Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 24 votes

Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
3997 replies to this topic

#851 PedroBR

PedroBR
  • Member

  • 207 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 18:17

I remember reading another article that said the DDRS had a secondary negative effect. Something along the lines of when the DDRS was deactivated it could take like 2 tenths of a second for the flow over the front wing to reattach. During that time the car was incredibly unbalanced as it had full rear downforce but almost none up-front, thus inducing severe understeer. The article suggested Nico & MS started breaking earlier as one means of combating this issue.


Indeed in the front flow takes a bit to attach/reattach.

When Nico & MS were breaking earlier, Vettel was carrying a lot of speed in turn-in with his flexi-wings...

Edited by PedroBR, 07 February 2013 - 18:17.


Advertisement

#852 BigCHrome

BigCHrome
  • Member

  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 19:11

https://pbs.twimg.co...Aiju-.jpg:large

Doesn't the nose here look a bit different?

#853 Markn93

Markn93
  • Member

  • 4,396 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 19:15

Quite possibly.

On another note, “I have no idea how fast we are,” he added. “But if I look now at what Ferrari’s done I’m not worried at all about their time.” even though we know this, simply calculating their best time minus the 15 laps worth of fuel they, as a minimum, had ( at 0.1s per lap of fuel), it's still nice to hear it from the driver.

#854 jrg19

jrg19
  • Member

  • 6,118 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 19:20

https://pbs.twimg.co...Aiju-.jpg:large

Doesn't the nose here look a bit different?


More like last years McLaren, with a concave.

#855 Markn93

Markn93
  • Member

  • 4,396 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 19:21

Any more/other pics?

#856 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 6,957 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 19:35

On another note, “I have no idea how fast we are,” he added. “But if I look now at what Ferrari’s done I’m not worried at all about their time.”


Is this quiet confidence I see before me?!


#857 BigCHrome

BigCHrome
  • Member

  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 19:37

Good to hear that they aren't fazed by the times, even if it's still very early.

#858 jrg19

jrg19
  • Member

  • 6,118 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 19:42

Any more/other pics?


Nothing that shows the nose looking that way, so it must be the light on the car.

#859 femi

femi
  • Member

  • 6,768 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 07 February 2013 - 19:45

Good to hear that they aren't fazed by the times, even if it's still very early.


I don't think they would say otherwise even if they were concerned. I find it a bit interesting that all drivers were talking up their car,.. Having said that, it was a good day for the team.

Edited by femi, 07 February 2013 - 19:49.


Advertisement

#860 BigCHrome

BigCHrome
  • Member

  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 19:49

I got the pic from Merc's twitter. Anyway, looks like things aren't that bad - hopefully we can get both cars in Q3 Australia and at least one car ahead of a McLaren, a Ferrari and a RBR.

Edited by BigCHrome, 07 February 2013 - 19:50.


#861 Markn93

Markn93
  • Member

  • 4,396 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:08

I got the pic from Merc's twitter. Anyway, looks like things aren't that bad - hopefully we can get both cars in Q3 Australia and at least one car ahead of a McLaren, a Ferrari and a RBR.


Hey you've changed your tune from a couple of days ago:

"Yuck, car looks a few generations behind the top cars on track. Getting to q3 in Australia would be an achievement."

"On the bright side, since the car is most likely extremely slow, they won't be competing for the WDC and can start focusing on 2014 much sooner than Red Bull and McLaren."


:)


ps, one more good day and they'll be on pole  ;)

#862 MirNyet

MirNyet
  • Member

  • 1,583 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:10

Did you say that if the FW works it means the REAR has more DF?

No, no, no way.



The front wing and the rear diffuser work in tandem - the 2009 McLaren is a very good example of this - at the start of the year, the design of the front wing was stalling the diffuser. The front wing must do two things, create downforce, and secondly channel the air in such a way as to work with the rest of the car. You can have a wing which creates downforce, but does a poor job of channeling the air for the rest of the car - i.e. the 2009 McLaren.

Also, remember, the rear diffuser works with the air going 'under' the car, not over or around. The front wing should provide a good quality consitent flow under the car - if it does not do this effectively, then the diffuser starves and the car looses rear downforce as most of the rear downforce comes from the diffuser...

#863 PedroBR

PedroBR
  • Member

  • 207 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:19

The front wing and the rear diffuser work in tandem - the 2009 McLaren is a very good example of this - at the start of the year, the design of the front wing was stalling the diffuser. The front wing must do two things, create downforce, and secondly channel the air in such a way as to work with the rest of the car. You can have a wing which creates downforce, but does a poor job of channeling the air for the rest of the car - i.e. the 2009 McLaren.

Also, remember, the rear diffuser works with the air going 'under' the car, not over or around. The front wing should provide a good quality consitent flow under the car - if it does not do this effectively, then the diffuser starves and the car looses rear downforce as most of the rear downforce comes from the diffuser...


MirNyet,

I know, I was just pointing out that assuming that the rear downforce is there just because they said the FW works is a bit optmistic imho.
From what I understood people were assuming that they(Merc) tested the front wing because they were happy with the overall rear downforce.

Edited by PedroBR, 07 February 2013 - 20:23.


#864 Lamag

Lamag
  • Member

  • 1,113 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:21

James Allen said about Mercedes today.

Rosberg’s time was set on the first lap of a 16 lap run in the Mercedes. He will have had 60 kilos of fuel on board at the time, which is 40 kilos more (equivalent to around 1.1 seconds of lap time) than Massa’s fastest timed lap.


http://www.jamesalle...heir-potential/

#865 Markn93

Markn93
  • Member

  • 4,396 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:29

How does he know the 60 or 40kg figure?

#866 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:33

How does he know the 60 or 40kg figure?

From stints length. Approximatively.


#867 jrg19

jrg19
  • Member

  • 6,118 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:35

Its a guess basically but hes suggesting Mercedes could be the quicker of the two cars.

#868 SR388

SR388
  • Member

  • 4,826 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:39

Its a guess basically but hes suggesting Mercedes could be the quicker of the two cars.


That makes me feel all warm and FUZZY!!!



I really hope this car is good and shuts up all of the doubters in the media, and all of the old F1 has-beens who have been dumping on Merc and Lewis.

#869 MirNyet

MirNyet
  • Member

  • 1,583 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:41

MirNyet,

I know, I was just pointing out that assuming that the rear downforce is there just because they said the FW works is a bit optmistic imho.
From what I understood people were assuming that they(Merc) tested the front wing because they were happy with the overall rear downforce.


Well, there are a lot of guesses and assumptions going on - Kg's here, Kg's there - basic fact is that you need downforce in one place before you bolt it on elsewhere otherwise you destory the balance of the car - so they would have needed at least some stablity at the rear of the car before they could upgrade the downforce at the front. Also, and this is probably more likely is that the new wing does not give any new frontal downforce, it may purely be for better flow to the rear - slot gaps would help with this..

#870 MortenF1

MortenF1
  • Member

  • 20,294 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:42

It's interesting guesswork, but we cannot know if the actual fuel level really was say 90 and 60kgs.

Edited by race addicted, 07 February 2013 - 20:42.


#871 SunnyENTP

SunnyENTP
  • Member

  • 717 posts
  • Joined: August 12

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:47

That makes me feel all warm and FUZZY!!!



I really hope this car is good and shuts up all of the doubters in the media, and all of the old F1 has-beens who have been dumping on Merc and Lewis.



I think the car is fast but so was w03 at the begingin of the season. The issue is development over season. In fairness WO3 did not have a good baseline and the team lost their aero cheif. I think things are more steady now. 2014 onwards might be better if they can poach Lowe.

#872 superdelphinus

superdelphinus
  • Member

  • 1,845 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:49

Seems a very good car to me. If you were coming into f1 completely unaware of anything that'd gone before you'd be forgiven for thinking that merc and Ferrari are the two fastest teams right now

#873 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:51

It's interesting guesswork, but we cannot know if the actual fuel level really was say 90 and 60kgs.

He is talking about some minimum amount of fuel to do this stints. He probably have idea of how much fuel they burn for a lap. They could have more fuel, but not less.

#874 Rybo

Rybo
  • Member

  • 366 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:57

It is guesswork, done just for ad clicks. But he does have some technical knowledge and connections within the paddock that will give him insight.

#875 Markn93

Markn93
  • Member

  • 4,396 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:57

Hope this is ok (from autosport+), quote from Scarbs on new wing, "This new wing brings Mercedes onto a par with its rivals in front wing design."

#876 BernieEc

BernieEc
  • Member

  • 2,131 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 21:04

Its a guess basically but hes suggesting Mercedes could be the quicker of the two cars.


I also think Massa did his lap time on softs whilst Rosberg was on mediums. correct me if am wrong

Edited by BernieEc, 07 February 2013 - 21:11.


#877 Masenco

Masenco
  • Member

  • 819 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 21:08

The fact that nico is up for mentioning massa's laptime suggests to me that he feels the car is competitive at the front end.


#878 SR388

SR388
  • Member

  • 4,826 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 21:10

I also think Massa did his lap time on sifts whilst Rosberg was on mediums. correct me if am wrong



Be still thy heart!!!!





But in all honesty guys, let's calm down(mainly talking to myself). It's just testing.


:kiss:






#879 Masenco

Masenco
  • Member

  • 819 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 21:13

Be still thy heart!!!!





But in all honesty guys, let's calm down(mainly talking to myself). It's just testing.


:kiss:


Hahaa :clap:

Advertisement

#880 BernieEc

BernieEc
  • Member

  • 2,131 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 21:13

Be still thy heart!!!!





But in all honesty guys, let's calm down(mainly talking to myself). It's just testing.


:kiss:


I know.......I had written 2013 off and was just waiting for 2014. If 2013 brings any welcome surprise, am sorry I will find it hard to contain myself. only thing is am rooting for both McL and Merc.

#881 SR388

SR388
  • Member

  • 4,826 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 21:17

I know.......I had written 2013 off and was just waiting for 2014. If 2013 brings any welcome surprise, am sorry I will find it hard to contain myself. only thing is am rooting for both McL and Merc.



Oh, I can't pull for both. Lewis was the reason I was a McLaren fan. Where he goes, I go!

Oddly enough, I was a BAR honda fan before I was a lewis fan!

Edited by SR388, 07 February 2013 - 21:17.


#882 bauss

bauss
  • Member

  • 5,067 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 21:24

lol Lew fans have brought the swingometer here...

let's see what LH says tmrw... but my gut feeling is telling me for sure the gap has been closed n their degradation problems will be better....

how much is the question.
the other question is how much better can they be at development this season... perhaps the more important one. We've seen how important in season development is.

The number of laps today is another decent positive.

What is weird is how Rosberg is complaining of understeer with the new front wing, but cant remember him doing that b4.

Wonder if this FW helps rearend downforce more than frontend hence the understeer.

#883 dans79

dans79
  • Member

  • 279 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 07 February 2013 - 21:32

What is weird is how Rosberg is complaining of understeer with the new front wing, but cant remember him doing that b4.

Wonder if this FW helps rearend downforce more than frontend hence the understeer.


maybe, if they have understeer that means the car has to much downforce in the back or not enough in the front depending on how you want to look at it.


#884 BernieEc

BernieEc
  • Member

  • 2,131 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 21:35

better understeer than oversteer. Front end downforce is easier to achieve than rear end downforce. Will take that understeer issue over oversteer anyway

#885 BernieEc

BernieEc
  • Member

  • 2,131 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 21:36

Oh, I can't pull for both. Lewis was the reason I was a McLaren fan. Where he goes, I go!

Oddly enough, I was a BAR honda fan before I was a lewis fan!


I like Macca as a team and have always supported them ( don't like button though). Like Merc cos of LH but not really as a team hence my conundrum

#886 windtravels

windtravels
  • Member

  • 901 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 21:47

A fellow Mclaren / Merc split loyalties fan here. Isn't it complex...

I am certainly glad the early signs for the W04 are looking positive.

#887 pit5bul

pit5bul
  • Member

  • 667 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 07 February 2013 - 21:52

Same here... Long time Williams fan.. Supported McLaren because of Hamilton... Now a Mercedes fan.. But I'm still rooting for Williams... I would love to see Lewis drive for a competitive Williams in the future... Preferably while Frank Williams is still alive and gets to enjoy it !

#888 Lamag

Lamag
  • Member

  • 1,113 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:01

I also think Massa did his lap time on softs whilst Rosberg was on mediums. correct me if am wrong



Pirelli
@Pirelli_Media
Fastest time on soft today = Massa (1.17.879), fastest time on medium = Rosberg (1.18.766), fastest time on Hard = Raikkonen (1.19.200).

https://twitter.com/...589771620134912

#889 bauss

bauss
  • Member

  • 5,067 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:01

better understeer than oversteer. Front end downforce is easier to achieve than rear end downforce. Will take that understeer issue over oversteer anyway


True that.

Admired Mac and the house Ron built but only really started supporting them cos of LH. MW, how poorly they executed last year and a few other things made the Mac love sour last year... so with LH gone I'm neutral to them now.
Still an LH fan so probably Merc fan now, except they overly annoy me too.

#890 OO7

OO7
  • Member

  • 12,046 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:03

It's interesting guesswork, but we cannot know if the actual fuel level really was say 90 and 60kgs.

Correct. That's why it's best to not pay too much attention to these times.

#891 Jamiednm

Jamiednm
  • Member

  • 2,164 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:04


Lewis fan here but I have very low expectations of Merc at least for this season. I'll be supporting McLaren first and foremost, but hope Merc produce a good enough car for Lewis to fight for podiums.

#892 Mc_Silver

Mc_Silver
  • Member

  • 2,399 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:05

http://www.youtube.c...c...D1g&index=5
http://www.youtube.c...A...D1g&index=6
http://www.youtube.c...A...D1g&index=7

#893 Trust

Trust
  • Member

  • 3,261 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:05

Pirelli
@Pirelli_Media
Fastest time on soft today = Massa (1.17.879), fastest time on medium = Rosberg (1.18.766), fastest time on Hard = Raikkonen (1.19.200).

https://twitter.com/...589771620134912

How much is the difference between Hard and Soft?

#894 OO7

OO7
  • Member

  • 12,046 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:07

What is weird is how Rosberg is complaining of understeer with the new front wing, but cant remember him doing that b4.

Wonder if this FW helps rearend downforce more than frontend hence the understeer.

My understanding is that everyone has been complaining about understeer and it is more of a tyre/track surface characteristic.

#895 Rikhart

Rikhart
  • Member

  • 595 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:09

It´s around half a second difference for each compound level.

#896 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 6,957 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:11

My understanding is that everyone has been complaining about understeer and it is more of a tyre/track surface characteristic.


You are correct sir! Even Webber was complaining about understeer in the almighty RB9, so it seems we are in good company.....


#897 BigCHrome

BigCHrome
  • Member

  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:16

What is weird is how Rosberg is complaining of understeer with the new front wing, but cant remember him doing that b4.

Wonder if this FW helps rearend downforce more than frontend hence the understeer.


Everyone is complaining of understeer. Could be a feature of the new tires.

I agree that it's most likely that the new FW guides air better to the rear of the car rather than "DERP DERP FRONT DOWNFORCE MAKES THE CAR UNBALANCED. "

Hey you've changed your tune from a couple of days ago:

"Yuck, car looks a few generations behind the top cars on track. Getting to q3 in Australia would be an achievement."

"On the bright side, since the car is most likely extremely slow, they won't be competing for the WDC and can start focusing on 2014 much sooner than Red Bull and McLaren."
:)
ps, one more good day and they'll be on pole ;)


Yeah, you caught me. I'm still unsure about the car, but I have some hopes that the year won't be totally wasted.

Edited by BigCHrome, 07 February 2013 - 22:22.


#898 BernieEc

BernieEc
  • Member

  • 2,131 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:24

How much is the difference between Hard and Soft?


I think its Hard > 0.5 Medium > 0.5 Soft
that will suggest about a 1 sec difference but don't quote me on that

#899 Markn93

Markn93
  • Member

  • 4,396 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:30

Yeah, you caught me. I'm still unsure about the car, but I have some hopes that the year won't be totally wasted.


It's all good, and just look at what Fred did last year. With top guys as long as the car is driveable the year won't be totally wasted. Personally can't wait to see how Lewis performs and what he can/will achieve.

Edited by Markn93, 07 February 2013 - 22:32.


Advertisement

#900 superdelphinus

superdelphinus
  • Member

  • 1,845 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 07 February 2013 - 23:36

Seriously I think the merc looks really really good. It's like no one wants to believe it :/