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Ferrari F138: the race car


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#1801 magicon

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 16:10

Just to chime in on the top speed discussion: I don't think it's that big a deal for the same reasons that have been discussed (too many variables we don't know), but it's still a good thing to see considering we can be fairly sure they never tried a full-on low drag configuration to get that top speed (especially since we know [or are at least fairly sure] they didn't have that package in Barcelona). So, overall, I do consider it to be, clearly, a good thing, and something we can be optimistic about.

On another note, I'm a bit confused about the Tombazis-Melbourne-package-working article. Is he referring to it working in the simulator? I thought the Melbourne package wasn't tested in its entirety in Barcelona..? I read the article and it doesn't seem to be clear on the matter.

Probably we've already seen most of the melbourne package. only small bits left maybe.

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#1802 Ferrari2183

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 16:16

Probably we've already seen most of the melbourne package. only small bits left maybe.

Yeah, I think all the big important pieces for Melbourne have been tested already. No way were the team going to go into the Australian GP blind on the major bits.

Edited by Ferrari2183, 07 March 2013 - 16:17.


#1803 kosmos

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 17:26

F1 2013 - Ferrari - The F138, from production to the track

F1 2013 - Ferrari - Double interview with Alonso and Massa

#1804 SCUDmissile

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 17:32

They could have done a straight line test, as well.

#1805 Mackey

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 17:39

Massa seems really optimistic. That´s always good news as he´s always very honest about his chances.

#1806 Ferrari2183

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 17:50

Massa seems really optimistic. That´s always good news as he´s always very honest about his chances.

Yep, it's nice to see him that confident.

Alonso is just being his normal self. Doesn't want to raise expectations.

#1807 jjcale

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 17:55

F1 2013 - Ferrari - The F138, from production to the track

F1 2013 - Ferrari - Double interview with Alonso and Massa


These two seem to have a really good relationship .... is it just for the cameras or do they genuinely get along?

#1808 Ferrari2183

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 17:58

These two seem to have a really good relationship .... is it just for the cameras or do they genuinely get along?

As of last year they've seemed to have formed a bond. Tagging each other in twitter posts and what not... They genuinely seem to have a lot of fun when they're together.

It wasn't always like that though. 2010, especially, was really iffy as far as I could tell.

#1809 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 18:02

They could have done a straight line test, as well.



Oooww, do you have a source please?

#1810 Arry2k

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 18:20

Oooww, do you have a source please?

Jose Luis F1 posted a rumour about an Idiada (the car proving ground in Spain) test on March 4th.

FA ‏@joseluisf1
Parece ser que en Idiada Ferrari también probara la gran evolución que van a poner en China



#1811 SCUDmissile

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 19:12

Oooww, do you have a source please?

No source, just presenting a theory.

#1812 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:44

Part 2 of test analysis by AMuS. Part 1 was where the top speeds came from, this time a close look at the sector times.

To be taken with a lot of caution (as AMuS itself knows), their F138 verdict is very positive. I'm translating the most important conclusions. As for methodology and other cars, please use machine translation (I'll help if something is unclear in the machine result).

Der Spanier war im ersten und im letzten Sektor der schnellste, büßte allerdings im Mittelsektor drei Zehntel auf die Mercedes ein. Der Ferrari kann offenbar alles ganz gut und er schont seine Reifen insoweit, dass auf den letzten 1,5 Kilometern trotz verschärfter Fahrt im ersten Sektor immer noch genügend Grip da ist. Mit 27,779 Sekunden wäre Alonso immer noch Dritter hinter den Mercedes.

The spaniard was the fastest in the first and third sector, but lost 0.3 to Merc in the second sector. The Ferrari is apparently reasonably good in all areas and saves its tyres sufficiently for still having enough grip on the last 1.5 km [third sector] despite pushing in the first sector. [In the second sector] Alonso, with 27.779, would still be third behind the Merc.

Der Ferrari F138 ist schnell auf der Geraden, schnell in schnellen Kurven, und er hat eine ausgezeichnete Traktion. Und das war einer der Schwachpunkte des Vorgängers. In der Qualifikation zum GP Spanien wurde Alonso im Schlusssektor mit 28,430 Sekunden gemessen. Das ging jetzt mit 27,519 Sekunden schon wesentlich besser. Man muss dabei allerdings einrechnen, dass Barcelona bei den niedrigen Temperaturen im Winter immer schnellere Rundenzeiten als beim Grand Prix erlaubt.

The F138 is fast on straights, quick in quick corners, and it has excellent traction [somewhat surprising, given Alonso's comments that traction is one of the areas needing improvement]. And that was one of the weak points of its predecessor. In quali for the Barcelona GP Alonso's last sector was timed at 28.430. Now, in testing, the car achieved a much improved 27.519. One has to consider, though, that the low winter temps allow for quicker lap times than at the GP.

Der erste Sektor verrät, dass Ferrari, Sauber und McLaren eine ordentliche Aerodynamik haben, und dass Mercedes da noch ein bisschen nachbessern muss.

The first sector shows that Ferrari, Sauber and McLaren have good aero, and Merc has to improve.

#1813 slmk

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:14

Part 2 of test analysis by AMuS. Part 1 was where the top speeds came from, this time a close look at the sector times.

To be taken with a lot of caution (as AMuS itself knows), their F138 verdict is very positive. I'm translating the most important conclusions. As for methodology and other cars, please use machine translation (I'll help if something is unclear in the machine result).

The spaniard was the fastest in the first and third sector, but lost 0.3 to Merc in the second sector. The Ferrari is apparently reasonably good in all areas and saves its tyres sufficiently for still having enough grip on the last 1.5 km [third sector] despite pushing in the first sector. [In the second sector] Alonso, with 27.779, would still be third behind the Merc.


The F138 is fast on straights, quick in quick corners, and it has excellent traction [somewhat surprising, given Alonso's comments that traction is one of the areas needing improvement]. And that was one of the weak points of its predecessor. In quali for the Barcelona GP Alonso's last sector was timed at 28.430. Now, in testing, the car achieved a much improved 27.519. One has to consider, though, that the low winter temps allow for quicker lap times than at the GP.


The first sector shows that Ferrari, Sauber and McLaren have good aero, and Merc has to improve.


First sector is not necessarily representative of downforce. There are more variables at play here, like gearing for instance. Look back at qualifying, did Williams, Mercedes and Ferrari had better downforce than McLaren (who was as fast, if not faster than RBR in the race)?

http://www.formula1....ctor_times.html



#1814 crespo

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:32

I believe joseluisf1 confirmed the straight-line test yesterday at Idiada.. Since I'm at work, could someone else check up on that?

#1815 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:52

First sector is not necessarily representative of downforce. There are more variables at play here, like gearing for instance. Look back at qualifying, did Williams, Mercedes and Ferrari had better downforce than McLaren (who was as fast, if not faster than RBR in the race)?

http://www.formula1....ctor_times.html


As I said: Take it with the proper caution, and for AMuS's reasoning (right or wrong) refer to the original article.


#1816 Szoelloe

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 13:02

Part 2 of test analysis by AMuS. Part 1 was where the top speeds came from, this time a close look at the sector times.

To be taken with a lot of caution (as AMuS itself knows), their F138 verdict is very positive. I'm translating the most important conclusions. As for methodology and other cars, please use machine translation (I'll help if something is unclear in the machine result).

The spaniard was the fastest in the first and third sector, but lost 0.3 to Merc in the second sector. The Ferrari is apparently reasonably good in all areas and saves its tyres sufficiently for still having enough grip on the last 1.5 km [third sector] despite pushing in the first sector. [In the second sector] Alonso, with 27.779, would still be third behind the Merc.


The F138 is fast on straights, quick in quick corners, and it has excellent traction [somewhat surprising, given Alonso's comments that traction is one of the areas needing improvement]. And that was one of the weak points of its predecessor. In quali for the Barcelona GP Alonso's last sector was timed at 28.430. Now, in testing, the car achieved a much improved 27.519. One has to consider, though, that the low winter temps allow for quicker lap times than at the GP.


The first sector shows that Ferrari, Sauber and McLaren have good aero, and Merc has to improve.


In Autosport mag, it is said that the F138 had very good traction on the first lap, but farther into a stint, the back-end started behaving. Maybe that's what Alonso was referring to. Could be totally different in normal temp conditions though, I don't know. Plus, it was a GA comment, of course.


#1817 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 13:21

In Autosport mag, it is said that the F138 had very good traction on the first lap, but farther into a stint, the back-end started behaving. Maybe that's what Alonso was referring to. Could be totally different in normal temp conditions though, I don't know. Plus, it was a GA comment, of course.


Thanks. That does not surprise me, given the well known tyre issues experienced by everyone.

#1818 Ferrari2183

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 13:33

First sector is not necessarily representative of downforce. There are more variables at play here, like gearing for instance. Look back at qualifying, did Williams, Mercedes and Ferrari had better downforce than McLaren (who was as fast, if not faster than RBR in the race)?

http://www.formula1....ctor_times.html

Why are you using 2011 results? We all know race pace is very different to quali pace... Qualifying pace is the only barometer of downforce we have.

Here are the 2012 sector times. Is it still indicative of nothing? We know that McLaren had the best aero package last year and the sector times show it.

#1819 slmk

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 14:48

Why are you using 2011 results? We all know race pace is very different to quali pace... Qualifying pace is the only barometer of downforce we have.

Here are the 2012 sector times. Is it still indicative of nothing? We know that McLaren had the best aero package last year and the sector times show it.


And Williams / Lotus had the second and third best aero packages as well...

I'm using 2011 because it shows a good example of a fast car with great aero and top speed doing poorly in Sector 1, while cars with inferior aero doing much better.

Just to reinforce the fact that being good in S1 has not that much to do with downforce.

Edited by slmk, 08 March 2013 - 14:52.


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#1820 Ferrari2183

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 15:15

And Williams / Lotus had the second and third best aero packages as well...

I'm using 2011 because it shows a good example of a fast car with great aero and top speed doing poorly in Sector 1, while cars with inferior aero doing much better.

Just to reinforce the fact that being good in S1 has not that much to do with downforce.

The Lotus was a very, very good car and Maldonado, I believe, hit a setup sweet spot in Spain. Anyway, during that phase of the championship it was very much a tyre lottery but to say that Sector 1 is not indicative of aero is just wrong. Sure, the speed down the straight makes a difference. Look at Hamilton and Raikkonen's top speeds and compare it to their sector time. Who had the better aero?

#1821 mkoscevic

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 15:31

These two seem to have a really good relationship .... is it just for the cameras or do they genuinely get along?


Barichello once said that he, Massa and Alonso used to hang up often and were quite close during F1 weekends so Massa and Alonso are old friends by now. Massa's Ferrari years, that Monza '06 thing and tough 2010 perhaps made them a bit more distant from each other, but it seems all is fine now. Great thing to see. :)

#1822 aray

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 15:37

Barichello once said that he, Massa and Alonso used to hang up often and were quite close during F1 weekends so Massa and Alonso are old friends by now. Massa's Ferrari years, that Monza '06 thing and tough 2010 perhaps made them a bit more distant from each other, but it seems all is fine now. Great thing to see. :)

it is a good sign as i expect Massa to be lot closer to Alonso than he was in the past three years..

#1823 Seanspeed

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 16:21

Barichello once said that he, Massa and Alonso used to hang up often and were quite close during F1 weekends so Massa and Alonso are old friends by now. Massa's Ferrari years, that Monza '06 thing and tough 2010 perhaps made them a bit more distant from each other, but it seems all is fine now. Great thing to see. :)

Dont forget Nurburgring 07! That was hilarious.

#1824 Rajdeep

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 17:14

The F138 is fast on straights, quick in quick corners, and it has excellent traction [somewhat surprising, given Alonso's comments that traction is one of the areas needing improvement]. And that was one of the weak points of its predecessor. In quali for the Barcelona GP Alonso's last sector was timed at 28.430. Now, in testing, the car achieved a much improved 27.519. One has to consider, though, that the low winter temps allow for quicker lap times than at the GP.


Would I be correct in thinking that the low winter temps allow greater engine power, which probably aides on the straight and to a much smaller extent, on the fast corners. I'm not sure how the low temp can be a help on the slow corners of S3. If that's the case, the improvement in braking and traction might be more genuine.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

#1825 Seanspeed

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 17:39

Would I be correct in thinking that the low winter temps allow greater engine power, which probably aides on the straight and to a much smaller extent, on the fast corners. I'm not sure how the low temp can be a help on the slow corners of S3. If that's the case, the improvement in braking and traction might be more genuine.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thats about right. Lower temps tend to mean less tire grip(but not always), but improvements in engine power and downforce.

Unless the car is overheating its tires in normal temperatures, colder temps really shouldn't have a positive effect on slow-corner, traction-based ability.

#1826 Ferrari2183

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 17:50

It should also be noted that the new Pirelli's offer more grip.

#1827 SCUDmissile

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 19:11

You guys seen the new Ferrari Formula 1 site?

looks slick.

#1828 muelte

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 19:26

Don't like the fonts they used at all. Paragraphs are a bit hard to read, at least for me.

Edited by muelte, 08 March 2013 - 19:27.


#1829 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 19:36

Adam Cooper did an analysis and after the disclaimers about lack of data dares to say this:
F138 showed the most consistent tyre behavior, but Ferrari didn't show their hand with long run tyre life. RB probably a bit in front, but Ferrari competitive in the top group of 5 teams.

#1830 Ferrari2183

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 20:14

I like the new site. Much better and more interactive than the previous version.

#1831 Szoelloe

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 20:19

Adam Cooper did an analysis and after the disclaimers about lack of data dares to say this:
F138 showed the most consistent tyre behavior, but Ferrari didn't show their hand with long run tyre life. RB probably a bit in front, but Ferrari competitive in the top group of 5 teams.


Beautiful. Andrew Benson level stuff. Benson would not have included the 'after the disclaimers about lack of data' part.


#1832 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 21:22

Beautiful. Andrew Benson level stuff. Benson would not have included the 'after the disclaimers about lack of data' part.


Yeah, it's lacking. But TBH even the most advanced analysis would not give you a better result than this :) Just one week to go

#1833 showtime

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 00:16

You guys seen the new Ferrari Formula 1 site?

looks slick.


Hmmmm no Davide Rigon amongst test drivers nor in the FDA section...

#1834 ed24f1

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:39

Sorry for the delay (I was in Portugal), but here are the pick of the rest of my testing F138 photos.

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

And a video (including RB, McLaren and Lotus also):

Like I said in the testing thread, I finally found a screen on late Saturday afternoon with split time and speed trap information (most recent laps only not best laps) in the pavilion near Turn 1, but they turned it off soon after, and it wasn't on on Sunday...

#1835 kosmos

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:03

I don't like the new site, it looks like some kind of facebook now, but it loads faster than before for me, so that's better.

#1836 jstrains

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 09:29

AMuS analysis: Ferrari strong in all areas

"The Ferrari F138 is fast on the straights, in fast corners, and he has excellent traction"

http://www.auto-moto...rk-6742689.html

Edited by jstrains, 09 March 2013 - 09:30.


#1837 TigersWood

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 19:53

The Ferrari 138 is fast, and if the correlation is good, we can finally hope to see Fernando Alonso fighting for the championship with a car that allows him to fight for poles and for victories in equal terms.



#1838 sheepgobba

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 06:12

The Ferrari 138 is fast, and if the correlation is good, we can finally hope to see Fernando Alonso fighting for the championship with a car that allows him to fight for poles and for victories in equal terms.


And hopefully win the title!

#1839 jstrains

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 08:01

And hopefully win the title!


When else if not this year?

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#1840 JustinD

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 08:41

I won't be convinced until melb qualifying. After last years turkey I have no confidence in the engineers.

#1841 Ravenak

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:17

F1 2013 - Ferrari - Double interview with Alonso and Massa


Nice, but they should have done it in Italian, like this one with Trulli and Fisi:

:p

#1842 steferrari

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:27

Nice, but they should have done it in Italian, like this one with Trulli and Fisi:

:p

Here you go. :)



#1843 kosmos

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:29

Super expert Gary Anderson will bet for Alonso to win the title.

http://www.crash.net...tm_campaign=rss




#1844 Ravenak

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:31

Here you go. :)


Haha thanks! Tempo is a bit faster but not as good as the other 2 ˆˆ

#1845 bonjon1979a

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:38

Super expert Gary Anderson will bet for Alonso to win the title.

http://www.crash.net...tm_campaign=rss


I think he's done that for the last three years!

#1846 SCUDmissile

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:48

Super expert Gary Anderson will bet for Alonso to win the title.

http://www.crash.net...tm_campaign=rss

The only title prediction I care about is Bernie's. Not saying anything, but the man is eerily on the mark... :cat:

But it is good to see that Ferrari and Alonso are talked about highly, especially as this time last year they where no-one's choice. Aside from maybe Peter Windsor who almost pulled off the call of the decade.

#1847 jstrains

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 13:17

Damon Hill and Lewis Hamilton tip Fernando for the 2013 WDC as well :clap:

#1848 aray

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 13:19

Super expert Gary Anderson will bet for Alonso to win the title.

http://www.crash.net...tm_campaign=rss

i hope he is right this time... :well:

#1849 kosmos

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 14:54

Felipe Massa:

As to the coming Championship, Felipe said, “I think the potential is there to fight at the front, even if at the moment, we don’t know where we are compared to the other teams. Apart from those who have been competitive so far, like McLaren, Red Bull and Lotus, there is also Mercedes, who were very strong in winter testing.

“But the moment of truth will come next week in Australia, in qualifying. Today, what matters to me is knowing that I have done a good job and that I have got a good feeling from the car, which is well designed and also easier to drive than last year’s car.


http://motorsport.ne...week,57539.html

Nothing specially new but another reassurance that the car has a solid base.


#1850 Seanspeed

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 15:07

Easier to drive is good to hear. Hopefully Massa can have a strong season.