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Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04


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#1551 BigCHrome

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 19:36

It's too early to get the hopes up. Aldo Costa cars are known to do well in testing followed by flopping when it counts. (F150)

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#1552 windtravels

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 19:43

It's too early to get the hopes up. Aldo Costa cars are known to do well in testing followed by flopping when it counts. (F150)


I was actually wondering about this today - does anyone have a link / info about the cars Costa has had a big hand in? I notice Bryne credited him with the 2005 ferrari which wasn't the best car, and the f150 apparently too...

#1553 Timstr11

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 19:45

It's too early to get the hopes up. Aldo Costa cars are known to do well in testing followed by flopping when it counts. (F150)

We know by now that Ferrari's windtunnel was the big culprit.

#1554 senna da silva

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 19:55

Not an attempt at derailing the thread:

Here's a summary of the laptimes today... hope this answers your questions, PretentiousBread.

http://f1fullthrottl...elo-2013-dia-2/


Great info. Cheers. :up:

#1555 SR388

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 19:56

I was actually wondering about this today - does anyone have a link / info about the cars Costa has had a big hand in? I notice Bryne credited him with the 2005 ferrari which wasn't the best car, and the f150 apparently too...


2005 car also had crappy Bridgestones that only worked at USGP.

#1556 BernieEc

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 19:57

I was actually wondering about this today - does anyone have a link / info about the cars Costa has had a big hand in? I notice Bryne credited him with the 2005 ferrari which wasn't the best car, and the f150 apparently too...



F2007 & F2008

#1557 SR388

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 20:04

F2007 & F2008



Them's were pretty good cars. Allowed Kimi to luck into a championship and did great the next year.

#1558 Seanspeed

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 20:09

It's too early to get the hopes up. Aldo Costa cars are known to do well in testing followed by flopping when it counts. (F150)

Other teams just hid their pace better. Its not that it suddenly 'flopped' when it came time to race.

#1559 senna da silva

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 20:10

F2007 & F2008


One could argue that he had a pretty big hand in designing the MP4-22 and 23! :rotfl:

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#1560 SR388

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 20:11

Other teams just hid their pace better. Its not that it suddenly 'flopped' when it came time to race.


Also, it got better as the year went along. Finished 3rd in the WCC.

Let's hope merc has the ability to drag a car up.

#1561 MortenF1

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 20:43

Hmm! Hamilton has a nine-lap run where the average laptime is 1.28.76, and the fastest and slowest laptime is a 1.28.04 and a 1.29.11. That's impressive when we've seen all sorts of horror examples of degradation.

#1562 chumma

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 20:49

Hmm! Hamilton has a nine-lap run where the average laptime is 1.28.76, and the fastest and slowest laptime is a 1.28.04 and a 1.29.11. That's impressive when we've seen all sorts of horror examples of degradation.

I wonder if that was due to having light fuel and driving like a nun to save the tyres or see how extreme you'd need to drive to preserve the tyres.

#1563 MortenF1

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 20:55

Arrgh! You ruined it! :lol:

...always a possibility of course, but really? Laptimes in the 28's and 29's are what you'd expect from a tanked-up, front-running car.



#1564 maverick69

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 20:56

I'm feeling rather optimistic TBH.

Not only has the car got a bit of pace....... but also the tyres are made of such a soft blend of cheese that everyone is screwed after one lap.

Hammer FTW :smoking:

#1565 windtravels

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 21:07

Thanks for the replies :up:

#1566 BigCHrome

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 21:09

Aldo Costa had a hand in all Ferraris however he became top dog from 2005 on to 2011. So, overall he had mostly fast cars, the only time he had a slower car than McLaren was 2005 and 2011.

#1567 alframsey

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 21:30

I'm feeling optimistic about the Merc, I really am. A solid fourth with consistent pace would be fantastic imo, anything more would be a massive bonus. I'm just excited to see Lewis going hell for leather all season, I also think Nico will flourish with the challenge of Hamilton. Bring on 2013!

#1568 Seanspeed

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 21:35

Arrgh! You ruined it! :lol:

...always a possibility of course, but really? Laptimes in the 28's and 29's are what you'd expect from a tanked-up, front-running car.

The beginnings of the stints dont indicate a topped up car.

People need to realize that they aren't always trying to do 'race stints'. They are testing.

#1569 PretentiousBread

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 21:37

I'm feeling optimistic about the Merc, I really am. A solid fourth with consistent pace would be fantastic imo, anything more would be a massive bonus. I'm just excited to see Lewis going hell for leather all season, I also think Nico will flourish with the challenge of Hamilton. Bring on 2013!


Hell for leather driving around to a delta, yeah.

#1570 Markn93

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 21:51

- Lulu from today. Car looks pretty planted.

#1571 SR388

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 22:06

- Lulu from today. Car looks pretty planted.



Looks like a WINNER to me.

Not trying to get too hyped though.

I think Merc need Glorious Green shirts to counter Maccas "Rocket Red(Orange)" shirts.

Could surprise a lot of old has-beens in F1 who have been running their mouths.

#1572 alframsey

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 22:26

Looks like a WINNER to me.

Not trying to get too hyped though.

I think Merc need Glorious Green shirts to counter Maccas "Rocket Red(Orange)" shirts.

Could surprise a lot of old has-beens in F1 who have been running their mouths.

I think we're getting ahead of ourselves now. While I love your enthusiasm I think commissioning a victory shirt is a step too far :p For me the McLaren is the car to beat this year, I fully expect them to be in contention for both titles only to throw it away at the last minute. If Merc we just to compete for regular podium places it would be a good season for them!

#1573 F1ultimate

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 23:12

The team only has one goal for this season.


And that is so be more successful than last year, so even two victories will be a triumph and enough to keep shareholders/sponsors happy enough to be motivated about 2014. Everything beyond that is purely a bonus. Merc won't win the development race. Red Bull and Mclaren had excellent cars towards the end of last year and will only get better. Two ways Merc can be massively successful this season is by:

1. Winning the reliability race. Kimi did not have the fastest car last year but certainly the most reliable one which put him in a good standing when things went wrong for everyone else, and collected enough podiums and points to almost be in the running for WDC towards the end of last year.

2. Mastering the Pirellis. In 2011 Ferrari had devastatingly poor performance on the harder tires but in 2012, the ex-Bridgestone director paid dividend. Alonso had remarkable consistent tire performance whether he was driving a lonely race or blitzing through the field. You never heard him complain about tire performance during any of last years races.



#1574 MP422

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 23:24

Probably both. :wave:

It really is getting very difficult not to be a little optimistic. I've already thought of a brilliant retort to those spewing the 'three kings/too many chiefs/cooks' kak. :p But now I'm getting waaaay ahead of myself.


Naa that's just nonsense about too many chiefs/cooks/kings. They are developing the w04 and designing the w05 this season. There is plenty of work to go around. I see this restructuring as a good thing. i'm pretty optimistic. Many are praying this car ends up a dog right now, i bet. I think it looks good i'm optimistic. It's all about development though redbull and mclaren are very strong in that regard.

#1575 teejay

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:22

I just hope we are in the ball park, and that we can keep up development.

Resources and talent is there - hopefully the processes and thinkers are too.

#1576 KiloWatt

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:45

Naa that's just nonsense about too many chiefs/cooks/kings.


Well sure, you know it and I know it, but try getting it into some of the hard heads that pass through here. Lotus fans seem especially difficult to convince, for some reason.

#1577 black magic

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:06

on that clip didnt look like lewis was trying to hustle the car at all with some short shifting.

didnt look like attack mode to me, hence proabbly why it looked so stable.

#1578 BigCHrome

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:14

http://www.f1fanatic.../02/MG_9523.jpg

Rear of the car looks nice and reasonably tidy here.

#1579 meddo

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:30

Is it me, optical illusion, or the sidepods look waay different? And also front wing.

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#1580 Maustinsj

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:36

Is it me, optical illusion, or the sidepods look waay different? And also front wing.


I thought that.

#1581 rhukkas

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:38

- Lulu from today. Car looks pretty planted.


It looks OK, nothing special. Bit of understeer.

#1582 SophieB

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:52

I reckon things with the car could be a hell of a lot worse than they are at this stage so I'm feeling cautiously optimistic.

Also, from Autosport Live: "Lewis Hamilton isn't driving today, so he's walking dog Roscoe in paddock."
Posted Image

Roscoe's lap times: currently unknown.

#1583 F1ultimate

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:43

So Bernie gave the dog a Paddock pass then. After all, he cannot be any more hazardous than Grosjean.

Edited by F1ultimate, 21 February 2013 - 10:43.


#1584 Alx09

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:47

Having followed testing, I have to say the Barcelona-updated Merc made me a bit hopeful for the season. Times looked surprisingly good yesterday.

Edited by Alx09, 21 February 2013 - 10:48.


#1585 Timstr11

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:31

http://www.f1fanatic.../02/MG_9523.jpg

Rear of the car looks nice and reasonably tidy here.

Nothing has changed. Just less test sensor wirings and tapings. Those were causing an untidy look.

#1586 MortenF1

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 15:16

The beginnings of the stints dont indicate a topped up car.

People need to realize that they aren't always trying to do 'race stints'. They are testing.


I am of course, hugely grateful to have you around, to lecture us all on how this works. (Total wow-moment there when you brought it to my attention that they are testing.)

But, teams are very systematic in their approach to testing, and often stint after stint are done on the same fuel load, and the running is of course meant to be preparation for what's coming. It has to be relevant, the running they are doing. They don't fcuk around short shifting on 14' rpm. They are trying to learn about the car and tires obviously.


#1587 Seanspeed

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 15:25

I am of course, hugely grateful to have you around, to lecture us all on how this works. (Total wow-moment there when you brought it to my attention that they are testing.)

But, teams are very systematic in their approach to testing, and often stint after stint are done on the same fuel load, and the running is of course meant to be preparation for what's coming. It has to be relevant, the running they are doing. They don't fcuk around short shifting on 14' rpm. They are trying to learn about the car and tires obviously.

I dont get your point. If you think that every run a team does in testing is a race-focused run, then I'm afraid you do need to be reminded about what testing is about.

#1588 SR388

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 15:47

I reckon things with the car could be a hell of a lot worse than they are at this stage so I'm feeling cautiously optimistic.

Also, from Autosport Live: "Lewis Hamilton isn't driving today, so he's walking dog Roscoe in paddock."
Posted Image

Roscoe's lap times: currently unknown.


Not sure if that is safe for the dog, I know their ears can be mighty sensitive.


Hope we get some good mileage in today!

#1589 sheepgobba

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 15:51

I can imagine the response from Ferrari, if Aldo Costa's car turns out to be faster.

Edited by sheepgobba, 21 February 2013 - 15:53.


#1590 andrewf1

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 16:37

Not sure if that is safe for the dog, I know their ears can be mighty sensitive.


Hope we get some good mileage in today!


He's walking the dog in the paddock, not the pits, there are no F1 cars there.

#1591 Markn93

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 16:40

I can imagine the response from Ferrari, if Aldo Costa's car turns out to be faster.

Just the notion that it's a possibility after a couple of rounds of testing should be very positive.

#1592 bonjon1979a

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 17:07

I dont get your point. If you think that every run a team does in testing is a race-focused run, then I'm afraid you do need to be reminded about what testing is about.


Lucky we've got you on hand to remind us Sean!

#1593 SunnyENTP

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 17:08

I can imagine the response from Ferrari, if Aldo Costa's car turns out to be faster.


No different from what Mclaren would say about Ferrari if they turn out with the best car. The point is i doubt they would care.

#1594 SirT

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 17:20

Rosberg on today:

"Definitely progress from last year and for sure we are going to be closer to the top guys," he said. "That's important because it's going in the right direction. The team has done a really good job over the winter and it really looks like all their hard work and effort has been worthwhile. It's a pleasure to drive at the moment because the balance is quite good and there are a lot of positives."

"Of course we need to improve reliability because we are having a few issues, but it's nothing major," he added. "What's also looking good is our development rate at the moment. That was our weakness last year and that's what we really have to improve and that's going in the right direction too. There all these factors which are going well at the moment but are not quite there yet."

#1595 Markn93

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 17:34

Can't believe they haven't used soft tyres yet, (for proper running I mean, I have no idea if they've used them for installation laps).

#1596 SR388

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 17:38

Can't believe they haven't used soft tyres yet, (for proper running I mean, I have no idea if they've used them for installation laps).


They want to keep us speculating. Kind of bad form to put on the softs and run a half second faster than the field.

:drunk:  ;)

#1597 TomNokoe

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 17:38

Can't believe they haven't used soft tyres yet, (for proper running I mean, I have no idea if they've used them for installation laps).

They used hards all day wednesday, mediums all day today, softs tomorrow? Although the forecast is for rain? I'm sure they know what they're doing.

#1598 SunnyENTP

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 17:44

Can't believe they haven't used soft tyres yet, (for proper running I mean, I have no idea if they've used them for installation laps).


I think to really understand the car and tyres u need milage and these soft cheese tyres wont help



#1599 Szoelloe

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 17:54

Can't believe they haven't used soft tyres yet, (for proper running I mean, I have no idea if they've used them for installation laps).


• The morning programme focused on data gathering and set-up adjustments
• This afternoon, Nico concentrated on longer runs with the hard and medium tyres
• Nico ran soft, medium and hard compound tyres during the day's programme
• His fastest lap of 1:22.611 was completed on the medium tyre on lap one of a seven-lap run


"We didn't have a perfect morning and it was tough out there with the low temperatures. They were causing a lot of tyre graining, which made it difficult to do much useful testing. It was a few degrees warmer after the break and that gave a completely different picture.
In general, I'm pleased with what we've achieved this week - I did a lot of mileage and the team has done a good job over the winter. I feel more comfortable in the car and the balance is quite good, but we still need to work in a number of areas. That's why I'm looking forward to testing next week and to see what progress we can make."


http://www.mercedes-...-test-day-three

They still look to be in reasonable shape. The car looks good, they work methodically in a way I haven't seen them so far. That in itself should be a good sign. They are constantly developing a car, no day passes without seeing something added and evaluated. That is another good sign. They seem to be ok with the tyres, some setup changes they made seem to pay off, today we have seen reasonable consistency, on par with any team, at least. Decent speed seems to be there too. They had two steady days, with no obvious problems. personally, I couldn't ask for more, honestly. This is a different team to last season, so far. If they are able to mix it with the front-runners, I will be fascinated. Let's see how it goes.

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#1600 akshay380

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 17:57

Rosberg on today:

"Definitely progress from last year and for sure we are going to be closer to the top guys," he said. "That's important because it's going in the right direction. The team has done a really good job over the winter and it really looks like all their hard work and effort has been worthwhile. It's a pleasure to drive at the moment because the balance is quite good and there are a lot of positives."

"Of course we need to improve reliability because we are having a few issues, but it's nothing major," he added. "What's also looking good is our development rate at the moment. That was our weakness last year and that's what we really have to improve and that's going in the right direction too. There all these factors which are going well at the moment but are not quite there yet."

:up: :up: