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Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04


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#1451 Seanspeed

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:37

oh no you didn't Sean. You just equated the Merc thread to a tabloid magazine with an adolescent/ Juvenile/ teenager type followership!!

I would never!

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#1452 maverick69

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:44

The car seems like it's got pace, but degradation is worrisome.


Is it?

Seems like everyone is lunching their tyres at the mo. I cannot see a particular "spike" with Merc.

#1453 Nigol

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:49

http://www.formule1....61280121.56.jpg

More green paint?


Reflection I think.

#1454 jrg19

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:50

On the nose?

Also is the nose wider/the camera mounts further forward?

Edited by jrg19, 19 February 2013 - 18:53.


#1455 Nigol

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:53

On the nose?


I think so. Haven't bothered to look for other pics though.

#1456 Guizotia

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:54

Reflection I think.


I dont think its reflection. Its in every angle of photo in the same place (lines along the top edges and onto the nose), and in photos of last years car nothing in that area.

#1457 MaxisOne

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:55

Is it?

Seems like everyone is lunching their tyres at the mo. I cannot see a particular "spike" with Merc.


That's a different way to look at the issue.

However.. considering all the other teams actually managed to solve the deg problems over the season last year. We on the other hand made it worse. (when we introduced the coanda last year) to the point that we had to take it off in Brazil.

Everyone may have the problem now... but what I want to see is them fixing it completely as quickly or before the rest of the top teams. At that point it could be said that they are keeping up with their problem solving and development. Right now in my opinion they are pretty much just where they were (or maybe a little better) than last year.

Still early days .. so i'm taking a wait and see approach.

#1458 cartaker182

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:55

Not really.

2012 Barcelona day one testing times:

1 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull 1:23.265

2 Nico Hulkenberg Force India-Mercedes 1:23.440

3 Lewis Hamilton McLaren 1:23.590

4 Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso 1:23.618

5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1:24.100

6 Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1:24.150

7 Sergio Perez Sauber 1:24.219

8 Bruno Senna Williams 1:25.755

9 Romain Grosjean Lotus 1:26.809

10 Heikki Kovalainen Caterham 1:27.537

11 Charles Pic Marussia 1:29.248

Was it last test then ? I only dimmly recall.

#1459 oligc94

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:56

and the extra 6 tenths LH will bring to the table :)


Make that 1.1 seconds :smoking:

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#1460 oligc94

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:58

Are you for real? The car was pure dogsh*t, LH would have cracked like a madman had he had to deal with the same issues as Schumacher last season.


Agree, the car was awful, but one of the most impressive things about LH last season was the fact that he kept pretty cool even when McLaren were making error after error. I don't necessarily think that Schumacher had it that much worse than Lewis, and it certainly hurts a lot more to retire from the lead than from 8th...

#1461 cartaker182

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 19:02

Agree, the car was awful, but one of the most impressive things about LH last season was the fact that he kept pretty cool even when McLaren were making error after error. I don't necessarily think that Schumacher had it that much worse than Lewis, and it certainly hurts a lot more to retire from the lead than from 8th...

Yeah but MS probably knew he couldnt win, Hamilton just had to wait!

#1462 OoxLox

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 19:03

Well, it's looking like it's not a poor start at least. I still can't see the car competing with the top three, but it's looking hopeful that it could be sniping for the odd podium. A consistent and reliable year doing that and coming a solid 4th is as good as I dare hope given the last couple of seasons this team's had. If it's all mixed up again for the flyaways due to the new tyres then you never know, one of the drivers could get a shock win like last season. Just so long as they show they are back in the groove that a top team needs to be in by quickly getting to grips with the car and the tyres and going down a decent development path for the rest of the season. Something to show for all those top techies and a great driver line up!

#1463 CHIUNDA

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 19:05

Hope the pit stop crew will have caught up with their Ferrari counterparts by Australia and Ross Brawn would have re discovered his strategy genius otherwise all the speed and reliability in the world will be for naught - just ask McLaren.

#1464 FSLIV

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 19:20

Are you for real? The car was pure dogsh*t, LH would have cracked like a madman had he had to deal with the same issues as Schumacher last season.


He didn't crack like a madman in 2009 when the MP4/24 was dog----

#1465 Guizotia

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 19:27

Well, it's looking like it's not a poor start at least. I still can't see the car competing with the top three, but it's looking hopeful that it could be sniping for the odd podium. A consistent and reliable year doing that and coming a solid 4th is as good as I dare hope given the last couple of seasons this team's had. If it's all mixed up again for the flyaways due to the new tyres then you never know, one of the drivers could get a shock win like last season. Just so long as they show they are back in the groove that a top team needs to be in by quickly getting to grips with the car and the tyres and going down a decent development path for the rest of the season. Something to show for all those top techies and a great driver line up!


I will be happy with that. Anything else a bonus.

#1466 MaxisOne

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 19:49

I will be happy with that. Anything else a bonus.


Yep ... reasonable expectation :up:

#1467 Seanspeed

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 20:06

Agree, the car was awful, but one of the most impressive things about LH last season was the fact that he kept pretty cool even when McLaren were making error after error.

Not really. I remember him being noticeably upset a few times. There was also that matter of him leaving the team, too.....

I'm sure he'll try and keep his cool as much as possible being new to the team and all, but I'm not entirely sure how long that will last if Mercedes dont sort themselves out.

#1468 jrg19

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 20:19

Posted Image

Posted Image

Looking good from above.

#1469 study

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 20:21

Interesting screwed down inlet on on the front wing

#1470 windtravels

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 20:22

Interesting screwed down inlet on on the front wing


could be for sensors during testing?

#1471 F.M.

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 20:37

Interesting screwed down inlet on on the front wing



could be for sensors during testing?

More likely just for ballast placement

I find the amount of access panels in the rear wing more interesting :p

Seems like they are having some problems with burning the floor? (other materials used)

Edited by F.M., 19 February 2013 - 20:39.


#1472 Markn93

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 20:37

First pic looks very Mp4-27ish.

#1473 F.M.

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 20:40

Agree, the car was awful, but one of the most impressive things about LH last season was the fact that he kept pretty cool even when McLaren were making error after error. I don't necessarily think that Schumacher had it that much worse than Lewis, and it certainly hurts a lot more to retire from the lead than from 8th...

I remember quite a few twitter scandals from Hamilton losing his cool last year.... :wave:

#1474 BigCHrome

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 20:42

They have added the scoopless front brake ducts.

Also looks like they took off the DRD at some point during the day. I hope it doesn't come back.

#1475 study

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 20:46

. I hope it doesn't come back.


Why? do you think its a blind alley?

#1476 1Devil1

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 20:57

"It feels a lot stronger. It's a pleasure to drive because it's a lot faster than last year."

A typical Rosberg, I am sure, he said the same last year around the same time. Add the 1,1 sec of Hamilton and Mercedes will be driving home the championship. / sarcasm

But I liked that Lewis seems to be more realistic much like Schumacher he knows there is a long way down the road for Mercedes...

#1477 BigCHrome

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 21:14

Why? do you think its a blind alley?


Yes, I think it's a gimmick that has cost them too much resources for a very questionable gain.

#1478 MP422

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 21:24

Yes, I think it's a gimmick that has cost them too much resources for a very questionable gain.


Yea i agree, It looks to be kinda one of those things that maybe if you have the best pace you would look at it, trying to play catch up i dunno if they should focus on that. I dunno i could be wrong and they may look at it as a easy way to gain performance compared to other areas of development. It's hard to understand what it's benefit vs development and time etc...

I'm not a engineer or anything involved with aero so.... lol

#1479 apoka

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 21:25

I know what you mean but I don't agree. I know MS was incredibly unlucky but he was making too many errors as well. Nico isn't up there with SV/FA and that does make a difference, because the team was basically racing for 4th unless they could produce a positive car advantage against RB. Ferrari and Mac. No chance. They were in the second rank of teams for the season.

So I think the whole mindset will be more positive now. If they're within a tenth on car performance they can win. Tiny differences will matter more. For just one little thing Ross mentioned Lewis and stickers - I bet Lewis was saying "Stickers? With edges? Grammes? Are you frickin kidding?" :lol:

If you followed Merc last year closely, then "a tenth" was certainly not the problem in the second half 2012. I think all drivers would have struggled a lot with that car. Drivers can make a difference in similar cars, but if you are 1-2 seconds off the pace, nothing helps. (Btw. we don't even know whether Hamilton is faster than Rosberg.)


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#1480 Hairy

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 21:46

If you followed Merc last year closely, then "a tenth" was certainly not the problem in the second half 2012. I think all drivers would have struggled a lot with that car. Drivers can make a difference in similar cars, but if you are 1-2 seconds off the pace, nothing helps. (Btw. we don't even know whether Hamilton is faster than Rosberg.)


I think we do know.


#1481 OO7

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 21:50

(Btw. we don't even know whether Hamilton is faster than Rosberg.)

:up:

#1482 chumma

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 21:51

Sour? Oh come on now, I'm just trying to increase the post count to better lift the team's spirits! We all know how much they rely on bulletin board post counts.

You sir, do NOT need to elevate your post count, 10 and a half thousand posts within 5 years? that is nuts.

#1483 Markn93

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 21:54

Did anyone note that on the fastest lap the autosport commentary said Nico was purple in the middle sector, a good indicator of downforce levels.

#1484 BoschKurve

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 21:59

Did anyone note that on the fastest lap the autosport commentary said Nico was purple in the middle sector, a good indicator of downforce levels.


Except this is testing, and no one actually knows the circumstances regarding "best" times.

I wouldn't put much stock into any of the times. They mean absolutely nothing.

#1485 Markn93

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 22:01

Except this is testing, and no one actually knows the circumstances regarding "best" times.

I wouldn't put much stock into any of the times. They mean absolutely nothing.

It means the car isn't a dog and in the ballpark.

#1486 MercPower

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 22:02

would be Interested to hear about tyre deg from the drivers

Edited by MercPower, 19 February 2013 - 22:05.


#1487 MercPower

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 22:03

I think you could say this years car is a step forward, but it couldn't get any worse than the second half of last season.

I really think Mercedes will be competitive this season, i just hope they can keep up with development and take the right path this time.

Good luck to them

Edited by MercPower, 19 February 2013 - 22:04.


#1488 undersquare

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 22:12

If you followed Merc last year closely, then "a tenth" was certainly not the problem in the second half 2012. I think all drivers would have struggled a lot with that car. Drivers can make a difference in similar cars, but if you are 1-2 seconds off the pace, nothing helps. (Btw. we don't even know whether Hamilton is faster than Rosberg.)

Of course,that's why I said IF they're within a tenth. In 2013, not 2012. Everything depends on the team being a better team.

We don't know whether LH > NR in the sense that that Merc are gambling with all that money they're paying Hamilton. For that matter we don't know whether Rosberg is even as fast as Button.

#1489 dans79

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 22:14

would be Interested to hear about tyre deg from the drivers



The drives complained about it.
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105629

Rosberg

There is a lot of degradation. It's massive for everybody


Vettel

We saw today the tyres were going off pretty quickly, they didn't last a few laps


Alonso

It's maybe not the best option to test in the winter when you have a tyre that does one lap



#1490 Markn93

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 22:18

Quote from Nico, provides slightly more detail, translated from Amus, "This is a very different car a much better platform than last year I can turn effortlessly attack fast laps and it's fun to drive this car...."

Lulu on twitter, Lewis Hamilton ‏@LewisHamilton
Barcelona day 1: nico & the guys did a great job today despite some problems. Need to get more laps in tomorrow if we can. Keep pushing!!!

Edited by Markn93, 19 February 2013 - 22:29.


#1491 Masenco

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 23:00

Quote from Nico, provides slightly more detail, translated from Amus, "This is a very different car a much better platform than last year I can turn effortlessly attack fast laps and it's fun to drive this car...."

Lulu on twitter, Lewis Hamilton ‏@LewisHamilton
Barcelona day 1: nico & the guys did a great job today despite some problems. Need to get more laps in tomorrow if we can. Keep pushing!!!


Sounds great!


#1492 Owen

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 23:07

Quote from Nico, provides slightly more detail, translated from Amus, "This is a very different car a much better platform than last year I can turn effortlessly attack fast laps and it's fun to drive this car...."

Lulu on twitter, Lewis Hamilton ‏@LewisHamilton
Barcelona day 1: nico & the guys did a great job today despite some problems. Need to get more laps in tomorrow if we can. Keep pushing!!!

He said the car is one second faster than last year on Sky.

#1493 study

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 23:18

He said the car is one second faster than last year on Sky.



is that enough

#1494 Masenco

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 23:18

He said the car is one second faster than last year on Sky.


I read a quote from toto where he was saying merc are on target to be 2 seconds faster than the end of last year

#1495 jrg19

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 23:22

I took it that they were a second faster than last time they were at Barcelona?

#1496 jav

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 00:37

This team has a history of being at it's best early. We'll see if they can build on that as fast as other teams usually do in season. I'll be interested to see if Hamilton can better Nico's best... he didn't last test despite an improving track.

BTW- I'm rapidly gaining respect for Alonso- I think his comments are spot on about Pirelli... something Schumacher complained about last year. There's a difference between degradation and life. I don't understand and certainly don't agree with a tire design with such variable grip levels. Especially during testing- your dealing with so many variables- why the heck NOT make a tire that is a constant at least for a set number of laps??? This crap with the tire offering diminishing grip levels after just one lap sucks! It turns races into tire management contests and takes away from what the sport should be... race cars.

#1497 BigCHrome

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 01:57

This team has a history of being at it's best early. We'll see if they can build on that as fast as other teams usually do in season. I'll be interested to see if Hamilton can better Nico's best... he didn't last test despite an improving track.


That's really not true at all.
2010 - they started decently strong, right behind the top 3 teams. They had to cut staff because of the RRA - something the top teams gave the middle finger to, and at the end of the year they were still around that position "best of the rest" team that usually finished right behind RBR/McLaren/Ferrari.
2011 - Car was quite woeful from the very beginning, they never challenged the top teams. However, still best of the rest, almost always finishing right behind the top 3 teams.
2012 - This was the only year where they looked strong at the beginning, and they got completely lost in development and dealing with the tires. DDRS was also a huge mistake that cost them since they couldn't alter the wing profiles for flexing purposes and etc.

#1498 jav

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:47

That's really not true at all.
2010 - they started decently strong, right behind the top 3 teams. They had to cut staff because of the RRA - something the top teams gave the middle finger to, and at the end of the year they were still around that position "best of the rest" team that usually finished right behind RBR/McLaren/Ferrari.
2011 - Car was quite woeful from the very beginning, they never challenged the top teams. However, still best of the rest, almost always finishing right behind the top 3 teams.
2012 - This was the only year where they looked strong at the beginning, and they got completely lost in development and dealing with the tires. DDRS was also a huge mistake that cost them since they couldn't alter the wing profiles for flexing purposes and etc.



Interesting take... not what I remember but perhaps I missed something. Exactly what key staff was cut in 2010? Yes- when Merc acquired the 2009 Brawn GP team, they were in compliance with the 2010 RRA but I don't recall any critical staff being cut in 2010.

As to them being at their best early... I think thats pretty well accepted.

Even back in 2009- they started strong (ddd) then faded relative to peers. They held onto the championship but by seasons end, it's pretty widely held they were no longer the strongest car.

2010 - similar regression. Car started reasonably promising and while they developed it (til about mid season), they lost ground relative to the top 3. They gave up on W01 mid season due to fundamental design flaws and started W02 earlier than any other team. Ironically- they started to do better AFTER they stopped development.

W02 was hailed early on as an improvement to W01... tested reasonably well and was touted by the team as a stronger "foundation" than W01. Not so much. As the season progressed, they were further back (time delta) than they were earlier on. They finished further back (points wise) to 3rd place than W01 did.

W03- again tested well, showed promise, then faded. Finished the season further back from 3rd place than W02 AND W01 did.

Not sure what part is not true at all.

#1499 BigCHrome

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:47

They had no money for development in 2009. I don't know why you're mentioning testing, as everyone has said a million times - it never shows the true standings. In 2010 they had some podiums in the beginning of the season due to rain, not because the car was fast. They struggled with getting the EBD to work - just like all other Mercedes engined teams. I don't really see the evidence that the time delta increased by any significant amount throughout 2011, it all depended on the track. It is true that their point total has decreased each year, though that doesn't show weak development throughout the season.

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#1500 Timstr11

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:19

I took it that they were a second faster than last time they were at Barcelona?

He said ''more than a second''.
And Barcelona 2012 he finished ahead of the 2 McLarens and one place behind Vettel. At that time the car was not that far off the pace.