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Ferrari F138: the race car


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#651 jstrains

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:15

Curses are there to be broken. I would not draw any conclusions after first day of testing with a car that will not be used like this for the first race. Do not forget that McLaren were the fastest in 2005 but lack on reliability. The same last year :wave:

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#652 pit5bul

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:20

fast or not fast... the new Ferrari is a beauty !! best looking car ever.. im not a Ferrari fan but i cant stop admiring this beautiful car ! Good luck this year ! lets hope it will be a 5 way battle and you guys will have a better qualifying car ! Now that LH is gone from McLaren and the pack looks even... lets hope we get a variety of pole sitters !

#653 TF110

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:41

Rear wind endplate looks like teeth at the bottom. I expect them to extend the length of them.


I called it! I knew they would extend those rear wing 'slots'. Looks great! As does their unique take on the 'monkey seat' wing.
Posted Image

Edited by TF110, 06 February 2013 - 05:42.


#654 jstrains

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:28

What is a monkey seat? :rolleyes:

#655 TF110

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:06

What is a monkey seat? :rolleyes:

The little wing behind the engine cover between the rear wing endplates. They nicknamed it a 'monkey seat' because of it's size.

#656 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:43

Lets get something straight. I don't make things up, and it is quite rude of you to say so without asking for a source as confirmation. Which is here:

Felipe Massa è stato il primo a inchinarsi: «Il 19”7 (tempo di Webber e Grosjean, ndr) forse è alla nostra portata, ma un 1’18”8 è molto, molto veloce... Però bisogna vedere quanta benzina c’era, e come è stato usato il Drs...»
http://www.auto.it/a.....po di Button?

Blame Massa for not knowing what he is talking about if you like, but don't arbitrarily decide I am making things up, because when I can show I'm not, you are revealed as the one with opinions which are not rooted in reality - not the other way around.


Moving on there are rumors circulating of a structural deficiency of the rear wing.


Well, it's not exactly uncommon here that people say things without being able to back them up. So I suggest you add the source link right away, when claiming that somebody said something. (Edit: and like Ferrari2183 has shown, examining the link reveals something different than what you claimed - that's the beauty of links.)

Speaking of links, where from is the info about the RW? It's not in the Autosprint link.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 06 February 2013 - 07:57.


#657 boldhakka

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:18

Well, it's not exactly uncommon here that people say things without being able to back them up. So I suggest you add the source link right away, when claiming that somebody said something. (Edit: and like Ferrari2183 has shown, examining the link reveals something different than what you claimed - that's the beauty of links.)

Speaking of links, where from is the info about the RW? It's not in the Autosprint link.


Please stop attacking posters who offer valuable translations. They bring much more to the thread than the hordes of armchair analysts here.

monacogp never claimed anything different from what Massa said. This was his original translation:

Reading Massa's comments on Autosprint, he said that maybe he could have approached Grosjean and Webber's times, but that Button's time was very very fast....


This is reasonably accurate and matches the one F2183 posted. He may have read more into it than most others would, but he never made things up.

You and Ferrari2183 accuse him of making things up, don't give him the benefit of the doubt, and now you have the nerve to demand (not even ask politely) for a link to the rear wing info.

Edited by boldhakka, 06 February 2013 - 08:25.


#658 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:40

Please stop attacking posters who offer valuable translations. They bring much more to the thread than the hordes of armchair analysts here.

monacogp never claimed anything different from what Massa said. This was his original translation:


This is reasonably accurate and matches the one F2183 posted. He may have read more into it than most others would, but he never made things up.

You and Ferrari2183 accuse him of making things up, don't give him the benefit of the doubt, and now you have the nerve to demand (not even ask politely) for a link to the rear wing info.


Chill, dude.

I didn't accuse him of making things up, I just said it's a good idea to provide links when quoting, instead of getting annoyed at replies who ask for supporting links. I don't know why you would have a problem with that. (Edit: and we only know whether it's a valuable translation once we have seen the source. You know that honest translation mistakes happen)

And I didn't demand anything, I just asked for the link about the RW info. It's true though that I'm getting a bit tired of having to do that.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 06 February 2013 - 08:43.


#659 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:42

Please keep to the topic and be civil and stop attacking each other there is a big difference in "You are a liar" and "I don't think that translation is 100% correct". Please supply links to the sources.

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#660 Ferrari2183

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:27

Please stop attacking posters who offer valuable translations. They bring much more to the thread than the hordes of armchair analysts here.

monacogp never claimed anything different from what Massa said. This was his original translation:


This is reasonably accurate and matches the one F2183 posted. He may have read more into it than most others would, but he never made things up.

You and Ferrari2183 accuse him of making things up, don't give him the benefit of the doubt, and now you have the nerve to demand (not even ask politely) for a link to the rear wing info.

In my mind it is not accurate at all. In his initial statement he leaves out the fuel load bit and emphasises certain words in italics...

Anyway, mods have spoken, lets get back to discussing the car.

#661 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:54

Posts deleted, this thread is for discussing the car, it is not for a running discussion of testing please take that to the live page or the testing thread

#662 monacogp

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:15


Here is my original quote:

"Reading Massa's comments on Autosprint, he said that maybe he could have approached Grosjean and Webber's times, but that Button's time was very very fast...."

The translation is accurate, full stop.

As for the other link someone requested regarding rumours about rear-wing structural deficiencies, it was also on Autosprint. Exactly one click away. Here:

"Anche così però girano le prime voci, una delle quali - tutta da confermare - riguarda una presunta debolezza strutturale sull’alettone posteriore della F138."

http://www.auto.it/a...Ferrari a Jerez

I believe that rumours about the car may have their place on this thread and will follow up on them if I find anything else.

#663 jstrains

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:15

Another snap shot of the F138*s rear this time with the measuring devices in front of the rear tyres

Posted Image

Edited by jstrains, 06 February 2013 - 12:16.


#664 Gintonious

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:16

Vents added along the cockpit as well.

#665 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:17

I believe that rumours about the car may have their place on this thread and will follow up on them if I find anything else.


Absolutely they have, and thanks for the link.


#666 OO7

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:18

Woahhh...

Posted Image

The packaging there is incredible! :eek: :up:

#667 jstrains

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:19

Vents added along the cockpit as well.


Do you mean those dark outlets alongside the cocpit under Hublot sign?

#668 Ferrari2183

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:19

Ferrari twitter saying they are evaluating different exhaust systems. From the pics I've seen it looks the same on the exterior... Are they fiddling around with the length of the pipes and mapping?

#669 monacogp

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:27

Other similar comments suggesting that for now, Ferrari may not be at the same level as the others :

"Nelle dichiarazioni post test, Felipe Massa ha promosso la vettura ed ha definito il debutto della F138 molto migliore rispetto alla F2012. Chi era in pista, invece, parla di una Ferrari, per ora, non a livello di Red Bull, McLaren e Lotus."

http://www.f1analisi...si-tecnica.html

Edited by monacogp, 06 February 2013 - 12:28.


#670 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:30

Autosport Live is saying (at 12:23) that Jenson's time yesterday was set on the optional supersoft tyres, which McLaren had ordered. Does anybody know which tyres Massa used on his fastest lap?

#671 showtime

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:33

In the presentation it was said that the car in Jerez would be very basic because of the delay related to keep pushing for the Championship last year. Big upgrades will come for Barcelona and Australia. I know most of the teams will have them but I expect Ferrari's to be bigger steps.

#672 monacogp

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:36

Autosport Live is saying (at 12:23) that Jenson's time yesterday was set on the optional supersoft tyres, which McLaren had ordered. Does anybody know which tyres Massa used on his fastest lap?


I'm pretty sure everything I read yesterday said he did that time on hards using DRS only on the straights. Massa I believe was using medium, but don't quote me - I'll check.

#673 zare88

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:36

Autosport Live is saying (at 12:23) that Jenson's time yesterday was set on the optional supersoft tyres, which McLaren had ordered. Does anybody know which tyres Massa used on his fastest lap?

Mediums i think

#674 Peter3hg

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:41

Autosport Live is saying (at 12:23) that Jenson's time yesterday was set on the optional supersoft tyres, which McLaren had ordered. Does anybody know which tyres Massa used on his fastest lap?


Actually it says that Jenson's time was set on the hard tyres.

#675 skakavac111

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:43

Mediums i think


12:23 Confused about tyre choices for the first test? Pirelli, as ever, is happy to explain:

"We had some questions on the supersoft. Pirelli chose 20 sets of tyres per team (all the same), none of which [were] super-softs. Each team could then chose a further 15 sets, some of which may have been super-softs but that's not for us to comment. All clear now?

"Fastest time yesterday was set by Jenson Button on the new orange hard compound. Jenson's time was 1m18.861s. Fastest time last year on day one was 1m19.670s, set on a medium.

"So the first tendancy shows that this year's hard compound is faster than last year's medium - that's what we wanted to achieve."

Edited by skakavac111, 06 February 2013 - 12:44.


#676 showtime

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:45

Pirelli Media ‏@Pirelli_Media
Fastest time yesterday was set by Jenson Button on the new orange hard compound. Webber's fastest time was set on the white medium. #f1


#677 Massa

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:00

Hulkenberg, about difference between Ferrari engines and Mercedes :

"Mercedes has the most power at the top, but the Ferrari is better in the mid range.



#678 Zava

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:01

ferrari testing the caterham-like exhaust winglet, which is, I assume, is not raceable, according to James Allison.

Edited by Zava, 06 February 2013 - 13:01.


#679 showtime

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:05

It may be just for gathering data.

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#680 fabr68

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:07

I'm pretty sure everything I read yesterday said he did that time on hards using DRS only on the straights. Massa I believe was using medium, but don't quote me - I'll check.


This year hard tire is faster than the medium compound

http://www.pirelli.c...2013-compounds/

Anyways, I would not get too concerned with the times of the first day of testing. Most teams will change a lot until getting to Melbourne and there is where it counts.


#681 jstrains

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:08

What does this technical regulation 5.8.4 say about it?

#682 showtime

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:08

This year hard tire is faster than LAST YEAR'S medium compound

http://www.pirelli.c...2013-compounds/



#683 boldhakka

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:10

This year hard tire is faster than the medium compound

http://www.pirelli.c...2013-compounds/

Anyways, I would not get too concerned with the times of the first day of testing. Most teams will change a lot until getting to Melbourne and there is where it counts.

:confused:

From the link you gave:
"The new medium tire is not dissimilar to last year’s soft, making it around 0.8 seconds per laps faster than the hard"

#684 showtime

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:10

What does this technical regulation 5.8.4 say about it?


5.8.4 Once the exhaust tailpipes, the bodywork required by Article 3.8.4 and any apertures
permitted by Article 3.8.5 have been fully defined there must be no bodywork lying within a
right circular truncated cone which :
a) Shares a common axis with that of the last 100mm of the tailpipe.
b) Has a forward diameter equal to that of each exhaust exit.
c) Starts at the exit of the tailpipe and extends rearwards as far as the rear wheel centre
line.
d) Has a half-cone angle of 3° such that the cone has its larger diameter at the rear wheel
centre line.
Furthermore, there must be a view from above, the side, or any intermediate angle
perpendicular to the car centre line, from which the truncated cone is not obscured by any
bodywork lying more than 50mm forward of the rear wheel centre line.


#685 Zava

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:12

It may be just for gathering data.

yeah, I think so as well, I didn't want to imply they are cheating (like you can do that in testing), probably for checking how the car reacts with better aimed exhaust flow.

#686 jstrains

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:23

Cheating is nowadays called pushing to the limits (that is at least what Red Bull did in the past). I am sure that Charlie will clarify on this before Melbourne

#687 Ferrari2183

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:42

Other similar comments suggesting that for now, Ferrari may not be at the same level as the others :

"Nelle dichiarazioni post test, Felipe Massa ha promosso la vettura ed ha definito il debutto della F138 molto migliore rispetto alla F2012. Chi era in pista, invece, parla di una Ferrari, per ora, non a livello di Red Bull, McLaren e Lotus."

http://www.f1analisi...si-tecnica.html

This statement is just the author deducing, from what Massa said yesterday, that the car is not as good as the McLaren, Red Bull and Lotus. He is entitled to think that.

I don't think Ferrari will have the fastest car come Melbourne but I hope they are there or there abouts.

#688 ApexMouse

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:53

http://www.f1fanatic...-jere-20131.jpg

Interesting 'black thing'. Also multiple outlets in the heat shielding area. Could it be that they try to blow the beam wing? Wouldn't make much sense to me.
Removed img tags as its a bit big.

Edited by Gilles4Ever, 06 February 2013 - 13:55.


#689 showtime

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:55

Cheating is nowadays called pushing to the limits (that is at least what Red Bull did in the past). I am sure that Charlie will clarify on this before Melbourne


If that piece is really there to stay (i don't think so) I hope it's given the same treatment by the FIA. "You have been using illegal parts but it's ok as long as you don't do it again"

#690 jstrains

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:58

According to AMuS Ferrari is worried about their speed a little bit, but do not admit this to the public :wave:

#691 Shiroo

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 14:04

According to AMuS Ferrari is worried about their speed a little bit, but do not admit this to the public :wave:

I would say that they are not on the same level of performance as 3 top teams at the moment (McLaren, RBR, Lotus). But I believe Ferrari will catch up. Even Fry mentioned at presentation that they need to do some catch up due to long 2012 campaign
Hopefully, Massa exaggerated Button's yesterday time, coz even today Gro did better time in 6 lap stint so it wasnt even quali lap, on hards. Ferrari need to have similar pace at least (I believe so).

#692 jstrains

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 14:06

I would say that they are not on the same level of performance as 3 top teams at the moment (McLaren, RBR, Lotus). But I believe Ferrari will catch up. Even Fry mentioned at presentation that they need to do some catch up due to long 2012 campaign
Hopefully, Massa exaggerated Button's yesterday time, coz even today Gro did better time in 6 lap stint so it wasnt even quali lap, on hards. Ferrari need to have similar pace at least (I believe so).


I think as long as they can rely on the big updates everything will be fine. They seem to be confident and know what they are doing :wave:

#693 Shiroo

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 14:10

I think as long as they can rely on the big updates everything will be fine. They seem to be confident and know what they are doing :wave:

Hopefully. I would be really happy to see 4 team fight at the very top

#694 ApexMouse

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 14:12

I would say that they are not on the same level of performance as 3 top teams at the moment (McLaren, RBR, Lotus). But I believe Ferrari will catch up. Even Fry mentioned at presentation that they need to do some catch up due to long 2012 campaign
Hopefully, Massa exaggerated Button's yesterday time, coz even today Gro did better time in 6 lap stint so it wasnt even quali lap, on hards. Ferrari need to have similar pace at least (I believe so).


There is absolutely no way anybody on this board can tell. I don't think they've even done a 'proper' run today. It seems to me like their just using Jerez for simulation and data logging, correlation work. Perhaps wise, to help in season dev work and wait for the new parts onstream from barca onwards. They've placed more emphasis than most on the fact their last test package is substantial.

Perhaps you tifosi need a new wallpaper? http://www.formule1....60150835.85.jpg
And split deflectors under the nose, new? Mac are running something similar albeit triple-cut. http://www.formule1....60146902.46.jpg

Edited by ApexMouse, 06 February 2013 - 14:24.


#695 magicon

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 14:13

I am switching on my low expectations mode hehehe.

#696 jstrains

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 14:16

There is absolutely no way anybody on this board can tell. I don't think they've even done a 'proper' run today. It seems to me like their just using Jerez for simulation and data logging, correlation work. Perhaps wise, to help in season dev work and wait for the new parts onstream from barca onwards. They've placed more emphasis than most on the fact their last test package is substantial.


That might explain why Fernando is having off right now...


Edited by Mandzipop, 06 February 2013 - 15:08.
This is not an Alonso thread


#697 showtime

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 14:18

I am switching on my low expectations mode hehehe.


After last two seasons it's the only rational mode to start with.

#698 boldhakka

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 14:24

According to AMuS Ferrari is worried about their speed a little bit, but do not admit this to the public :wave:


Ferrari are sandbagging (figuratively) and doing a very good job of it.

#699 Gintonious

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 14:24

Time will tell how we go, I am realistic expectations, but I like what we see so far.

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#700 FerrariFanInTexas

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 14:31

Felipe is currently on a pretty long run, very consistent times, and faster than Perez on a similar long run.

What can we deduce from that? McLaren are hopelessly outclassed? Perez is terribad and will bring shame to his family and his people?

Relax, it's only testing.