Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 24 votes

Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
4001 replies to this topic

#651 jrg19

jrg19
  • Member

  • 6,118 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:58

I think its due to the fact the break lines might have to be re routed... so they have to work out where to put them without them failing?

Advertisement

#652 showtime

showtime
  • Member

  • 2,585 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:59

Interesting, google translated, quote from this article- http://www.auto-moto...ab-6588088.html

The repair of the parts is not a problem. This could be done in three hours. Problem is the brake line. The engineers have come up with a new solution. Although the second day of testing was completed in a short time, consoles himself co-owner Toto Wolff. "Lewis drove in his first lap with new tires from the medium as a time of 1.19,5 minutes. Least we now know that our car is competitive."

Is this implying they could have run but chose not to? Why not fix it, run this afternoon and install the new solution overnight? Hmm....


No, they are saying the parts damaged in the crash are not the problem, the brake line is (allegedly integrated in the cf).

#653 seahawk

seahawk
  • Member

  • 3,132 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:59

The damage caused by the crash could be repaired quickly, the brake line hower needs to changed and the whole routing changed so that it won´t leak again when rubbing against parts of the rear suspension.

Edited by seahawk, 06 February 2013 - 12:59.


#654 mlsnoopy

mlsnoopy
  • Member

  • 2,356 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:02

Interesting, google translated, quote from this article- http://www.auto-moto...ab-6588088.html

The repair of the parts is not a problem. This could be done in three hours. Problem is the brake line. The engineers have come up with a new solution. Although the second day of testing was completed in a short time, consoles himself co-owner Toto Wolff. "Lewis drove in his first lap with new tires from the medium as a time of 1.19,5 minutes. Least we now know that our car is competitive."

Is this implying they could have run but chose not to? Why not fix it, run this afternoon and install the new solution overnight? Hmm....


The translation is wrong.
"The engineers have to come up with a new solution"

#655 revlec

revlec
  • Member

  • 2,721 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:05

Well at least 14 laps was an improvement :rolleyes: Don't they check these things as/after they are manufactured and as they put the car together? Furthermore where does the blame lie in these circumstances?


Their quality control is not the best.
But I think they lack experience too, and it's not a coincidence if Ferrari has the best reliability(Ferrari has a track and has benifited from the days of unlimited testing to learn and perfect their reliability/manufacturing processes/design process).
RB for example is a fast car, but doesn't have the best reliability(another case of a lack of experience).
_
Things at Mercedes will slowly change with Lewis now as their driver and Aldo Costa.





#656 jrg19

jrg19
  • Member

  • 6,118 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:13

http://www.formule1....60150836.82.jpg

At least it looks nice. :)

#657 rhukkas

rhukkas
  • Member

  • 2,340 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:15

http://www.formule1....60150836.82.jpg

At least it looks nice. :)


Looks like a lot of singed bodywork from nico's fire yesterday

#658 boldhakka

boldhakka
  • Member

  • 2,802 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:17

http://www.formule1....60150836.82.jpg

At least it looks nice. :)


It does look good. Amazing how low the drivers sit.

#659 MirNyet

MirNyet
  • Member

  • 908 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:33

Their quality control is not the best.
But I think they lack experience too, and it's not a coincidence if Ferrari has the best reliability(Ferrari has a track and has benifited from the days of unlimited testing to learn and perfect their reliability/manufacturing processes/design process).
RB for example is a fast car, but doesn't have the best reliability(another case of a lack of experience).
_
Things at Mercedes will slowly change with Lewis now as their driver and Aldo Costa.


Not sure if this is a matter of quality control or just really having to be extreme on packaging. Of of the things that has happening in this generation of cars is that they are very aggressively packaged, more so around the rear end. Obviously this is drawn from the design direction of the RB5/RB6 - if you recall, those cars had a large number of parts failures due to this very reason.

Advertisement

#660 senna da silva

senna da silva
  • Member

  • 4,431 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:49

http://www.formule1....60150836.82.jpg

At least it looks nice. :)


Of all the cars, even with sponsors, I have to say the Merc looks the most uncluttered.
I'm really liking it and although there are the teething problems the car has shown it has some pace.
I'm cautiously optimistic.

#661 cooper

cooper
  • Member

  • 388 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:54

Missing the majority of two days testing is frustrating, especially when all the other teams seem to be hitting the ground running and just getting on with their programme.. It's doubley painful because seeing the McLaren looking so great (which is awesome as I also support Button) but it would still be great to see HAM capitalising on that good running time.

Neither the less.. This is only the second day in and things can only get better! At least with the McLaren and the 26 I hope there isn't a fundamental flaw in the build this is just ironing out a few creases and it's smooth running from there :)

#662 Markn93

Markn93
  • Member

  • 4,075 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 06 February 2013 - 14:25

Why didn't these problems show themselves on Monday? Would've been nice to get these out of the way pre test.

#663 Gilles4Ever

Gilles4Ever
  • RC Forum Admin

  • 20,065 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 06 February 2013 - 14:27

The Schumacher comments have been removed, it was turning into a hijack, please keep to the topic.

Edit: His not driving for the team or what his fans and those who are anti him think or feel is not for this thread.

#664 argiriano

argiriano
  • Member

  • 890 posts
  • Joined: January 06

Posted 06 February 2013 - 14:28

Lewis lock up before the crash. This is obviously not a lock up, it`s more like desperation to stay on track and trying to avoid the crash. :drunk:

http://pbs.twimg.com...Ai36f.jpg:large
http://pbs.twimg.com...Mep5g.jpg:large

Edited by argiriano, 06 February 2013 - 14:30.


#665 MikeTekRacing

MikeTekRacing
  • Member

  • 5,739 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 06 February 2013 - 14:38

yeap, it's a very similar incident to Silverstone 99. Luckily Lewis was unhurt
These things happen

#666 Jejking

Jejking
  • Member

  • 2,371 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 06 February 2013 - 14:57

Plain dumb is thinking they will be anywhere near the top. It doesn't matter how well Merc does and how much of a step forward they take, it just isn't possible to catch up this year. That's just being realistic.

We're at the 2nd of february, not at the 24th of november, thank you.

#667 jrg19

jrg19
  • Member

  • 6,118 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 06 February 2013 - 15:00

I think the car has pace, it was with the other cars in terms of times whilst running and probably would have moved along with them as the day progressed.

Maybe we should get worried if there is still no running after friday.

#668 F1ultimate

F1ultimate
  • Member

  • 2,861 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 06 February 2013 - 15:02

The car seems to have the reliability of a 1950s super sonic Soviet aircraft. At least engineering flaws are surfacing early on and will hopefully sort themselves out this week so that the next weeks of testing can be focused on developing the car and setting it up for Australia.

#669 showtime

showtime
  • Member

  • 2,585 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 06 February 2013 - 15:03

Crash video: http://t.co/blJc1Gsc

#670 jrg19

jrg19
  • Member

  • 6,118 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 06 February 2013 - 15:19

http://www.gpupdate....y-for-mercedes/

Car looks pretty stable between 0.20 and 0.35

#671 robefc

robefc
  • Member

  • 8,018 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 06 February 2013 - 15:20

Missing the majority of two days testing is frustrating, especially when all the other teams seem to be hitting the ground running and just getting on with their programme.. It's doubley painful because seeing the McLaren looking so great (which is awesome as I also support Button) but it would still be great to see HAM capitalising on that good running time.

Neither the less.. This is only the second day in and things can only get better! At least with the McLaren and the 26 I hope there isn't a fundamental flaw in the build this is just ironing out a few creases and it's smooth running from there :)


Trust me, if you're just a Lewis fan it's even more painful! :-(

I hope this all gets sorted, 2009 and 2011 were horrible following mclaren in testing and constantly getting told 'it's just testing' etc when in both cases, albeit for different reasons, the lack of progress was indicative of serious problems.

Still 2011 didn't turn out too bad by the first race!

#672 revlec

revlec
  • Member

  • 2,721 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 06 February 2013 - 15:21

I think the car has pace, it was with the other cars in terms of times whilst running and probably would have moved along with them as the day progressed.

Maybe we should get worried if there is still no running after friday.


I think the same. Look at where MAS and PER are with their cars.
Mercedes so far has done few laps but I am confident the car is decent.

#673 jrg19

jrg19
  • Member

  • 6,118 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 06 February 2013 - 15:33

http://youtu.be/F-Jqs9Ng4uI?t=22s

video of the incident.

#674 Markn93

Markn93
  • Member

  • 4,075 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 06 February 2013 - 15:36

I think the same. Look at where MAS and PER are with their cars.
Mercedes so far has done few laps but I am confident the car is decent.

Agreed. Have a feeling we may see one car (you know which one im thinking of) in the top 5 come Melbourne.

#675 jrg19

jrg19
  • Member

  • 6,118 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 06 February 2013 - 16:47

Lewis Hamilton described the moment his brakes failed while testing the Mercedes W04 for the first time at Jerez.

“Literally I just hit the brake and a split second it was working and then the pedal just went straight down and wouldn’t work,” he told media at Jerez. “I don’t know, I just had to brace for impact.”

Hamilton’s crash ended his first run in the car in official testing after just 15 laps. “This is what testing is all about of course we’d like to have done several days,” he said.

“It’s disappointing for all of us here in the team because everyone worked so hard over the winter. We didn’t anticipate this but I’m glad we get it out of the way now so we don’t have to worry about it happening in the future.”

Despite having had so little running Hamilton said the car showed potential: “I’m quite happy with it. I think we’ve got a good foundation.”

He set a best time of 1’19.515 which was still quick enough for sixth-fastest time at the end of the day. “That was an easy time to get,” he said. “There’s definitely more in it but I’m pushing the aero guys as hard as I can because we need more aero, for sure.”

“Coming from a McLaren that was so competitive at the end of last year, had incredible downforce, you definitely notice the difference But it’s nowhere near as bad as it could be.”

Hamilton took the opportunity to watch some of his rivals on the track. “The Red Bull looks real nice, as always, the Lotus looks real nice,” he said.

“I didn’t see the McLaren – I didn’t watch long enough to see the McLaren so I haven’t even seen [Sergio] Perez on track. The car does look nice.”

“You can’t get fazed by these days,” he said. “You’ve just got to keep looking forwards and remain positive. The guys in the garage, they’re not trying to have this kind of thing happen, they’re working as hard as they can, and back at the factory.

“I’m glad that this didn’t happen in the last test at Barcelona. that would really suck. But now we’ve got it out of the way. If there are any more problems to come I hope they come tomorrow and the next day so we can have clear days after that.”



http://www.f1fanatic...it-brake-pedal/

#676 showtime

showtime
  • Member

  • 2,585 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 06 February 2013 - 16:47

Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1
.@lewishamilton says "quite happy" with the Merc, but adds: "We need more aero, definitely. I definitely notice the difference" (to McLaren)


#677 F1ultimate

F1ultimate
  • Member

  • 2,861 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 06 February 2013 - 16:51

“Coming from a McLaren that was so competitive at the end of last year, had incredible downforce, you definitely notice the difference But it’s nowhere near as bad as it could be.”


http://www.f1fanatic...it-brake-pedal/

That's a decent quote from Lewis that perhaps indicates that we was anticipating the car to be worse.



#678 jrg19

jrg19
  • Member

  • 6,118 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 06 February 2013 - 16:54

I think he was to be honest, but we must remember that Nico said the car is a step forward so it probably has more downforce than the w03.

#679 LiJu914

LiJu914
  • Member

  • 1,776 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 06 February 2013 - 17:00

I think he was to be honest, but we must remember that Nico said the car is a step forward so it probably has more downforce than the w03.


It would be kind of scary, if it hadn´t.

Ps. Nico even said it´s a huge step forward. Yet no surprise, that it has still less DF than a 2012-McLaren considering how poor Merc was in the 2nd half of the season.

Edited by LiJu914, 06 February 2013 - 17:02.


Advertisement

#680 F1ultimate

F1ultimate
  • Member

  • 2,861 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 06 February 2013 - 17:04

It would be kind of scary, if it hadn´t.

Ps. Nico even said it´s a huge step forward. Still no surprise, that it has still less DF than a 2012-McLaren considering how poor Merc was in the 2nd half of the season.


In Barcelona we will find out just much downforce it lacks.

#681 slmk

slmk
  • Member

  • 4,398 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 06 February 2013 - 17:09

If the base is good and can be refined, then all is well. Perhaps they will have caught up by the European season (July).

#682 BoschKurve

BoschKurve
  • Member

  • 1,153 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 06 February 2013 - 17:10

It would be kind of scary, if it hadn´t.

Ps. Nico even said it´s a huge step forward. Yet no surprise, that it has still less DF than a 2012-McLaren considering how poor Merc was in the 2nd half of the season.


A huge step forward relative to the W03 still isn't saying much. If they haven't made up ground on the midfield teams, well, they're going to have a long season. My big question is whether or not the Brackley All-Stars have figured out how to at least match the other teams on the tire wear issue.

All the spin doctors on this team would have us believe everything is on the up-and-up...I mean after all they've got the DAI board convinced success is right around the corner in 2014.

#683 spacekid

spacekid
  • Member

  • 2,678 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 06 February 2013 - 17:16

Its pointless trying to read anything into the testing times, but sometimes the consistency in long stints can tell us something about how a car is treating its tyres - its a shame that Merc haven't been able to string together enough running to see if they still have their big tyre drop off problem.

The car may well have good and consistent pace, but all I'm seeing is the same old Mercedes from last year. First an overheating/wiring problem, then a brake failure. Do teams have testing rigs in the factory to fire these things up on and give a work out to, before bringing them to the track? I could be wrong, but these sound like basic flaws that are being shaken out just by the car running.

Mercedes were very sloppy last year, and have carried on exactly where they left off. My suspicion is the pace of the car will be about the same too - maybe 6th? - if Lewis thinks the downforce is down on last years McLaren, we assume McLaren and the teams around them have better downforce now, it could be a bigger gap than he's expecting.

#684 Shiroo

Shiroo
  • Member

  • 4,012 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 06 February 2013 - 17:19

Its pointless trying to read anything into the testing times, but sometimes the consistency in long stints can tell us something about how a car is treating its tyres - its a shame that Merc haven't been able to string together enough running to see if they still have their big tyre drop off problem.

The car may well have good and consistent pace, but all I'm seeing is the same old Mercedes from last year. First an overheating/wiring problem, then a brake failure. Do teams have testing rigs in the factory to fire these things up on and give a work out to, before bringing them to the track? I could be wrong, but these sound like basic flaws that are being shaken out just by the car running.

Mercedes were very sloppy last year, and have carried on exactly where they left off. My suspicion is the pace of the car will be about the same too - maybe 6th? - if Lewis thinks the downforce is down on last years McLaren, we assume McLaren and the teams around them have better downforce now, it could be a bigger gap than he's expecting.

exactly my thoughts. It is not like McLaren, RBR, Lotus and Ferrari slept for few months are and like OH NEW SEASON

#685 dau

dau
  • Member

  • 4,569 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 06 February 2013 - 17:19

I think he was to be honest, but we must remember that Nico said the car is a step forward so it probably has more downforce than the w03.

He said the same about the W02 ("I think it's just a better car in general.") and W03 ("You can definitely feel that this car is faster or more competitive."). Really not trying to be a buzzkill here, but i wouldn't read too much into that. Those are just PR comments.

I don't think we've seen enough yet to judge the 04's speed. Hope they'll have no more problems for the final two days.

#686 dans79

dans79
  • Member

  • 279 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 06 February 2013 - 17:27

Does anyone know if they have run the new front wing yet?

#687 KiloWatt

KiloWatt
  • Member

  • 1,183 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 06 February 2013 - 17:31

Does anyone know if they have run the new front wing yet?


Don't think so no.

#688 dans79

dans79
  • Member

  • 279 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 06 February 2013 - 17:36

Don't think so no.


Hopefully we can pick up some extra down force when they switch over then.


#689 BiH

BiH
  • Member

  • 2,311 posts
  • Joined: September 05

Posted 06 February 2013 - 17:57

Lewis being honest about it and Nico trying to hide the truth.


Wonder if Mercedes will be doing new parts for every race this time around.

That wait half season and then bring big update is clearly not working.

#690 george1981

george1981
  • Member

  • 724 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 06 February 2013 - 18:00

Im finding it hard to get my head around the issue being 'just a wiring issue' with flames like that coming out the back, and the longevity of inactivity in the pits. Im not one for conspiracies but it looked a lot worse than some dodgy wiring. As was said in a technical analysis of the car, they did go on the aggressive side when it came to the cooling of the car, maybe a bit too aggressive?


I agree it did look a bit much for a wiring loom fire, I was wondering if some oil or hydraulic fluid might be alight there?

#691 Masenco

Masenco
  • Member

  • 819 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 06 February 2013 - 18:00

Seems like we've got a solid base (once it's reliable).
Hopefully it'll be great on it's tires then it'll be a fun season :D

#692 SCUDmissile

SCUDmissile
  • Member

  • 3,912 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 06 February 2013 - 18:08

Lewis's quotes seem to be positive. He was quick right off the bat, so I don't think the car is quite as bad as everyone is making out.

#693 jrg19

jrg19
  • Member

  • 6,118 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 06 February 2013 - 18:11

It was probably wishful thinking but considering its not as quick as last years McLaren this year is going to be difficult to even achieve podiums.

#694 Jamiednm

Jamiednm
  • Member

  • 1,526 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 06 February 2013 - 18:13


Lewis is looking a bit soft, I think he could do with losing a few lbs.



#695 Tauhid

Tauhid
  • Member

  • 231 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 06 February 2013 - 18:17

At least Lewis is being more realistic, though he does often play down the car's true pace more than anyone else on the grid today. It doesn't seem like a bad car when its on the track, so thats a good start. Question is where is the reliability? And can they develop this further till the Summer to really challenge for the podiums when the races keep coming every week or so.

#696 aray

aray
  • Member

  • 2,599 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 06 February 2013 - 18:18

It was probably wishful thinking but considering its not as quick as last years McLaren this year is going to be difficult to even achieve podiums.

even if the car turns out to be mid-field level,Lewis will achieve some podiums surely.... :)

#697 meddo

meddo
  • Member

  • 1,500 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 06 February 2013 - 18:19

Lewis's quotes seem to be positive. He was quick right off the bat, so I don't think the car is quite as bad as everyone is making out.

If he could only shut his trap about pushing the engineers for more aero, or whatewer fancy term he is using that particular day. He really is ligtning quick down on the track, but painfuly slow in the head. 28 years old multimill kid with possibly few exams short of high school diploma is asking for some shiny new aero bits because he had them on his former shiny toy, from a bunch of engineers with possibly few of PHDs on their CVs.
He just needs to shut up and drive, that is why people adore him.

#698 ApexMouse

ApexMouse
  • Member

  • 909 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 06 February 2013 - 18:20

If they have a little more DF and have sorted their tyre wear out (far more critical IMO) they will be on a decent footing. Nico and Lewis can do the rest.

#699 jav

jav
  • Member

  • 197 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 06 February 2013 - 18:22

Lewis's quotes seem to be positive. He was quick right off the bat, so I don't think the car is quite as bad as everyone is making out.


At this stage- Lewis' quotes would be positive if the brake lines were held on by bailing wire or if the car disintegrated around him. If this team doesn't have the car sorted out by the third test (which they might) OR if the team doesn't bring updates that work on a similar pace to McLaren (which I predict they won't)- Lewis will hold his tongue longer than his body language... but not much longer.

Reading his statements with the understanding he needs to be politcally correct- it's safe to assume the car can turn a respectable lap but aero is lacking. Further- a new 5 element front wing, without additional rear downforce will likely cause balance problems. All this could spell at least- early tire woes, and quite possibly increased pressures on in season development, a perenial weak spot to begin with.

I've been pessimistic for a while and was braced to eat some crow. It looks even worse than I expected and I suspect Schumi (and now Brawn) saw this eventuality as cause not to commit early or long.

Edited by jav, 06 February 2013 - 20:59.


Advertisement

#700 bauss

bauss
  • Member

  • 4,976 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 06 February 2013 - 18:31

If he could only shut his trap about pushing the engineers for more aero, or whatewer fancy term he is using that particular day. He really is ligtning quick down on the track, but painfuly slow in the head. 28 years old multimill kid with possibly few exams short of high school diploma is asking for some shiny new aero bits because he had them on his former shiny toy, from a bunch of engineers with possibly few of PHDs on their CVs.
He just needs to shut up and drive, that is why people adore him.


this is a dim dim post to put it mildly...

So he should say "the car has less downforce than last years McLaren but that is ok, I know you are very smart and tried your best" right

gtfoh