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Ferrari F138: the race car


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#1051 ApexMouse

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 16:06

The g's generated under accel are nowhere near those generated in braking, so why would the flow shift in equal amounts.

And HPT, I think its just some guys idea.

Edited by ApexMouse, 19 February 2013 - 16:06.


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#1052 kosmos

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 16:06

Great amount of laps today, the car looks solid at least.

#1053 Timstr11

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 16:09

I just watched an interesting video. Sorry if it is already shared.


I think it's fantasy.

The same thing was said about the Mercedes front wing remember? I'm sure it's still somewhere on Youtube.

#1054 Tuxy

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 16:39

WOW, is this system actually in place?!

How can the air travel through the system fast enough for it to work as intended?

#1055 whoisjohngalt

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 16:45

Good amount of laps from Ferrari. Just a bit concerned with the tyre degradation.

#1056 ferrarijon123

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 16:55

Alonso "Of my four winters with Ferrari, this is the most comfortable, because the data is consistent between the wind tunnel and the track"

#1057 showtime

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:03

Alonso "Of my four winters with Ferrari, this is the most comfortable, because the data is consistent between the wind tunnel and the track"


Best news possible tbh, whatever the real pace is. :cat:

#1058 OneAndOnly

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:10

Alonso "Of my four winters with Ferrari, this is the most comfortable, because the data is consistent between the wind tunnel and the track"

It was about the $%&%$ time.
I was a bit concerned about reliability after the first test, but today Alonso had (trouble free?) nice amount of laps so I guess we didn't sacrifice reliability for speed.

#1059 VIVAFERRARI

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:11

Alonso "Of my four winters with Ferrari, this is the most comfortable, because the data is consistent between the wind tunnel and the track"


It sounds nice. I do not understand one thing. Was Fernando on hard tyres(with orange stripe) on his fastest lap?

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#1060 ferrarijon123

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:13

It sounds nice. I do not understand one thing. Was Fernando on hard tyres(with orange stripe) on his fastest lap?

Pirelli said on Twitter that the top 3 including Alonso were all on mediums.

#1061 whoisjohngalt

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:22

"One area Alonso was not happy, however, was with the Pirelli tyres, saying the rapidly degrading rubber made it difficult to evaluate a new car in the cold conditions."

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/101060.html



#1062 fabr68

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:36

110 laps and no problems. Good Job

#1063 ZuTiMa

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:37

Great amount of laps today, the car looks solid at least.



Agree ... I was worried after the launch that we might have gearbox / cooling problems with the new tight rearend... but touch wood so far reliabilty seems ok... good number of laps done today ...nearly 2 full race distance

Here is hoping for the same the next few days .... and no rain!

#1064 jstrains

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:41

Wind tunnel corelation problems solved finally :clap:

#1065 fabr68

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:43

Wind tunnel corelation problems solved finally :clap:


Well, I don't think there were correlation issues with the Toyota wind tunnel...

#1066 PoleMan

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:47

110 laps and no problems. Good Job

Considering this was Fernando's first time in the new car, and first time in a modern F1 since last year, the generally smooth running and top 3 time can only be seen as a positive. :cool:

The tyres...they're the same for everyone, and Ferrari will have to adjust to that.

#1067 Seanspeed

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:48

Wind tunnel corelation problems solved finally :clap:

Wouldn't get too excited yet.

Alonso says a lot of misleading things.

I'm more eager to hear what Pat Fry has to say on the new car since its been put through some running.

#1068 SCUDmissile

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:48

Wind tunnel corelation problems solved finally :clap:

:up: For now.

But it is looking like the F138 is the car that the F2012 was meant to be. Some very interesting bits on this, and this is just the launch version.
It now looks like the exhaust is further in the bulge, and that the bulge is now just there for show. Is that what AMuS means?

Very happy with the no. of laps done though. And the slot seems to be more refined as well.

#1069 VIVAFERRARI

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:58

Pirelli said on Twitter that the top 3 including Alonso were all on mediums.

I see. But still this is a good time and nice amount of laps. I hope he was with heavier car(these are just my wishes). We will see soon who has written his homework better :).

I am warried about the tyres. I won't be happy if they have lead role...again

#1070 rsaca

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:59

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#1071 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:13

Alonso according to AMuS

"Das neue Auto ist in Ordnung. Es fühlt sich ungefähr gleich an wie beim Finale in Brasilien. Das heißt, dass wir noch arbeiten müssen. In Brasilien sind wir in der Liga von Force India und Sauber gefahren und waren weit weg von Red Bull und McLaren. Das kann nicht unser Anspruch sein. Wir brauchen noch einen großen Schritt."


"The new car is ok. It feels approximately the same as at the season final in Brazil. This means that we have more work to do. In Brazil we were in a league with FI and Sauber and were a long way from RB and McL. That cannot be our aspiration. We need a big step."

"Die böse Überraschung vom Vorjahr blieb uns erspart." Der Champion von 2005 und 2006 räumte ein, dass es bei den Testfahrten in Barcelona schwierig wird, sich ein klares Bild von den Autos zu machen. "Die Reifen halten gerade mal eine Runde. In dieser einen Runde müssen wir versuchen, das Auto und neue Teile daran zu verstehen. Dann brechen die Rundenzeiten um zwei, drei Sekunden ein, und da wird es mit einer Standortbestimmung schon schwieriger."


'"We have saved ourselves from a bad surprise like last year". The 2005 and 2006 champion conceded that it is difficult to form a picture from Barcelona testing. "The tyres are only good for a single lap. During this lap we need to try and understand the car and any new parts. After that, the lap times decrease by 2 or 3 secs, and then it's more difficult to know where you are"'

#1072 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:15

:up: For now.

But it is looking like the F138 is the car that the F2012 was meant to be. Some very interesting bits on this, and this is just the launch version.
It now looks like the exhaust is further in the bulge, and that the bulge is now just there for show. Is that what AMuS means?

Very happy with the no. of laps done though. And the slot seems to be more refined as well.


I found that part difficult to translate. What they said in German was basically that the bulges are much less accentuated, and more or less meld into the sidepot

#1073 Seanspeed

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:23

"The new car is ok. It feels approximately the same as at the season final in Brazil. This means that we have more work to do. In Brazil we were in a league with FI and Sauber and were a long way from RB and McL. That cannot be our aspiration. We need a big step."

Not encouraging at all.

I've been hesitant to say much, but the noises coming from the team haven't been all that positive. Best thing we hear is, "Oh, its not a disaster like it was this time in 2012", which doesn't really make me all that happy considering things couldn't have been much worse this time last year.

I've been slowly lowering my expectations. I'm not completely writing off 2013, but I'm starting to think 2014 will be our best bet to get back on top of things.

#1074 SCUDmissile

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:28

Not encouraging at all.

I've been hesitant to say much, but the noises coming from the team haven't been all that positive. Best thing we hear is, "Oh, its not a disaster like it was this time in 2012", which doesn't really make me all that happy considering things couldn't have been much worse this time last year.

I've been slowly lowering my expectations. I'm not completely writing off 2013, but I'm starting to think 2014 will be our best bet to get back on top of things.

Hmm yeah you could be right. The team has definitely been less eager to say positive things this year. Maybe because of what went on last year?
We shall see.

I'm a little concerned with the tyre degradation, but apart from that it looks alright.

#1075 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:31

I know it was me who posted it, but otherwise I'm ignoring all that. Like you said, Alonso said enough confusing things in the past, and what we currently hear from the drivers could mean anything from an average car (measured against their own expectations) to the dominator of 2013. What I find interesting is that Dom and Pat are super quiet this year, while very talkative last year. And that could also mean anything.

#1076 SCUDmissile

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:38

However, then we have this. Alonso playing poker?

Fernando Alonso: “I feel reasonably pleased with this first day and I can say I share Felipe’s opinion that the car is on another planet compared to the one we began with on the first day of testing last year.


http://www.ferrari.c...-his-debut.aspx

He di say though, that this was hs best winter, (so far, as much as it can be after 1 day :lol: )

#1077 rsaca

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:41

Worried about tyre degradation?

Posted Image

Edited by rsaca, 19 February 2013 - 18:45.


#1078 BestCarWins

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:42

On the whole "team only saying it's not a disaster like last year", the only comments I've seen from the Red Bull guys say similar things like "we are in a better position than we were at this time last year." I know their car was not as bad as the Ferrari at this point last year but it still had some issues. Pretty sure Rosberg for Mercedes has said similar too... not sure about Mclaren. Lotus seem the happiest at this point.

Seems to be standard PR for this winter testing period.

#1079 Guizotia

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:48

On the whole "team only saying it's not a disaster like last year", the only comments I've seen from the Red Bull guys say similar things like "we are in a better position than we were at this time last year." I know their car was not as bad as the Ferrari at this point last year but it still had some issues. Pretty sure Rosberg for Mercedes has said similar too... not sure about Mclaren. Lotus seem the happiest at this point.

Seems to be standard PR for this winter testing period.


Rosberg not a good example: ""It's a much, much better base. You can feel its centre of gravity is lower. The aero is better. The platform is better. It feels a lot stronger. It's a pleasure to drive because it's a lot faster than last year."

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#1080 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:59

Worried about tyre degradation?

Posted Image


Well you can't really expect them not to conduct tyre measurements, can you. A single pic showing them doing just that means nothing. And Ferrari are not the only team who has huge degradation here at these temps.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 19 February 2013 - 19:18.


#1081 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 19:00

Rosberg not a good example: ""It's a much, much better base. You can feel its centre of gravity is lower. The aero is better. The platform is better. It feels a lot stronger. It's a pleasure to drive because it's a lot faster than last year."


Rosberg is not a good example simply because he had only good things to say about his Merc cars in each years' winter.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 19 February 2013 - 19:01.


#1082 PoleMan

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 19:03

Seems like the same Alonso interview from AMuS, but this is from the Beeb. His referenc to the car being similar to Brazil is a positive here, not a negative. Go figure? :confused:



"The feeling in the car was OK, more or less as expected," said Alonso.
"It's a continuation of the Brazil car [from the end of last season], let's say, more or less the same feeling.
"I have the same seat, the same pedals, the same everything so when you jump in the car it should be more or less the same as Brazil, so this is at least something good, not like last year when we drove for the first time we were a little bit surprised on the bad side.
"There is a lot of work to do in the next days for tyres, aerodynamics, experimental things that we need to do in the car. We need to do a lot of mileage to prove the cars are strong enough to race."


#1083 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 19:04

The complete quote via Adam Cooper:

“I feel reasonably pleased with this first day,” he said. “And I can say I share Felipe’s opinion that the car is on another planet compared to the one we began with on the first day of testing last year. The programme for this first session in Barcelona is aimed mainly at improving reliability, with the target of completing more than a hundred laps every day.

“Then, at next week’s test we can concentrate on performance. Tomorrow, we will complete what we were unable to do today and we will focus on car set-up, to adapt it as well as possible to the tyres. I knew from looking at the Jerez data what sort of car I would find here today, as in fact we know more or less what we will see at the first race in Australia, in terms of what new parts we will have and how many tenths they will produce.

“This is down to all the work done over the winter in the wind tunnel and the numerous tests which confirm that the parts that are on their way will give the expected results.”


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 19 February 2013 - 19:06.


#1084 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 19:05

Seems like the same Alonso interview from AMuS, but this is from the Beeb.


Must have come from a press release or news agency, Autosport has the exact same quotes.


#1085 Ferrari2183

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 19:11

The complete quote via Adam Cooper:

This is the first time I hear Alonso so confident that new parts will work as expected.

#1086 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 19:15

This is the first time I hear Alonso so confident that new parts will work as expected.


Yeah well, I don't think he knows what "confirmed" means, in "numerous tests which confirm that the parts that are on their way will give the expected results.” I will take it as confirmation when these parts are on the car and actually bring the predicted gains, not before.

#1087 ArkZ

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 19:19

Comments I found:

Official web
"I feel reasonably pleased with this first day and I can say I share Felipe’s opinion that the car is on another planet compared to the one we began with on the first day of testing last year. The programme for this first session in Barcelona is aimed mainly at improving reliability, with the target of completing more than a hundred laps every day. Then, at next week’s test we can concentrate on performance. Tomorrow, we will complete what we were unable to do today and we will focus on car set-up, to adapt it as well as possible to the tyres. I knew from looking at the Jerez data what sort of car I would find here today, as in fact we know more or less what we will see at the first race in Australia, in terms of what new parts we will have and how many tenths they will produce. This is down to all the work done over the winter in the wind tunnel and the numerous tests which confirm that the parts that are on their way will give the expected results."

Autosport
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105626

F1fanatic
"I don’t know how much we’ve found. The feeling is difficult to to compare the cars we should do one lap in last year and one lap in this year."
"The feeling with the car is similar to drive because there is a not a big change in the rules. When you have a big change in the rules, from V10 to V8 or from Michelin to Bridgestone or to Pirelli, there is always a special first day in the car because there is many things to learn, many new things that come to you."
"But when there is a continuation of last year, driver feeling when you jump in the car is more or less similar of last year."
"But I’m sure we will be strong in Australia, that is when we need to be."
"We need to improve what we did last year because obviously it is not enough to finish second, we want to finish first. And as I said before to improve the first part of the year I think it is not going to be too difficult. So we are relatively confident."
"Obviously we concentrate in our job, we don’t know what the others are doing","It’s not maybe the best option to test in winter when you have a tyre that do one lap."
"Because we have so many stuff to test and so many new things that we need to have clear and good information on those parts and you only have one lap to understand what you put in the car because then you are two, four, six seconds off the pace so… it’s the same for everybody so we need to understand these new tyres better than the others, see if we can, and make them last as much as possible."

ESPN
"The feeling with the car was OK, as expected more or less," Alonso said." It's a similar continuation of the Brazil car, let's say, so it's more or less the same feeling. I have the same seat, I have the same pedals, I have the same everything so when you jump in the car more or less the performance should be the same as Brazil"
"It's nothing really surprising you when driving, so this is at least something good, not like last year when we drove for the first time we were a little bit surprised on the bad side. We have a lot of work to do; a lot of work to do in the next days for the tyres, for the aerodynamics, for some new components and experimental things that we have in the car. We need to keep doing a lot of mileage; in Jerez we had some mechanical problems - especially with Pedro we lost one morning - so we need to put some good laps in this test to prove the car is strong enough to race."
"The neck is now a little bit stiff but it's normal on the first day; whatever neck training you do the car is a killer on that. It depends how many laps you do but if on the first day you do 100 laps in Barcelona this feeling is a little bit normal."
"Obviously we concentrate on our job - we don't know what the others are doing - but it's maybe not the best option to test in the winter when you have a tyre that will do one lap because we have so much stuff to test and so many new things that we have to have clear and good information on those parts. You only have one lap to understand what you put on the car because then you are two, four, six seconds of the pace. But it's the same for everybody so we need to understand these new tyres better than the others if we can and try to make them last as much as possible."



There are some strange and different comments form various sources, probably because journalists edited it by their own feelings about what Alonso said and not exactly what he said. It's hard to find comments from both Felipe and Fernando about direct comparison of pace between F2012(from USA and Brazil) and F138 ,probably because it's hard to do such comparison right now, for sure F138 is easier to drive more stable,more df... compared to F2012(from pre-season test) but that's nothing new. The early spec of F2012 was disaster and by the mid of the season the car was already way better. Hopefully we will not face ourselves in OZ with predictable and easy to drive car but 1,5s of the pace (like in 2011).

#1088 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 19:28

It's a shame that we never know if something was said by Alonso in Spanish and then translated to English, or if he talked in English, etc. The ESPN quote reads as if it is a not so flowing translation from Spanish, possibly by Alo talking English. It also seems as if he actually gave more than one interview, and said similar, but not the same, things in each. I think that's something that happens a lot when someone gets one mic after the other shoved into their face. The bolded part in the ESPN does not read like he's talking about car performance, but his feeling in the car, and his own performance. The quote from the official web are certainly not Alo's original word in English, he does not use native idioms quite so perfectly. The F1Fanatic contains "we have so many stuff to test", which is incorrect English and could be his own words.

In short, not much should be read into any of it.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 19 February 2013 - 19:31.


#1089 rsaca

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 19:51

It's a shame that we never know if something was said by Alonso in Spanish and then translated to English, or if he talked in English, etc. The ESPN quote reads as if it is a not so flowing translation from Spanish, possibly by Alo talking English. It also seems as if he actually gave more than one interview, and said similar, but not the same, things in each. I think that's something that happens a lot when someone gets one mic after the other shoved into their face. The bolded part in the ESPN does not read like he's talking about car performance, but his feeling in the car, and his own performance. The quote from the official web are certainly not Alo's original word in English, he does not use native idioms quite so perfectly. The F1Fanatic contains "we have so many stuff to test", which is incorrect English and could be his own words.

In short, not much should be read into any of it.


Yeah, you basically have to read between the lines in order to understand what he said.

#1090 Seanspeed

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 20:03

I'm just not happy with him saying the car feels like it was in Brazil.

That means there hasn't been any noticeable leap in downforce or driveability, which were things that were apparent flaws on last year's car. You could see how much they hacked and sawed at the wheel. They really had to push to the ragged edge and I was hoping this year would result in a more stable and easy-to-drive car.

#1091 Mc_Silver

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 20:06

Rosberg is not a good example simply because he had only good things to say about his Merc cars in each years' winter.


Exactly :p

#1092 Ferrari2183

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 20:56

I'm just not happy with him saying the car feels like it was in Brazil.

That means there hasn't been any noticeable leap in downforce or driveability, which were things that were apparent flaws on last year's car. You could see how much they hacked and sawed at the wheel. They really had to push to the ragged edge and I was hoping this year would result in a more stable and easy-to-drive car.

Well, if you consider that the car in its current guise is nothing more than a tidied up version of the F2012, with a few bells and wistles, then it doesn't sound that preposterous.

I am more interested in the developments that will be brought. This was meant to have started at this test.

#1093 chumma

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 21:14

car similar to Brazil? Surely that can't be a good thing? I mean, yeah its a 'safe' thing, but the car is Brazil compared to the McLaren was slow and off the pace, and fundamentally was still the F2012...if the cars on a different planet to the previous one, why so similar in the cockpit? This kind of reminds me of 2011, lots of promise but at the first race we may see them a little further down than expected? If you take into account the other top 3 all have bits to bolt on aswell....seems strange!

#1094 BigCHrome

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 21:20

However, then we have this. Alonso playing poker?
http://www.ferrari.c...-his-debut.aspx

He di say though, that this was hs best winter, (so far, as much as it can be after 1 day :lol: )


It's consistent with the other comments. Compared to the F2012 winter spec - the car is better. Compared to Brazil spec F2012, which was still slower than RBR and McLaren, it's not much different.

#1095 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 21:22

car similar to Brazil? Surely that can't be a good thing? I mean, yeah its a 'safe' thing, but the car is Brazil compared to the McLaren was slow and off the pace, and fundamentally was still the F2012...if the cars on a different planet to the previous one, why so similar in the cockpit? This kind of reminds me of 2011, lots of promise but at the first race we may see them a little further down than expected? If you take into account the other top 3 all have bits to bolt on aswell....seems strange!


Well as I said, it's pretty useless to interpret. But a few details:
1. I think it's unclear whether they meant "different planet" compared to the F2012 in winter testing, or in Brazil
2. Similar in the cockpit: because what he was talking about there was that the wheel layout is the same, pedals in the same spot, still a V8, etc. So not much change for him in this regard
3. Nobody knows anyway

#1096 Kimiraikkonen

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 21:36

Exactly :p


+1

Seems the F138 suffer a lot tyre deg (more than others), before to see lap by lap stints... :|

#1097 Seanspeed

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 21:47

Well, if you consider that the car in its current guise is nothing more than a tidied up version of the F2012, with a few bells and wistles, then it doesn't sound that preposterous.

I am more interested in the developments that will be brought. This was meant to have started at this test.

I just get the feeling we're going to start the season exactly where we left off, and that wont be nearly good enough. If any of the other teams like Sauber, Force India, Mercedes or Williams takes a step forward, we may get relegated to midpack.

#1098 chumma

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 21:47

Well as I said, it's pretty useless to interpret. But a few details:
1. I think it's unclear whether they meant "different planet" compared to the F2012 in winter testing, or in Brazil
2. Similar in the cockpit: because what he was talking about there was that the wheel layout is the same, pedals in the same spot, still a V8, etc. So not much change for him in this regard
3. Nobody knows anyway

Well it isnt number 1 because the car in Brazil was 'on a different planet' to its winter testing form.
The words "similar feeling" doesn't strike me as the aesthetics of the cockpit. I'll keep a close eye on the rest of their test, but right now, I haven't seen anything that makes me think they can challenge for top spot.

#1099 chumma

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 21:48

I just get the feeling we're going to start the season exactly where we left off, and that wont be nearly good enough. If any of the other teams like Sauber, Force India, Mercedes or Williams takes a step forward, we may get relegated to midpack.

That is my same sort of feeling, if they are .8 off pole in Australia....its going to be 'another' year that Ferrari play catch up

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#1100 Wuzak

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 21:55

"Similar feeling" could mean jus the general handling and balance of the car, which may have been very good in Brazil - but the relative lack of downforce/aerodynamic efficiency meant that it was slower than the McLaren/RBR.

This may not mean that the car lacks speed.