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Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04


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#901 BernieEc

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:24

How much is the difference between Hard and Soft?


I think its Hard > 0.5 Medium > 0.5 Soft
that will suggest about a 1 sec difference but don't quote me on that

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#902 Markn93

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:30

Yeah, you caught me. I'm still unsure about the car, but I have some hopes that the year won't be totally wasted.


It's all good, and just look at what Fred did last year. With top guys as long as the car is driveable the year won't be totally wasted. Personally can't wait to see how Lewis performs and what he can/will achieve.

Edited by Markn93, 07 February 2013 - 22:32.


#903 superdelphinus

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 23:36

Seriously I think the merc looks really really good. It's like no one wants to believe it :/

#904 teejay

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 00:06

I like Macca as a team and have always supported them ( don't like button though). Like Merc cos of LH but not really as a team hence my conundrum


I am exactly the same.

McLaren fan long term

Have been on the Lewis bandwagon since turkey gp2, dont really like Jenson and Perez I feel nothing for.

Really happy with lots and lots of laps today.



#905 bennyo

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 00:22

I am exactly the same.

McLaren fan long term

Have been on the Lewis bandwagon since turkey gp2, dont really like Jenson and Perez I feel nothing for.

Really happy with lots and lots of laps today.


Long term Mercedes (not just motorsport) fan here, my first F1 team was Williams though until Sauber came along, then my loyalties went with Merc to McLaren.

Became a McLaren, and later, a LH fan in the process - and after the 'split', my interest stayed mainly with McLaren and Lewis, although I kept an eye on Merc.

Keen to see how they stack up this year and how competitive the W04 will be.

Edited by bennyo, 08 February 2013 - 12:34.


#906 Grundle

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 00:47

Nico Rosberg, 'i don't know what Ferrari are doing, but their time doesn't scare me at all' (f1 fanatic)

#907 moorsey

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:13

I am exactly the same.

McLaren fan long term

Have been on the Lewis bandwagon since turkey gp2, dont really like Jenson and Perez I feel nothing for.

Really happy with lots and lots of laps today.


Likewise here.
The McLaren screw ups completely destroyed my support for them so I now follow Lewis to see what he can achieve wherever that may be.

More on topic is that I believe that this Merc has some very good potential [if they can unlock it throughout the season] and my reasons so far are:-
1. Massa's lap was on soft tyres plus a probable lower fuel run with the Ferrari whereas Rosberg's was on hards with the car fuelled for a longer run.
2. Button's earlier fast lap now appears to have been achieved by cutting the chicane so has absolutely no bearing on anything at all.

I don't think we can look too hard into tyre deg at Jerez as the surface is so bad that Pirelli are questioning whether the circuit should be used next year.

#908 Lazy

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:18

Yes. GA is saying the opposite, that is what is weird. Basically what he is saying that they should have put more wing on the front to gain downforce at the rear?

"That equates to about 60kg of lost downforce at the back, because it's a 40:60 ratio, and so that's 100kg of downforce they don't have that they could. That's worth 0.8secs a lap."

That is pure BS. One of his best brainfades, really.

No, he is saying that if you take df off the front you have to take df off the back to balance the car. Logical really.

#909 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:21

Can we please stop discussing McLaren and each other? Please keep to the topic Merc W04

#910 seahawk

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:26

Considering the tires and the fuel loads, the W04 seems to be ahead of the Ferari by quite a margin. (0,5 sec for tires 1 sec for fuel)

#911 Obi Offiah

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:28

Considering the tires and the fuel loads, the W04 seems to be ahead of the Ferari by quite a margin. (0,5 sec for tires 1 sec for fuel)

We don't know what the fuel loads were, Ted really was just speculating.

#912 Szoelloe

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:33

Considering the tires and the fuel loads, the W04 seems to be ahead of the Ferari by quite a margin. (0,5 sec for tires 1 sec for fuel)



I would def not go as far as that.

#913 Markn93

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:10

http://www.f1fanatic...-jere-2013-2-3/

Appears to be new material on floor around where you would expect exhaust plume is blowing. Heat protection? Or to help guide the flow better?

#914 argiriano

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:21

http://www.f1fanatic...-jere-2013-2-3/

Appears to be new material on floor around where you would expect exhaust plume is blowing. Heat protection? Or to help guide the flow better?

Actually the whole rear bodywork of the car is new - with slightly different profile and tighter at the coke bottle, exhaust outlets without burning scars and with second opening behind the airbox intake.

#915 Timstr11

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:43

Actually the whole rear bodywork of the car is new - with slightly different profile and tighter at the coke bottle, exhaust outlets without burning scars and with second opening behind the airbox intake.

They're testing the DRD:
http://www.f1fanatic...-jere-20133.jpg

You'll see a tube towards the underside of the rear wing.

#916 braderzf50

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:46

Actually the whole rear bodywork of the car is new - with slightly different profile and tighter at the coke bottle, exhaust outlets without burning scars and with second opening behind the airbox intake.



Well if thats the case, then thats brilliant news! :up:

#917 bonjon1979a

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:48

Actually the whole rear bodywork of the car is new - with slightly different profile and tighter at the coke bottle, exhaust outlets without burning scars and with second opening behind the airbox intake.


Looks tighter.

#918 jrg19

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:58

They're testing the DRD:
http://www.f1fanatic...-jere-20133.jpg

You'll see a tube towards the underside of the rear wing.


Looks like they're testing something, need more angles. :up:

#919 Markn93

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:09

Comparison of much tighter bodywork:

http://www.f1fanatic...-jere-20133.jpg New

http://www.f1fanatic...erc-w04-2013-6/ Old


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#920 cooper

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:10

They're testing the DRD:
http://www.f1fanatic...-jere-20133.jpg

You'll see a tube towards the underside of the rear wing.


More angles..

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image


Edited by cooper, 08 February 2013 - 10:15.


#921 jrg19

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:12

Looks good, first team to start testing with it in 2013.

#922 jrg19

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:22

Posted Image

Roll hoop with cooling opening.

#923 Timstr11

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:24

Roll hoop with cooling opening.

It's not for cooling but the air inlet for the fluidic switch (passive DRD).

#924 Guizotia

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:25

It's not for cooling but the air inlet for the fluidic switch (passive DRD).


Can someone remind me how this works and what it does... when does it turn on?

#925 slmk

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:28

Why does Mercedes focus on this when it didn't give them anything tangible in 2012 and probably created more problems than it solved?!

The car needs aero, not straight-line speed.

#926 TF110

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:28

Nice, passive DRS. Other teams want it so its a gain.

Edited by TF110, 08 February 2013 - 10:29.


#927 maverick69

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:32

Why does Mercedes focus on this when it didn't give them anything tangible in 2012 and probably created more problems than it solved?!

The car needs aero, not straight-line speed.


That was "Double DRS" where the front wing was vented - which meant that they were very limited on what they could do with the architecture and flexing characteristics of said wing in comparison to the other teams.

What they are testing there, for all intents and purposes, is a passive F-duct for the rear wing only. No team ran one in a race last year.

Edited by maverick69, 08 February 2013 - 10:33.


#928 jrg19

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:34

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

PDRS

#929 Markn93

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:35

The whole rear end just looks much cleaner.

Edit: Jrg19 great pictures man :up:

Edited by Markn93, 08 February 2013 - 10:35.


#930 jrg19

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:37

Looks like the centre of the floor dips down too.

#931 Szoelloe

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:38

^^Not only. They have lifted the gearbox? How much space is there under it? First time I see it from this angle.

#932 Shiroo

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:40

it looks like last season Lotus solution. Mercedes had a bit different. Wondering if it will work

#933 jrg19

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:40

I think i noticed on the first day, but with the extra body work in that area it was harder to see.

The car is certainly looking more impressive.

#934 slmk

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:40

That was "Double DRS" where the front wing was vented - which meant that they were very limited on what they could do with the architecture and flexing characteristics of said wing in comparison to the other teams.

What they are testing there, for all intents and purposes, is a passive F-duct for the rear wing only. No team ran one in a race last year.


Thanks for the confirmation.

What about the rear of the car? What changed versus the first 3 days?

#935 Markn93

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:41

From last pic, looks like a new third, smaller air deflector on top of the sidepod, clear like Torro Rosso's.

#936 BernieEc

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:14

Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1
More Gary Anderson: "Mercedes has understeer on entry than rear snappy, Lotus looks well balance.

What does he mean by rear snappy???


#937 maverick69

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:15

Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1
More Gary Anderson: "Mercedes has understeer on entry than rear snappy, Lotus looks well balance.

What does he mean by rear snappy???


I guess he means oversteer on exit

#938 rhukkas

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:17

Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1
More Gary Anderson: "Mercedes has understeer on entry than rear snappy, Lotus looks well balance.

What does he mean by rear snappy???


Basically the rear steps out. Under steer to oversteer is a symptom of severe balance issues.

#939 Markn93

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:19

Basically the rear steps out. Under steer to oversteer is a symptom of severe balance issues.


Which is the complete opposite of what the drivers were saying, I'm inclined to believe they weren't both lying, so am pretty much disregarding this.

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#940 kedia990

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:22

Basically the rear steps out. Under steer to oversteer is a symptom of severe balance issues.


Nico didnt complain about anything this sort, any chance this is introduced courtesy of PDRS?

#941 rhukkas

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:30

Nico didnt complain about anything this sort, any chance this is introduced courtesy of PDRS?


Nico did complain about understeer. It's perfectly plausible Hamilton is lamping on the throttle to cure the oversteer (as oppose to a more wait-and-see approach from Nico), that could explain gary anderson's analysis.

these are very basic explanations of what could be happening here. But such clear visual handling issues are symptomatic of under-performing cars nowadays.

#942 bonjon1979a

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:41

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

PDRS


Looks a lot tighter around the rear. I wonder if they'll open up a tunnel beneath the gearbox. They must've raised the centre of gravity quite a bit to make that room there.

#943 femi

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:51

I guess he means oversteer on exit


I believe he means the car is understeery rather than oversteery which is exactly what Nico said. Nothing new...

#944 BernieEc

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:54

I believe he means the car is understeery rather than oversteery which is exactly what Nico said. Nothing new...


That's exactly what i was thinking!!!

#945 SR388

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:01

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

PDRS



Can anyone take the old ms paint to these pictures? I would like to get confirmation of what parts make up the pds system.

#946 BoschKurve

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:56

Nico did complain about understeer. It's perfectly plausible Hamilton is lamping on the throttle to cure the oversteer (as oppose to a more wait-and-see approach from Nico), that could explain gary anderson's analysis.

these are very basic explanations of what could be happening here. But such clear visual handling issues are symptomatic of under-performing cars nowadays.


I think Lewis would be able to at least compensate for an understeering car under race conditions.

But I wonder if this is something they will have to rework or attempt to rework for the next test.

I wish Melbourne were here because I really want to see what this car does in a race since I have a lot of doubts regarding the changes made since the offseason began.

#947 Markn93

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 13:08

Sounding very positive, think the car has rather surprised him. Great to hear :up:

http://www.f1fanatic...-red-bull-pace/

#948 windtravels

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 13:16

Sounding very positive, think the car has rather surprised him. Great to hear :up:

http://www.f1fanatic...-red-bull-pace/


great stuff :up:

#949 Timstr11

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 13:24

Can someone remind me how this works and what it does... when does it turn on?

At a certain air speed (pressure) the airflow will switch from the large outlet above the beam wing to the narrow outlet pointing to the underside of the wing. This will effectively stall the rear wing, which means less drag and a higher top speed. The tricky bit is to get it to work reliably, i.e. switching at the right (high) speed and not when the rear wing's full downforce is needed (e.g. during slow/medium speed cornering or maybe even under braking).


#950 Masenco

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 13:27

He (Lewis) said Mercedes are “at the level we hoped we’re at” with the W04. “I couldn’t really ask for more.”
:up: