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Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04


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#1401 jrg19

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 15:15

1m23.046s from Vettel was on hard tires and at least six laps of fuel.


How much would you say a lap of fuel cost in time? 1 tenth/2 tenths?

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#1402 Lamag

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 15:35

According to James Allen on his website.

Fuel effect (cost in lap time per 10kg of fuel carried): 0.40 seconds

http://www.jamesalle...h-at-barcelona/

#1403 jrg19

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 15:44

W04 tops the times.

Tyres anyone?

#1404 Xeriks

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 15:45

W04 tops the times.

Tyres anyone?

Medium tyres

#1405 teejay

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 15:57

Testing means nothing but I have a small smile going on here.

#1406 Markn93

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 15:59

Testing means nothing but I have a small smile going on here.

Agreed, and it certainly beats a large frown :)

#1407 moorsey

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 16:05

Testing means nothing but I have a small smile going on here.


Me too but I shall try to keep it in check. :up:

#1408 jrg19

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 16:07

It's better than a kick in the nuts.

#1409 cooper

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 16:15

It's better than a kick in the nuts.

Far better than a kick in the nuts.. Could barely believe it when I got back from my meeting to see them at the top. Of course you take it with a pinch of salt with it being testing, but it would bring me so much joy to have Merc up there with the top runners come Australia.

Come on W04 :up:

#1410 senna da silva

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 16:17

Seems like it turned into a productive day after all and the improvements show they have some pace. Looking forward to Lewis in the car tomorrow.

#1411 dhill39

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 16:24

Hoping the team can keep this going,putting more miles on the car and Lewis topping the times,only testing I know,but it will be good to see.

#1412 dans79

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 16:24

I can't wait to see a bunch of close up shots, the exhaust bulge looks longer. The overhang between the budge and gear box also looks deeper.

#1413 bauss

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 16:28

I've had a sense, on one lap this car is no dog... the remaining question mark for me though is tire deg.

Sure, it seems to be an issue across the board, but so far, the stints seem to suggest we use up just a bit more than the top guys.

Edited by bauss, 19 February 2013 - 16:31.


#1414 Xeriks

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 16:29

I know it's testing, but at least there is some pace in the car, and it's hard not to be a little optimistic about the upcoming season if you're a Mercedes fan.

My only slight concern at the moment is the high tyre deg, but other teams also had the same problem, I hope it improves over the next 3 days.

#1415 SR388

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 16:31

I know it's testing, but at least there is some pace in the car, and it's hard not to be a little optimistic about the upcoming season if you're a Mercedes fan.

My only slight concern at the moment is the high tyre deg, but other teams also had the same problem, I hope it improves over the next 3 days.


Tire deg will make or break our season!

#1416 maverick69

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 16:46

I can't wait to see a bunch of close up shots, the exhaust bulge looks longer. The overhang between the budge and gear box also looks deeper.


I think what they're trying to do there is a "Newey Tunnel" without enclosing said tunnel. This is also what gives the impression of a rather large arse....... when in fact it is rather compact at the floor and gearbox area.

The car also looks very much like the unfinished article..... Yogurt pots and sticky tape if you know what I mean.

The main thing for me is that the car doesn't seem to be lunching its tyres anymore than the other front runners....... Aldo always was good on that front..........

#1417 dans79

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 16:56

I think what they're trying to do there is a "Newey Tunnel" without enclosing said tunnel. This is also what gives the impression of a rather large arse....... when in fact it is rather compact at the floor and gearbox area.


That's a good point. Isn't there a tunnel size restriction if it's completely enclosed?


#1418 cartaker182

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:02

I think last year's car was looking quick at this stage, Hmmmm?


#1419 superdelphinus

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:02

They'll all be chewing their tyres at this stage - it's who gets better at preserving them quickest that matters

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#1420 onewingedangel

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:03

The Red Bull tunnel is to sepearate the coke bottle flow from the exhaust flowing down the ramp towards the diffuser - the W04 solution doesn't feature a ramp - so what would partially enshrouding the coke bottle flow achieve?

#1421 MaxisOne

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:05

I know it's testing, but at least there is some pace in the car, and it's hard not to be a little optimistic about the upcoming season if you're a Mercedes fan.

My only slight concern at the moment is the high tyre deg, but other teams also had the same problem, I hope it improves over the next 3 days.


Welcome to last year..

We were pretty much just as fast on one lap pace...

We got murdered on the stints with tyre deg.

Having 1 lap pace is nice for quali but its frankly useless when your going to get passed after 3 to five laps. Clear air mitigates this somewhat but i'm not going to go into some false hope because the car has 1 lap pace.

Just putting the realism out there for the people who started to support us this year. We had decent 1 lap pace last year as well... and fell off the deep end when the race stints actually started.

When the stint times look competitive and consistent is when we really should be encouraged.

Not trying to put the kibosh on the enthusiasm.. Just pointing out what we need to look for in terms of tangible improvement.

#1422 maverick69

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:06

That's a good point. Isn't there a tunnel size restriction if it's completely enclosed?


As long as you are not scavenging airflow from the underfloor (DDDs), and you cannot see bodywork looking up from the floor, then you can pretty much fill your boots.


#1423 cartaker182

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:09

Welcome to last year..

We were pretty much just as fast on one lap pace...

We got murdered on the stints with tyre deg.

Having 1 lap pace is nice for quali but its frankly useless when your going to get passed after 3 to five laps. Clear air mitigates this somewhat but i'm not going to go into some false hope because the car has 1 lap pace.

Just putting the realism out there for the people who started to support us this year. We had decent 1 lap pace last year as well... and fell off the deep end when the race stints actually started.

When the stint times look competitive and consistent is when we really should be encouraged.

Not trying to put the kibosh on the enthusiasm.. Just pointing out what we need to look for in terms of tangible improvement.

This.

#1424 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:10

The team has a history of under-performing throughout as season (bar 2004 and 2009) as well as lacking the ability to develop at the same rate as the other leaders. I hope they do well, but this is still BAR/HONDA in terms of DNA.

#1425 dans79

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:12

As long as you are not scavenging airflow from the underfloor (DDDs), and you cannot see bodywork looking up from the floor, then you can pretty much fill your boots.


I found it actually, 50mm height restriction, and a 75mm radius restriction

http://scarbsf1.com/...n-starter-hole/

I bet by keeping it open, then can maximize flow to the starter hole.




#1426 maverick69

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:13

The Red Bull tunnel is to sepearate the coke bottle flow from the exhaust flowing down the ramp towards the diffuser - the W04 solution doesn't feature a ramp - so what would partially enshrouding the coke bottle flow achieve?


You are getting compressed flow to feed the top central section of the diffuser (or starter-motor hole) - whilst leaving the exhaust plume to its own devices...... if you know what I mean. I guess it makes it less draggy, and less sensitive to throttle changes.



#1427 amppatel

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:14

The team has a history of under-performing throughout as season (bar 2004 and 2009) as well as lacking the ability to develop at the same rate as the other leaders. I hope they do well, but this is still BAR/HONDA in terms of DNA.


There is some new DNA in the form of Hamilton - he will whinge and bitch until they are up to scratch - and maybe Lauda will support him.

#1428 maverick69

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:15

I found it actually, 50mm height restriction, and a 75mm radius restriction

http://scarbsf1.com/...n-starter-hole/

I bet by keeping it open, then can maximize flow to the starter hole.


:up:


#1429 kedia990

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:19

"It's a much, much better base. You can feel its centre of gravity is lower. The aero is better. The platform is better.

"It feels a lot stronger. It's a pleasure to drive because it's a lot faster than last year."

From Rosberg's comments to Autosport. He's being very specific in mentioning the improvements, and overall as well. Encouraging. Hopefully not too much degradation over long stints.
And FF$, sort out the reliability.

#1430 HopkinsonF1

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:22

I think last year's car was looking quick at this stage, Hmmmm?

Not really.

2012 Barcelona day one testing times:

1 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull 1:23.265

2 Nico Hulkenberg Force India-Mercedes 1:23.440

3 Lewis Hamilton McLaren 1:23.590

4 Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso 1:23.618

5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1:24.100

6 Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1:24.150

7 Sergio Perez Sauber 1:24.219

8 Bruno Senna Williams 1:25.755

9 Romain Grosjean Lotus 1:26.809

10 Heikki Kovalainen Caterham 1:27.537

11 Charles Pic Marussia 1:29.248

#1431 KiloWatt

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:22

There is some new DNA in the form of Hamilton - he will whinge and bitch until they are up to scratch - and maybe Lauda will support him.


I'm struggling with how people reason. The team fired half their workforce in 2009, including some big names in aero (Zander et al), actually hired some very senior personnel to replace them recently and then went on a headhunting/hiring campaign that the conquistadores would be proud of last year (and reportedly poached a ton of middle rank and junior engineers from some top teams) and yet people still think it's the same old BAR team.

Frankly, I'd be surprised if 30% of the original BAR/Honda outfit still remain. And that's a conservative guestimate (admittedly) on my part.

Edited by KiloWatt, 19 February 2013 - 17:23.


#1432 bauss

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:22

I hope Rosberg's comments mean the tire deg is atleast also much improved from last year

I don't buy the Bar/Honda DNA argument though...Red Bull has Jaguar DNA too don't they? how is that working out for them..?

Edited by bauss, 19 February 2013 - 17:24.


#1433 BernieEc

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:26

Not really.

2012 Barcelona day one testing times:

1 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull 1:23.265

2 Nico Hulkenberg Force India-Mercedes 1:23.440

3 Lewis Hamilton McLaren 1:23.590

4 Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso 1:23.618

5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1:24.100

6 Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1:24.150

7 Sergio Perez Sauber 1:24.219

8 Bruno Senna Williams 1:25.755

9 Romain Grosjean Lotus 1:26.809

10 Heikki Kovalainen Caterham 1:27.537

11 Charles Pic Marussia 1:29.248



and of course these times were all set with use of DRS is any section on the track

#1434 MaxisOne

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:26

I hope Rosberg's comments mean the tire deg is atleast also much improved from last year


I really hope so as well .. Tired of having a decent qualy and then watching the ones who qualy in the mid pack roar past us like nothing after 5 to 10 laps of the first race stint.

They also fell off badly on pit stop times as well... they need to brush up on that. In 2010 they were right up there. The last two years were a bit meh.

#1435 amppatel

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:27

I'm struggling with how people reason. The team fired half their workforce in 2009, including some big names in aero (Zander et al), actually hired some very senior personnel to replace them recently and then went on a headhunting/hiring campaign that the conquistadores would be proud of last year (and reportedly poached a ton of middle rank and junior engineers from some top teams) and yet people still think it's the same old BAR team.

Frankly, I'd be surprised if 30% of the original BAR/Honda outfit still remain. And that's a conservative guestimate (admittedly) on my part.



I hope Rosberg's comments mean the tire deg is atleast also much improved from last year

I don't buy the Bar/Honda DNA argument though...Red Bull has Jaguar DNA too don't they? how is that working out for them..?



Yea I'm agreeing with you! But maybe the largest change is actually hiring a top 3 driver? That will motivate the team but also Nico.

#1436 HopkinsonF1

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:28

I hope Rosberg's comments mean the tire deg is atleast also much improved from last year

I don't buy the Bar/Honda DNA argument though...Red Bull has Jaguar DNA too don't they? how is that working out for them..?

And Ferrari has 80s Ferrari DNA. Didn't stop them winning five titles on the trot.

#1437 Szoelloe

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:33

While I fully understand being paranoid about tire-wear in the case of Merc, there is no clue whatsoever that they eat the tyres. Everybody had problems with the tires today. It is not a car-specific problem. So I wouldn't start to ring the alarms yet.

#1438 maverick69

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:33

I don't buy the Bar/Honda DNA argument though...Red Bull has Jaguar DNA too don't they? how is that working out for them..?


It's Tyrrell and Stewart respectively* :p













*Yes. That's why I have no friends.


#1439 Szoelloe

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:36

Yea I'm agreeing with you! But maybe the largest change is actually hiring a top 3 driver? That will motivate the team but also Nico.


The largest change is in the car, and in the fact that they have to show something positive this season. LH is only a factor in that.


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#1440 undersquare

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:49

The largest change is in the car, and in the fact that they have to show something positive this season. LH is only a factor in that.

Yeah they need the whole package don't they. Lewis couldn't have done a lot with last year's car and IMO last year's drivers wouldn't have done too much with a decent car. It's circular. The team knows now whatever they produce will be absolutely maxxed race after race with very few driving errors. If they haven't done enough pitstop practices the world feed will have Lewis saying "what happened there guys?"

The team will also know suddenly theirs is the top car thread on here lol. It's the big time. I think the whole thing will give them a boost.

#1441 Seanspeed

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:51

The team will also know suddenly theirs is the top car thread on here lol. It's the big time. I think the whole thing will give them a boost.

I dare say it should add a few extra tenths to the car.

#1442 BernieEc

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:54

I dare say it should add a few extra tenths to the car.


and the extra 6 tenths LH will bring to the table :)

#1443 Obi Offiah

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:57

Yeah they need the whole package don't they. Lewis couldn't have done a lot with last year's car and IMO last year's drivers wouldn't have done too much with a decent car.

I think your selling Nico & Michael very short there.

#1444 undersquare

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:58

I dare say it should add a few extra tenths to the car.

Yay well there we are already, with Sean's sour face in the Merc 2013 thread :D

#1445 undersquare

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:10

I think your selling Nico & Michael very short there.

I know what you mean but I don't agree. I know MS was incredibly unlucky but he was making too many errors as well. Nico isn't up there with SV/FA and that does make a difference, because the team was basically racing for 4th unless they could produce a positive car advantage against RB. Ferrari and Mac. No chance. They were in the second rank of teams for the season.

So I think the whole mindset will be more positive now. If they're within a tenth on car performance they can win. Tiny differences will matter more. For just one little thing Ross mentioned Lewis and stickers - I bet Lewis was saying "Stickers? With edges? Grammes? Are you frickin kidding?" :lol:

#1446 DutchCruijff

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:23

I know what you mean but I don't agree. I know MS was incredibly unlucky but he was making too many errors as well. Nico isn't up there with SV/FA and that does make a difference, because the team was basically racing for 4th unless they could produce a positive car advantage against RB. Ferrari and Mac. No chance. They were in the second rank of teams for the season.

So I think the whole mindset will be more positive now. If they're within a tenth on car performance they can win. Tiny differences will matter more. For just one little thing Ross mentioned Lewis and stickers - I bet Lewis was saying "Stickers? With edges? Grammes? Are you frickin kidding?" :lol:

Are you for real? The car was pure dogsh*t, LH would have cracked like a madman had he had to deal with the same issues as Schumacher last season.

#1447 Seanspeed

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:25

Yay well there we are already, with Sean's sour face in the Merc 2013 thread :D

Sour? Oh come on now, I'm just trying to increase the post count to better lift the team's spirits! We all know how much they rely on bulletin board post counts.

#1448 slmk

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:27

The car seems like it's got pace, but degradation is worrisome.

#1449 BernieEc

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:34

Sour? Oh come on now, I'm just trying to increase the post count to better lift the team's spirits! We all know how much they rely on bulletin board post counts.


oh no you didn't Sean. You just equated the Merc thread to a tabloid magazine with an adolescent/ Juvenile/ teenager type followership!!

Edited by BernieEc, 19 February 2013 - 18:35.


#1450 jrg19

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:36

http://www.formule1....61280121.56.jpg

More green paint?