinions which are not rooted in reality - not the other way around.


Moving on there are rumors circulating of a structural deficiency of the rear wing.

#646 ViMaMo

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:38

What a relief hearing Massa's approval. I dont know why we are reading too much into the times, maybe n the later tests perhaps.
But hearing comments from a on track observer is a very good indicator. Seems the car is still a bit nervous. Hope we they can solve it !

Edited by ViMaMo, 06 February 2013 - 01:41.


#647 sheepgobba

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 02:13

Well its pretty obvious McLaren have done a superb job, and are some way ahead of us but it is encouraging that we are starting from a decent base, lets hope we don't have last year's correlation issues and we look like we'll be in the game.

I know its just testing but McLaren look amazing. My only worry would be that they have built a championship winning car, I would hate to have a rocket-ship this year and lose to a one-of-a-kind feat of engineering.

Reading Massa's comments on Autosprint, he said that maybe he could have approached Grosjean and Webber's times, but that Button's time was very very fast....

We'll have to wait and see, but so far, best package out of the box has to be McLaren. On hard tyres and using DRS only on the straights as well..... I really hope they ran on fumes.


McLaren I can't see winning the championship. Jensen is good driver and sure WDC but he's no Lewis, Seb or Fernando. For McLaren to win the title I really think they need to give Jensen a perfect car, but in this world perfection rarely comes around. Mclaren will win races and all but their lack of consistency/Button's will be more playing.

#648 BigCHrome

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 02:21

McLaren I can't see winning the championship. Jensen is good driver and sure WDC but he's no Lewis, Seb or Fernando. For McLaren to win the title I really think they need to give Jensen a perfect car, but in this world perfection rarely comes around. Mclaren will win races and all but their lack of consistency/Button's will be more playing.


True, but on the other hand, Alonso has the "curse of #3" to contend with this year. I can't see him being in the championship fight for long.

#649 magicon

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:08

lewis is not there anymore to take points from jb.

What rumours about the rw? That does not sound good.

#650 Ferrari2183

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:12

Lets get something straight. I don't make things up, and it is quite rude of you to say so without asking for a source as confirmation. Which is here:

Felipe Massa è stato il primo a inchinarsi: «Il 19”7 (tempo di Webber e Grosjean, ndr) forse è alla nostra portata, ma un 1’18”8 è molto, molto veloce... Però bisogna vedere quanta benzina c’era, e come è stato usato il Drs...»
http://www.auto.it/a.....po di Button?

Blame Massa for not knowing what he is talking about if you like, but don't arbitrarily decide I am making things up, because when I can show I'm not, you are revealed as the one with opinions which are not rooted in reality - not the other way around.


Moving on there are rumors circulating of a structural deficiency of the rear wing.

This is the quote you posted translated.

Felipe Massa was the first to admit: "The 19" 7 (time of Webber and Grosjean) perhaps is within our reach, but a 1'18 "8 is very, very fast... But you have to see how much fuel there was, and was the DRS used...

Says nothing about not being able to match the time at all and I believe he was referring to his potential time with his fuel load. Alonso matched that time in last years car that was quite frankly terrible to drive.